Nov. 26, 2024

Theology on the Internet

Theology on the Internet

I review a sermon that criticizes internet theologians

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I review a sermon that criticizes internet theologians

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. What's the first

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thing that comes to your mind when you hear Internet theologians.

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What is the first thing that comes to your mind

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when you hear someone say Internet theologians, Internet theologians. What

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if they stress it Internet theologians, or if they say

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Internet theologians, they don't really stress it, but it's the

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same idea, Internet theologians, Internet theologians. Do you have a

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positive reaction or a negative What if you hear Christian

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podcaster ooh did I give you a is it good

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or bad impression? What if a Christian blogger good reaction

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or negative reaction? Even if you hear the word forget

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internet or internet or Christian podcast forget it any What

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if we just use the term theologians good impression or

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negative impression? Now, from my experience, when you hear pastors

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for pastors of churches talk, they will speak typically very

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negative of those Internet theologians, Internet theologians, Christian podcasters, Christian bloggers,

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and sometimes they will even criticize those theologians those and

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they will speak very negatively of all of them. Internet theologians,

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Internet theologians, Christian podcasters, Christian bloggers, and theologians in general.

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They seem in many cases to have a very negative attitude,

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a very negative perspective, a very negative feeling. I'm not

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saying everyone, I'm saying that that's my experience that that

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I feel that it happens frequently. Well, obviously, because I

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have had that experience, I've heard it, I've been sitting

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in buildings where those kinds of things are said. Because

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that has been my experience, then you can probably guess

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what my reaction was when I saw a new sermon

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being uploaded to the sermon's two point oh app entitled

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Internet Theologians Internet Theologians. My immediate response was, oh boy,

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here we go. I bet you it's an older pastor.

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That was my first assumption. I bet you he's going

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to be negative about those Internet theologians. So I had

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a lot of presuppositions. Right, I'm just gonna be honest

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with you. I just immediately assumed it's going to be bad,

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it's going to be negative. I have clear, strong presuppositions

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about it. But you know what we're going to do.

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I'm not just gonna go Oh well, I bet you

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that is negative. I bet you he's going to criticize

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those so called Internet theologians. I'm not gonna bother. No,

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we are going to listen to it and find out

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if my presuppositions were right or if my presuppositions were wrong.

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And you know what, that's what we should always do,

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no matter what your presuppositions may be. We always have

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to listen and let someone speak for themselves. So that's

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what we're going to do, and we'll do that well

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right after I guess I say this, Good afternoon everyone.

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It is Tuesday, November the twenty sixth, twenty twenty four,

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it is currently three twenty four pm Central time, and

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I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central Studio

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located right here in Abilene, Texas. Now, just that introduction, right,

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just that introduction, and it kind of tells you something. Right, Well,

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he's gonna he may be a little sensitive to this.

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He may he may have some strong feelings. I mean,

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he's a podcaster with a theology podcast, so he's one

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of those Christian podcasters. He's one of those so called

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Internet theologians. So obviously he may be very defensive. He

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may be very sensitive if someone even insinuates something negative,

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and you're right, look, let's just full transparency. I could

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be a little sensitive here, and I have strong presuppositions

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and strong just assumptions. If someone starts talking about internet theologians,

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I just immediately, well, this is getting ready to go negative.

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They're gonna be criticizing it. And I do think that

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it's somewhat generational. I do think. I think if it's

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older pastors, they're just like, what's the internet stuff and

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podcasting and blogging?

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What's all?

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Back in my day, we rode, we rode to church

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on a horse, three miles uphill and the snow, and

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we liked it. And that's the way it should be.

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We should just cut off the internet, and we should

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just not have even have electricity. We shouldn't even have

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a microphone. Okay, maybe that's a little hyperbole, but I

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think it will be somewhat generational. I could be very wrong, right,

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I could start this. It could be a person in

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their twenties. Who knows, But we're going to listen to

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this and we're going to find out. Now this is

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all a part of our effort to bring this last

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month really of our sermons two point oh app Sermon

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Challenge of twenty twenty four to some kind of a

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dramatic conclusion. And what we're going to do is, I'm

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just going to try to keep watching what's going on

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on the sermon's two point oh app more and more,

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try to review, try to talk about it, and try

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to just see what we can do in the last month. Right,

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maybe we can really really accomplish something. Now, Sometimes when

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we listen to these sermons, let's just be very honest.

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Sometimes we have found that it doesn't matter the title,

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doesn't even matter the scripture. Sometimes that has nothing to

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do with what we think it's going to be about.

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It'll be a sermon entitled First John chapter one, verse three,

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and after forty five minutes listening to the sermon, they

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never even mentioned First John chapter one, verse three. So

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there's always a danger in going and blind. But you

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also know I love sometimes going and blind because we

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don't know what's going to happen. So this is how

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we're going to approach this sermon. I am going to

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be honest with you. I have a presupposition. A sermon

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entitled Internet Theologians, Internet Theologians it's going to be negative.

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I just hear it being said in a negative way, right,

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I see the term Internet theologians. I hear it in

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my mind, those Internet theologians. Maybe I hear it with

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a Southern accent. I hear it being derogatory. That I'm

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just going in. That's my presupposition. My assumption is this

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is going to be negative. Now here's the danger. Because

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I have that presupposition. Because I have that assumption, I

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may not be able to hear in a fair way.

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So I'm going to try to be very fair. If

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you believe I'm not being fair, if you believe I'm

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not being accurate, then by all means call me out.

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But I think i'm a I'm gonna do my best.

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I'm at least going and acknowledging it. Right, I'm already

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going to be a little bit defensive. I'm already gonna

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be like oh oh oh, because I mean, I'm the

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host of a podcast called Theology Central, which is of

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course on the internet. All right, so you can tell

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why I could be. But I've got to not allow

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my presupposition, my assumptions, even my possible defensiveness to so

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blind me to so make me deaf that I cannot

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hear criticism in a fair and accurate way. That's what

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I need to do. I have to be able to

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hear this. Now. I'm a little bit perplexed because this

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is called Internet again. I want to say it, and

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I want to really emphasize it Internet theologians, and the

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text I believe is like First John, chapter four. I

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just just make sure we understand they didn't have any

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Internet back then, all right, But so I don't know. Well,

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it's put it this way. The title did what it's

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supposed to do. It got my attention and I clicked

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on it. A title should get your attention if you're

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putting your stuff on the Internet. You Oh, wait a minute.

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If this is a sermon criticizing Internet theologians and it's

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posted on the Internet, would not to make the person

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speaking an Internet something, an Internet Bible teacher, an Internet pastor,

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and Internet I mean, if you're going to credit it

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so already, that kind of seems a little odd. But

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we'll see which direction is going to go. But I'm acknowledging.

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I'm acknowledging, ladies and gentlemen, I have a presupposition. I

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have an assumption, and I have a possible in invested

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interest into being a little bit defensive. I got to

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set that all aside, to try to let the man speak,

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hear him clearly, and maybe say you, well, you're right,

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that's fair criticism. Now we will see and then you,

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obviously will then be able to judge if what I'm

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saying is fair and accurate. I mean, that's the way

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it works, right, Everybody judges everything. I mean, that's the

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way it works. So here we go. I don't know.

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I've been waiting for this all day. I saw that

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this sermon was being uploaded this morning, but they never

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the audio would never show up. I kept waiting and waiting.

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Finally the audio showed up. So here we go without

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any further delay. But I just wanted to spend that

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time being very open and honest with you. I'm aware,

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I'm aware of this. I'm aware of this. So my

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feelings are based not on this sermon, because I haven't

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heard the sermon. It's based on my experiences. So I've

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got a presupposition, I've got an assumption, I've got experiences,

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and I've kind of got a vested interest, which makes

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this then listening to this fairly, maybe somewhat difficult. You'll

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have to see how well I do.

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Here. We go.

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And so many folks that we've known one way or

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another through Day Spring, Bible College, Brother Mahoney and all folks,

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and through the trip to Israel, we got to know

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some of you, and just to know the caliber preachers

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that you have here in your ministry and what they mean,

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what they've stood for. And Brother Gilbert, I always have

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just really enjoyed listening to him, make a pointed when

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I come here to preach, being here for Sunday School,

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because I really enjoy listing to his message and always

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come up with outlines can steal and make people think

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we're my own. I did one already this morning, and

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so I'm grateful for that. But head, of course, doctor

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Arnold is just one of the great heroes of the

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Free Grace movement and known by many, and his influence many,

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and such a blessing, and we're so thankful for his

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ministry and the fruit of it, and your pastor then,

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what a sweet spirit, what a pastor's heart, what a

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joy to be around, and we're thankful for him and

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grateful for him and his friendship and for this invitation,

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appreciate it very much.

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First John, Chapter four.

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It's a kind of a different type of message, but

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it is a real issue challenge of the time. Yeah,

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and by Internet theologians. All of a sudden, we have

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information coming at us from every angle and in a

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format that people are used to listening to. We've come

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to a place where people almost don't believe it unless

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they saw it on the Internet. And there's some interesting

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stuff on the Internet. I am. I'm probably the least

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techie guy you know.

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All Right, here we go. I'm starting to hear a

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little bit of a tone, all right, starting to hear

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a little bit of a tone. And I can't I

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can't speak for his age. I don't know how he

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sounds like he's older. I'm starting to get I'm starting

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to get a little bit of a feeling. But see that,

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Am I being too overly sensitive? There's a high possibility.

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Am I being overly I mean come on, I mean

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I do a podcast called Theology Central, so you see,

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you see why I could be. So I gotta all right,

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slap myself. Stop stop stop stop stop, all right, they

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don't mean anything negative. This is gonna be they're gonna

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talk positive about all those of us who turn on

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microphones to talk theology on the internet. I bet you

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they're going to be happy about that, right, all right,

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I see that's sarcasm. Oh okay, come on, all right,

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come on, stop stop stop positive positive, positive, positive, no negativity.

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Don't be cynical, don't be jaded, Be be joyful, be

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you know, be positive. That is that work. Okay, let's

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see what.

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Happens and it.

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But it is amazing what's happened in my own life

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with other people taking my preaching and my teaching putting

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it on the internet.

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It's just been some amazing things.

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One group I did a three hour interview with on

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the King James Bible, and and they just informed me

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recently that that's been downloaded now a million times. I'm thinking,

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I've preached thirty countries, forty nine states NonStop for over

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fifty years, and more people have heard that interview than

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have heard me live.

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It's just amazing.

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Okay, well, this is a good thing. This is a

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good thing. He's talking about how positive it is to

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put your pilological discussions on the internet. So if he's

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going to talk about internet theologians. Then he would have

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to include himself there. Right, his information is on the Internet.

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It's had over a million downloads. That makes you an

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Internet theologian. Okay, over a million downloads would make you

231
00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:45.840
an Internet theologian. Now, so he's going to have to

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define what he means by Internet theologian because he's now

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placed himself very much in that camp. He's got content

234
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on the Internet that's had over a million downloads. Okay,

235
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you can't get much more Internet theologian than that, right,

236
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all right, So let's see. Now I'm kind of interested

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in which direction this is gonna maybe maybe, maybe this

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is going to be more positive. And I have been

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completely my presuppositions and my assumptions have been completely wrong.

240
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Let's find out.

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It's hard to comprehend all of it.

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And I was preaching in Australian and in Australian church,

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and I was preaching Philipino churches there, but happened to

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be in Australian church that morning and a guy came

245
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up to me, so, yes, we appreciate you so much,

246
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and he said, our church listens to you every Wednesday night.

