July 1, 2024
The Church Sung What?
A discussion about a song that a church used to close their worship service
A discussion about a song that a church used to close their worship service
WEBVTT
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Looking at our world from a theological
perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast
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making Theology Central. Good morning everyone. It is Monday, July the first,
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twenty twenty four. It is currently
nine twenty seven am Central time.
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I apologize that is completely incorrect.
Right, let me start over and say
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that again. Good morning everyone.
It is Monday, July the first,
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twenty twenty four. It is currently
nine thirty seven am Central time, and
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I'm coming to you live from the
Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene,
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Texas. You see, if I
wasn't live, I could have just
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I could have realized that the time
was wrong and just continued because nobody would
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know what time I was actually recording
it. But when you're live on the
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air and you say it's nine twenty
seven, when it's actually nine thirty,
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people listening to you going he doesn't
know how to tell time. He doesn't
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even know how to tell time.
And I'm supposed to listen to him about
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theology and scripture and Christianity and church
history. I'm not going to listen to
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a thing. He says. He
can't even get the time right. So
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to verify, to just make sure
to double down. Good morning everyone.
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It is Monday, July the first, twenty twenty four, and now it
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is currently nine thirty eight am Central
time, and I'm still coming to you
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live from the Theology Central Studio located
right here in Abilene, Texas. Now,
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what I need you to do is
forget what day it is. I
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need you to forget what time it
is, and I need you to imagine
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the following scenario. Let's say it
was yesterday, which was Sunday, right,
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So it was Sunday morning. You
got in your car, you drove
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to your church. You got out
of your car, you walked into the
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church. You're greeting everyone. Hey, how are you doing, How are
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you doing, how are the kids
doing, how's that job going? Hey?
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Is your grandmother you know, feeling
better? Oh? How's this going?
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Oh it's been hot lately. Okay, you're just doing the normal talk,
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you know, you go around,
shaking hands, talking, you know.
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Oh, how's everyone going? Okay, it's great. Finally you find
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your seat, the pastor welcomes everyone. Good morning everyone, thank you for
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being here at such and such church. We're gonna begin this morning's worship service
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with the following hymn. So take
your hymn book and turn to page,
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stand and sing. And as soon
as everyone starts singing, you know,
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man, people really love this song. People. People are singing it with
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with such you know, they are
singing it strongly, they are singing it
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loudly. They are proud of this
song. They really really love this song.
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And you're like, oh, this
is great. And then all of
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a sudden you like, wait a
minute, Wait a minute, Wait a
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minute. This song was written by
a person who was a Jewish agnostic who
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was also a part of the Freemasons. In fact, his daughter wrote the
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following about him, and I quote, this is a This is from a
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book written by the daughter of this
man who wrote this song that you may
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have sung in church yesterday. In
our scenario, you sung this song in
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church yesterday. This is what she
wrote about her father who wrote this song.
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Are you ready? Here we go
this and I quote all three of
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us would share our father's agnosticism and
sidestep our husband's faiths. If I can
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picture my father, the non believer, it is listening to the reading,
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learning just like me, for he
had long ago forgotten the story. Pleased
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that this is what my mother and
I are doing. His own daughter referred
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to him as a non believer.
His own daughter referred to his agnosticism.
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So he is a Jewish agnostic who
was a freemason. But yet here's your
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church. They're all singing the song
and everyone seems to really love it,
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and they are loud, and you're
like, wait, why why is everyone
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one? So they love this song
so much? And then as you start
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thinking about it, well, this
song is is really less philological and it's
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more patriotic. In fact, this
song is very patriotic. But yet it
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was written by a Jewish agnostic who
was a freemason, who is own daughter
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referred to as a non believer.
So you see, what do I do?
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What do? It's patriotic? Oh, but it's written by someone who's
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an agnostic and a freemason. What
do I do? What do I do?
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What do I do? What do
I do? What do I do?
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What do we do? Should it
bother you? Now? But it's
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so patriotic, it's so great about
America? What do I do? What
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do I do? What do I
do? What do I do? What
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do I do? What do I
do? What do you think? Are
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you okay with it? Does it
bother you. Are you happy with it?
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Are you proud to sing it?
Do you overlook that it's basically it's
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written by a non believer. Does
that even matter to you? Does it
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even matter to you in any way, shape or form. Let me put
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forth this question. What should be
some basic requirements for what is sung in
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church? What should be a basic
requirement for the song sung in your church?
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At the very minimum, should they
be written by a believer or at
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least someone who professes to be a
believer. Would that be a basic requirement?
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I mean, can I mean?
And if you say, well,
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no, it doesn't necessarily have to
be written by a believer. It can
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be written by an unbeliever. Okay, So then where does it? So
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are basically where you're saying, well, as long as the words are okay,
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I don't really care if they're a
believer or an unbeliever. Is that
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the way it works? And should
the song be more thiological? Or is
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it okay that the song is more
patriotic? What is the basic requirements?
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Because I will see some people yell
and scream about what sung in church?
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Right some if some church brings in
a secular song, maybe by the beatles
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or something. No, that's horrible, that's ungodly. Well wait a minute,
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you're singing a song written by a
Jewish agnostic who is a freemason,
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who his daughter, his daughter referred
to him as an unbeliever. I don't
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know, maybe, just maybe we
want to consider this. Now. I'm
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going to tell you the song that
I'm referring to and just a minute,
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well, let me explain how we
got here. For our sermons two point
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zero app sermon challenge for the next
two weeks, what you're supposed to do
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is you only are to listen to
live webcast. That's it. You open
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up the sermon's two point oh app
or you go to bit it out sermonaudio
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dot com, you go to the
webcast section and you only listen to what
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is live. Now, if you
start listening and you're gonna be distracted,
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you can hit follow that broadcaster and
when that message shows up in your feed,
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you can finish listening to it there. But the goal is to try
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to listen only live webcast. That's
what we're gonna do for two weeks.
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And I told you yesterday that I
was a little that once I went live
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to kind of lay out the challenge
that I kind of realized what am I
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doing? What am I doing?
What am I doing? Because We've got
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the fourth of July holiday coming up? And I'm like, oh no.
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And then I'm like, Okay,
well, you know, one of the
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things we're going to see in week
one is we're going to see how much
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patriotism has infiltrated the American Church,
how much patriotism and politics has entered the
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American Church. And I believe,
in many ways corrupted the American Church because
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the church is not supposed to be
patriotic unless you're being patriotic towards the Kingdom
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of God, towards your citizenship in
heaven. Christianity transcend national identity. The
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church is there not to promote love
for a country, unless you're talking about
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the heavenly country. Unless you're talking
about the Kingdom of God. The church
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is not pro a country. It's
pro the Kingdom of God. It's pro
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Heaven. It's pro where my citizenship
is. It's pro Christ. That's what
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the church is supposed to be about. You're not national identity. But yet
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the church in many cases, many
churches having a big American flag and the
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sanctuary I don't understand why church Christians
allow that. Why that has nothing to
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do with Christianity zero, not a
thing to do with Christianity. And if
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you can bring in symbolism into the
sanctuary that doesn't refer to Christianity, then
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why is it that you can allow
that but you won't allow this or this
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or this or this or this.
