Psalm 83: Past, Present, or Future?

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Looking at our world from a theological
perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast

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making Theology Central. Good afternoon everyone. It is Wednesday, June nineteenth,

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twenty twenty four. It is currently
five four pm Central Time, and I

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am coming to you live from the
Theology Central studio located right here in Abilene,

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Texas. Now, when it comes
to interpreting the Bible, when it

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comes to the study of hermeneutics,
and hermonutics is really the system, the

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idea is the principles we use in
order to interpret the Bible. Now,

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in some ways, hermeneutics is really
just kind of the science of interpretation,

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and we use that for everything we
read. But when it comes to the

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Bible, when it comes to understanding
and interpreting the Bible, which everyone is

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engaged in. Every Christian is engaged
in Bible interpretation. Don't just go to

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your church and go whatever you tell
me. No Christians read, they interpret,

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they argue, they debate, they
think their interpretation is right. Whether

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they've ever studied hermanutics, they still
draw conclusions and interpret the text. But

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when it comes to the idea of
Bible interpretation, when it comes to the

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concept of hermeneutics. I want you
to consider and I want you to think

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about the following three things. Are
you ready? If you have a piece

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of paper, you may want to
write these down. Three things. Number

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one descriptive versus prescriptive, descriptive versus
prescriptive, descriptive versus prescriptive. This is

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the idea. When you open your
Bible and you're reading a passage, is

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that passage simply describing what has occurred
or describing what will occur? It just

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simply describing something? Or is it
prescribing that you do ABCDE you'll get the

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same results. Is it prescribing something
you're supposed to do? Is it prescribing

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something you know? Is it telling
you something to do? Or is it

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simply describing something. Let me give
you an example. Early this morning,

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I was looking on one of my
podcast apps and I have the devotional feed

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from Sermonadio. I don't even know
where I obtained this RSS feed, but

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it works pretty good on most of
the podcasting apps. So I get the

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Spurgeons Morning and Evening devotional, the
audio devotional sent to some of my podcast

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apps. Because of this RSS feed
that comes from Sermonadio, I don't even

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know where I found it. I
found this probably I don't even know how

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many years ago, and I've been
just using it and moving it from podcast

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app to podcast app. But I
started listening. It's about three minutes four

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minutes long, and it's, you
know, based off Morning and Evening,

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the famous devotional by Charles Hatton Spurgeon. Well, this morning he was in

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Acts chapter two, and of course
Acts chapter two is the day of Hintecost,

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the Holy Spirit falls upon them and
basically Charles Spurgeon was taken In fact,

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I was going to do a broadcast
about it. He basically takes Acts

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chapter two and says, see,
this is what we need. We need

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the Holy Spirit basically to fall upon
us, to fill us, and then

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we will have power and we will
have ability, and we will have this

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and we will have this and we
will And I'm like, wait a minute,

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is Acts chapter two prescribing something or
is it simply describing what happened on

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the day of Pentecost. Wasn't what
happened in Acts two a fulfillment of what

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was pictured and Leviticus when it talked
about the day of Pentecost or what?

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So? Was it simply in a
description or is it prescribing? So many

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people go to acts too and says, well, if we'll all come together

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and we will pray, then the
Holy Spirit will fall upon us and then

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we will have power and ability and
we will be holy and we and I'm

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like, I don't know if X
two is really prescribing anything. It's just

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describing what occurred. And I and
Christians never agree many cases, it was

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this passage descriptive or prescriptive? Will
most sermons take every repassage and make it

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turns it into something prescriptive. You
need to do this, and we need

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to do this, and if we
need to do this, and if we

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will do this, and then we
will get this ability and we will gain

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victory. And you're kind of like, I don't know if that's really prescribing

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something. I think is simply describing
what happened. Now, maybe there's some

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lessons we can take from it,
but we got to really decide descriptive or

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prescriptive, all right, So that's
that's the first thing I want you to

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write down. Descriptive versus prescriptive.
Number two past present, future, past

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present future. Now, this can
get very convoluted. And very confusing quickly.

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So you're going to have to listen
carefully. So whatever destructions are around,

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you tell them, shh okay to
them, be quiet. I've got

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to hear this all right, Past
present, future. Whenever you come to

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a passage of scripture, you have
to ask this. Not only do you

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ask is it descriptive or is it
prescriptive? You ask is this describing something

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past, present, or future?
And what do I mean by that?