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And I thought he was from Australia. He wasn't he

248
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is from the Nation of Cook's Island. I didn't know

249
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there was a nation of Cook's Island. I had to

250
00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:01.559
look it up. It's a small island in the specific.

251
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I mean, it's incredible what happens with all this and

252
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the influence of it all. And yet there's a lot

253
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of good, obviously that comes out of it. My ministry,

254
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I'm just the busiest I have ever been, and more

255
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.360
offers and opportunities I knew what to do with, and

256
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mostly because of people posting me on the internet various fashions.

257
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But man, there's a lot of trouble on the internet

258
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today too.

259
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All right, So there's good and there's bad. All right,

260
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I'm trying to follow here, right, isn't there good churches,

261
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bad churches? Good teaching, bad teaching? Hasn't that been the

262
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argument for two thousand years of church history? Now, of course,

263
00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:56.840
who gets to say who's good and who's bad? That's

264
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the never ending debate. You may say that person's good,

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and someone else may say that person is bad. And

266
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you may say you're good and they may say you're bad. Yeah,

267
00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:09.160
it just so, all right, So guess what, ladies and gentlemen,

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00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:15.039
on the internet, there's theology. There's some good and there's

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some bad, all right. I don't know of anyone who

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would ever say otherwise. Hey, you can go to a

271
00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:31.000
Christian bookstore. There's some good, there's some bad. You can

272
00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:34.079
turn on Christian radio, there's some good, there is bad.

273
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You can turn on Christian television. There's a lot of bad.

274
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And nope, okay, there's probably some good. There's some good

275
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and some bad. And it doesn't matter the medium preaching

276
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vocal like a local church preaching sermons and print Christian books,

277
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Christian commentaries, Christian bookstores, Christian television, Christian radio, or the

278
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internet or the internet. It mean that, and that's the

279
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:05.559
way it's always been. I mean, is there something I

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00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:07.319
don't know here, Let's see where this goes.

281
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I find myself doing an interview, YouTube or podcast or

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something of that nature about once a week, and it's

283
00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:22.559
been my policy. I just do interviews for anybody. I

284
00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:25.839
don't ask who they are, check anything. I do interviews.

285
00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:28.839
As long as I get the end of the interview

286
00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.839
to give the gospel. I'll go on with anybody. And

287
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:37.880
I've been on with some interesting people. And there is

288
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.440
a guy out in California, and I was been on

289
00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:46.519
his program three times and it's just an unusual person.

290
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And I'm always on because.

291
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:51.119
At the end I know it's my time to give

292
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:53.279
the gospel now, and just gives me the last few minutes.

293
00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:57.400
But he spends a lot of time talking about the

294
00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:04.799
Nephelim and there here on the earth today. And I've

295
00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:07.599
heard a lot of interesting things from him. And he

296
00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:13.079
talks about the green Nephilim and the gray Nephilim. They're

297
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:19.720
giants and supernatural spirits, and the green Nephilim, you understand,

298
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.960
are the good guys, and the gray Nephilim are very

299
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dangerous and they're responsible for all of the horrible things

300
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:31.759
that are going on in our world today. And they

301
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.559
using different politicians and figures and so forth. And he

302
00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:38.240
just goes on and on about this, and I just

303
00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:40.440
basically on the other end of the microphone, you know,

304
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:44.000
and listened for a while and he'll say, what do

305
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:46.119
you think about it? Well, I really don't know anything

306
00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:48.359
about that. And at the end I give the gospel

307
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:49.000
for five minutes.

308
00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:58.519
It's it's been amazing. Ah.

309
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.359
He got some of that in from something called the

310
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:04.759
Book of Inenich and a lot of people talking about

311
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:06.519
the Book of Innich, and it's getting a lot of influenced.

312
00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:08.440
It is a book that was taken out of the Bible.

313
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:16.480
The Book of Enoch that was taken out of the Bible.

314
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:27.160
All right, now, wait, wait a minute here, Okay, If

315
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:29.119
you don't know about the Book of Enoch, It's an

316
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:34.160
ancient Jewish work. It's traditionally ascribed to Enoch, the great

317
00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:37.200
grandfather of Noah. It is not part of the canonical

318
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.880
Hebrew Bible or most Christian Bibles, though it is considered

319
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:46.799
canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. The book is notable

320
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:54.720
for its detailed exploration of angelology, eschatology, and cosmology. So

321
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:56.759
what does he mean that the Book of Enoch taken

322
00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:58.960
out of the Bible. He's saying it was in the

323
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:05.519
Bible and then it was out of the Bible. I'm

324
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:09.359
a little bit I'm a little bit confused. If you

325
00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:12.279
don't know about the Book of EMBoK, it was likely composed,

326
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:16.440
most believe somewhere basically in stages. I think that's how

327
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.680
most people believe. It was put together, somewhere between like

328
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:25.799
the third century BC and the first century AD. Right now,

329
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:29.359
if you're looking at probably an academic work. They're going

330
00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:32.400
to refer to it as third century BCE before the

331
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:35.839
Common Era, and the first century CE Common era, I know,

332
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.839
BC before christ ad Audio Domini the Year of Our Lord. Okay,

333
00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:43.960
we can get into all of the dating situation. It

334
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:49.920
reflects themes of kind of a Jewish apocalyptic type worldview.

335
00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:54.920
It emphasizes judgment of the wicked, vindication of the righteous,

336
00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:59.039
and basically a lot of the idea of angels and

337
00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:03.200
their role in governance and divine governance. I think maybe

338
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:06.079
would be the right way to say so, all right.

339
00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:14.480
The Book of Enoch is quoted or referenced in several

340
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:18.839
ancient Jewish and Christian texts, according to many claims. Many

341
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.599
believe that if you look at Jude verses fourteen and fifteen,

342
00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:26.920
that that some say it's a direct quote from Enoch

343
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:32.240
one chapter one, verse nine. Early Church fathers, Totolian and

344
00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:38.519
Origin referenced the Book of Enoch, but it was excluded

345
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:43.240
from most Christian canons. So when he says it was

346
00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:47.359
removed from the Bible, like what which, I don't know

347
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:52.599
what he's referencing here. I think many would believe that

348
00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.599
the Book of Enoch probably was more influential on Christian

349
00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.480
theology than maybe some people would like to acknowledge, right,

350
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:05.279
especially some of our ideas about the fallen, fallen angels,

351
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.400
apocalyptic judgment. Some of that may actually be more influenced

352
00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:11.200
by the Book of Enoch, even though people don't have

353
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:13.160
it in their Bible and many Christians have never even

354
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:21.880
read it. Yeah, I think I think a lot of

355
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:26.160
people question its theology and its historical reliability. I think

356
00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:28.720
that's probably fair to say. So, what does he mean

357
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:30.519
it was taken out of the Bible like it was

358
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:32.519
in the Bible and feel like, hey, guys, we got

359
00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.039
to get this thing out of the Bible. Like, I

360
00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:37.720
don't think that that's inaccurate. I don't think it was

361
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:40.240
pretty much always like it's not to be a part

362
00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:42.319
of the canon. I don't think. I don't think there

363
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:45.480
was major arguments for its inclusion in the canon.

364
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.920
In fact, let me let.

365
00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:50.799
Me, I'm just gonna have to search here. I'm gonna

366
00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:52.880
have to search. I'm trying to go a lot of

367
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:54.319
memory here. I'm gonna have to do a little bit

368
00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:55.920
of searching here. It was.

369
00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:10.160
They're a large bush to include the book in either

370
00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:15.440
the Old Testament or New Testament.

371
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:19.839
Let's see what we can find, see what we can

372
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:23.400
find here. I'm having to do a little research on this, Okay,

373
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:25.920
from what Okay, this is what I'm finding. There was

374
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:28.759
never a large organized push to include the Book of

375
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.359
Enoch and the canon of either the Old Testament or

376
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:34.279
the New Testament, though it was influential and widely read

377
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:38.240
in some Jewish and early Christian communities the Jewish Canon.

378
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:41.960
The Book of Enoch was popular in certain Jewish circles,

379
00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:48.519
especially among apocalyptic sects, as advanced by the discovery of

380
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.480
Enoch fragments among the Dead Sea scrolls. However, mainstream Jewish leaders,

381
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:55.400
after the destruction of the Second Temple favored text with

382
00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:58.920
more legal and prophetic focus, which had led to its

383
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:01.799
exclusion from the Hebrew Bible. So it sounds like there

384
00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:04.279
wasn't even much desire to put it even in the

385
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:10.359
Hebrew Bible. The book speculative angelology, apocalyptic themes, and detailed

386
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:16.240
eschatology likely contribute to its rejection by rabbinic authorities. Prioritized

387
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:19.920
texts that supported the emerging Jewish theological framework, and Enoch's

388
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:25.000
teachings were seen as too speculative or mystical, so it

389
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:28.119
looked it never showed up in any Old Testament canon,

390
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:30.400
so it wasn't taken out of the Bible. It never

391
00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:33.279
even found its way in, at least for the Old Testament.

392
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:37.359
Now when it comes to the New Testament, the Book

393
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:40.839
of Enoch was known and quoted by early Christians, particularly

394
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:44.599
some believe in the Epistle of Jude, which directly quotes again.

395
00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:47.440
Some say Enoch one to nine early Church fathers. Okay

396
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:51.839
I was right. Totolian considered it valuable, even arguing for

397
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:56.440
its inspiration. However, this view was not widespread, so Totolian

398
00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:58.880
may have been someone who actually believed the Book of

399
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:03.319
Enoch was inspired origin referenced the book, but was cautious

400
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.920
about it. He was like, oh, not so sure. The

401
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.119
Book of Enoch was attributed to Enoch, a pre flood

402
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:14.039
patriarchal patriarch mentioned in Genesis five one through twenty four,

403
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:18.480
but its actual authorship and date of composition, spanning from

404
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.039
three hundred BC to first century CE, was unclear, so

405
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:24.119
we don't really know who wrote it. Maybe even the

406
00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:26.799
dating of it was very difficult, so that could possibly

407
00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:31.880
be a reason it was never included. Its detailed angelology

408
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:36.200
and cosmology were viewed as speculative and potentially heretical by

409
00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:40.559
many earlier church leaders who preferred more straightforward theological text,

410
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:44.200
with some communities valued it, the Book of Enoch did

411
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.519
not enjoy widespread acceptance across the diverse Christian world. The

412
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:52.440
Christian Old Testament was heavily influenced. The Christian Old Testament

413
00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:55.119
was heavily influenced by the Jewish Canon, which had already

414
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:59.480
excluded Enoch. So whether it was the Jewish Bible or

415
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:03.279
the Old the Christian New Old Testament, whatever the case

416
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:07.279
may have been, nobody wanted it included. Tertolia may have

417
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:09.480
been even the maybe and I don't even know if

418
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:11.720
he wanted it in the canon, but he thought it

419
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:14.720
was inspired. So you can see there wasn't like this

420
00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:16.920
was never taken out of the Bible. It never ended

421
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:21.759
up in Okay. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church is the major exception.

422
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:24.680
They included the Book of Enoch and their Biblical Canon,

423
00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:28.079
where it still is regarded as scripture today. This inclusion

424
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:31.640
likely reflects the church's geographical and theological separation from the

425
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:35.720
broader Jewish and Christian community that excluded the book. So

426
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:40.400
it was never taken out. It never ended up in

427
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:45.000
unless you are an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian and they've got

428
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:47.400
other theological issues. We won't even get into a right,

429
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:51.440
So it was taken out of the Bible. I don't

430
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:53.400
know what he meant. I think he misspoke. I think

431
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:55.839
he misspoke. I think that's what he think. I think

432
00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:00.359
it was never included. He makes he misspoke. I'm going

433
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:02.960
to give him credit there that he just misspoke. All right,

434
00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:04.920
So let let's see what happens here.