The sanctuary should be there to point people
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to Christ, not to your country. I don't even think there should be
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an American flag on the property.
There should be if any so called symbolism
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should be pointing to Christ, should
be pointing to the things of God,
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not to anything else. So I
already have an issue with it. But
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I knew this is going to be
a problem. I knew. I was
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like, Oh, this is going
to be this is going to be bad.
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But okay, So yesterday we listened
to a live webcast and we talked
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about do you understand what you read? I think that was an interesting discussion,
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all right, you know, I
mean I kind of went to the
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webcast, the webcast that I looked
at last night. I mean it was
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just kind of I mean, there
was nothing overly dramatic about it, but
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we talked about it. Okay,
it was good. I think the discussion
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was somewhat worthwhile. I always have
a hard time being able to determine if
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what I did was good or bad, but I think it was an interesting
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conversation. Maybe it went a little
long, maybe you think I was a
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little repetitive, but I think overall
was pretty good. So then I woke
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up early this morning and I'm like, okay, let me see what live
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webcast is going on. So I
opened it up. In fact, I
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have it right here. I did
a screenshot of it. It was a
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Baptist church, Stanley Heights Baptist Church. They had nineteen total viewers. I
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think this started around six or seven
in the morning. I don't know exactly
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what time. And the scripture they
had, at least on the kind of
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the thumbs the screenshot that I have, if you continue in my word,
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then you are my disciples, indeed, and you shall know the truth,
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and the truth shall make you free. And I'm like, okay, I
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wonder, okay, that looks interesting. So I hit play and they were
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singing. Now when I at first
I wasn't paying attention because I was thinking,
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well, wait a minute, this
is okay, this must be the
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beginning of the service. So I
got plenty of time. I can,
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you know, start getting ready for
the day, not really paying any attention
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because you know, it's the beginning
of the worship service. I'm going to
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focus primarily on the sermon obviously,
right. So I wasn't paying attention,
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and then all of a sudden,
I realized what they were singing, and
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I'm like, wait a minute.
And then I kind of looked at the
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stage and I'm like, I think
that person's wearing like a military uniform.
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I'm like, oh boy, okay, what is happening? What is happening?
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And then I'm like, wait a
minute. They're singing God Bless America.
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I'm like, what is happening here? What is happening? They're singing
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God Bless America. I'm like,
this can't be happened. I'm like no,
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no, no, no, no, no, no no no no
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no no. Well then that was
their concluding him. They ended their worship
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service by singing God Bless America.
And I'm like, this is this is
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questionable because God Bless America was written
by Irvin Berlin, a Jewish American composer,
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and this was and this during World
War One in nineteen eighteen, and
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later revised in nineteen thirty eight before
World War Two. So it was written
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in nineteen eighteen and then later revised
in nineteen thirty eight. Well, it's
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a patriotic song expressing loved for the
United States. It isn't specifically a Christian
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hymn, even though it is found
and I think I found on a loose
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one site four different hymnals have it
in it. I think at least four.
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Now I would have to continue to
do research. I was looking because
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you know, some hymn books and
some churches have an entire section of patriotic
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songs, which is just insane.
Why are there patriotic songs and a hymnal.
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The hymno is supposed to lead us
to worship and focus on God,
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not on our nation. But okay, I get all confused, all right.
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So, even according to one source, it's not a Christian hymn.
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The lyrics invote God's blessing on America, but they don't adhere to any particular
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religious doctrine. I kind of know
why, considering the man who wrote it
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wasn't agnostic and his own daughter referred
to him as a non believer. Instead,
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the song serves as a heartfelt expression
of patriotism and hope for the nation.
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Notably, it was popularized by singer
Kate Smith and has become an enduring
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part of American culture. It's an
enduring part of American culture. Has nothing
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to do with Christianity. It's patriotism. It's not theology. It's patriotism.
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It's not Christianity. But I looked
up, you know a lot of information
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about you know, the writer of
the song. And I'm not even going
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to refer to it as a hymn, because even though it shows up in
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hymn books, it's a song.
And yeah, I mean he was,
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according to at least I think two
sources, Freemason. He also belonged to
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some lodge he's referred to as Jewish, described as being agnostic. And again
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the quote from his daughter who wrote
a book describing her life and a little
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bit about him. All three of
us would share our father's agnosticism and sidestep
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our husband's faith. If I can
picture my father the non believer, it
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is listening to the reading, learning
just like me, for he had long
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ago forgotten the story. Please that
this is the way my mother and I
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that this is what my mother and
I are doing. Now, he was
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Jewish, he married a woman who
was Catholic, so even if he had
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any connection to Christianity would be Catholicism. So now did you have agnosticism,
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you have freemason, you have Catholicism
and church. This is being sung in
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a Baptist church. Now look at
that. Look that's okay. I'm not
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even gonna argue whether it's right or
wrong to do. So what I'm going
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to argue is then be consistent.
Then don't say, well, we can't
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sing this or we can't sing Why
if you're going to allow a song that
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is put together by an agnostic who
any connection to Christianity was Catholicism, and
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who his own daughter referred to as
a non believer, if that's going to
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be what you allow, then don't
sit there and criticize what other churches seeing.
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Look, my thing here is about
the consistency. I don't look,
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I'm not even if you want to
sing it for your patriotic worship service where
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you worship America, then by all
means, go worship America and commit your
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idolatry. I don't care. I'm
not even gonna I'm not even gonna judge
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you to criticize it. But then
don't turn around and yell at some other
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church because oh, they use contemporary
music or they're using rock music, or
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they stop it. Once you want
you open the door, then you've got
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to let whatever walks through walks through. And you can't then just say,
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well, no, we can do
this, but you can't. We can
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sing this even though it's not even
by a Christian, and if it's not
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even written from a Christian perspective because
the man was an agnostic. If we
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can do that, then you can't
go judge them for having music because you
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don't like that. No, you
can't do that. Once you open the
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door, then all bets are off. All bets are off. So now,
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how many times have you been in
church? Or it gets around the
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fourth of July and the song letter's
like, let's sing God Bless America?
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Or what other patriotic songs are sung? What other patriotic songs are sung in
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your church? Come on? What
other ones? Are you okay with it?
