March 13, 2025

Salem: The Accuser is Accused

Salem: The Accuser is Accused

The story how an accuser in the Salem Witch Trials became the accused

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The story how an accuser in the Salem Witch Trials became the accused

WEBVTT

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Well, are you

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ready for a mid afternoon trip back to Salem. It

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may not have the same feel, the same vibe as

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a late night trip to Salem, but it is just

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as important. So I hope you are ready, and we'll

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take that trip back to Salem right after I tell

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everyone good afternoon everyone. It is Thursday, March the thirteenth,

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twenty twenty five. It is currently twelve fifty seven pm

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Central Time, and I'm coming to you live from the

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Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. But

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we're not going to stay here in the studio. We're

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not going to stay here in Abilene, Texas. We're not

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even going to stay in Texas. We're going to go

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back to Salem, Massachusetts. We're going to go back to

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the Salem Witch Trials, and we're going to try our

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best to understand a very complicated story in the history

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of the Salem Witch Trials. This one, this one just

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has a lot of twist and turns. And the more

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I study it, the more I'm like, well, well, what

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about what about this? And hopefully you're going to find

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this interesting and maybe learn a lot of lessons from it.

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So remember the Salem Witch Trials sixteen ninety two to

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sixteen ninety three people are accused of being witches and

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they are executed. Twenty people ultimately die. It's a horrible

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story in American history, but it is one that is

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fascinating to me. But it is one that I think

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screams at all of us who claim to be Christians.

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It screams at the church. And I think there are

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lessons we need to pay attention to now. Whenever we

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start talking about the Salem witch Trials, we have to

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remember the first two girls who were afflicted and the

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first two girls who make their accusations, that is Betty

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Paris and Abigail Williams. Betty Paris and Abigail Williams. And

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when you start digging into their story, you kind of see,

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well maybe you kind of feel maybe a little bad

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for them. Maybe because they were doing this egg ritual

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they see they think they see a coffin. They're scared

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to death. Maybe they think they were gonna get in trouble.

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What their motivation, it's a little bit more murky. What

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is going on. They're very young, you know. At the

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same time, you think some adults could step in and

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maybe try to fix the situation, but well, they really

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spark the hysteria. So that's Betty Paris and Abigail Williams.

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Then after they're being afflicted and making their accusations and

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Putnam juniors steps in. She starts and she becomes the

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most prolific accuser. She accuses over sixty people, and you

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feel like for her, you know, she makes She's the

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only one who offers a confession and an apology. Right,

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so you feel kind of really bad about Anne Putman

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because you think, I feel like her father because again

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the people she accused just happens to be on her

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father's enemies list. So that one she feels very I

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think from when you read her story and listen to

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her story, she feels I feel like she was manipulated.

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I feel like she was manipulated by her father. She confesses,

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and then the end of her life is sad. She

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lives basically in silence, she lives alone, and she dies

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at what thirty seven? I mean, the whole thing is tragic.

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Then we have Elizabeth Hubbard, so we have Betty Paris,

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Abigail Williams, Ann Putnam Junior, and then Elizabeth Hubbard. And

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Elizabeth Hubbard, well, she's the theatrical accuser. She's the dramatic accuser.

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She she kind of sees what's going on, and she

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demands the spotlight. She steps to the forefront, like, everyone

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pay attention to me. She is dramatic. She captures the

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the attention of everyone. She the jewor the jewors. You know,

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they're in and you know, fascinated by her story. The

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judges are fascinated by their story. She really kind of

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stands out and and yeah, it's she's more complicated in

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the sense that I don't feel like she's being manipulated.

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You kind of feel like she's doing the manipulating. And

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but she she she takes the power, right. I mean,

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it's kind of crazy that Elizabeth Hubbard, this girl really

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becomes I mean, is she the one kind of driving

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it at that point? I mean, the judges are like,

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listen to Elizabeth, watch Elizabeth. The jurors are like, oh

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oh wow. Everyone's fascinated by her. In some ways, she

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kind of almost becomes is she the one controlling everything?

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It's really interesting trying to figure her out. So we've

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talked about Betty, We've talked about Abigail, We've talked about

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in We've talked about Elizabeth. Today we now tell the

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story of the accuser who becomes the accused. This story

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is fascinating, and I hope you find it as fascinating

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as I do, and hopefully we can learn something together.

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Are you ready? Now we're going to step back into

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this story. I'm trying to tell these stories as a narrative.

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Sometimes I kind of step out of the narrative to

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do maybe make some points, But I'm really trying to

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stick to a narrative here because I think it helps

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capture everything in a more interesting way than if I

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was to simply kind of do this in an academic lecture.