435
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.119
And that's really not the case.

436
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:13.319
If you look at the list of scriptural books the canon,

437
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:19.039
it only showed up once in one list in Ethiopia,

438
00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:23.319
and all the Ethiopians didn't buy it. One segment of

439
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:28.119
the Orthodox Church in Ethiopia accepted the Book of encas scripture.

440
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:30.480
Okay.

441
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:32.440
I think what he was saying is that the guy

442
00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:35.160
on the podcast was saying it was taken out of

443
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:36.920
the Bible. Okay, I think I miss I think I

444
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:40.240
misunderstood what he was saying. I think it sounded like

445
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:42.119
he was saying that, and I'm like, wait, no, no, no, no,

446
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:44.119
all right, So you're right, the guy you went on

447
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:47.400
his podcast with if he claimed the Book of Enoch

448
00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:50.559
was taken out of the Bible. Then you are absolutely right,

449
00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:52.960
that is incorrect. And now he's going through some of

450
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:55.880
the information I just gave you. Okay, I probably should

451
00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.960
have just kept listening, but I misheard that. But all right,

452
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:01.640
so a good thing you've got double the clarification. The

453
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:04.200
Book of Noch was never taken out of the Bible.

454
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.920
Who was never in it? Okay, unless you're an Ethiopian,

455
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:10.839
an Ethiopian Orthodox Christian, then you're gonna be like, it's

456
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:14.960
right here in my Bible, okay, But everyone else was no.

457
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:20.279
And one Jewish group in Ethiopia accepted it a scripture,

458
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:22.880
and folks have jumped on it today and it's being

459
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.039
printed and it's going everywhere, and it talks about the Nephelimited,

460
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:29.319
it's got all kinds of stuff in it.

461
00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:33.519
But it's popular today. It's all over the Internet and

462
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:34.960
people are looking at it.

463
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:37.680
And I'm going to ask you that with me to

464
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:43.359
first John chapter four, longer title to this is cults,

465
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:51.000
cultic movements, and Internet theologians. Internet theologian. I'm certainly not

466
00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:54.519
against ministry on the Internet. I just told you that's

467
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.279
that's become a significant part of my life, to my

468
00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:04.480
absolute shock and surprise. Did an interview this last week

469
00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:05.519
with a guy it's got two.

470
00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:08.440
Hundred thousand subscribers. I did two.

471
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:12.720
Interviews with him before, and I'll hear just and over

472
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:18.000
and over again from them. He's more sound guy. Again,

473
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:19.480
some of the ones aren't so sound.

474
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:21.480
But an internet.

475
00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:25.960
Theologian is a person whose primary ministry is on the Internet.

476
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:29.720
And this is one of the warnings I like to

477
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:34.319
give people. I don't trust people who that's their only ministry.

478
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:40.160
Oh boy, all right, So if your primary ministry is

479
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:48.079
in the Internet, he doesn't trust you. So if their

480
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:53.920
ministry was also in a church, you would trust them.

481
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:58.319
Joe Olstein is a pastor of a church. Should I

482
00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:04.920
trust him? TD Jakes, And in a serious way, I

483
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:08.240
do hope he's okay. He had a seizure last Sunday.

484
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:10.960
I think during his sermon. Now I think his theology

485
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.960
is abhorrent. I think his theology is a mess. But

486
00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:16.599
he's a pastor of a church. Now I do hope

487
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:19.799
he's okay. I'm criticizing his theology as a man. I

488
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:22.319
hope I want him to be okay. But he's a

489
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:25.200
pastor of a church. I mean how many Mark Driscoll

490
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:28.319
was a pastor of a church. I mean still he's

491
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:30.000
a pastor of a church. Now, I mean I can

492
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:34.839
go through pastor after pastor after pastor, who their ministry

493
00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:40.519
is in an institutionalized church, the institutionalized church. Not only

494
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:44.000
is there false teaching, not only is there heretical teaching,

495
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:49.599
there's sin, there's failure, there's sexual molestation of children. I mean,

496
00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:50.880
we can go on and on and on and on

497
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:53.799
and on. So you don't trust someone whose primary ministry

498
00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:56.519
is on the internet, But if they were also serving

499
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:58.480
in a church, then all of a sudden, now they

500
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:01.319
would be trustworthy. Like I it makes no sense. I'm

501
00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:05.559
not necessarily a fan of that, right, I mean, especially

502
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:08.799
in the non Catholic world. Right, in the non Catholic world,

503
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:17.759
we are all about the scriptures. If someone studies, learns,

504
00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:22.039
and has the ability to communicate and they want to

505
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:26.079
turn on a microphone and communicate with the technology available

506
00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:30.640
to us, does it make them somehow not trustworthy because

507
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:35.920
they're not ministering inside a church. What makes someone trustworthy

508
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:39.039
because they're ministering inside a church. I've heard some of

509
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:44.480
the most abhorred, crazy, insane things, not from people outside

510
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:48.079
of the church, from people inside the church. Some of

511
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:50.079
the most I mean some of the things we have

512
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:54.319
reviewed on this those are things coming from inside the church.

513
00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:00.559
And are they any more trustworthy. Let's let give him

514
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:07.039
the opportunity to explain why.

515
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:09.400
Who doesn't have a ministry with real, live breathing people

516
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:14.680
in front of them. Because the ministry like this, people

517
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:19.400
know you. There has to be some accountability. Many of

518
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:22.279
the folks that are preaching on the internet, nobody knows

519
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:26.559
if they're using their real name, if their story is

520
00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:30.680
the least bit true, or if there are anything similar

521
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:34.000
to what they described themselves as.

522
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:38.240
The same thing can be true. I mean, I mean,

523
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:40.200
I guess in the church you may know they're using

524
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:44.200
their real name. I mean, we had those I can't remember.

525
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:46.920
I don't remember his name. He was going around claiming

526
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:50.519
to be some expert on Islam, preaching a conferences, preaching

527
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:52.960
in churches, was ministering in a church. Come to find

528
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.160
out his entire story with a fraud was a lie,

529
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:56.319
was not was made up.

530
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:01.359
I mean, I.

531
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:06.480
So you've got you've got to be ministering to real,

532
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.639
live breathing people. Well, aren't you when you're when I'm

533
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:12.199
talking right now, there's real, live, breathing people on the

534
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:16.760
other side of this microphone, right, Do they know me? No?

535
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:22.840
So I guess there is an issue there. But there's

536
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:25.920
people who minister in churches. Do people really know them?

537
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:26.199
Be kind?

538
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:27.840
A lot of times you come and find we had

539
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:32.079
no idea. Well, I mean, do you do you really

540
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:34.800
know anyone whether you're looking them in the eye or

541
00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:40.760
you're listening to them via the internet? I don't, Okay,

542
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.159
But again, see I could be I could be very

543
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:46.480
defensive here. I could be very defensive here. I could

544
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.480
be very defensive. So let's I got to give him

545
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:51.159
the opportunity to explain it.

546
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:55.360
And I will tell you there's a whole lot of

547
00:34:55.400 --> 00:35:00.360
con artists with internet ministry.

548
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:04.039
There's a whole lot of con artists with internet industry.

549
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:09.360
There's not corn artists within churches. I mean, come on, now,

550
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:13.199
come on, I see. Look, if you're gonna put criticism

551
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:16.159
at the Internet ministry, you can turn this around to

552
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:19.559
the church. The church has been filled with con artists

553
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:25.840
for two thousand years. Benny hen ministered in church. I mean,

554
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:28.280
we can go through all the charismatics who stood behind

555
00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:31.719
pulpits in churches. There were nothing more than con artist

556
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:37.119
and frauds, and they were ministering to real live people.

557
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:47.800
Hey man, I okay, all right, all right, okay, okay,

558
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:50.639
but see see what I told you. I'm coming this

559
00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:53.280
with a presupposition. I told you, I'm coming at this

560
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:56.119
with assumptions. I'm coming at this with a bias. So

561
00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:58.360
I've got to be careful. I've got to be able

562
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:02.480
to hear. I got to hear. I cannot just I've

563
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:05.039
got to be able to listen to what may go

564
00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:07.000
against my I mean, I've got a vested interest. I

565
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:10.119
do a podcast called Theology Central. You could say why

566
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:14.000
why This title then would obviously draw me in. But

567
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:17.360
I've got to be fair here. So I've got to listen. Here,

568
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:18.039
I've got to listen.

569
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.880
And if you'll look at First John, chapter four, there

570
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.519
are always new teachers. But we've got to learn to

571
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:30.079
ask this question, who's the teacher? What qualifies them to teach?

572
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:35.480
And where is their information coming from?

573
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:36.880
All right, who is the teacher?

574
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:38.280
Right?

575
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:42.280
What is their qualification to teach? Now? Wait a minute,

576
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:47.519
So in the Protestant world, we now have qualifications for teaching. Now,

577
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:50.000
this is where it's going to get interesting, right, because

578
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.480
in the Protestant world, I thought the idea that the

579
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:56.559
person sitting in the pew had the responsibility, the authority,

580
00:36:56.920 --> 00:37:00.880
and the ability to judge if what is being preached

581
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:08.119
is true or false. So now there has to be

582
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:12.239
wait so that what gives someone the authority or right

583
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:14.880
to teach? So you're saying the authority or right to

584
00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:18.079
teach has to come from a church. Well, if the

585
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:20.480
church has the authority and right to teach, then what

586
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:23.400
gives the the authority or right for the people sitting

587
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:25.400
in the pew to determine if it's true or false?

588
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:30.400
The church would then have the authority and the right

589
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:35.719
to teach. So should authority and right be given who?

590
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:41.159
Since Luther was excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church, did

591
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:46.119
he have the right and authority to teach? Wasn't it?

592
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:51.280
Bunyan John Bunyan who would not accept or go with

593
00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:54.480
I think the government was requiring pastors to be licensed

594
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:59.199
by the state. He refused, So you don't want, we

595
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.000
don't want to stay to be the one who determines it.

596
00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:05.239
But we also will say, well, if a church becomes corrupt,

597
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:06.559
you can leave that church.

598
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:07.079
Well.

599
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:10.000
So, but then you can just establish the authority to

600
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:12.719
teach on your own, Like, who gives you the authority

601
00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.039
to do It's got to be the people of the

602
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.000
church that gives you the authority to teach. So the

603
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:19.360
people of the church then could remove your authority to

604
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:24.840
This raises all kinds of questions about how this is

605
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:25.800
supposed to work.

606
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:34.159
First John, chapter four, Verse one, Beloved, believe not every spirit,

607
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:38.719
but try the spirits whether they're of God, because many

608
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:42.480
false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know

609
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:45.920
ye the spirit of God. Every spirit that confesseth that

610
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:48.960
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.

611
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.719
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is

612
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:56.039
come in the flesh is not of God.

613
00:38:57.079 --> 00:38:59.760
Now please note if you're going to use First John

614
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:04.840
based off his introduction, John does not tell the people, Hey, beloved,

615
00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:09.239
this is the way. What do they have an internet ministry?