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Who are they written by? Again, I'm worried about I'm focusing on
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the case people are gonna misinterpret this. Right, you want to sing it,
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do whatever you want. I don't
care. The issue is, then
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don't start pointing your fingers at everyone
else because well I don't like that they
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do. You know what church produced
that song? That songs from this church
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and I don't agree with their theology. Well, at least it's a church
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that believes in and God and Jesus. Okay, right, you may think
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the church is, so don't be
condemning them because they're singing a song from
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a church that you disagree with theologically, But at least it's Christian versus you
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singing a song written by someone who
wasn't even a Christian. Like, come
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on, now, don't you see
the inconsistency there? So my thing is,
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if you're going to do this,
then by all means you gotta let
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everyone else. Then you can't really
regulate it anymore. And then this gets
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down to the regulative and normative principle. We've talked about those principles so many
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times. How churches uprate. Many
churches say they hold to the regulative principle,
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then they'll slide right over to the
normative principle. And then some people
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are in the normative principle, they'll
slide back over to the regulative principle.
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I think ultimately churches do exactly what
they want to do, or they'll do
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exactly what the people will allow them
to do. Now, I hope,
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I wish when when they upload the
message, I'm assuming it's just going to
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be the sermon. I don't know
if they'll maybe they'll maybe when we listen
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to the actual message, we'll get
some idea of what was going on that
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I know what was happening in the
church because I saw the video. It
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was some kind of I don't know
what it was. Who knows what it
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was. Maybe we'll get a better
idea of exactly what was going on.
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But the point is whether whatever was
going on there really is irrelevant. It's
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not even about that church. It's
just about the issue that we know is
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happening will be happening between now mh
and next Sunday, because because we're going
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to have the fourth of July week, the fourth of July holiday, which
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is I believe what Thursday, so
you know, Wednesday night services are going
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to be probably heavily patriotic, and
then Sunday probably we'll still have some patriotism
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left over if not go full blown
patriotic And where where's what? What's the
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guiding principle here is it? Does
theology trump patriotism or does patriotism trump theology?
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What? What is the driving force? Now? I think it should
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be theology and not patriotism. I
think when we walk into a church,
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it's not about America. It's not
about Canada, it's not about Russia,
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it's not about whatever country. It's
not about China. It's it's it's our
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national identity is irrelevant. It's about
worshiping Christ. So I obviously am critical
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of the patriotism in church, but
I'm more what I'm more, and I'm
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really trying to drive this point home. My main issue is just the inconsistency.
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If a church does certain things,
all pastors will lose their mind.
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Can that's worldly, that has no
place in the church. That's ungodly.
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How they're turning the church into a
circus and it's flushly and it's worldly.
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No, no, no. And
the next thing you know, we got
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American flags all over the place,
or waving America. I'm proud to be
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an America. Next thing you know, it's all, and he's like,
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wait a minute, wait a minute, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
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You're condemning that you're bringing all this
stuff in that has no place in
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the church. There's no scripture that
would even in any way indicate that's what
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you're supposed to be doing. Now
again, I'm relying more on the regulative
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principle with the normative principle, like, well, unless you can give me
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a scripture that actually condemns it,
And I think maybe I don't know if
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I can give one that would specifically
condemn it, but I think there's some
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principles that would guide what we do. But okay, I would probably slide
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back over into a regulative principle where
I can only do in the church what
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is clearly commanded in scripture. Are
clearly giving an example of That's why my
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church, you know, we didn't
do all the stuff most churches do.
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There was no fun, food,
games, activities, there was none that
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we came to church to Sunday school
with an hour of teaching Sunday morning,
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an hour of teaching Wednesday Sunday night, an hour of teaching Wednesday night,
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an hour of teaching. That's it. There was no activities. There was
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no events. That's what we did. And if anybody wanted any other kind
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of event, they could plan it
on their own. And it happened outside
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of the church, not sanctioned by
the church or or sponsored or funded by
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the church, because the church's job
is the teaching of God's word, not
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all of this other nonsense. But
that's because I hold to a strong,
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strong, strong, strong, strong
belief in the regulative principle. But when
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it comes to what is sung,
if a song is patriotic, then it
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no longer matters if the person was
even a believer, doesn't even matter if
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the person was agnostic or connected to
possible Catholicism, or as his own daughter
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referred to him as, as a
non believer. None of that he was
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a freemason, None of that even
matters. I mean, if it doesn't
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matter, that's okay. Like I'm
cool with you, right, Like I
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mean, I disagree, and I
would not go to your church doing all
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that patriotic stuff. I would get
up and walk out, right. I
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wouldn't have anything to do with it. But that's cool that you do,
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right, that's awesome you do you. But my thing would be if you're
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going to do that. You can't
really criticize anybody else for what they do.
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So what do you think? Come
on, what do you think what
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should be a basic requirement for what
is sung in church? I don't even
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want to give you. I want
you to tell me what you think the
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basic requirement should be. Where's that
line? Where is the line of what
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can or cannot be sung? Some
people will focus on the musical style,
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right, cannot have a drum,
cannot have certain backb The emphasis cannot be
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on the two and four. It
has to be on the one and three.
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We can get it, you know. Musical structure. It can't be
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too loud, It can't be this
instrument. Okay, it can't be this.
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Some will say, well, it
can't be a secular song, it
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has to be a really well but
wait a minute, it isn't God Bless
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America? Is that really not?
Is that a religious song or is it
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more of a secular song? Since
it was put it was put together,
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it was more about patriotism than it
was God. It utilized some of the
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religious fervor of the time, but
it was written by someone who is a
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non believer. So like, yeah, I don't you know, Oh,
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so do we have to classify that
as secular? Like we could get into
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a debate, so like, but
what would be the basic requirements? All
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I'm saying is whatever you set up
is the requirement, then you have to
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follow it, even if that excludes
songs from your own worship service. You
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can't then make an allowance for this
for your worship service where you're not making
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an allowance for other people. So
what are the basic requirements? And how
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do you handle it? If your
church has a big patriotic whatever this coming
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week up to next till this coming
Sunday, how do you handle it?
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Are you just like, hey,
that's just what we do. Do you
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draw a line? Do you say
nope? Do you say I'm just gonna
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skip you guys do your thing?
Or what do you do? Do you
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love it? Some of you may
love it. You may show up carrying
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fifteen American flags and all your kids
wearing an American flag T shirt and you're
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like Erica, American, American,
American, American, America, America,
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America, and you you love it, and that's fine, just just got
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it. All I'm saying is you
gotta be consistent. You gotta be consistent.
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And I think once you open that
door, it's really hard than to
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tell everyone else that they they they
can't do that. Now, what would
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be interesting? Now if I if
I had the I had a large church,
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and if I had like a national
platform. I know what I'm gonna
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say. I know this is probably
my sinful, fleshly nature, my rebellious
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nature. But if I had like
one of the like a big webcast or
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a big television show where you know
everyone's going to see my church service,
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you know, all of them that
they'll have their sanctuaries decked out in American
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flags and it'll be America, America
America. Right. I would love if
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I had that? Would I would
call the church together and like in privates
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area, guys, we're gonna do
a social experiment a right, since everyone
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allows all of this other stuff,
in this pro patriotism stuff, we're just
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gonna see what the reaction is gonna
be. So next Sunday we're gonna have
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the entire church decked out in the
Chinese flag. It's gonna be all pro
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China. We're gonna see God blessed
China. We're going to rewrite the words
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so God Bless America to God blessed
China. It's gonna be China's the best
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China, China, China, China, China, Thank you Lord for the
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for China. And we're just gonna
go all in on China and we're gonna
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find out how people will react.