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So let's take a trip this afternoon back to Salem. Now,

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the Salem witch trials, they were fueled by fear, they

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were fueled by superstition, and they definitely were fueled by

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the power of accusation. But what happens when an accuser

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suddenly becomes the accused? What happens when someone who once

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pointed the finger tries to tell the truth only to

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be turned on by the very hysteria they themselves help create.

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Today we're going to explore the story of Mary Warren

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w A r r N. Mary Warren, a woman who

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stood at the crossroads of fear and truth, only to

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find herself trapped by I both. Now, as with all

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of these girls are making these accusations, you can determine

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for yourself how you view them. If you view them sympathetic,

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if you view them the victim, if you view them

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the victimizer, you can draw your own conclusions. And history

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always debates. Whenever we look back in history and study anyway,

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there's always debates about these individuals. Rarely it's never I mean,

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I think rarely it's black and white. I mean because

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as human beings, I think this is the major lesson

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we learn from all of this is that if you'll

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look in the mirror and you look at that person

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looking back at you, you know your motives are all

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messed up. Right. You have good motives, you have bad motives,

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You have selfish motives. Maybe sometimes you have selfless motives.

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Sometimes you think you're acting selfless sleep but you're actually

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acting selfishly. We always like to think that our motives

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are right, our motives are pure. We always think everyone

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should just see the good in our motives, right, Well,

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when someone gets upset at us, well, I was only

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trying to do this. I was only trying to do this.

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And we always frame it as ore that I'm only

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trying to do the right thing, And sometimes maybe we're not.

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Our motives are all messed up, which fits a thiological

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understanding of human beings because we are inherently sinful. So

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if we are inherently sinful, our motives arise from within us.

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Then our motives are inherently flawed and corrupted, and that

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is something we have to acknowledge. You can be reading

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your Bible, you can be praying, you can be going

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to church, you can be calling to check on someone,

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and all of that looks great and wonderful. Who knows

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what your actual motives are? And that's something that's hard

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for us to sometimes figure out. So when it comes

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to Mary Warren, well, she stands at the crossroads here

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and she finds herself trapped between truth hysteria. But what

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are her motives? And all of these women, what were

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their motives? When it comes to Mary Warren, we may

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ask this question, or ask these questions. Was she a victim?

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Was she a liar? Was she upon in a much

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larger game. So today we're gonna try to uncover the

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strange and unsuddenly unsettling story of Mary Warren, the accuser

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who became the accused, the accuser who became the accused. Now,

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let me just state this right here, let me stay here.

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I know I'll keep kind of leaving the narrative, but

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there's some points here we have to make when we

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look at Mary Warren's story, We're gonna we're gonna go

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through one narrative and then I don't know if we'll

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get to it in this episode. We may have to

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do a second episode, and then we'll do kind of

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a nu other narrative trying to give us the full

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picture because Mary Warren is one of those Let's say

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you're in Salem and you go to one of the museums,

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or you go to on a tour and they start

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talking about Mary war I said, Mary Williams, Mary Warren.

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Whenever you hear stories about Mary Warren, sometimes I feel

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like they don't give us the full story. I think

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it's true of all the women. Right if you go,

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if you're in Salem and you go to any of

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the museums, any of the tours, sometimes when they start

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talking about some of the girls, they kind of give

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you a very one dimensional idea about them. Whenever you

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hear preachers talk about the Salem witch trials, they only

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get they always give you a very one dimensional view.

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I'm to look at the messages on sermon audio, you know,

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trying to defend Cotton Mather. I mean, what kind of

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that that they They all completely misrepresent the story. So

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these these girls, there's there's layers to them. There there's

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there's it's it's always much more complicated. And I think

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Mary Warren maybe the most complicated one in some ways,

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or at least of all the ones we've studied so far.

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So we'll go through a narrative, then we'll do another

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narrative to try to add a fuller picture about everything

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you can know about Warren. But whenever we study her,

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whenever you think about her again, the questions are going

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to be was she a victim? Was she a liar?

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Or was she upon in a much larger game? Because

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Mary Warren's story is strange, it is unsettling, and it

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is the story of the accuser who became the accused. Now,

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Mary Warren was born around sixteen seventy four in the

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Massachusetts Bay Colony. Now, please know, with many of these girls,

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it's always like we maybe it was this year, maybe

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it was this year. Sometimes when they were born is

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a little hard to detect, but we have, you know,

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certain ideas. So it was around sixteen seventy four in

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the Massachusetts Bay Colony. By sixteen ninety two, she was

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living in Salem Village as a servant in the household

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of John and Elizabeth Proctor. I cannot stress to you

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the importance of that name, John Proctor. He's gonna play

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a major role in this, right and two in a

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lot of ways. Right, John Proctor's story. We'll do an

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entire We're gonna do an entire narrative about John Proctor

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because his story is fascinating in all of this. In fact,

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he kind of he's one of the well, I don't know. Well,

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I'm not gonna give too much away. There's a lot

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I could start telling you about John Proctor, but we

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won't write now. Now, unlike some of the other accusers

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who were young, Mary was twenty years old. Now that's

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very important. The other girls. You know, you've got eight years,

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eight year old, nine year old, twelve, fourteen, seventeen. I'm

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trying to name some of the ages. But May is twenty.