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Well, I mean a couple of
things. And so this is where it

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can get confusing. First of all, you have to take into consideration when

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it was written. When this passage
was written, was it talking about something

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that was a past event for the
original recipients? Was it describing something that

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was a present event for the original
recipients, or was it describing something that

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would be a future event for maybe
the original audience or even someone else's generations

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to come. So first you have
to consider past, present, future as

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it relates to the original recipients of
each letter of each book. Hey,

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when this book was given to whomever, was it describing events that were passed

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for them, present for them or
future for them and for generations to come?

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Past, present, future, all
right. In other words, so

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I'll give you a good example.
When they talk about the coming Babylonian captivity,

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Well, that's future for the original
recipients. It's past for me though,

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right when there was warnings about seventy
a d that was future for them,

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but past for me. So we
consider past, present, future first

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and foremost as it relates to the
original recipients. Is that talking about something

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that had happened in the past for
them? Present it's happening right now for

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them, or future for them?
So past present, future as it pertains

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to the original audience, then we
have to ask the question, is this

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passage past, present or future for
us now the future recipients for it,

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for you and for me in twenty
twenty four. So if I read a

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passage, is that describing something past
for me? Okay, well I think

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it is. What event is it
talking about? Is it talking about something

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that relates to our present? Well
that's very difficult sometimes to determine, But

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okay, does it relate to something
in a present or is it related to

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something future even for us? So
when it comes to Biblical harmoneutics, when

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it comes to entering a passage of
scripture, The first thing you need to

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consider is descriptive versus prescriptive. Is
it simply describing something or is it prescribing

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something we're to do? And second
you need to consider past, present future

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for the original recipients and for you
when you open your Bible, is this

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describing something that was a past event
for us, it's it's in our past,

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it's you know, it's passed way
way before we even existed. Or

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present. Is it describing something that's
going on now or is it future for

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us? So for the original recipients, was it passed for them, present

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for them or future for them?
And then for the for us, is

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it passed for us? Present for
us or future for us? Past present

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future? Now Once again there will
be massive disagreements. You can come to

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a passage and go, oh,
that's that was future for the original recipients,

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but it's past for us. That
was fulfilled in you know whatever,

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you know, seventy five A D
three hundred eighty or it was it was

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fulfilled in you know, five point
thirty six BC, whatever the case may

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be. But for the original recipients
it was future. But it's past for

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us, that past, present future. We have to think long and hard

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about that. Because people get that
all can feel. They'll take a passage

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and be like, oh, this
is describing something that is to come.

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You're like, no, that was
describing seventy eight. Like Matthew twenty four,

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that was describing seventy a D.
For example, Matthew twenty four,

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the obvious most relevant connection those events
are talking about is seventy a D.

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They come out of the temple,
they talk to Jesus, Hey, do

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you see this, and he's like, yeah, do you see this?

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It's all coming down, It's all
going to be destroyed. He's talking about

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the temple that was in existence when
he was on earth, and that temple

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was destroyed in seventy a D.
So primarily Matthew twenty four was future for

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the original hearers, but it is
passed for us. Now I get well.

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Christians agree on that, absolutely not. They will fight and argue all

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day. So many times people will
be quoting some scripture and they're like,

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that's talking about the future. I'm
like, what are you talking about?

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That was fulfilled? Was it was
future for the original recipients. That's past

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for us, that's already been fulfilled. So these are just basic hermeneutical principles.

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This is like hermeneutics one oh one. This is what every young person

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who goes to church, they should
learn these hermaeutical principles. Okay, so

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descriptive versus prescriptive, descriptive past,
present, future again for the original recipients

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and for us. And then third, literal or spiritual? Literal or spiritual.

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When we read a passage, do
we understand this? Is usual?