I wonder how people would react. What
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do you think. I My feelings
is it would be absolute outrage. They
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would be furious. And I'm like, why if you can make it about
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God bless America, I can't make
it about God blessed China. Can I?
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I can make it God Bless Syria, God Bless Iran, God bless
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Iraq? Right, you can't,
God bless Saudi Arabia? Come on,
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right? Can I just make it
about any country? Now? We sing
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songs of praise to those countries.
Basically, I know what people say,
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you just need to get out of
this country. You know, considering I
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served, you know, in the
United States military for my in my entire
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adult life, and I now disabled
vet because of what happened in to him
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in the military, I think maybe
you should just back off and stop telling
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me I need to leave the country. I always I hate that if I
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say anything negative like dot no,
just leave the doors open for you.
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Okay, Well, I think I
uh, you know, I think I
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have earned my right to stay right
here. I think I've earned my right.
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Okay. I served in the United
States Military. Okay, I think
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I earned my right. It wasn't
a four year I would have been into
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twenty years and made it, you
know what, eighteen nineteen active duty into
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what happened, and then you know, you almost die. You kind of
369
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got no choice, right. So, I don't know. I know it's
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a controversial thing, and I know
that that's not what the webcast was.
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Well, I take it back,
I don't know what the webcast was about.
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It may have been about patriotism.
It may have been all patriotism,
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patriotism all day, every day.
It may have been patriotism, patriotism,
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patriotism. I could be horribly wrong. I don't know so, but that's
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why I'm saying I'm not going to
make it about them. They provided me
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the song. I looked up all
the facts about the song and go,
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well, they're not the And then
I looked up a couple of websites about
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keeping track of how many hymn how
many hymn books. This song appears,
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and I think I think at least
one source had it at least four different
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hymn books, probably more. And
a lot of times what people do when
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they their patriotic services, they'll just
put the words up on the screen,
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right, and they want to have
it a hymn book, and like,
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hey, just look to the screen
and you know it. You love it.
384
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It's about our country. Everyone stand
and sing loud and proud because we
385
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are here this morning, Oh no, to worship God. But we're gonna
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really, it's gonna sound like we're
really here to exalt our idol, our
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national identity. So I know it's
gonna be hard for some of you,
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but forget patriotism. That's why I
started it this way. Forget patriotism for
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a moment, just those basic facts. You're in church, they're singing a
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song, and immediately realize, we
wait a minute. This song's not even
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written by a believer. It's written
by a Jewish agnostic. His own daughter
392
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refer to him as a non believer. He married a Catholic, so if
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he has any connection to Christianity,
it's Catholicism. And he was also a
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freemason. Should any of that even
matter? Or or now some people say
395
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that you're being nitpicky, you're straining
out a nat what you're swallowing a camel
396
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kind of concept. Do you think
that's do you think that's being unreasonable?
397
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Because I've seen some major criticism of
songs by Bethel Church, right song criticism
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about songs from Hillsong. I can
go through what Passion Church. I think,
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Uh, there's only four or five
mega churches really that kind of control
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most of the music sung in many
modern day churches. I've heard. I've
401
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heard all kinds of criticism about that. I've heard I've seen churches yell and
402
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scream about churches having a more contemporary
service and they yell and scream about that,
403
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or they're bringing in certain music from
certain artists and they will yell and
404
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scream about that. And it's like, well, wait a minute, where
405
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where what? What is the issue
is? Like what I just don't understand
406
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where the line is. It just
seems like, well the line, you
407
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:56.079
know what the line is is people
sing what they want to sing, and
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they can always justify what they sing
while condemning what other people seeing and not
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00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:06.039
following any agreed upon requirements. So
what are the requirements. I would love
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00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:08.400
to get your thoughts. You can
email me News I F at yahoo dot
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00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:17.160
com. That's news I F at
yahoo dot com. It's July the first,
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00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.640
the whole week, the whole next
two weeks. It's all about live
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00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:27.160
webcast on the Sermon's two point zero
app. I think I see where we're
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00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:32.200
going to be. What's going to
be happening this week. We're going to
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00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:37.200
see how much patriotism has entered into
the American church. I think in that
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00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:41.160
sense, it's going to be a
fascinating experiment, even though that wasn't my
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00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:44.880
goal. My goal was just like, hey, you know what, let's
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00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.119
spend the week looking at all the
webcasts. But I think we're going to
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00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:49.960
see what the webcast. In fact, because many of them are video,
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00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:55.079
you're going to even be able to
see how the church is decorated. And
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00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:56.880
it's not going to be based off
liturgy. It's not going to be based
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00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:01.759
off the liturgical calendar. It's going
to be based off well, patriotism,
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00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:07.920
and you'll have to decide how you
feel about it. This is not about
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00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:14.400
you liking America or even loving America. This is about what the church is
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00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:17.440
supposed to be and what the church
is supposed to do, and that's being
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00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:23.119
consistent and what we say the standards
are. Now, we're inconsistent in every
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00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:28.359
area of our lives. So I'm
not surprised that we're inconsistent in how we
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00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:32.079
do church because inconsistency is a part
of who we are because of our sinful
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00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:36.559
natures. But it is something that
we have to look at. I got
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00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:38.559
to look at all the inconsistency in
my own life, but we also have
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00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:45.079
to look at the inconsistency and how
it manifests itself and how churches do things.
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00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:49.920
Now you get I'm gonna hopefully we'll
get a lot of just feedback when
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00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:52.720
you're looking at the webcast, what
do you see? What do you?
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00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:57.640
What do you? How much?
It's not even about criticizing again, I
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00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:01.799
think people are going to misinterpret.
It's about just making an acknowledgment. Man,
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00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:05.759
Patriotism is all over the place.
Now, how is it handled?
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00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:08.319
Can you can you have a very
patriotic service, but to be handled in
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00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:14.559
a much more theologically sound way.
Or and then when you're bringing in some
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00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:17.240
of these patriotic songs, are you
even does it no longer matter? Like
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00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:23.839
I mean, there's just so many
questions here. But that was my That
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00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:29.960
was my experience this morning with the
first and I can't even really count that
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00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.599
as a webcast I listened to because
all I got was the closing hymn,
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But it just caught me off guard. It was like, wait, what
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00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:39.680
is happening? Because immediately I'm like, I know enough about this song and
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00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:46.160
I know they should raise some questions. News I F Yahoo dot com.