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She's much older, so we may be a little bit

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more skeptical about her motives. Right, we may be a

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little bit more skeptical because she's definitely old enough to

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understand kind of what's going on to some level. All right,

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So she's twenty years old, making her one of the

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older afflicted women. And the trials. She was not a

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child seeking attention. She was a young woman caught between duty, fear,

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and the expectations of her Puritan society. So some kind

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of put her between three kind of we may say,

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competing a things. The sense of duty, she's a servant girl.

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Now remember that she is a servant girl. Fear, mass

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hysteria is running all through Salem Village Salem. Everyone's scared

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to death. They think the devil is everywhere, they think

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there's witches everywhere, they think they're under attack. And then

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she has the expectations of the Pitan society, and the

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Puritan society put high expectations on everyone. But in the

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early months of sixteen ninety two, her life would take

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a dramatic turn. First she would become an accuser, then

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she would try to tell the truth, and finally she

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would become a victim of the very hysteria she helped create.

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What a crazy story she goes from. She goes from

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the accuser to the accused, right back to an accuser.

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It is crazy. But this all takes place in the

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early months of sixteen ninety two. In fact, March of

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sixteen ninety two, right three hundred and thirty three years ago,

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to be trying to be as exact as possible, early March,

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I can't say for sure it was March the thirteenth,

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but March the first really begins the trials because the

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first three women are interrogated or examined, and March the first.

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So she's right here at this early stage of everything. Okay,

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But early March sixteen ninety two, the witchcraft panic in

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Salem was already spreading. The first three women, Sarah Good,

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Sarah Osborne, and Tishuba had been accused and arrested. The

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town was gripped by fear, and Mary Warren became one

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of the many young women who claimed to be afflicted

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by witches. That March of sixteen ninety two was a

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lot was happening. The panic was really you're kind of

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at that initial stage of panic, and you can just

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imagine the gossip and the rumors and the fear and

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the paranoia beginning to kind of spread through Salem village

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and Salem. Her fits, because remember she's afflicted. Don't think

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of her just as an accuser and someone who's accused.

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She was afflicted as well. Her fits were described as violent, uncontrollable.

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She screamed, she convulsed, she pointed fingers, that those she

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claimed were tormenting her. Now, remember she's twenty, So if

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you're younger, I think if you're older, the demonstration of

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the affliction may be more violent and maybe more dramatic.

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Because you're older, you're stronger, you're more powerful. I think

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that it makes at least some sense. Now, her accusations

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help send people to trial. We cannot forget that she

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testified against multiple individuals, and she became an important part

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of the group of afflicted girls. For a time, Mary

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was protected by her status as a victim. She had power,

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she had influence, and she was being and she was

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being listened to. But then something changed. So we're in March, right,

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She's being listened to. She's a victim, she has power,

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she can make accusation. And then we move into April

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of sixteen ninety two. April sixteen ninety two. I don't

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have a specific date here, but we're in April sixteen

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ninety two. Something unexpected happened. Mary Warren changes her entire story.

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She begins to question whether the other girls afflicted are

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telling the truth. She even tells the court that the

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girls are faking their symptoms and that she no longer

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believes she was being afflicted by witches. She stops miraculously

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having any of these fits, she stops making accusations, and

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then she said something that no one expected. She claimed

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that the entire thing was a lie. She says that

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the accusations are all completely false, and she tries to

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stop the madness. All of a sudden, she does a

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complete turnaround. The girls are faking it, these accusations are false.

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She just miraculously is healed, right, miraculously, she's no longer

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having any affliction. I mean, this whole thing calls into

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question the validity and the legitimacy of the entire Salem

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Witch Trials, because I mean, she just magically go from

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having the exact same symptoms till it's over. It's good. Hey,

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all of these girls are lying, They're all faking it.

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So what's going to happen? How are the people going

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to respond to Mary? I mean, doesn't is Mary the

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one who stops the Salem witch Trials? Is she the

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one that opens everyone's eyes? And a town and a

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village ruled by fear? Speaking the truth was dangerous? In fact,

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speaking the truth was very dangerous, and Mary Warren was

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about to learn that the hard way. Almost immediately after

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Mary Warren recanted her accusations, the other of Lifted girls

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turn on her. They claimed that she was lying, that

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she was bewitched, and that she had signed the Devil's Book.