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This is usually in reference to future
things, right, Usually this is in

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a reference to future things. If
we decide that the passage has some relevance

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to the future that we have to
determine, do we under stand that to

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be literal or spiritual? Now,
this can get really really weird, right,

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This can get really really weird.
When you talk to Christians, they

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can look at a passage and they'll
be and they'll say, Okay, let's

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say the Book of Isaiah. Well, some of that is describing maybe past

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events, even for the original recipients. Some of Isaiah's clearly describing present events

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that were happening or we're very close
to happening for the original recipients. And

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some of it is describing future events
that would grew that those who were alive

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would experience, say Babylonian captivity or
the Assyrians or whoever else that you know

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is being spoken of, and they
will take that those past events and those

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present events and those ones that happen
in the near future for the original recipients,

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and they will say that was all
literal, literal, Babylonians literal captivity,

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literal, Assyrians literal, Egyptians literal, this literal, this literal,

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this literal, this literal this.
Then they'll take some of the prophecies found

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in Isaiah and say those are literal
prophecies that will be fulfilled in the future.

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When it talks about a virgin having
a child, that was literally fulfilled.

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Mary was a virgin and she brought
forth Christ. And when it talks

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about the Messiah, he literally will
will suffer, he will literally die,

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he will literally be resurrected. And
so they'll make some of those future prophecies

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all literal, literal, literal.
Then there'll be other prophecies in the Book

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of Isaiah and go no no,
no, no, no, no no

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no no, that's not literal Israel
and literal land and a literal temple and

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a literal millennial Kingdom. No no, no, no, no, no

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no no. Now, see,
the past things were literal, the present

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things were literal, some of the
future things were literal. But these other

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promises, no, no, no, that's not literal Israel, that's spiritual

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Israel. That's not literal Land,
that's just just going to be fulfilled by

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the Church. Or that's not the
millennial Kingdom. That's what God's going to

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do inside the church. And then
all of a sudden it goes from literal

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to spiritual. Well, others will
be like, no, the past events

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talked about in Isaiah were literal,
the present events were literal, the immediate

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future events were literal, and the
far distant future events are also literal.

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Once again, you'll get disagreements.
Now, just think about it. What

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is the hope of us ever coming
to any agreement on anything. If we

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can't agree whether something is descriptive or
prescriptive, we can't agree on whether it's

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past, present, or future,
and we can't agree on whether it's literal

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or spiritual. So what I always
suggest is, whenever you find yourself disagreeing

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with other Christians, just stop them
and go wait, wait, wait,

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let's figure out some basic hermeneutical principles
here that we can agree or disagree on.

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Do you see this as descriptive or
prescriptive? Do you see it as

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past, present, future? Do
you see it as literal? Spiritual?

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At least start there. And if
you don't even have agreements on those aspects

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of whatever passage you're discussing, there's
no point in having any future discussion.

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There's no point just walk away because
you're not going to get anywhere. But

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those are three very just foundational things
to hermeneutics. You have a passage.

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Is this descriptive or prescriptive? Is
it past present, future, past present

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future for the original recipients, past
present future for us? Right? And

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is it literal or spiritual? Those
are basic elements. I could probably give

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you more principles, but those are
basic elements. Now, why am I

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spending thirteen minutes plus and my introduction
to discuss this? Well, last week

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I spent some time driving in my
car, And because this year is the

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year of the Sermon's two point zero
Sermons Challenge, where you're supposed to be

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downloading the sermons two point zero app
and finding random sermons in honor of that

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challenge. I found some random sermons, and the first one I found was

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one that said the coming Middle East
War. Oh, that's a future event.

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And I'm like, okay, all
right, I want to listen to

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this and see what they're going to
say about the coming Middle East War?

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What is their predictions? What are
they basing it off of? Do I

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will I agree or disagree with their
hermoneuticts? Oh? I can't wait to

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hear this. Then I noticed that
it was the coming Middle East War,

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but the first part of the title
was Psalm eighty three, and I was

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like, wait, Psalm eighty three
predicts a coming Middle East War. I'm

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like, I'm baffled. I'm confused. All all seminary Bible, college,

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Bible Institute. I've done a lot
of schoolwork and academic pursuits, and I

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don't think I've ever perceived Psalm eighty
three to be about the future. But

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okay, okay, listen. So
I started listening, and you know how

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this all played out. The first
two we did over two hours of review,

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and they never even mentioned the future. They never even explained why they

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called it that. In fact,
they kept applying Saw eighty three to the

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present for us and they and it
was really kind of just bizarre the way

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it went down. So we moved
around. We started our own work in

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SSAW eighty three. So I did
two hours of teaching on Sunday on Psalm

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eighty three, and I think we
did a relatively good job offering an introduction

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and getting us started. And I
noted over and over and over in our