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00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:52.920
That's news. I F Yahoo dot
com. News I f at yahoo dot
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00:33:52.319 --> 00:34:01.599
com. Thanks for listening, everyone, Have a great day. God bless
1
00:00:02.759 --> 00:00:08.359
Looking at our world from a theological
perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast
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00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:16.399
making Theology Central. Good morning everyone. It is Monday, July the first,
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00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:21.359
twenty twenty four. It is currently
nine twenty seven am Central time.
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00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:27.719
I apologize that is completely incorrect.
Right, let me start over and say
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00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:31.679
that again. Good morning everyone.
It is Monday, July the first,
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00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:37.679
twenty twenty four. It is currently
nine thirty seven am Central time, and
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00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:43.159
I'm coming to you live from the
Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene,
8
00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:46.560
Texas. You see, if I
wasn't live, I could have just
9
00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:51.159
I could have realized that the time
was wrong and just continued because nobody would
10
00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:54.200
know what time I was actually recording
it. But when you're live on the
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00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:59.840
air and you say it's nine twenty
seven, when it's actually nine thirty,
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00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:03.959
people listening to you going he doesn't
know how to tell time. He doesn't
13
00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:08.200
even know how to tell time.
And I'm supposed to listen to him about
14
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theology and scripture and Christianity and church
history. I'm not going to listen to
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a thing. He says. He
can't even get the time right. So
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to verify, to just make sure
to double down. Good morning everyone.
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It is Monday, July the first, twenty twenty four, and now it
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is currently nine thirty eight am Central
time, and I'm still coming to you
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live from the Theology Central Studio located
right here in Abilene, Texas. Now,
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00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:44.120
what I need you to do is
forget what day it is. I
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need you to forget what time it
is, and I need you to imagine
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the following scenario. Let's say it
was yesterday, which was Sunday, right,
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So it was Sunday morning. You
got in your car, you drove
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to your church. You got out
of your car, you walked into the
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church. You're greeting everyone. Hey, how are you doing, How are
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you doing, how are the kids
doing, how's that job going? Hey?
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Is your grandmother you know, feeling
better? Oh? How's this going?
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Oh it's been hot lately. Okay, you're just doing the normal talk,
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you know, you go around,
shaking hands, talking, you know.
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Oh, how's everyone going? Okay, it's great. Finally you find
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your seat, the pastor welcomes everyone. Good morning everyone, thank you for
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being here at such and such church. We're gonna begin this morning's worship service
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with the following hymn. So take
your hymn book and turn to page,
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stand and sing. And as soon
as everyone starts singing, you know,
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man, people really love this song. People. People are singing it with
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with such you know, they are
singing it strongly, they are singing it
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loudly. They are proud of this
song. They really really love this song.
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And you're like, oh, this
is great. And then all of
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a sudden you like, wait a
minute, Wait a minute, Wait a
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minute. This song was written by
a person who was a Jewish agnostic who
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was also a part of the Freemasons. In fact, his daughter wrote the
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following about him, and I quote, this is a This is from a
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book written by the daughter of this
man who wrote this song that you may
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have sung in church yesterday. In
our scenario, you sung this song in
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church yesterday. This is what she
wrote about her father who wrote this song.
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Are you ready? Here we go
this and I quote all three of
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us would share our father's agnosticism and
sidestep our husband's faiths. If I can
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picture my father, the non believer, it is listening to the reading,
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learning just like me, for he
had long ago forgotten the story. Pleased
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that this is what my mother and
I are doing. His own daughter referred
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to him as a non believer.
His own daughter referred to his agnosticism.
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So he is a Jewish agnostic who
was a freemason. But yet here's your
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church. They're all singing the song
and everyone seems to really love it,
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and they are loud, and you're
like, wait, why why is everyone
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one? So they love this song
so much? And then as you start
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thinking about it, well, this
song is is really less philological and it's
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more patriotic. In fact, this
song is very patriotic. But yet it
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was written by a Jewish agnostic who
was a freemason, who is own daughter
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referred to as a non believer.
So you see, what do I do?
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What do? It's patriotic? Oh, but it's written by someone who's
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an agnostic and a freemason. What
do I do? What do I do?
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What do I do? What do
I do? What do I do?
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What do we do? Should it
bother you? Now? But it's
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so patriotic, it's so great about
America? What do I do? What
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do I do? What do I
do? What do I do? What
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do I do? What do I
do? What do you think? Are
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you okay with it? Does it
bother you. Are you happy with it?
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Are you proud to sing it?
Do you overlook that it's basically it's
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written by a non believer. Does
that even matter to you? Does it
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even matter to you in any way, shape or form. Let me put
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forth this question. What should be
some basic requirements for what is sung in
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church? What should be a basic
requirement for the song sung in your church?
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At the very minimum, should they
be written by a believer or at
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least someone who professes to be a
believer. Would that be a basic requirement?
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I mean, can I mean?
And if you say, well,
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no, it doesn't necessarily have to
be written by a believer. It can
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be written by an unbeliever. Okay, So then where does it? So
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are basically where you're saying, well, as long as the words are okay,
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I don't really care if they're a
believer or an unbeliever. Is that
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the way it works? And should
the song be more thiological? Or is
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it okay that the song is more
patriotic? What is the basic requirements?
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Because I will see some people yell
and scream about what sung in church?
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Right some if some church brings in
a secular song, maybe by the beatles
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or something. No, that's horrible, that's ungodly. Well wait a minute,
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you're singing a song written by a
Jewish agnostic who is a freemason,
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who his daughter, his daughter referred
to him as an unbeliever. I don't
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know, maybe, just maybe we
want to consider this. Now. I'm
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going to tell you the song that
I'm referring to and just a minute,
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well, let me explain how we
got here. For our sermons two point
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zero app sermon challenge for the next
two weeks, what you're supposed to do
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is you only are to listen to
live webcast. That's it. You open
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up the sermon's two point oh app
or you go to bit it out sermonaudio
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dot com, you go to the
webcast section and you only listen to what
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is live. Now, if you
start listening and you're gonna be distracted,
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you can hit follow that broadcaster and
when that message shows up in your feed,
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you can finish listening to it there. But the goal is to try
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to listen only live webcast. That's
what we're gonna do for two weeks.
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And I told you yesterday that I
was a little that once I went live
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to kind of lay out the challenge
that I kind of realized what am I
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doing? What am I doing?
What am I doing? Because We've got
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the fourth of July holiday coming up? And I'm like, oh no.