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We're right back to the Devil's Book again. You can't.

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You can't if you have, if you if you care

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anything about the Salem Witch Trials, this Devil's Book is

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the It is so instrumental in all of this. All right,

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just remember the Devil's Book. Will do an entire We'll

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do an entire episode on the Devil's Book. We may

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have to do multiple episodes on The Devil's Book. It

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is very important to understand because the whole concept is

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that that these girls get approached by a figure basically Satan,

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and he has a book and they sign their name

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in the book. And so what what what you could

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do is you could be making an accusation saying, I

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saw her name in the book, I saw his name

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in the book. And if you saw their name in

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the book, well then guess what that proved anyone name

302
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who's in that book that they basically have renounced Christianity,

303
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they have renounced their faith. They're basically blasphemed to Jesus Christ.

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They've given themselves over to Satan. They are a witch.

305
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And you don't need any other proof. Now, this book

306
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doesn't actually exist, right, It's you know, Satan comes to

307
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you and shows you the book. You can't produce the book.

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You don't have a photo of the book. You just

309
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tell someone you saw the book, and you can and

310
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if you're smart, you can kind of play this out right.

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You're like, oh, I saw the book. I think there

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was a couple of names. I don't remember all the names. Well,

313
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let me give you one right now, and I'll try

314
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to remember the others. Well, that can keep you alive, right,

315
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because they need you to live, so that you can

316
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give the rest of the names and the book, because

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the book gives you the you know who this gang

318
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of witches is, this coven of witches that may be

319
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trying to take over, this army of witches. If someone

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knows all the names and the book, they can identify

321
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and you can wipe out Satan's army. So you can

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really play into that. So now, because Mary says, hey,

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all these girls are lying, then the girls are like,

324
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oh no, no, no, she's lying. How do we know

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we lying? We saw her name in Satan's book. And

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then everybody's like, okay, Mary, no, no, Mary, you're not

327
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telling the truth. They're telling the truth because they saw

328
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your name in Satan's book. So what it's crazy. So again,

329
00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:35.119
spectral evidence and all of this kind of nonsensical evidence

330
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that cannot be tested in any way, shape or form.

331
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That really is what the courts start listening to. So

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she goes from being an afflicted victim to being a

333
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suspected witch. She was accused of witchcraft, She was arrested,

334
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and she was thrown into jail. One minute, she's a victim,

335
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the next minute she's an accuser, the next minute she's

336
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an accused witch who's thrown into jail. Mary Warren had

337
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tried to break free from the hysteria, but the moment

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she did, she was swallowed by it, and under intense pressure, imprisonment,

339
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and fear, she did something shocking. She recanted of her recantation.

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She recants of her Hey, I know I said that

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I would that you know that this is all lie

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and no no, I recant to that. No, no, no,

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I'm a victim and they're actually witches. So she goes

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from I'm a victim, I'm accusing. No no, no, no, no,

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no no no, all of this is a lie. I'm

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not accusing anyone, to back to no no no, I'm

347
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a victim and I'm accusing. Just trying to follow this

348
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story is crazy. She goes back to her original story.

349
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She claims that she really was afflicted again and she

350
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rejoined the accusers and continued to testify against others. So

351
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she goes back to the original story. She's like, no, no,

352
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I'm being afflicted again, and then she's like, no, I'm

353
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going to rejoin. Okay, these girls who are accusing me. Actually,

354
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I'm on their side. Now Mary Warren's story is one

355
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:32.440
of fear, survival, and manipulation. Did she truly believe in witchcraft?

356
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Did she realize too late what was happening? Or was

357
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she simply trying to save herself from the same fate

358
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that she had helped bring upon others. Now, Unlike many

359
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:50.880
of the accused, Mary Warren was not executed. By sixteen

360
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ninety three, after the trials ended, she was released from

361
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jail and seemingly disappears from historical record. Some history believe

362
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she may have returned to Salem or moved elsewhere in Massachusetts,

363
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but her later life we don't know. She just disappears,

364
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just gone. She leaves behind no known letters, she leaves

365
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behind no public apologies, and she leaves behind no defense

366
00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:30.079
of her actions. She simply vanished from history. She is

367
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remembered only as the girl who accused, recanted, and then

368
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accused again. Now Mary Warren's stories one of fear and survival.