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study of SSAW eighty three that the
language is describing events that were past and

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present for the original recipients, not
future. Now there's request for God to

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do something in the future, but
it's all past and present language. And

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I'm like, how do we get
this attached to Psalm aid, to the

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future, to some future Middle East
war? I was perplexed. So then

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a listener was listening to sermons on
saw Maty three, and then they sent

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me a sermon that connected the events
of Psalmadi three to Second Chronicles twenty,

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which I gave everyone an assignment to
work on. You're supposed to be producing

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charts showing me how they are similar
and different. So far, I don't

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think I've received one, but you're
supposed to be working on that, So

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please don't don't give up on that
let's continue to work on that. So

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I've been like, okay, all
right, So I haven't had the ability

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to uh to do I didn't have
the ability to do anything yesterday. Feel

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like I haven't had the ability to
do any messages for what forty eight hours,

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it feels like. But here we
are today, and I decided,

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you know what, it's Wednesday,
before we know it, this week is

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going to be over, and our
focus is week is SAW eighty three.

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So let me look up a random
sermon. So I found a random sermon

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on SAW eighty three, and this
one was Saw maighty three Israel hamas War.

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And I'm like, wait, wait, I'm confused again. I'm confused

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again. How are people getting saw
I'm eighty three And when they say Israel

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hamas war, are they talking about
the current conflict that's happening now is related

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to SAW eighty three. I'm like, I am so confused. So I

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have grabbed the audio and we're going
to listen to it now. I did

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play it long enough that I feel
that they are against the idea that PSAW

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eighty three is referencing the Israel hamas
war. I always listen for a second

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to see the volume. The volume
was too low, so I had to

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go place it into some software and
artificially increase the volume. It's still not

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loud enough. Again, I don't
know why churches record their sermons at such

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a low volume. I will never
understand that people listen on their mobile devices

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turn up the volume level. Okay, right, but I digress, I

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digress. Are you ready? I
have no idea where this is going to

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go, but as it does,
remember what are our hermeneutical phrases for today,

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ladies and gentlemen. It is what
is it descriptive? I was opening

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up in my notebook. Descriptive versus
prescriptive, past, present, future for

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the original recipients and for us literal
or spiritual. Now let's see what this

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one, this sermon is going to
do. Now, just a reminder,

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because we always have new people who
tune in and they make wild assumptions about

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what I'm doing and make wild accusations
without ever really bothering to take five seconds

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to maybe email me and ask me
some questions. Sermon reviews, I do

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not listen to the sermons in advance. The goal of a sermon review is

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not to necessarily criticize or make anyone
look bad, or attack anyone. The

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goal is to just listen to a
sermon, but I listen to it live

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on the air, and we try
to learn from it. We may agree,

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we may disagree, but what we
do is we take whatever it is

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and then we work. This is
how this entire series on Saw Madi three

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started. I listen to something.
I don't know what they were doing.

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I disagree, but I don't care
to attack them. I'm like, thank

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you for putting it online, because
now I can take it from here,

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and we're gonna go study SAW eighty
three. They put forth their hypotheses.

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I reject their hypotheses. Now we
produce our own hypotheses and how to interpret

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SAW eighty three. So many people
think it's somehow an attack. No,

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people put their sermons all over the
internet. Well, then now you want

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people to listen. I listen.
I'm like, well, okay, everyone,

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here's their perspective. Now everyone gets
to hear their perspective. They may

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agree with that perspective. Then I
put forth my perspective. They may disagree

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with mine, agree with the other, or they may agree with mine and

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disagree with the other. It's not
some like Ooh, we're out attacking.

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It would be different if I listen
to a sermon and like, this is

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a horrible sermon. Everyone, you've
got to hear this, Then it would

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become across as a rehearsed attack upon
people. I never know what's going to

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happen. Whatever happens happens. I
don't know why I have to explain that

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I've only stated that like fifty thousand
times. But I will still get some

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email. Oh you think you're better
than everyone else. Now I think I'm

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just like everyone else. We study
the Bible, we read it, we

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try to figure out what it means
right. We're supposed to interpret it right

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unless we're just going to go back
to Catholicism and agree with the magisterium.

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So guess what. I may agree, I may disagree. I'm not saying

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my position is better or worse.
I'm saying this is what I think.