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And then I'm like, Okay,
well, you know, one of the
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things we're going to see in week
one is we're going to see how much
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patriotism has infiltrated the American Church,
how much patriotism and politics has entered the
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American Church. And I believe,
in many ways corrupted the American Church because
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the church is not supposed to be
patriotic unless you're being patriotic towards the Kingdom
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of God, towards your citizenship in
heaven. Christianity transcend national identity. The
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church is there not to promote love
for a country, unless you're talking about
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the heavenly country. Unless you're talking
about the Kingdom of God. The church
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is not pro a country. It's
pro the Kingdom of God. It's pro
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Heaven. It's pro where my citizenship
is. It's pro Christ. That's what
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the church is supposed to be about. You're not national identity. But yet
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the church in many cases, many
churches having a big American flag and the
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sanctuary I don't understand why church Christians
allow that. Why that has nothing to
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do with Christianity zero, not a
thing to do with Christianity. And if
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you can bring in symbolism into the
sanctuary that doesn't refer to Christianity, then
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why is it that you can allow
that but you won't allow this or this
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or this or this or this.
The sanctuary should be there to point people
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to Christ, not to your country. I don't even think there should be
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an American flag on the property.
There should be if any so called symbolism
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should be pointing to Christ, should
be pointing to the things of God,
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not to anything else. So I
already have an issue with it. But
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I knew this is going to be
a problem. I knew. I was
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like, Oh, this is going
to be this is going to be bad.
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But okay, So yesterday we listened
to a live webcast and we talked
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about do you understand what you read? I think that was an interesting discussion,
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all right, you know, I
mean I kind of went to the
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webcast, the webcast that I looked
at last night. I mean it was
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just kind of I mean, there
was nothing overly dramatic about it, but
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we talked about it. Okay,
it was good. I think the discussion
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was somewhat worthwhile. I always have
a hard time being able to determine if
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what I did was good or bad, but I think it was an interesting
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00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:03.759
conversation. Maybe it went a little
long, maybe you think I was a
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00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:07.519
little repetitive, but I think overall
was pretty good. So then I woke
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up early this morning and I'm like, okay, let me see what live
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webcast is going on. So I
opened it up. In fact, I
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00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:22.080
have it right here. I did
a screenshot of it. It was a
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Baptist church, Stanley Heights Baptist Church. They had nineteen total viewers. I
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think this started around six or seven
in the morning. I don't know exactly
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what time. And the scripture they
had, at least on the kind of
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the thumbs the screenshot that I have, if you continue in my word,
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then you are my disciples, indeed, and you shall know the truth,
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and the truth shall make you free. And I'm like, okay, I
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00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:54.960
wonder, okay, that looks interesting. So I hit play and they were
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singing. Now when I at first
I wasn't paying attention because I was thinking,
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well, wait a minute, this
is okay, this must be the
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00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:05.200
beginning of the service. So I
got plenty of time. I can,
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00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:07.279
you know, start getting ready for
the day, not really paying any attention
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because you know, it's the beginning
of the worship service. I'm going to
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00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:16.759
focus primarily on the sermon obviously,
right. So I wasn't paying attention,
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00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:18.039
and then all of a sudden,
I realized what they were singing, and
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00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:20.919
I'm like, wait a minute.
And then I kind of looked at the
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stage and I'm like, I think
that person's wearing like a military uniform.
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I'm like, oh boy, okay, what is happening? What is happening?
155
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And then I'm like, wait a
minute. They're singing God Bless America.
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00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:41.000
I'm like, what is happening here? What is happening? They're singing
157
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God Bless America. I'm like,
this can't be happened. I'm like no,
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00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:46.519
no, no, no, no, no, no no no no
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00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:52.480
no no. Well then that was
their concluding him. They ended their worship
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00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:56.879
service by singing God Bless America.
And I'm like, this is this is
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00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:05.600
questionable because God Bless America was written
by Irvin Berlin, a Jewish American composer,
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00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.440
and this was and this during World
War One in nineteen eighteen, and
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later revised in nineteen thirty eight before
World War Two. So it was written
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in nineteen eighteen and then later revised
in nineteen thirty eight. Well, it's
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a patriotic song expressing loved for the
United States. It isn't specifically a Christian
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hymn, even though it is found
and I think I found on a loose
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one site four different hymnals have it
in it. I think at least four.
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Now I would have to continue to
do research. I was looking because
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you know, some hymn books and
some churches have an entire section of patriotic
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songs, which is just insane.
Why are there patriotic songs and a hymnal.
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The hymno is supposed to lead us
to worship and focus on God,
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not on our nation. But okay, I get all confused, all right.
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So, even according to one source, it's not a Christian hymn.
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The lyrics invote God's blessing on America, but they don't adhere to any particular
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religious doctrine. I kind of know
why, considering the man who wrote it
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wasn't agnostic and his own daughter referred
to him as a non believer. Instead,
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the song serves as a heartfelt expression
of patriotism and hope for the nation.
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Notably, it was popularized by singer
Kate Smith and has become an enduring
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part of American culture. It's an
enduring part of American culture. Has nothing
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to do with Christianity. It's patriotism. It's not theology. It's patriotism.
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It's not Christianity. But I looked
up, you know a lot of information
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about you know, the writer of
the song. And I'm not even going
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to refer to it as a hymn, because even though it shows up in
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hymn books, it's a song.
And yeah, I mean he was,
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according to at least I think two
sources, Freemason. He also belonged to
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some lodge he's referred to as Jewish, described as being agnostic. And again
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the quote from his daughter who wrote
a book describing her life and a little
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bit about him. All three of
us would share our father's agnosticism and sidestep
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our husband's faith. If I can
picture my father the non believer, it
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is listening to the reading, learning
just like me, for he had long
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ago forgotten the story. Please that
this is the way my mother and I
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that this is what my mother and
I are doing. Now, he was
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Jewish, he married a woman who
was Catholic, so even if he had
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any connection to Christianity would be Catholicism. So now did you have agnosticism,
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you have freemason, you have Catholicism
and church. This is being sung in
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a Baptist church. Now look at
that. Look that's okay. I'm not
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even gonna argue whether it's right or
wrong to do. So what I'm going
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to argue is then be consistent.
Then don't say, well, we can't
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sing this or we can't sing Why
if you're going to allow a song that
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is put together by an agnostic who
any connection to Christianity was Catholicism, and
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who his own daughter referred to as
a non believer, if that's going to
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be what you allow, then don't
sit there and criticize what other churches seeing.
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Look, my thing here is about
the consistency. I don't look,
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I'm not even if you want to
sing it for your patriotic worship service where
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you worship America, then by all
means, go worship America and commit your
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idolatry. I don't care. I'm
not even gonna I'm not even gonna judge
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you to criticize it. But then
don't turn around and yell at some other
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church because oh, they use contemporary
music or they're using rock music, or
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they stop it. Once you want
you open the door, then you've got
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to let whatever walks through walks through. And you can't then just say,
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well, no, we can do
this, but you can't. We can
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sing this even though it's not even
by a Christian, and if it's not
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even written from a Christian perspective because
the man was an agnostic. If we
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can do that, then you can't
go judge them for having music because you
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don't like that. No, you
can't do that. Once you open the
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door, then all bets are off. All bets are off. So now,
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how many times have you been in
church? Or it gets around the
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fourth of July and the song letter's
like, let's sing God Bless America?