369
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She played every role in the Salem witch trials. She

370
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played the victim, she played the accuser, and she played

371
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the accused who then became the accuser again. Oh, and

372
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:03.480
she was imprisoned. She is a reminder that hysteria has

373
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a way of consuming everyone in its path, even those

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who try to escape it, even those who try to

375
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tell the truth. Now, I know I'm going to take

376
00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:14.359
off some people with this, but you kind of see

377
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:18.720
it in the Maga movement, the whole Trump movement. Hey,

378
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.319
everyone loves you until the minute you decide to criticize

379
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:25.240
Trump or criticize something about the Maga movement. Then that

380
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:28.680
very movement that you support it will turn on you,

381
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and then you'll be accused of being a traitor, a liberal, woke,

382
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:36.680
a satanist, a pedophile. That will accuse you of anything.

383
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:41.920
It's the same insanity. Oh, I know I'm going to

384
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make some people unhappy about that, but I've got too

385
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:54.480
many examples of that. So her story forces us to

386
00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:57.519
ask how many people in history have been trapped in

387
00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:01.480
a lie that couldn't escape, how many have been forced

388
00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:06.799
to choose between honesty and survival? And most importantly, could

389
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:14.160
something like this happen again? Now we could stop right there,

390
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:15.920
and that's how a lot of people would tell the

391
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:21.720
story of Mary Warren. Some will view her as the

392
00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:28.720
accuser who was accused. Maybe we could frame the narrative

393
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:33.200
slightly different. So I'm gonna tell the story again, but

394
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.599
from a little slightly different angle, right, because there's layers

395
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:40.880
to this. Maybe we should call her the accuser who

396
00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:45.759
couldn't decide, Maybe we should rewrite the story. So let's

397
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.519
tell the story of Mary Warren just slightly from a

398
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.319
slightly different perspective to kind of add to this so

399
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.200
that you really can get maybe a sense of the

400
00:27:55.240 --> 00:28:03.440
complexity here. Salem witch trials were fueled by accusations, hysteria,

401
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:08.960
and fear, but for one woman, perhaps more than any other,

402
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:14.559
the trials weren't just about fear. They were about survival.

403
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:17.839
Now I'm going to frame it a little differently there. Now.

404
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:21.680
Now I said in the previous narrative, maybe a lot

405
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.480
of what she was doing with survival, but I kind

406
00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:26.319
of asked it as a question. I think when you

407
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.720
really look into her story, I think it's all about survival. Now,

408
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:34.799
remember she's a servant girl. Let's not forget that, all right,

409
00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:38.599
keep that in mind here. So let's tell the story again.

410
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:42.880
And the previous narrative I told the story of Mary Warren,

411
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:47.720
the young servant who became both an accuser and accused,

412
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:52.519
But the story is way more complicated than that, so

413
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:55.759
we need to take a deeper look at her motivations.

414
00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:02.640
Was she being used trying to save herself or was

415
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:06.319
she just caught in a cycle. She couldn't figure a

416
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:08.920
way to escape. She couldn't find her way out of it.

417
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:17.279
So let's try to uncover the shifting allegiances, desperate reversals,

418
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.319
and life or death decisions of Mary Warren, the accuser

419
00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:29.400
who couldn't decide. Let's frame it that way. See, Mary

420
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:33.160
Warren wasn't like the other accusers. She wasn't the youngest,

421
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:39.640
she wasn't the loudest, she wasn't the most theatrical. But

422
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:44.359
what made her different, what made her story so stand

423
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:48.359
out in history, is how many times she changed sides.

424
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:55.720
I'm a victim, I'm an accuser, I'm the accused. Oh,

425
00:29:55.759 --> 00:30:00.400
I'm an accuser again. At first, she it was just

426
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:03.440
like the others. She claimed to be afflicted, tormented by

427
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.599
unseen hands. She screamed, she convults, she pointed fingers at

428
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:10.440
so called witches. But then she did something that no

429
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:13.720
one else did. She changed her story. She recanted, She

430
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:16.440
admitted the girls were lying, and in doing so, she

431
00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:20.279
nearly destroyed the entire trials. I mean, in some ways,

432
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:22.319
you would think, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait

433
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:25.359
a minute. If the girls are lying, let's stop everything,

434
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:31.039
let's figure this out. But instead of stopping the hysteria,

435
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:37.039
it nearly gets her killed. To understand why Mary Warren

436
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:39.839
acted the way she did, maybe we have to go

437
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:44.440
a little deeper, deeper into her accusations, deeper into her reversals,

438
00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:50.880
and deeper into the pressure she faced from every single side.

439
00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:54.160
You see. One of the most unusual things about Mary

440
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:58.200
Warren is that she accused Are you ready for this,

441
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:06.640
her own employer, employer. I guess we could call she's

442
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:10.000
a servant the people she accuses the family, She's a

443
00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:16.680
servant of her employer. She accuses them. Now, in the

444
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.279
first story with Betty and Abigail, they accuse the servant.