616
00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:12.760
Don't trust him. He doesn't even say are they ministering

617
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:14.760
in a church? He doesn't even use that as a

618
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:19.599
qualifier or as a way to judge. He says, believe, beloved,

619
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:22.079
believe not every spirit, But try the spirits whether they

620
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:24.239
are of God, because many false prophets are gone out

621
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.440
into the world. Now in the historical context of First John,

622
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:29.679
this is referring to the gnostics, so we won't get

623
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:32.800
into First John is a polemic for against gnosticism. But

624
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:35.039
he says hereby know ye the spirit of God, every

625
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:37.719
spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the

626
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.320
flesh is of God. He doesn't say, hey, see if

627
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.559
they are teaching in a church, See if they're teaching

628
00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:45.360
people who are flesh and blood. Make sure that they're

629
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:47.599
a ministering in a church. He doesn't even use that

630
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:51.840
as a qualifier here as a test. Nothing. He goes

631
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:55.760
with what they are teaching, what they are confessing, not

632
00:39:55.880 --> 00:39:57.960
if they're teaching in a church, out of a church,

633
00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:01.679
he doesn't. That's not even mentioned here at this point.

634
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:05.400
So does that work with his intro?

635
00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:11.239
And this is that spirit of Antichrist? Wherever you've heard

636
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:13.840
that it should come even now already is it in

637
00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:16.639
the world? May I say a lot of people get

638
00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:21.280
confused on this passage. Says everybody that believes indeed of Christ.

639
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.320
That means that they're a preacher of God and it's

640
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:31.599
talking about spirits. Real spirits, real demonic spirits influence people.

641
00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:32.760
Man.

642
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:37.519
The first question is where did they get their information?

643
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:43.480
You have God little children have overcome them.

644
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:45.599
All right. So he's saying, okay, wait a minute, this

645
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:49.199
is not referring to pastors. This is referring to spirits.

646
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:54.079
So every spirit that confessed that Jesus Christ is come

647
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:55.920
in the fleshes of God. This is the way you

648
00:40:56.000 --> 00:40:57.079
test a spirit.

649
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:03.480
Okay, So let me let me do some questioning here.

650
00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:04.039
Let me.

651
00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:12.840
In first, John, for one.

652
00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:15.960
Hang on, if I can if I can spell correctly, John,

653
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:19.760
should not be that difficult to spell, should it. It

654
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:24.800
shouldn't be. But when you're trying to talk and type

655
00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:39.719
when it refers to spirits, Hang on? What are the

656
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:49.159
different ways this has been interpreted? All right, Let's see

657
00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:49.920
what we can get here.

658
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:50.280
All right.

659
00:41:51.159 --> 00:41:56.880
He's just offering a dogmatic assertion, all right, all right,

660
00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:02.440
So there are some different ways. There's some there's some

661
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:05.320
different ways to I know this is going to come

662
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:08.719
as a shock to everyone. Okay, there's a lot of

663
00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:12.280
different ways to interpret these things. I know every single

664
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:14.840
time I have to say that. All right, So it's

665
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:18.719
been interpreted in various ways across Christian traditions. I know

666
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.960
this is a shock, ladies and gentlemen, I am shocked

667
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:25.320
to find out. There's all kinds of different interpretations, all right,

668
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:30.119
supernatural beings, angel slash demons. Some interpret spirits as referring

669
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:33.159
to supernatural beings such as angels or demons who influence

670
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.239
human thought and action. This verse is understood as a

671
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:39.679
warning to discern between divine and demonic influences. Okay, well

672
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:41.760
this is about spirits that I don't know why he's

673
00:42:41.800 --> 00:42:44.760
talking about internet theologians because this would not be a

674
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:47.840
way to I guess what he's going to say is

675
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:52.000
Internet theologians could be getting their information from demons and

676
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.519
not from God. So that we do do I get

677
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:56.840
my information from God? Are you meaning from the Bible?

678
00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:57.079
Okay?

679
00:42:57.159 --> 00:43:00.920
Oh, there's so many directions this could go, all right,

680
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:05.800
So some would say this is supernatural beings, beings, angels, demons,

681
00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:10.960
that type of thing. Many would many overlya spiritualize the passage,

682
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:17.079
focusing exclusively on external influence. So this versus basically, how

683
00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:21.320
do you discern between a divine and demonic influence? I

684
00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:23.760
guess the way you you're able to determine if it's

685
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:27.000
demonic or if it's good. Is do they confess the

686
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.639
deity of Christ? Now again, in the historical context, this

687
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:33.400
is more about testing the gnostics. I mean, I mean,

688
00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:37.000
but I mean, who cares about historical context. We'll get

689
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:41.679
into that all right now. Some believe that this is

690
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:46.679
human teachers are prophets. This is this is not angels

691
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:51.719
or demons. Spirits refer to the teachings and influence of

692
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:56.599
human individuals, particularly those claiming to be prophets, are spiritual leaders.

693
00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:00.519
The immediate context of First John four on through three,

694
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:03.280
he mentions false prophets and their failure to confess Jesus

695
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:06.360
Christ es central to their message. So they're saying that

696
00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:09.239
the basic argument here is it would make more sense

697
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:11.880
to see these spirits as being human teachers or prophets,

698
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:13.800
because that's what the text is about. Look at First

699
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:17.400
John four to three, and and if you if you

700
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:23.679
look here, in every spirit, okay, verse three, and every

701
00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:26.280
spirit that confesses not Jesus Christ has come into flesh

702
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:28.199
is not is not of God. And this is the

703
00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:30.599
spirit of anti Christ. Wherefore you have heard that it

704
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:34.320
should come and even now already's in the world all right. Uh,

705
00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:38.119
so the I know, look at verse one. Uh, because

706
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:41.079
many false prophets are gone out in the world, So

707
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:46.559
the context seems to be referring to false prophets, those

708
00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:52.280
who are speaking falsehoods. All right. So the strength of

709
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:54.440
this view that it's human teachers. It's grounded in the

710
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:58.360
context of early Christian struggles against heresies like gnosticism. Told you,

711
00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:01.760
I told you the The context here is about the gnostics.

712
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:05.840
This is about testing the gnostics, right, the false prophets,

713
00:45:06.039 --> 00:45:09.159
the anti Christs that were already present were the gnostics

714
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:13.599
in First John. That's why context matters. Now, the weakness

715
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:16.519
of this view could be it downplays the possibility of

716
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:21.920
supernatural influence. But again, is this like, I don't know,

717
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:26.800
so I could go there's how many different.

718
00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:27.639
Views are here?

719
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:31.880
There are like five six views if we go through

720
00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:35.719
historical interpretations. The early Church particularly understood this as a

721
00:45:35.719 --> 00:45:40.440
warning against gnosticism. Home shocking. I've only been saying that

722
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:43.840
I don't know for fifty years. Okay, First John is

723
00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:50.119
about gnosticism, all right. The reformers John Calvin emphasize testing, teaching,

724
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:54.079
and character of individuals claiming spiritual authority. So Calvin is like, Hey,

725
00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:57.679
when someone claims spiritual authority, then we got to test

726
00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:00.280
them to see if they believe in Jesus Christ, his

727
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.639
deity and he's come in the flesh his incarnation. Now,

728
00:46:03.639 --> 00:46:08.639
where you get to modern evangelicals, they focus on discernment

729
00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:14.760
between orthodox and heterodox teachings, especially in response to cults

730
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:20.440
and modern ideologies. So the early chair, so let's see

731
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:22.559
where he goes with this. Let's see where he goes

732
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:24.599
with this. You see where he goes with this. I

733
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:27.159
don't know. I don't know. I don't know. No, I'm

734
00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:29.800
just all right. I just gotta let him try to.

735
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:32.679
I've got some obviously issues. But let's see where he

736
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:33.159
goes with this.

737
00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:36.599
Because greater is he that is in you than he

738
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:42.039
that is in the world. We're given this warning you

739
00:46:42.199 --> 00:46:46.840
don't believe everything you hear. Bible says in Proverbs the

740
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:51.360
simple believeth every word.

741
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.320
I agree, we don't believe everything we hear. That would

742
00:46:55.320 --> 00:47:02.360
include you. That would include masters who stand behind a

743
00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:05.679
pulpit ministering to people and looking them right in the eye,

744
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:07.719
who are flesh and blood. And that would mean people

745
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.199
who are broadcasting on the internet. That would mean people

746
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:22.000
who's their entire ministry is Internet based, right, I mean,

747
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:25.360
we could go through church history and see where all

748
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:28.239
the hit just go through history. Now, I know this

749
00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:31.639
is a little unfair, but church history would be that

750
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:36.480
all heresy and false teaching typically arises from within the church.

751
00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:39.800
Even Paul warned that there's going to be ravening wolves

752
00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:44.239
that arise from within you. Paul was constantly having to

753
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:48.800
go to churches to fix the problems inside churches. So

754
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:53.960
historically the problems have always been inside the church, not

755
00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:57.559
by people broadcasting on the Internet. Now that's because obviously

756
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:00.719
there's more history of it without the Internet than there

757
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:05.000
is with it. But I'm just saying, like the internet's

758
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.880
the Internet theologians are the problem, and you can't trust

759
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:10.239
them because they're not ministering to people. Well, I've got

760
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:12.679
two thousand years of church history of people ministering to

761
00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:19.719
people inside churches who were flat out heretical, charlatans, liars, deceivers,

762
00:48:20.119 --> 00:48:21.880
and everything else in the book.

763
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:29.320
Now, Internet theologians have become a real significant influence. You

764
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:34.039
see it all the time. They're distracting new converts. People

765
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:36.760
get saved, they start to grow, and then they get

766
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:41.440
sidetracked by this person and this set of ideas.

767
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:47.199
Oh wait, so internet theologians distract new converts. I know,

768
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:51.480
because that never happened with let me see printed sermons,

769
00:48:52.119 --> 00:49:01.960
Christian books, commentaries, radio television, other churches, is fellow other

770
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:05.519
friends who claim to be Christians who believe differently? Has

771
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:17.760
this not been going on for two thousand years? So

772
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:20.559
so let me guess. So what a new convert should

773
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:27.519
do is not listen to anyone except his church. Is

774
00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:30.519
that is that is that where this is going. He

775
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:35.039
should only listen to the magisterium of his local church

776
00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:41.119
because his local church is the bastion of truth. Right now,

777
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:42.840
I'm not saying that's what he's saying, but that you

778
00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:45.519
see where you could get a logical progression here. Now,

779
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:48.039
I look, I've been in churches of that independent fundamental

780
00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:50.880
Baptist churches. I said in many where like don't listen

781
00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:52.679
to this person, and don't listen to that, and you

782
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:55.440
don't listen to that. I look, it was it was

783
00:49:55.480 --> 00:49:58.199
told that you would be in trouble at the church

784
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:02.920
I went to in uh Papilion, Nebraska back in the nineties,

785
00:50:03.159 --> 00:50:05.760
that he made a rule that you cannot go to

786
00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:10.760
a promise keeper's meeting, and you're like, what in the

787
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.400
world you can't tell me which preaching I can listen

788
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:16.360
to and not listen to? What this is not? This

789
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:19.440
is becoming cult like? And which? Then that just led

790
00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:21.920
me that was the beginning of the end once I

791
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:23.920
mentioned that, But it was very cult like. You're gonna

792
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:25.800
tell me now which preaching I could listen to and

793
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:30.000
not listen to, Like you're the pope, We're not Catholic,

794
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:37.760
there is no magisterial authority does all the teaching and

795
00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:45.360
internet theologians? Does it distract new converts? Or is it

796
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:47.920
just that they may hear something that disagrees with you

797
00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:56.360
and your message is on the internet. How about if

798
00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:59.719
your message is distracting a new convert who's a member

799
00:50:59.719 --> 00:51:03.280
of a church who doesn't agree with you, aren't you

800
00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:05.519
doing the very same thing that you could be accusing

801
00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:06.480
someone else of doing.