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And you know what, that's what
I'm going to do. I'm going to

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read my Bible and try to interpret
it and guess what the listener gets to

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decide which one they want. So
I think what we do is interesting,

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it's unique, and it gives everyone
the ability to hear multiple perspectives in one

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message and learn a little bit of
hermeneutics as well. So are you ready?

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Here we go? Saw eighty three
Israel Hamas war. Please find the

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message on the sermon two point o
approbata dot sermon audio dot com and downloaded

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and listened to it all later without
my commentary because I like them to get

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the downloads in the streams. All
right, are you ready? Here we

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go? Dispensational futurists claim that Psalm
eighty three is a prophetic war that will

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occur yet in the future, during
or just before the seven year tribulation as

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it's commonly called. As I was
looking for such a message a sermon online,

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I came across a sermon dated October
eighth, twenty twenty three, the

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day after the October seventh attack by
Hamas in Israel, and the pastor of

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this this, this particular Baptist pastor
made statement that they have an Israeli flag

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flying alongside along with the American flag
in front of their church building. Okay,

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let's stop right here first. Don't
say futuristsalists believe Psal maybe three is

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a future war because many of us
who hold to a very futuristic idea that

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many prophecies have not yet to be
fulfilled and they will be fulfilled in the

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future. And many of us who
hold the very much more dispensational ideas,

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I don't believe Psalm eighty three is
future. See. That's why I don't

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like labels. That's why I don't
like it like I hate that. Look,

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my job is to go to the
text, and I don't care if

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it offends or agrees with any supposed
philological team out there. Dispensationalist. Guess

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what, Sometimes dispensationalists don't like me. Sometimes reform people like me. Sometimes

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reform people hate me. Sometimes non
reform people hate me. Sometimes non reform

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people like me. Sometimes people have
no idea what I think. You know?

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What I think is. My job
is to go to the Bible and

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figure it out. And I don't
care about the team. I don't care

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if it makes the Baptist mad.
I don't care if it makes the Lutherans

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mad. I don't care about anyone's
little team, because when you get caught

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up into the team or tribe mindset, then you have to interpret everything in

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agreement with that team. Well,
I don't believe one team has the corner

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on truth, because if they did, then everyone should just go to that

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team. Sometimes I take off the
lordship people. Sometimes I take off the

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free grace people. Sometimes I tick
off everyone. Is what I ultimately do.

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It's so weird, like it's a
crazy concept. When I come to

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a text, you know what,
the last thing I care about is what

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do Baptist think about it? What
a dispensationalists think about it? What to

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reform people? I don't care.
I think about what does the text say,

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based off the language that is used, and based off basic hermeneutical principles.

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What conclusion can I come to?
And you say, well, that

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conclusion contradicts your previous conclusion, I
don't even care about my previous conclusion.

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What do I always say? My
previous study has literally no influence on my

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presence study. Whatever conclusion I come
to about Psalm eighty three June twenty twenty

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four will make absolutely zero difference.
And if I study saw mayby three and

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twenty twenty five, I will throw
out everything I said about it in twenty

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twenty four. And I don't care
if I change my mind one hundred and

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ten percent. I don't care.
My job is to continue to study the

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text, study the text, study
the text, and study the text,

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and try to figure out what I
could do better, what I can understand

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better, and constantly be pursuing the
truth, ir regardless of whose team gets

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offended. I can't stand that,
like, well, everyone who's a futuristic

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dispensationalist believes saw Maty three that it's
not even Look, there are much variety

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in the dispensational camp, much variety
in those who are futuristic, there's much

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variety in those who are pre trib
I mean, the same thing is true

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in all millennialism, or in the
reform or it's always now. You can

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say, many with in a futuristic
dispensationalist perspective would possibly say saw him eighty

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three as future you know what.
That would probably be extremely accurate, but

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not all because many would classify me
as a futuristic dispensationalist. I completely reject

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saw eighty three is about a future
war. And then the second thing he

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mentioned right there, and I find
it interesting see what he did. He

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was listening to sermons. Whether you
like it or not, pastors listen to

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sermons and guess what that greatly impacts
in many cases what they're going to say.

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But so I love the fact that
he's doing what I'm doing, looking

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for something. But he mentions that
this pastor that that that he was listening

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to, that that pastor mentioned that
they have in front of their church an

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American flag in an Israeli flag.
You know my stance on this. A

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church should not have a flag of
a country anywhere on its property, not

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outside, especially not in the sanctuary. The church is not nationalistic. The

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church is a is a how can
we say a is focused on theology.