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Or what other patriotic songs are sung? What other patriotic songs are sung in
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your church? Come on? What
other ones? Are you okay with it?
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Who are they written by? Again, I'm worried about I'm focusing on
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the case people are gonna misinterpret this. Right, you want to sing it,
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do whatever you want. I don't
care. The issue is, then
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don't start pointing your fingers at everyone
else because well I don't like that they
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do. You know what church produced
that song? That songs from this church
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and I don't agree with their theology. Well, at least it's a church
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that believes in and God and Jesus. Okay, right, you may think
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the church is, so don't be
condemning them because they're singing a song from
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a church that you disagree with theologically, But at least it's Christian versus you
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singing a song written by someone who
wasn't even a Christian. Like, come
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on, now, don't you see
the inconsistency there? So my thing is,
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if you're going to do this,
then by all means you gotta let
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everyone else. Then you can't really
regulate it anymore. And then this gets
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down to the regulative and normative principle. We've talked about those principles so many
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times. How churches uprate. Many
churches say they hold to the regulative principle,
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then they'll slide right over to the
normative principle. And then some people
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are in the normative principle, they'll
slide back over to the regulative principle.
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I think ultimately churches do exactly what
they want to do, or they'll do
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exactly what the people will allow them
to do. Now, I hope,
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I wish when when they upload the
message, I'm assuming it's just going to
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be the sermon. I don't know
if they'll maybe they'll maybe when we listen
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to the actual message, we'll get
some idea of what was going on that
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I know what was happening in the
church because I saw the video. It
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was some kind of I don't know
what it was. Who knows what it
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was. Maybe we'll get a better
idea of exactly what was going on.
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But the point is whether whatever was
going on there really is irrelevant. It's
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not even about that church. It's
just about the issue that we know is
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happening will be happening between now mh
and next Sunday, because because we're going
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to have the fourth of July week, the fourth of July holiday, which
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is I believe what Thursday, so
you know, Wednesday night services are going
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to be probably heavily patriotic, and
then Sunday probably we'll still have some patriotism
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left over if not go full blown
patriotic And where where's what? What's the
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guiding principle here is it? Does
theology trump patriotism or does patriotism trump theology?
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What? What is the driving force? Now? I think it should
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be theology and not patriotism. I
think when we walk into a church,
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it's not about America. It's not
about Canada, it's not about Russia,
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it's not about whatever country. It's
not about China. It's it's it's our
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national identity is irrelevant. It's about
worshiping Christ. So I obviously am critical
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of the patriotism in church, but
I'm more what I'm more, and I'm
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really trying to drive this point home. My main issue is just the inconsistency.
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If a church does certain things,
all pastors will lose their mind.
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Can that's worldly, that has no
place in the church. That's ungodly.
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How they're turning the church into a
circus and it's flushly and it's worldly.
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No, no, no. And
the next thing you know, we got
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American flags all over the place,
or waving America. I'm proud to be
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an America. Next thing you know, it's all, and he's like,
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wait a minute, wait a minute, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
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You're condemning that you're bringing all this
stuff in that has no place in
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the church. There's no scripture that
would even in any way indicate that's what
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you're supposed to be doing. Now
again, I'm relying more on the regulative
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principle with the normative principle, like, well, unless you can give me
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a scripture that actually condemns it,
And I think maybe I don't know if
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I can give one that would specifically
condemn it, but I think there's some
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principles that would guide what we do. But okay, I would probably slide
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back over into a regulative principle where
I can only do in the church what
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is clearly commanded in scripture. Are
clearly giving an example of That's why my
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church, you know, we didn't
do all the stuff most churches do.
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There was no fun, food,
games, activities, there was none that
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we came to church to Sunday school
with an hour of teaching Sunday morning,
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an hour of teaching Wednesday Sunday night, an hour of teaching Wednesday night,
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an hour of teaching. That's it. There was no activities. There was
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no events. That's what we did. And if anybody wanted any other kind
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of event, they could plan it
on their own. And it happened outside
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of the church, not sanctioned by
the church or or sponsored or funded by
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the church, because the church's job
is the teaching of God's word, not
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all of this other nonsense. But
that's because I hold to a strong,
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strong, strong, strong, strong
belief in the regulative principle. But when
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it comes to what is sung,
if a song is patriotic, then it
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no longer matters if the person was
even a believer, doesn't even matter if
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the person was agnostic or connected to
possible Catholicism, or as his own daughter
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referred to him as, as a
non believer. None of that he was
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a freemason, None of that even
matters. I mean, if it doesn't
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matter, that's okay. Like I'm
cool with you, right, Like I
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mean, I disagree, and I
would not go to your church doing all
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that patriotic stuff. I would get
up and walk out, right. I
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wouldn't have anything to do with it. But that's cool that you do,
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right, that's awesome you do you. But my thing would be if you're
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going to do that. You can't
really criticize anybody else for what they do.
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So what do you think? Come
on, what do you think what
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should be a basic requirement for what
is sung in church? I don't even
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want to give you. I want
you to tell me what you think the
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basic requirement should be. Where's that
line? Where is the line of what
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can or cannot be sung? Some
people will focus on the musical style,
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right, cannot have a drum,
cannot have certain backb The emphasis cannot be
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on the two and four. It
has to be on the one and three.
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We can get it, you know. Musical structure. It can't be
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too loud, It can't be this
instrument. Okay, it can't be this.
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Some will say, well, it
can't be a secular song, it
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has to be a really well but
wait a minute, it isn't God Bless
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America? Is that really not?
Is that a religious song or is it
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more of a secular song? Since
it was put it was put together,
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it was more about patriotism than it
was God. It utilized some of the
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religious fervor of the time, but
it was written by someone who is a
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non believer. So like, yeah, I don't you know, Oh,
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so do we have to classify that
as secular? Like we could get into
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a debate, so like, but
what would be the basic requirements? All
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I'm saying is whatever you set up
is the requirement, then you have to
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follow it, even if that excludes
songs from your own worship service. You
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can't then make an allowance for this
for your worship service where you're not making
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an allowance for other people. So
what are the basic requirements? And how
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do you handle it? If your
church has a big patriotic whatever this coming
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week up to next till this coming
Sunday, how do you handle it?
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Are you just like, hey,
that's just what we do. Do you
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draw a line? Do you say
nope? Do you say I'm just gonna
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skip you guys do your thing?
Or what do you do? Do you
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love it? Some of you may
love it. You may show up carrying
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fifteen American flags and all your kids
wearing an American flag T shirt and you're
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like Erica, American, American,
American, American, America, America,
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America, and you you love it, and that's fine, just just got
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it. All I'm saying is you
gotta be consistent. You gotta be consistent.