802
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:14.280
They infect local churches with false doctrine that the preacher

803
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:15.679
would never have invited in.

804
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:24.880
Internet theologians infect churches with false doctrine. You mean they

805
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:28.440
infect the church with a doctrine that's different than yours.

806
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:33.400
So you get to decide what is the true doctrine,

807
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:37.559
and any doctrine that disagrees with you is false. Doctrine

808
00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:41.599
is that So you're gonna be the You're gonna be

809
00:51:41.719 --> 00:51:44.280
the pope, and you're gonna say, here's the true doctrine.

810
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:49.639
If anything that disagrees with this is bad. Now, look

811
00:51:50.039 --> 00:51:54.960
we name it the way he's already approached First John four.

812
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:56.960
I can already show you there's plenty of people in

813
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:01.559
church history that would disagree with him. He didn't even

814
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:05.280
mention First John as a polemic against gnosticism. He may

815
00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:07.119
have done teaching on First John. Where he does that,

816
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:07.800
I don't know.

817
00:52:11.079 --> 00:52:11.360
See that.

818
00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:14.519
Okay, let's just see where it goes. Let's see where

819
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:14.800
it goes.

820
00:52:18.159 --> 00:52:23.400
And they challenge the role of the pastor that they

821
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:26.239
try to become the teacher. God has a plan.

822
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:37.639
Okay, they become the pastor. Hmm. You're right. When you

823
00:52:37.719 --> 00:52:41.159
post your internet, when you post your sermons on the Internet,

824
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:45.960
you can kind of become the de facto pastor for

825
00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:52.000
people in other places. So if you by post posting

826
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:55.199
your content on the Internet, could you not then be

827
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:58.599
doing the very things you're accusing the Internet theologians of doing.

828
00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:02.199
Any speaking of the Internet, theologians as if they're different

829
00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:04.639
from him. You've got content on the Internet. It's been

830
00:53:04.639 --> 00:53:07.480
downloaded over a million times. I would say, you're right

831
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:10.320
there with the rest of us, all right, So all

832
00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:15.119
of us as internet theologians, look, every church that posts

833
00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:19.039
their sermons on the Internet. You can become the de

834
00:53:19.159 --> 00:53:23.440
facto church. You can become you can become the pastor

835
00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:27.039
of ten people, twenty people, fifty people, one hundred people.

836
00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:30.239
If you don't want that to happen, then don't put

837
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:34.719
anything on. Get rid of sermon audio. Just disband it,

838
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:37.800
be done with it. Sermon audio, you're hurting the local

839
00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:43.639
church because you're infecting it with other doctrines and other teachings.

840
00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:47.280
You've got Presbyterians on there, Lutherans on their independent, Baptist,

841
00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:52.800
free will Baptists. You've got everything. Oh you're infect because

842
00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:55.880
not every look. I can listen to lots of things

843
00:53:55.920 --> 00:53:58.719
on sermonadio, and I mean I agree, there's Presbyterians on there.

844
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:01.079
I clearly disagree with their view and fit Baptism. There's

845
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:03.480
all millennial list on there. I clearly disagree with them.

846
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:08.679
This sermon is on sermon audio. So you're on a

847
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:14.760
platform that infects people and distracts people with doctrinal discussions

848
00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:17.760
and differences that may go against what their pastors teach.

849
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:20.880
And you don't tell me those churches on sermonadio don't

850
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:26.679
become the basically default church and ministry for other people.

851
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:29.440
That's just if you're gonna be on the internet, that's

852
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:34.960
what happens. And even before the Internet, there were people

853
00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:38.360
who MacArthur was their pastor, Chucks Windahl was their pastor

854
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:42.559
because I listened to them on Christian radio. There are

855
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:45.719
probably people that Spurgeon was their pastor because his sermons

856
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:53.960
were printed in the paper. There were people that Billy

857
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:56.719
Graham basically was their pastor because they watched their crusade,

858
00:54:56.800 --> 00:55:06.559
his crusades. I I you know, okay, I got to

859
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:08.320
see where this goes. I got to see where this goes.

860
00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:12.880
God bless you all. You're in a local church this morning.

861
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:16.559
God's plan is for you to be in a church.

862
00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:19.519
You to be taught the Bible by the leaders in

863
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:23.599
that church, people who have the sanction of that church

864
00:55:23.639 --> 00:55:26.639
on them. They didn't just show up and decide to

865
00:55:26.679 --> 00:55:30.239
teach a pastor in inner city of Chicago, and Inner

866
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:32.880
Chicago was an interesting place. We had all kinds of

867
00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:37.280
people wandering in all the time, and one fellaw wandered

868
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:40.199
in one time. He had chosen to use the term

869
00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:43.480
Anabaptist to describe himself as an a Baptist, but said

870
00:55:43.480 --> 00:55:50.280
he was an Anabaptist ordained or appointed anointed preacher, and

871
00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:53.599
that God had sent him to teach in our church.

872
00:55:55.639 --> 00:56:00.559
He didn't tell me this, He just wandering around telling

873
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:04.320
people this. And one of our young men, who at

874
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:07.519
that time was a good new convert and excited about

875
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:08.519
the Lord, said.

876
00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:09.480
Well, this doesn't sound right.

877
00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:15.280
He said, do you know the pastor? No, he said,

878
00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:19.239
I need to meet the pastor. And he's saying, well,

879
00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:21.679
how do you know you're supposed to be teaching this church.

880
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:27.039
So he came looking for me and found me and

881
00:56:27.079 --> 00:56:29.199
he said, there's this guy over here, and he told

882
00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:30.199
me what he said.

883
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:31.639
And he said, he scares me.

884
00:56:33.760 --> 00:56:36.719
I said, so I went and talked to him, and

885
00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:40.320
he said, the Lord has led me here. I said, no,

886
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:45.519
I didn't. He said, well, how do you know? Because

887
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:49.559
because I'm the pastor and God works through the pastor,

888
00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:55.159
people don't just show up and teaching our church. Our

889
00:56:55.320 --> 00:57:00.760
church authorizes people to teach or to preach, and we

890
00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:04.199
would have to know something about you and your doctrine

891
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:06.840
and what you believe, and what your purpose would be,

892
00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:08.880
and then we'd have to decide we had a reason

893
00:57:08.920 --> 00:57:11.639
to have you. I said, I have traveled a lot,

894
00:57:11.639 --> 00:57:13.519
and I know a lot of preachers, and I could

895
00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:16.679
never have all the good preachers that I know preaching

896
00:57:16.719 --> 00:57:20.800
the church. And I said, the Lord works in the

897
00:57:20.840 --> 00:57:26.480
local church through the pastor. I am acceptable to preach

898
00:57:26.519 --> 00:57:30.960
to you here today for one reason. The pastor invited me.

899
00:57:33.079 --> 00:57:37.199
That means I have some accountability. That means he knows

900
00:57:37.199 --> 00:57:40.880
something about me. That means something about what I believe,

901
00:57:42.039 --> 00:57:43.519
something about what I stand for.

902
00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:46.599
So I explained to that fella, God did not.

903
00:57:46.599 --> 00:57:48.840
Lead you here to preach. And he kept saying you, well,

904
00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:53.360
there's been some misunderstanding. I said, yes, and it's yours

905
00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:57.440
has been a misunderstanding. You think God called you here

906
00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:00.039
to teach and preach, and I'm telling you if that,

907
00:58:00.039 --> 00:58:03.079
that's not possible because I'm the pastor and I didn't

908
00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:09.199
invite you. And he continued to hang around and ask

909
00:58:09.239 --> 00:58:11.480
folks if he could come to their home and hold

910
00:58:11.559 --> 00:58:18.360
Bible studies. So at that point I had to get

911
00:58:18.440 --> 00:58:22.199
up in the pulpit, say you see this gentleman over here,

912
00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:26.320
he's going around offering the whole Bible studies for you.

913
00:58:28.519 --> 00:58:31.639
We don't have the faintest idea who he is, and

914
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:35.400
he has no authorization or authority from the church, and

915
00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:40.079
he does not belong here doing that. And your pastor

916
00:58:40.119 --> 00:58:43.320
advises you, none of you, to let him come visit

917
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:47.000
you home. You see, this is the challenge we're facing

918
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:49.480
all over. Not so much today is often by people

919
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:54.679
showing up, but people have access to you the internet.

920
00:58:55.639 --> 00:58:59.760
This was the procedure years ago. We protect our congregation,

921
00:59:00.239 --> 00:59:07.679
real simple, We're careful who we invited to preach, no problem.

922
00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:10.800
But it's never been that simple because they had radio,

923
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:16.239
television books. That's just that's what year are you referring to?

924
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:21.039
What year were you referring to? They were they were

925
00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:24.199
produced as soon as especially if you just go from

926
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:27.599
the Reformation moving forward, I mean, if you go from

927
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:31.239
the Reformation moving forward, and once the printing press was available,

928
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:39.840
all kinds of religious literature was being printed. So I mean,

929
00:59:39.880 --> 00:59:41.760
basically what he's seeming to be saying is, look, you

930
00:59:41.800 --> 00:59:43.320
just go to a local church and that's all you'll

931
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:47.920
listen to the end boom, you cannot trust anybody else. Well,

932
00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:50.800
that seems to set up then that the church has

933
00:59:50.840 --> 00:59:53.880
the authority. They're the ones who interpret the scripture and

934
00:59:53.920 --> 00:59:57.039
you just listen to them. Well, then can anyone ever

935
00:59:57.159 --> 00:59:59.719
challenge the church? Can anyone ever question the church? Can

936
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:04.159
any want ever lave the church? Now? I'm not saying

937
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:06.559
that that's what he's saying. I am saying that that's

938
01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:12.000
the logical progression. This kind of thinking seems to be

939
01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:12.719
leading to.

940
01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:17.719
We didn't have bad teachers in a pulpit, didn't have

941
01:00:17.719 --> 01:00:20.800
bad preachers in a pulpit that pretty much protected our people.

942
01:00:21.159 --> 01:00:22.679
You know, most of the time.

943
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:28.719
Today you all have access to thousands of false teachers

944
01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:34.920
any time you please. They're a button or two away.

945
01:00:36.760 --> 01:00:41.800
And there's no way a pastor can protect everybody just

946
01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:45.280
by controlling the pulpit. I knew preachers who didn't used

947
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:47.320
to want to talk about controversial things too much, or

948
01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:50.239
controversial people because my people don't anything about them, They

949
01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:52.760
don't need to hear about them. Just better off leaving

950
01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:54.480
and alone. And you might be able to make that

951
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:56.760
argument of that case, But you can't do it now

952
01:00:56.880 --> 01:01:02.480
because everybody has access to a limited number of false

953
01:01:02.519 --> 01:01:03.119
teachers now.

954
01:01:03.920 --> 01:01:06.480
And one of the things you saw during the pandemic.

955
01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:12.480
When folks were having to look for information services, etc.

956
01:01:13.239 --> 01:01:16.840
Lots of false teachers really flourished.

957
01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:20.519
During the pandemic. This is a huge challenge.

958
01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:23.519
And when we face and can I say to you

959
01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:29.800
that these false teachers often appeal to a certain type

960
01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:35.360
of personality, folks who want to feel special because they

961
01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:42.159
know something everybody doesn't know. The second church I pastored,

962
01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:47.039
I was just coming to my last few sundays there.