445
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:25.200
Now we have the servant accusing, well, the one she serves,

446
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:33.079
her employer. At the time of the Trials, Mary was

447
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:37.599
a servant in the household of John and Elizabeth Proctor

448
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:43.160
and Purity Society and Puritan Society. Not Purity Society and

449
00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:50.839
Puritan Society, servants had very little power. They were at

450
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:57.559
the bottom of the social hierarchy. But once the accusation started,

451
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:02.079
everything begins to change. Right. Now she has a voice,

452
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:07.039
Now she's being listened to, Now she has power. So

453
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:14.920
did she possibly resent her employers? I mean, you accuse

454
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:18.559
the very very people you're working for. I mean that's

455
00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:21.799
bold right there, right, that's pretty bold. So does she

456
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:27.119
have something against them? Thinking okay, hey, I can change everything? Right?

457
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:35.799
Remember she is twenty. Does she feel some unspoken pressure

458
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:38.039
to go along with the other girls? And then she

459
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:41.400
just miscalculates, Oh, the other girls are accusing I've got

460
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:45.279
to accuse someone. Well, again, initially in your thinking, you

461
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:48.599
have to accuse someone who's close by, that you think,

462
00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:50.799
I mean, just logically you think. I mean, I don't

463
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:54.519
know how well these girls understand spectral evidence. But at

464
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:57.720
first it makes sense that they all seem to accuse

465
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:01.799
someone very close by. The first girls accused Tishuba, who's

466
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:07.400
a servant in their house. Now she's going to accuse

467
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:11.839
Mary Warren's going to accuse well, her employee employers, who

468
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:14.119
are right there in her house, in the very house

469
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:21.880
she works. It that seems to make sense. Or did

470
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:24.680
she actually believe that witches were attacking her? Well? The

471
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:26.799
only problem with trying to believe that she actually believe

472
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:30.160
witches were attacking her. She got over being victimized really quick.

473
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:33.119
As soon as she says, hey, this is all a lie,

474
00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:39.480
her symptoms go immediately away. Yeah, that seems that's too coincidental, Right,

475
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:45.400
there's something else driving this, doesn't, don't you think? Whatever

476
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:49.200
the reason she accused, she accused John and Elizabeth Proctor

477
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:51.920
of witchcraft. And when she did, her life takes a

478
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:56.440
dangerous turn because she makes a mistake here. Like, first

479
00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:58.759
she's accusing her employer, that's already going to put her

480
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:02.160
in some danger. But she happened to accuse John Proctor.

481
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.359
That's the last person you would want to accuse. Why. Well,

482
00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:11.679
because John Proctor, unlike everyone else in Salem, he didn't

483
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:15.360
believe the girls. He thought this whole thing was garbage.

484
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:17.679
He think though, hey, John Proctor was the one like

485
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:20.519
you people. I mean, I'm paraphrasing here. You people are

486
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:24.119
all idiots. There's no witches. This is all a game.

487
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:26.960
You people are falling for it. That's the wrong person

488
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:30.480
to accuse. See, he saw the trials that they were

489
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:34.320
a fraud, and when Mary accused him and his wife,

490
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:36.960
he did something else no one else dared to do.

491
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:40.199
He's going to fight back. He's like, oh, you want

492
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:42.719
to come after me? No, no, no, no, no, you're

493
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:48.920
all liars, So proctor he publicly in a sense, I

494
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.400
don't know exactly where he does this, but he publicly

495
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:55.800
basically calls all the girls liars, all of them. All

496
00:34:55.800 --> 00:35:00.880
of the girls are lying. He ridiculed, there's so called affliction.

497
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:03.599
He made fun of their afflictions. He's like, oh, you're

498
00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:06.400
falling on the ground, you're going ah, Oh, I can

499
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:09.760
follow on the ground and go ah. He basically mocks

500
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:16.480
them all. He thinks this whole thing is just insane,

501
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:21.400
and according to some now this is speculation. Maybe when

502
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:25.199
the doors were closed, he goes to Mary and he's like,

503
00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:29.639
what are you doing. I don't think you're gonna be

504
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:34.880
making these accusations anymore. This is all a lie, This

505
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.079
is all a game. You're gonna tell everyone this is

506
00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:40.920
a lie and this is a game. Or I don't know,

507
00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:44.519
you're not gonna have a job anymore. Now we can't

508
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:53.599
say for sure how the conversation went, but kind of

509
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:58.440
guess what happens. She changes her story. She confessed that

510
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:01.800
everything was a lie, and suddenly everything about the trials

511
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:03.920
are in trouble. Now, now everyone's going to be like, well,

512
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.519
he's been telling everyone the whole thing's a lie. Now

513
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:10.760
his own servant is going to tell everyone it's a lie.