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And I think once you open that
door, it's really hard than to
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tell everyone else that they they they
can't do that. Now, what would
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be interesting? Now if I if
I had the I had a large church,
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and if I had like a national
platform. I know what I'm gonna
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say. I know this is probably
my sinful, fleshly nature, my rebellious
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nature. But if I had like
one of the like a big webcast or
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a big television show where you know
everyone's going to see my church service,
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you know, all of them that
they'll have their sanctuaries decked out in American
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flags and it'll be America, America
America. Right. I would love if
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I had that? Would I would
call the church together and like in privates
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area, guys, we're gonna do
a social experiment a right, since everyone
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allows all of this other stuff,
in this pro patriotism stuff, we're just
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gonna see what the reaction is gonna
be. So next Sunday we're gonna have
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the entire church decked out in the
Chinese flag. It's gonna be all pro
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China. We're gonna see God blessed
China. We're going to rewrite the words
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so God Bless America to God blessed
China. It's gonna be China's the best
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China, China, China, China, China, Thank you Lord for the
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for China. And we're just gonna
go all in on China and we're gonna
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find out how people will react.
I wonder how people would react. What
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do you think. I My feelings
is it would be absolute outrage. They
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would be furious. And I'm like, why if you can make it about
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God bless America, I can't make
it about God blessed China. Can I?
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I can make it God Bless Syria, God Bless Iran, God bless
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Iraq? Right, you can't,
God bless Saudi Arabia? Come on,
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right? Can I just make it
about any country? Now? We sing
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songs of praise to those countries.
Basically, I know what people say,
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you just need to get out of
this country. You know, considering I
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served, you know, in the
United States military for my in my entire
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adult life, and I now disabled
vet because of what happened in to him
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in the military, I think maybe
you should just back off and stop telling
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me I need to leave the country. I always I hate that if I
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say anything negative like dot no,
just leave the doors open for you.
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Okay, Well, I think I
uh, you know, I think I
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have earned my right to stay right
here. I think I've earned my right.
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Okay. I served in the United
States Military. Okay, I think
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I earned my right. It wasn't
a four year I would have been into
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twenty years and made it, you
know what, eighteen nineteen active duty into
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what happened, and then you know, you almost die. You kind of
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got no choice, right. So, I don't know. I know it's
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a controversial thing, and I know
that that's not what the webcast was.
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Well, I take it back,
I don't know what the webcast was about.
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It may have been about patriotism.
It may have been all patriotism,
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patriotism all day, every day.
It may have been patriotism, patriotism,
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patriotism. I could be horribly wrong. I don't know so, but that's
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why I'm saying I'm not going to
make it about them. They provided me
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the song. I looked up all
the facts about the song and go,
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well, they're not the And then
I looked up a couple of websites about
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keeping track of how many hymn how
many hymn books. This song appears,
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and I think I think at least
one source had it at least four different
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hymn books, probably more. And
a lot of times what people do when
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they their patriotic services, they'll just
put the words up on the screen,
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right, and they want to have
it a hymn book, and like,
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hey, just look to the screen
and you know it. You love it.
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It's about our country. Everyone stand
and sing loud and proud because we
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are here this morning, Oh no, to worship God. But we're gonna
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really, it's gonna sound like we're
really here to exalt our idol, our
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national identity. So I know it's
gonna be hard for some of you,
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but forget patriotism. That's why I
started it this way. Forget patriotism for
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a moment, just those basic facts. You're in church, they're singing a
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song, and immediately realize, we
wait a minute. This song's not even
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written by a believer. It's written
by a Jewish agnostic. His own daughter
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refer to him as a non believer. He married a Catholic, so if
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he has any connection to Christianity,
it's Catholicism. And he was also a
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freemason. Should any of that even
matter? Or or now some people say
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that you're being nitpicky, you're straining
out a nat what you're swallowing a camel
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kind of concept. Do you think
that's do you think that's being unreasonable?
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Because I've seen some major criticism of
songs by Bethel Church, right song criticism
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about songs from Hillsong. I can
go through what Passion Church. I think,
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Uh, there's only four or five
mega churches really that kind of control
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most of the music sung in many
modern day churches. I've heard. I've
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heard all kinds of criticism about that. I've heard I've seen churches yell and
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scream about churches having a more contemporary
service and they yell and scream about that,
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or they're bringing in certain music from
certain artists and they will yell and
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scream about that. And it's like, well, wait a minute, where
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where what? What is the issue
is? Like what I just don't understand
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where the line is. It just
seems like, well the line, you
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know what the line is is people
sing what they want to sing, and
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they can always justify what they sing
while condemning what other people seeing and not
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following any agreed upon requirements. So
what are the requirements. I would love
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to get your thoughts. You can
email me News I F at yahoo dot
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com. That's news I F at
yahoo dot com. It's July the first,
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the whole week, the whole next
two weeks. It's all about live
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webcast on the Sermon's two point zero
app. I think I see where we're
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going to be. What's going to
be happening this week. We're going to
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see how much patriotism has entered into
the American church. I think in that
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sense, it's going to be a
fascinating experiment, even though that wasn't my
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goal. My goal was just like, hey, you know what, let's
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spend the week looking at all the
webcasts. But I think we're going to
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see what the webcast. In fact, because many of them are video,
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you're going to even be able to
see how the church is decorated. And
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it's not going to be based off
liturgy. It's not going to be based
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off the liturgical calendar. It's going
to be based off well, patriotism,
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and you'll have to decide how you
feel about it. This is not about
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you liking America or even loving America. This is about what the church is
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supposed to be and what the church
is supposed to do, and that's being
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consistent and what we say the standards
are. Now, we're inconsistent in every
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area of our lives. So I'm
not surprised that we're inconsistent in how we
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do church because inconsistency is a part
of who we are because of our sinful
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natures. But it is something that
we have to look at. I got
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to look at all the inconsistency in
my own life, but we also have
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to look at the inconsistency and how
it manifests itself and how churches do things.
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Now you get I'm gonna hopefully we'll
get a lot of just feedback when
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you're looking at the webcast, what
do you see? What do you?
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What do you? How much?
It's not even about criticizing again, I
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think people are going to misinterpret.
It's about just making an acknowledgment. Man,
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Patriotism is all over the place.
Now, how is it handled?
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Can you can you have a very
patriotic service, but to be handled in
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a much more theologically sound way.
Or and then when you're bringing in some
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of these patriotic songs, are you
even does it no longer matter? Like
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I mean, there's just so many
questions here. But that was my That
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was my experience this morning with the
first and I can't even really count that
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as a webcast I listened to because
all I got was the closing hymn,
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But it just caught me off guard. It was like, wait, what
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is happening? Because immediately I'm like, I know enough about this song and
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I know they should raise some questions. News I F Yahoo dot com.
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00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:52.920
That's news. I F Yahoo dot
com. News I f at yahoo dot
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00:33:52.319 --> 00:34:01.599
com. Thanks for listening, everyone, Have a great day. God bless