963
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:50.000
We'd met this family at some meeting and that they

964
01:01:50.079 --> 01:01:52.039
lived in the neighborhood and the English Church and were

965
01:01:52.039 --> 01:01:54.760
invited him to church and came. They started coming to

966
01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:57.400
church and they were using being in the church to

967
01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:00.360
pass out information on the Christian identity cult.

968
01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:04.039
That's a very dangerous cult. It's a cult that.

969
01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:07.559
Teaches that salvation is based on race not grace. That's

970
01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:12.719
their phrase, race not grace. They teach white folks are saved,

971
01:02:14.199 --> 01:02:17.639
that black folks don't have a soul, and not really

972
01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:20.119
sure about brown folks. I don't don't know how that works.

973
01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:26.199
And so they're coming to church and they're passing out

974
01:02:26.239 --> 01:02:31.719
literature to people, and so I heard about it, found

975
01:02:31.719 --> 01:02:33.440
out I said, you can't do that. You cannot pass

976
01:02:33.480 --> 01:02:34.639
out any that material here.

977
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:39.440
You do realize every one of his illustrations are about

978
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:42.679
things that's happened inside the church. He's not used to

979
01:02:42.679 --> 01:02:47.239
any illustrations about people on the internet. It's about internet theologians.

980
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.039
But all of he's talked about is the thing that's

981
01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:50.400
happened inside the church.

982
01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:56.519
You can't bring so you cannot come to church here

983
01:02:56.519 --> 01:02:58.280
if you're not willing to cooperate this. But so you

984
01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:03.119
cannot distribute any that material at church. So they became

985
01:03:03.159 --> 01:03:07.559
not quite so open about it. And on my last

986
01:03:07.559 --> 01:03:13.280
Sunday as pastor, I could see them in the back

987
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:18.280
and I could see their arm motion going like this.

988
01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:20.880
I couldn't see what they were passing out, but I

989
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:25.920
had the idea it wasn't candy. And so one of

990
01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:29.639
my last axes, Pastor, I asked the ushers to see

991
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:34.239
them out of the building. And that's not just a disagreement,

992
01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:40.159
that's a dangerous cultic idea.

993
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:40.480
Now now.

994
01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:45.320
Right, And that was happening inside the church, and then

995
01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:48.800
you were gonna go, and then that there would have

996
01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:51.280
been back probably the next Sunday depending if you let

997
01:03:51.639 --> 01:03:57.119
like how oh, okay, I mean that's why inside churches

998
01:03:57.159 --> 01:04:02.599
there's church splits, there's fighting, there's all denominational splits. All

999
01:04:02.679 --> 01:04:05.280
these things happen inside the church. But okay, all right,

1000
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:07.360
so now he's gonna say, but now the internet, but

1001
01:04:07.400 --> 01:04:09.960
now the inner Okay, all right, okay, let's see what

1002
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:11.199
he's going to say.

1003
01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:14.960
That idea is all over the place on the internet,

1004
01:04:15.639 --> 01:04:18.400
not on radio much because radio stations won't deal with it.

1005
01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:23.400
But it's all over the internet. And these kind of

1006
01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:26.559
things appeal to certain people. Say say, you know, I

1007
01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:32.440
know something everybody else doesn't know. Look at me, I'm special.

1008
01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:38.400
There's a certain personality that wraps around that.

1009
01:04:38.599 --> 01:04:42.199
Would you look back with me. It's a passage. You notice.

1010
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:49.800
That same attitude or spirit is in local churches. Oh

1011
01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:53.400
we believe this, we teach this. We're different than that church,

1012
01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:56.159
or that. Every church has to draw some distinction about

1013
01:04:56.400 --> 01:04:58.679
why their church is better than the other churches, even

1014
01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:02.280
if it's not explicitly dated, because well then people will

1015
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:04.960
go to the other churches. Right, everyone's got we've got

1016
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:08.880
a corner on something. We're different, we're unique, we're special.

1017
01:05:09.760 --> 01:05:13.320
That's just as much a local church issue as it

1018
01:05:13.400 --> 01:05:17.519
is an Internet issue.

1019
01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:23.360
We're told not to believe every spirit. You understand, they

1020
01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:27.639
are false spirits at work in this world, providing false information.

1021
01:05:29.719 --> 01:05:33.360
That's a fact, it's reality. It is where false theology

1022
01:05:33.400 --> 01:05:37.159
comes from in big quantities are small quantities?

1023
01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:48.559
Wrong theology comes from evil spirits? Hmm? Oh, we could

1024
01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:50.679
get into a discussion here, could we not. We're going

1025
01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:52.360
to run out, We're running out of time. We're already

1026
01:05:52.400 --> 01:05:54.920
over an hour. I know. So, then that means good

1027
01:05:54.920 --> 01:05:59.159
theology doesn't come from Bible study. It comes from good spirits.

1028
01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:02.159
The good Spirit tells me what to believe. Is that

1029
01:06:02.199 --> 01:06:04.599
where we're getting ready to go? Because if so, we're

1030
01:06:04.639 --> 01:06:07.679
about to enter into some very charismatic territory, are we not.

1031
01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:15.000
Joseph Smith in the Mormons, Joseph Smith has that story

1032
01:06:15.519 --> 01:06:20.199
about he saw an angel, and the angel Moroni but

1033
01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:23.199
began to tell him about these golden plates and led

1034
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:24.440
him to these golden plates.

1035
01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:27.440
And out of the golden plates come in the Book

1036
01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:27.920
of Mormon.

1037
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:30.840
And in the Book of Mormon you'll find out that

1038
01:06:30.920 --> 01:06:34.039
while Jesus was a great man who became God through

1039
01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:36.880
his good works, the way that anybody can become God.

1040
01:06:37.119 --> 01:06:38.639
He did not start out as God.

1041
01:06:38.800 --> 01:06:42.360
And you also find out that Christianity is good if

1042
01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:44.440
it's proper. But you have to be sure about a

1043
01:06:44.480 --> 01:06:46.320
few things. One of them is which there's no blood

1044
01:06:46.360 --> 01:06:53.199
atonement for sin. According to Joseph Smith, a spirit told

1045
01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:58.000
him that. But you're not supposed to believe every spirit.

1046
01:06:59.440 --> 01:07:02.880
You're supposed to to try the spirits to see whether

1047
01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:06.519
they're have God. Say, this is the question you have

1048
01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:09.559
to ask with all these where did they get their information?

1049
01:07:10.760 --> 01:07:13.039
And often you'll find out, though we'll be reluctant to

1050
01:07:13.039 --> 01:07:17.079
tell you where they got the information. Islam itself started

1051
01:07:18.079 --> 01:07:18.840
Joseph Smith.

1052
01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:25.719
Okay, now wait a minute, we got a problem here. Okay,

1053
01:07:25.719 --> 01:07:28.199
I'm gonna back this up. So he just he made

1054
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:32.719
some very specific claims about the Book of Mormon. Now,

1055
01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:36.239
I I'm gonna be very cautious here, because you know,

1056
01:07:36.360 --> 01:07:39.320
we've gotta test the spirits, right, and you can't trust

1057
01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:42.440
every you know, those internet theologians cannot be trusted, right,

1058
01:07:42.880 --> 01:07:48.880
So while his messages on the Internet, I'm gonna challenge

1059
01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:52.480
I'm gonna at least think about this carefully because I've

1060
01:07:52.519 --> 01:07:55.360
read the Book of Mormon. Multiple times. So I'm just

1061
01:07:55.440 --> 01:07:57.079
gonna back up and make sure I know exactly what

1062
01:07:57.119 --> 01:07:59.239
he says, and I'm gonta, I gotta verify a few things.

1063
01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:01.360
He may be right, but I'm just going to be

1064
01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:04.920
a little careful here, all right, because lots of times

1065
01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:07.320
people claim things, and so I'm going to see how

1066
01:08:07.360 --> 01:08:08.960
far we can back this up. Let's see how if

1067
01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:13.000
this is back far back, far enough, here we go Mormon.

1068
01:08:13.039 --> 01:08:15.480
You'll find out that while Jesus was a great man

1069
01:08:15.639 --> 01:08:18.479
who became God through his good works the way that

1070
01:08:18.520 --> 01:08:21.479
anybody can become God, he did not start out as God.

1071
01:08:21.640 --> 01:08:25.239
And you also find out that Christianity is good if

1072
01:08:25.239 --> 01:08:27.319
it's proper. But you have to be sure about a

1073
01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:29.159
few things. One of them is which there's no blood

1074
01:08:29.199 --> 01:08:32.479
atonement for sin, all right.

1075
01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:34.840
So one of those things is that the Book of

1076
01:08:34.840 --> 01:08:42.159
Mormon teaches that there's no blood atonement for sin. Hmm, okay,

1077
01:08:42.159 --> 01:08:46.800
So I had to look something up just to verify.

1078
01:08:46.960 --> 01:08:51.960
The Book of Mormon does not teach no blood atonement

1079
01:08:52.000 --> 01:08:56.760
for sin, but rather emphasizes the necessity of Jesus christ

1080
01:08:56.760 --> 01:09:00.680
atoning sacrifice, including the shedding of his blood, as central salvation.

1081
01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:05.199
This is consistent with broader Christian doctrine on the atonement.

1082
01:09:05.279 --> 01:09:07.600
Below are some of the key points and references from

1083
01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:13.880
the Book of Mormon. All right, explicit references to Christ's atonement. Right,

1084
01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:17.039
They quote from the Book of Mormon and Lo, he

1085
01:09:17.239 --> 01:09:21.479
shall suffer temptations and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue,

1086
01:09:21.520 --> 01:09:24.079
even more than he can suffer. Accept it be under death,

1087
01:09:24.159 --> 01:09:27.359
Or behold, blood cometh from every poor, So great shall

1088
01:09:27.399 --> 01:09:30.439
be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of

1089
01:09:30.720 --> 01:09:34.880
his people. Another quote from the Book of Mormon discusses

1090
01:09:34.920 --> 01:09:37.520
the necessity of faith and the coming of Christ, who

1091
01:09:37.560 --> 01:09:41.079
atones for sin. And another part of the Book of Mormon,

1092
01:09:41.279 --> 01:09:43.600
we read and behold, I am sent to speak these

1093
01:09:43.640 --> 01:09:46.439
things unto you, that you may learn wisdom, that you

1094
01:09:46.520 --> 01:09:49.119
may learn that there is no other way or means

1095
01:09:49.159 --> 01:09:52.319
whereby man can be saved only and through the atoning

1096
01:09:52.560 --> 01:10:04.840
blood of Jesus Christ. So where does this come from? Well,

1097
01:10:05.079 --> 01:10:09.399
there is a potential source for misunderstanding the phrase blood atonement. Well,

1098
01:10:09.399 --> 01:10:12.600
the Book of Mormon teaches what teaches about Christ atonement

1099
01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:16.359
through his shed blood. The specific phrase blood atonement is

1100
01:10:16.399 --> 01:10:22.840
associated with later Mormon teachings especially Brigham Young's controversial doctrines.