514
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:12.800
Now you can see why she could be pressured. So

515
00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.480
you kind of feel bad for Mary in this particular case.

516
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:18.599
Right why she makes the original afflictions of the or

517
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:23.920
why she has the original affliction and makes the original accusation.

518
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:28.119
I don't know why she accused her employer, I mean,

519
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:31.599
come on, what are you thinking? And so that's where

520
00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:34.239
you can start going. Man, did she just not like them?

521
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:38.400
And then but accusing John was the wrong person to

522
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:43.639
accuse because he does not like any of this. So

523
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.480
Mary Warren stands before the court and she did what

524
00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:50.039
no one else had done. Some would say she now

525
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:55.360
tells the truth. She said that she and the other

526
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:01.599
girls had been pretending that there were no actually afflicted

527
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:06.480
and that the accused are all innocent. Now, if the

528
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:10.920
judges believe her, it ends the Salem witch trials right then,

529
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:17.360
right there, But instead didn't end the Salem witch trials.

530
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:21.800
She's immediately accused of being a witch herself. The all

531
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:24.920
of the girls turn against her, and now she's on

532
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.079
trial for her life. And what do people do when

533
00:37:29.119 --> 00:37:32.440
they're backed into a corner, they try to escape. So

534
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:37.719
faced with the threat of execution, Mary Warren changed her

535
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:41.840
story again. She said that she had been bewitched into recanting,

536
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:44.480
that the devil had forced her to lie, and just

537
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:46.960
like that, she was welcomed back into the group of

538
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:50.840
the accusers. They're like, oh, welcome back, Mary, we've missed you.

539
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.320
Come on back. Hey, Now you've got a voice. Now

540
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:56.000
you've got power now, you know. And it's almost like

541
00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:58.440
the other girls are like, well, we'll take over, we'll

542
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:00.559
do most of the accusing. You just be quiet now,

543
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:08.599
you don't need to say anything else. She had accused,

544
00:38:09.400 --> 00:38:14.199
she had recanted. Now why she accused again? Because if

545
00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:21.719
she doesn't do that, she's probably going to die. So

546
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:25.599
what was really going on with Mary Warren? Why did

547
00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:29.519
she shift sides so many times? Well, I'm just going

548
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:34.840
to do some speculating here. Was she seeking revenge As

549
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:38.039
a servant, she had little power until she became an accuser.

550
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:41.840
Did she accuse John and Elizabeth Proctor because she resented them?

551
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:46.599
Was she just trying to stay safe and Salem. If

552
00:38:46.599 --> 00:38:50.400
you didn't accuse, you were accused. She might have joined

553
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.840
the hysteria simply because it was the only way to

554
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:55.880
avoid suspicion. Now you can think about this well, add

555
00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:59.840
another possible scenario. Who's the first woman? Remember she does

556
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:08.119
in March March the first Remember Tishiba the servant was accused.

557
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:11.239
Is this where she's like, wait a minute. If they're

558
00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:13.559
gonna go after the servant, remember all the women they

559
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:16.840
go after the beginning, or all women who have no power,

560
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:22.280
they're all suspect, a beggar, like all of them. And

561
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:26.880
so maybe she's like, wait, I'm twenty, I'm a servant,

562
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:31.239
I'm gonna be accused. Maybe she's like, I'm gonna get accused.

563
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:32.880
You know what, I'm not gonna wait for anyone to

564
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:36.039
accuse me. I'm going to accuse them. Maybe she felt

565
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:39.599
that they could possibly accuse her first, and so she's like,

566
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:43.119
I'm gonna offer a preemptive strike. I'm going to accuse

567
00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:50.480
them before they can accuse me. Possibly, or was she

568
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:55.239
just mad at them? Was she just trying to stay

569
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:58.039
safe Again, if you didn't accuse, you were the accused.

570
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:06.519
Maybe by joining the hysteria, she avoids suspicion. Was she

571
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:09.840
pressured by the proctors. John Proctor was the only man

572
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:13.199
in Salem who openly spoke against the trials. He mocked them.

573
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:17.639
Did he force Mary to recant? Possibly against her will?

574
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:22.639
But once she did, she was immediately accused. Was it

575
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:26.000
all just about survival? Once Mary was accused herself, she

576
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:28.239
had no choice but to go back being an accuser.

577
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:37.760
The trials already had shown that recanting meant death. Whatever

578
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.559
the truth may be, the one thing is clear. Mary

579
00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:43.519
Warren isn't in control of her own fate. She was

580
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:51.000
a pawn, used, pressured, manipulated by both sides. Now and again,

581
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:53.840
maybe at first she had wrong motives. Maybe at first

582
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:56.280
she was met and then she accuses the wrong person.

583
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:59.840
Maybe she makes the accusation to try to protect herself.

584
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:04.440
I mean, it's just insanity going on. And again, these

585
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:12.440
are all the good, godly Puritans. Again, whenever you study

586
00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:14.920
church history, gets what you find out about Christians. We

587
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:21.480
are messed up and sinful. Mary Warren's story isn't just

588
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:24.800
about one girl caught in chaos. It's about how the

589
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:30.039
Salem witch trials operated. It's about how fear controlled everything.

590
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:35.480
Accusers were rewarded, doubters were punished, and anyone who tried

591
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:40.800
to stop the trials became a target themselves. Mary Warren

592
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:43.599
tried to tell the truth, and when she did, she

593
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:47.480
nearly died for it. The Salem witch trials weren't about justice,

594
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:49.920
They weren't about protecting the town from witches. They were

595
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:55.440
about power control and survival. And in the end, no

596
00:41:55.480 --> 00:42:03.079
one probably knew that better than Mary Warren. Now we

597
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:07.039
won't tell the story now, but remember the person she accuses,

598
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:20.559
John Proctor. Well, Mary survives, John doesn't, And next time

599
00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:23.760
we'll tell the story of what happened to John, because

600
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:27.039
it's so closely connected to Mary. I kind of wanted

601
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:29.599
to go through all the accusers in order, but we're

602
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:32.639
gonna have to kind of intervene here and in the

603
00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:35.199
next episode and tell the story of John because Mary

604
00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:42.239
accuses him. Ultimately he dies and it leaves his wife.

605
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:47.000
Oh man, his wife gets all her story's all messed up.

606
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:49.360
What happened after, I mean, John is bad enough, he dies,

607
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.480
ah man, The whole thing is horrible. What happens to

608
00:42:55.159 --> 00:43:02.159
the Proctor's is horrible, It really is. Mary survives this.

609
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:08.079
John doesn't. Now was Mary smart enough then to catch

610
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:13.360
on how to survive? Where John thought truth was going

611
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:21.880
to protect him, truth did not protect him. So now

612
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:27.960
we have heard the story of Betty, Abigail, Ann, Elizabeth,

613
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:36.239
and Mary. These are the names that they were the victims,

614
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:42.199
they were the accusers, and one of them literally became

615
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:49.159
the accused to go back being an accuser again to

616
00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:52.360
Salem witch trials. Are you starting to see why I'm

617
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:59.960
so fascinated by them? The stories are just I can't

618
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:03.719
tell the stories well enough. I can't. I don't do

619
00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:07.480
the stories justice, probably because part of my problem is

620
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:10.599
I keep you know, I try to get into the narrative,

621
00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:12.239
and then I step out of the narrative to offer

622
00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:15.199
explanation and commentary. Then I go back into the narrative,

623
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:19.519
right I'm not I have the narrative written out, but

624
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:22.760
then I leave it because I've got to offer these thoughts,

625
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:27.440
because I get really man like for each one of

626
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.280
these girls. I look at each one and it's like

627
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:31.360
I wish I could talk to them. And what's so

628
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:33.960
sad is they many of them just kind of disappear.

629
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:37.800
They are kind of like, WHOA, We're out of here,

630
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:40.159
and you kind of like like, did no one bother

631
00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:42.719
to go find them? Going? Come on, won't really happened?

632
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:45.599
Talk to us? Come on, tell us what really happened here?

633
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:48.440
I mean, the world's gonna But it's one of those

634
00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:50.880
things that in sixteen ninety two and sixteen ninety three,

635
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:52.840
I think probably most of them just thought, you know,

636
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:55.559
nobody's gonna remember this. No one's going to be talking

637
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:58.440
about this three hundred and thirty three years from now

638
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:01.400
on a thing called a podcast. Okay, I doubt that they.

639
00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:04.280
You know, they didn't have any way of comprehending what

640
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:09.159
was unfolding. There was a history of great significance. But

641
00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:13.119
it screams at us as Christians about not living in fear.

642
00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:16.480
What we need a sound mind, not getting caught up

643
00:45:16.519 --> 00:45:21.519
in hysteria and paranoia, and and what can happen when

644
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:23.760
when when the culture starts going a certain way, if

645
00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:26.679
you stand against it, you're gonna get swallowed by it.

646
00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:39.039
John Proctor he he didn't go along with it, and

647
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:41.800
he dies as a result of not going along with it.

648
00:45:43.159 --> 00:45:47.320
And we'll tell his story next time. Thanks for listening, everyone,

649
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:49.559
Have a great day. God bless