1101
01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:26.079
This has led to misunderstand misunderstandings about the Book of

1102
01:10:26.119 --> 01:10:30.760
Mormon stance. So it's not the Book of Mormon. There's

1103
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:35.279
some later Mormon teaching that may cause some misunderstanding. Now again,

1104
01:10:35.439 --> 01:10:41.479
he's on the internet. Hey, remember how internet teachers could

1105
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:44.880
distract young converts and how they could corrupt people and

1106
01:10:44.920 --> 01:10:48.119
get false teaching inside churches. Well, he's saying things about

1107
01:10:48.119 --> 01:10:53.119
Mormonism that may not be even accurate. Now, the blood

1108
01:10:53.119 --> 01:10:58.079
atonement doctrine taught in nineteenth century Mormonism outside of the

1109
01:10:58.079 --> 01:11:02.319
Book of Mormon suggested that certain grievous sins might require

1110
01:11:02.359 --> 01:11:05.319
the shedding of the sinner's blood for forgiveness. This teaching

1111
01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:07.319
is distinct from what is in the Book of Mormon

1112
01:11:07.439 --> 01:11:13.039
and does not negate its focus on Christ's atonement, So

1113
01:11:13.960 --> 01:11:17.960
there may be misunderstanding. Some critics may have mistakenly conflate

1114
01:11:18.159 --> 01:11:20.880
extra biblical woman teachings with the doctrine of the Book

1115
01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:24.359
of Mormon itself, leading to claims about that the Book

1116
01:11:24.359 --> 01:11:27.199
of Mormon denies the necessity of christ shed blood. And

1117
01:11:27.279 --> 01:11:29.439
I've got the actual quotes here from the Book of

1118
01:11:29.479 --> 01:11:33.079
Mormon that would that I just read to you that

1119
01:11:33.079 --> 01:11:41.239
that's not that's not the ca at Ah. So you're

1120
01:11:41.239 --> 01:11:45.760
gonna you're gonna criticize internet theologians, Well, your message is

1121
01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:48.960
on the internet, and in some Internet theologian has to

1122
01:11:49.000 --> 01:11:50.880
listen to your message and say, well, wait a minute,

1123
01:11:50.920 --> 01:11:54.199
I don't think that's accurate. But while you criticize internet

1124
01:11:54.239 --> 01:12:06.760
theologians and man man man, the Book of Mormon, here's

1125
01:12:06.800 --> 01:12:12.680
how Ai summarizes it. Clearly affirms the necessity of christ atonement,

1126
01:12:12.800 --> 01:12:16.039
including the shedding of His blood for the remission of sins.

1127
01:12:16.279 --> 01:12:18.640
Any claim that the Book of Mormon teaches Noah blood

1128
01:12:18.640 --> 01:12:26.119
atoneat appears to misunderstand or is misrepresenting its content. However,

1129
01:12:26.359 --> 01:12:31.079
the controversy around the broader LDS teachings, especially historical ideas

1130
01:12:31.079 --> 01:12:35.840
of the blood under atonement, may contribute to this misunderstanding.

1131
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:39.880
In other words, there's very nuanced and layered things you

1132
01:12:39.960 --> 01:12:42.239
have to understand. If you're going to say something about

1133
01:12:42.239 --> 01:12:44.560
the Book of Mormon, then you may want to actually

1134
01:12:44.560 --> 01:12:46.960
make sure what you're saying is true about the Book

1135
01:12:46.960 --> 01:12:49.520
of Mormon. And I've heard pastors say things about the

1136
01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:53.279
Satanic Bible completely not true. I've heard pastors say things

1137
01:12:53.359 --> 01:12:56.760
about Catholicism completely not true. I've heard past Oh, and

1138
01:12:56.840 --> 01:13:00.359
these are things happening in the local church while teaching people. Hm.

1139
01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:03.920
But that's okay. But those internet theologians, those are the

1140
01:13:03.920 --> 01:13:07.520
bad people. You can't trust them. You can always trust

1141
01:13:07.560 --> 01:13:12.479
people who preach from the pulpit because they would never mislead,

1142
01:13:13.119 --> 01:13:17.000
they would never get their information wrong. Never, it's unheard of.

1143
01:13:21.880 --> 01:13:27.840
According to Joseph Smith, a spirit told him that. But

1144
01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:29.560
you're not supposed to believe every spirit.

1145
01:13:31.720 --> 01:13:35.479
A spirit told him that there's no blood atonement. Well,

1146
01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:37.720
considering he didn't teach it in the Book of Mormon,

1147
01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:44.159
we've got problems because, look, I do not like Mormonism.

1148
01:13:44.359 --> 01:13:47.159
I think it's a completely radical, false teaching. But you

1149
01:13:47.239 --> 01:13:48.600
got to fairly represent it.

1150
01:13:53.760 --> 01:13:57.359
You're supposed to try the spirits to see whether they're

1151
01:13:57.359 --> 01:14:00.920
of God. Say, this is the question you have to

1152
01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:03.840
ask with all these where did they get their information?

1153
01:14:06.520 --> 01:14:11.600
Exactly? Where did you get your information? Where did you

1154
01:14:11.720 --> 01:14:17.319
get your information? Now I do not have my Book

1155
01:14:17.359 --> 01:14:18.359
of Mormon.

1156
01:14:19.439 --> 01:14:22.760
Handy.

1157
01:14:23.319 --> 01:14:25.199
I do not now I have references from the Book

1158
01:14:25.199 --> 01:14:28.199
of Mormon. So what I may do maybe not right now,

1159
01:14:28.319 --> 01:14:29.800
I don't know if I'll get to it this evening.

1160
01:14:30.039 --> 01:14:32.159
But what I may do is find my copy of

1161
01:14:32.199 --> 01:14:35.399
the Book of Mormon, look up these specific references, and

1162
01:14:35.439 --> 01:14:39.000
then read them from the Book of Mormon. Because he

1163
01:14:39.119 --> 01:14:40.800
just made a claim about the Book of Mormon, he

1164
01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:44.119
didn't tell me where did he get his information? Where? Oh,

1165
01:14:44.279 --> 01:14:46.560
did he give it from a false from maybe from

1166
01:14:46.600 --> 01:14:49.359
a demon? Is that what I'm supposed to assume here?

1167
01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:52.039
Because the information he just gave does not appear to

1168
01:14:52.079 --> 01:14:54.159
be accurate in any way, shape or form. In fact,

1169
01:14:54.199 --> 01:14:58.840
it's a complete misunderstanding. So where did he get his information?

1170
01:14:58.920 --> 01:15:01.640
He just stood behind the pulpit, posted it on the internet.

1171
01:15:04.840 --> 01:15:07.119
And often you'll find out that we'll be reluctant to

1172
01:15:07.119 --> 01:15:11.159
tell you where they got the information. Islam itself started

1173
01:15:12.159 --> 01:15:15.920
Joseph Smith married a rich widow. She had a caravan route.

1174
01:15:16.079 --> 01:15:18.640
It was an overnight route between two cities, and they

1175
01:15:18.640 --> 01:15:21.000
would stop at a certain oasis. There was a small

1176
01:15:21.039 --> 01:15:25.800
cave at oasis, and Mohammed is taking the group the

1177
01:15:25.840 --> 01:15:28.479
caravan and he's staying in the cave, and according to

1178
01:15:28.520 --> 01:15:32.000
Mohammad himself, angels came.

1179
01:15:31.840 --> 01:15:32.880
And talked to him.

1180
01:15:34.199 --> 01:15:37.159
Those angels told it that it's very very important for

1181
01:15:37.239 --> 01:15:39.880
him to understand some things, one of which is that

1182
01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:41.079
Jesus was not God.

1183
01:15:41.119 --> 01:15:43.840
Even though he was a great prophet, he was not God.

1184
01:15:44.359 --> 01:15:46.760
And one of which was that there was no such

1185
01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:48.199
thing as a blood atonement for sin.

1186
01:15:52.079 --> 01:15:54.960
Okay, so now he's making claims about Islam. Now, please

1187
01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:57.520
note all the groups that he is siting here. All

1188
01:15:57.560 --> 01:16:00.520
of this existed prior to the Internet. What any of

1189
01:16:00.520 --> 01:16:02.479
this has to do with Internet theologians?

1190
01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:04.079
All right?

1191
01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:20.039
So did angels tell Mohammed there was no blood atonement

1192
01:16:20.560 --> 01:16:25.800
for sin? All right?

1193
01:16:25.880 --> 01:16:32.920
Let's see what we can get here. Okay, yes, all right,

1194
01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:37.399
So this seems to be at least what Islam teaches

1195
01:16:37.439 --> 01:16:42.159
about atonement and sin, a direct forgiveness without sacrifice, denial

1196
01:16:42.199 --> 01:16:44.119
of Jesus, crucifixion and atonement.

1197
01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:46.000
All right.

1198
01:16:47.479 --> 01:16:50.800
Mohammad claimed to have received the Koran through the Angel,

1199
01:16:50.840 --> 01:16:54.359
which would be gebra, so we go through here. Islam

1200
01:16:54.399 --> 01:16:56.880
does reject it. So he seems to be accurate here

1201
01:16:56.920 --> 01:17:00.520
when it comes to Islam at least. To look that

1202
01:17:00.520 --> 01:17:03.199
one up. Now with a Mormon one, I'm more I'm

1203
01:17:03.279 --> 01:17:06.359
much more ready to go without looking things up, only

1204
01:17:06.399 --> 01:17:09.640
because I spent a lot of time with Mormons coming

1205
01:17:09.640 --> 01:17:13.600
to my house and having conversations and discussing many times,

1206
01:17:13.640 --> 01:17:15.720
and then they would leave and then come back, bring

1207
01:17:15.800 --> 01:17:19.199
more people, then bring more people. It would almost become

1208
01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:22.720
a joke when Saturday here at this house downstairs from

1209
01:17:22.760 --> 01:17:26.920
the studio, they literally pulled up with like a small

1210
01:17:27.119 --> 01:17:30.680
van with all these people who came in to ask

1211
01:17:30.800 --> 01:17:33.399
questions and like it. And then in my church in

1212
01:17:33.439 --> 01:17:37.760
Nebraska where I taught Sunday school in Bellevue, Nebraska, Mormon

1213
01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:41.760
elders came to my Sunday school class. So I've had

1214
01:17:41.800 --> 01:17:44.920
lots of interaction with Mormons and with Mormonism, and I

1215
01:17:44.960 --> 01:17:46.760
always ensured that I tried to read the Book of

1216
01:17:46.800 --> 01:17:49.880
Mormon so that I could speak knowledge, because what happened

1217
01:17:49.880 --> 01:17:53.239
to me is one time I was reading Christian books

1218
01:17:53.239 --> 01:17:56.119
about what Mormonism teaches, right, and they made this claim

1219
01:17:56.119 --> 01:17:58.560
and disclaim. So I'm going back and forth with these Mormons,

1220
01:17:58.720 --> 01:18:01.119
and I'm like, oh, I've got you. So I quote,

1221
01:18:01.159 --> 01:18:04.439
I cite something about what Mormonism teaches from a Christian book,

1222
01:18:04.439 --> 01:18:07.760
and They're like, that's fraudulent, that's not true. And I

1223
01:18:07.800 --> 01:18:15.279
felt like an idiot. Now you can say, well, the

1224
01:18:15.319 --> 01:18:17.279
Mormons were lying. Well, after a little bit of research,

1225
01:18:17.319 --> 01:18:19.159
come to find out, well, what the Christian book said

1226
01:18:19.199 --> 01:18:22.199
was not true. This was before the Internet. That was

1227
01:18:22.239 --> 01:18:26.439
a book. And then here was claims about Mormonism that

1228
01:18:28.079 --> 01:18:31.239
not accurate. So if we get so, where did you

1229
01:18:31.279 --> 01:18:33.600
get your information? Is he going to tell me where?

1230
01:18:33.720 --> 01:18:35.920
He says that these internet theologians don't tell you where

1231
01:18:35.920 --> 01:18:37.439
you get your information. Are you going to tell me

1232
01:18:37.479 --> 01:18:42.279
where you get your information? You didn't quote anything from

1233
01:18:42.279 --> 01:18:44.520
the Book of Mormon. You didn't quote anything from Joseph Smith,

1234
01:18:44.520 --> 01:18:50.079
you didn't quote anything from any official LDS doctrine.

1235
01:18:52.800 --> 01:18:55.399
And he began to wonder, and he began to fear

1236
01:18:55.439 --> 01:18:59.399
at first that he was being influenced by demons. His

1237
01:18:59.439 --> 01:19:02.239
own account, he went back and talked to his family,

1238
01:19:02.680 --> 01:19:04.880
and he had an uncle said, oh no, no, those

1239
01:19:04.920 --> 01:19:08.319
aren't Those aren't demons, those are angels.

1240
01:19:09.680 --> 01:19:11.039
And they told him he had been.

1241
01:19:10.960 --> 01:19:16.359
Anointed to return the truth to God's Earth. And out

1242
01:19:16.359 --> 01:19:19.720
of that came Islam. You may have heard of the

1243
01:19:20.560 --> 01:19:22.840
fuss A few years ago. A fellow wrote a book

1244
01:19:22.840 --> 01:19:27.279
called the Satanic Verses, and he was from that region

1245
01:19:27.279 --> 01:19:32.039
of the world. I appreciate your prayers. I will be

1246
01:19:32.159 --> 01:19:34.479
doing a Bible conference in Egypt for eight days week

1247
01:19:34.520 --> 01:19:39.760
after next, actually leave the next Wednesday for there, not

1248
01:19:39.880 --> 01:19:41.039
this week, but the next week.

1249
01:19:42.279 --> 01:19:43.439
It's from that part of the world.

1250
01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:45.840
And he wrote a book on the theory that maybe

1251
01:19:46.399 --> 01:19:50.800
Mohammed got it right the first time, that those really

1252
01:19:50.800 --> 01:19:55.000
were demons, and that thus the verses they gave him

1253
01:19:55.000 --> 01:19:59.359
that became the Quran were Satanic, and they put out

1254
01:19:59.399 --> 01:20:02.119
a fatwa on him, calling for him to be killed.

1255
01:20:03.279 --> 01:20:06.319
And he lived in hiding in France for a number

1256
01:20:06.319 --> 01:20:09.880
of years until relatively recently when he was attacked.

1257
01:20:10.119 --> 01:20:11.439
It was identified and attacked.

1258
01:20:13.760 --> 01:20:18.000
Beloved, believe not every spirit try the spirits where they

1259
01:20:18.039 --> 01:20:21.359
of God? Why because many false prophets are gone out

1260
01:20:21.359 --> 01:20:25.279
into the world. Okay, we have to come to griff

1261
01:20:25.319 --> 01:20:25.520
with this.

1262
01:20:26.119 --> 01:20:26.680
There are.

1263
01:20:28.600 --> 01:20:29.720
Okay, now we'll wait a minute.

1264
01:20:29.720 --> 01:20:30.479
Wait a minute. Okay.

1265
01:20:31.039 --> 01:20:39.159
The book The Satanic Verses, it is a novel. It

1266
01:20:39.199 --> 01:20:43.520
is a complex, multi layered narrative that weaves together the

1267
01:20:43.560 --> 01:20:48.159
lives of two protagonists. All right, gives me their names.

1268
01:20:48.199 --> 01:20:49.680
I'm never going to get their names right, so I'm

1269
01:20:49.720 --> 01:20:53.920
not going to try to pronounce them. These are people

1270
01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:57.239
who survive a terrorist plane explosion and find themselves in

1271
01:20:57.359 --> 01:21:03.840
England after their survival day, undergo surreal transformations, taking on

1272
01:21:04.039 --> 01:21:10.359
angelic characteristics and becoming demonic. The duality allows the author

1273
01:21:10.439 --> 01:21:15.319
to explore themes of identity, faith, and cultural conflict. The

1274
01:21:15.359 --> 01:21:18.880
novel includes dream sequences and subplots, one of which depicts

1275
01:21:18.880 --> 01:21:22.600
a fictionalized account of the early days of Islam. All right.

1276
01:21:23.079 --> 01:21:26.800
One of the novel's controversial aspects is the reference to

1277
01:21:26.840 --> 01:21:31.079
the Islamic tradition of the Satanic verses historical incident where

1278
01:21:31.399 --> 01:21:35.960
the prophet Mohammed is said to have temporarily accepted verses

1279
01:21:36.119 --> 01:21:41.239
praising pagan deities, later retracting them as revelation from Satan

1280
01:21:41.319 --> 01:21:45.920
rather than God. The narrative reimagined and reimagines this episode

1281
01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:49.600
in a fictional and satirical way, questioning the reliability of

1282
01:21:49.600 --> 01:21:53.439
divine revelation and exploring the dynamics of power and faith.

1283
01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:55.760
So there's a lot more going on in the book

1284
01:21:55.800 --> 01:21:59.119
than he kind of necessarily described here. It's a novel.

1285
01:21:59.279 --> 01:22:02.159
It's looking at the is in a satirical way. He's

1286
01:22:02.319 --> 01:22:04.760
stating it in a very straightforward way.

1287
01:22:06.199 --> 01:22:07.840
Man man man.

1288
01:22:09.079 --> 01:22:20.520
Oh okay, And just so that we know that the

1289
01:22:20.600 --> 01:22:24.479
idea within Islam is that Mohammad that basically what happened

1290
01:22:24.880 --> 01:22:29.560
is that within Islamic tradition mentioned by early Islamic historians,

1291
01:22:29.800 --> 01:22:35.960
the prophet Muhammad allegedly received revelation enduring endorsing three goddesses.

1292
01:22:36.600 --> 01:22:40.680
Mohammad later recanted, saying that these verses were inspired by

1293
01:22:40.720 --> 01:22:44.279
Satan and not Allah. This episode is not universally accepted

1294
01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:50.880
in Islamic tradition and is generally rejected by Islamic scholarship.

1295
01:22:51.119 --> 01:22:53.520
So they say, there's all kinds of layers to all

1296
01:22:53.560 --> 01:22:55.319
of that. If you're gonna mention it, you got to

1297
01:22:55.359 --> 01:23:00.119
at least explain this stuff in some reasonable way.

1298
01:23:01.479 --> 01:23:07.479
Lots of false teachers out in the world, and there

1299
01:23:07.479 --> 01:23:11.600
are a lot of false teachers on the Internet, and

1300
01:23:11.680 --> 01:23:14.039
a lot of these teachers you don't know anything about.

1301
01:23:14.880 --> 01:23:18.199
They don't have any ministry dealing with real life, normal

1302
01:23:18.239 --> 01:23:21.359
people that could hold them accountable for what they do.

1303
01:23:21.720 --> 01:23:24.199
They can make up anything they want to make.

1304
01:23:25.800 --> 01:23:28.359
They can make up anything they want to make up.

1305
01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:38.960
Oh boy, look, you draw your own conclusions, pick.

1306
01:23:38.800 --> 01:23:40.239
Up about their past.

1307
01:23:41.079 --> 01:23:45.760
They can invent any qualifications you can think of. They

1308
01:23:45.800 --> 01:23:48.880
can give you any kind of information, but you need

1309
01:23:48.920 --> 01:23:54.439
to know who they are and where did it come from?

1310
01:23:54.520 --> 01:23:56.960
Now, this is a huge issue. You see it all

1311
01:23:56.960 --> 01:23:57.479
over the place.

1312
01:23:57.600 --> 01:24:00.920
Charles tas Russell found the job's witnesses, was teaching Sunday

1313
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:04.159
school and an evangelical church. He started teaching in the

1314
01:24:04.159 --> 01:24:05.000
Sunday school class.

1315
01:24:05.039 --> 01:24:05.720
There was no hell.

1316
01:24:05.960 --> 01:24:08.319
They said, you can't be a Sunday school teacher here anymore.

1317
01:24:08.439 --> 01:24:10.520
He quit going to church. He's sitting at home the

1318
01:24:10.760 --> 01:24:13.720
week after he gets removed to the Sunday school teacher.

1319
01:24:15.840 --> 01:24:18.479
It's just funny, because all of these issues had mentioned

1320
01:24:18.560 --> 01:24:23.479
happens within churches. Maybe he thinks that that I don't know,

1321
01:24:23.560 --> 01:24:25.359
I don't know, I don't even know what to do

1322
01:24:25.439 --> 01:24:30.119
with this. Well, I was excited to hear this. This

1323
01:24:30.199 --> 01:24:32.119
has kind of gone in a direction that I wasn't

1324
01:24:32.119 --> 01:24:35.319
necessarily intending it to go, because it kind of it

1325
01:24:35.479 --> 01:24:39.560
just isn't there an irony to the Hey, those internet teachers,

1326
01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:41.399
you don't know where they get their information. You don't

1327
01:24:41.399 --> 01:24:43.560
know what they're saying is true. Well, he then makes

1328
01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:46.760
an entire claim about Mormonism in the Book of Mormon

1329
01:24:47.039 --> 01:24:50.279
that doesn't appear to be even remotely close to accurate.

1330
01:24:52.039 --> 01:24:53.920
And he didn't tell me where he got his information.

1331
01:24:54.439 --> 01:25:03.199
Is anybody gonna hold him accountable? His sermon is on

1332
01:25:03.239 --> 01:25:07.119
the internet. It's gonna be listening to people all over

1333
01:25:07.159 --> 01:25:09.560
the place. Young converts are gonna hear it, people who

1334
01:25:09.560 --> 01:25:11.199
go to other churches are going to hear it. Who

1335
01:25:11.279 --> 01:25:15.399
then may share this fraudulent information? Does anybody care? Who's

1336
01:25:15.399 --> 01:25:18.520
gonna hold it accountable? Sermon audio gonn hold account Who's

1337
01:25:18.520 --> 01:25:20.560
gonna hold it again? Nobody's gonna hold it accountable, and

1338
01:25:20.560 --> 01:25:23.520
it'll get shared all over the internet. The very thing

1339
01:25:23.600 --> 01:25:27.439
he's complaining about Internet theologians doing, is that not the

1340
01:25:27.479 --> 01:25:29.640
irony of irony? I mean, is that not? I mean,

1341
01:25:29.720 --> 01:25:31.520
is that not? I don't even is it ironic?

1342
01:25:31.600 --> 01:25:33.000
What is it? Absord?

1343
01:25:33.319 --> 01:25:40.720
What is the correct term to utilize? Now, we didn't

1344
01:25:40.760 --> 01:25:43.359
answer a lot of questions about Internet theologians. We didn't

1345
01:25:43.399 --> 01:25:47.119
get because all of his explanations were about things not

1346
01:25:47.159 --> 01:25:49.640
related to the Internet, So we really didn't get a

1347
01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:51.760
good I mean, it's just interesting we're gonna talk about

1348
01:25:51.800 --> 01:25:54.520
Internet theologians by talking about everything other than things that

1349
01:25:54.560 --> 01:25:56.960
happened on the Internet. He's talking about everything that happened

1350
01:25:56.960 --> 01:26:01.159
before the Internet was even existent, which just so I

1351
01:26:04.520 --> 01:26:08.720
give up. Thanks for listening. Everyone, have a great oh Man,

1352
01:26:08.760 --> 01:26:10.840
a great evening. I can't believe it's almost five o'clock.

1353
01:26:11.079 --> 01:26:12.880
I just want to I want to cry now, ladies

1354
01:26:12.880 --> 01:26:14.439
and gentlemen, I'm gonna land on the floor and cry.

1355
01:26:14.600 --> 01:26:16.960
Thanks for listening. God bless