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It's focused on God. I was
gonna say theistic theological. I was going

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to use different term, but you
get the idea. The church is about

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God. The church is about scripture. The church is about theology. The

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church is not there. It's to
represent God. It's to represent the Kingdom

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of God. Our citizenship is in
Heaven. It's to we're there. If

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you want to symbol in your church, then put across. That's if you

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want to, but not flags of
a country. We're not there to promote,

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or to represent, or to honor
a nation. We're there to honor

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and represent Christ and the Kingdom of
God, We're not to be nationalistic.

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We're to be theistic, philological,
biblical, doctrinal, not I don't understand

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churches that do that. You can
walking into the church and it's like,

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there's a big an American flag.
Why Christianity is not American. I don't

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know if everyone's shocked by that.
Christianity is not American, America is not.

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I don't know why we want to
merge those two together. Christianity transcends

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national identity, so I don't know
why a church would have a flag from

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any country anywhere on its property.
But let me back this up now,

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we'll see where this goes. Dispensational
futurists claim that Psalm eighty three is a

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prophetic war that will occur yet in
the future, during or just before the

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Seven year Tribulation, as it's commonly
called. As I was looking for a

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message a sermon online, I came
across a sermon dated October eighth, twenty

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twenty three, the day after the
October seventh attack by Hamas in Israel,

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and the pastor of this particular Baptist
pastor made statement that they have an Israeli

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flag flying alongside along with the American
flag in front of their church building.

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But this message was entitled depending Psalm
eighty three war. And again I want

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to make this emphasis as we look
at Psalm eighty three and examine it scripturally

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in its historical context. Psalmighty three, they claim, is a prophetic war

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that will occur yet in the future, during or just before the seven year

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tribulation period. I want to just
focus first of all, on verses one

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through five says, keep not thou
silence, O God, hold not thy

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peace, and be not still,
O God, for low thine enemies.

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Notice thine enemies make a tumult.
And they that hate thee have lifted up

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the head. They have taken crafty
council against thy people and consulted against thy

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hidden ones. They have said,
and let us cut them off from being

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a nation, that the name of
Israel may no more be no more in

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remembrance. For they have consulted together
with one consent. Notice this, they

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have consulted together with one consent.
They are confederate against the notice against God.

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Of course, this has stated in
the form of a prayer to God.

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You notice here in the heading of
psalmighty three, a song or Psalm

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of Asaf. Asaf was a levite
during the time of David. It's very

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important for us to notice the historical
context of this psalm. Okay, now,

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a couple of things. He's emphasizing
that these enemies are enemies against God.

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Okay, now, we talked about
a little bit of this in my

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introduction. Is the psalmist emphasizing this
because they, look, we got a

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problem. Lord. We don't know
where you've been. You've been silent.

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We need you to be active because
we got a confederacy of nations trying to

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destroy us. Hey, God,
these are your enemies. Is this Is

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this like a tactic to try to
invoke God, to get God involved he

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these are your enemies? Or is
this a way of saying, Hey,

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we're your chosen nation. We're in
a covenant relationship with you. If they're

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coming against us, Hey they're your
enemies because they're going against the nation you

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entered into covenant with. Right.
Is this kind of a way to invoke

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God? Right? So we have
to at least consider that. So we

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talked about that the language speaks of
something that is currently happening at that time,

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which is is how I emphasized it. But I do appreciate that.

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Now he's going to look at the
historical context. That is really really that's

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really good. I'm interesting where he's
going to go with the fact that these

404
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:44.039
are God, that the Psalmist keep
saying that these are your enemies of God.

405
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:47.640
How he's going to approach that.
And I love the fact that he's

406
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:51.000
going to go historical context. Now, is he going to connect us to

407
00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:56.720
second Chronicles twenty? Is he going
to connect it to something else? What

408
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:00.559
is he going to do? Let's
find out. Now. Asaf is a

409
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:06.200
was a Levite during the time of
David. He was a music leader according

410
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:11.359
to First Chronicles fifteen and sixteen,
First Chronicles twenty five, and Second Chronicles

411
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:17.839
twenty nine. So he was a
music leader in the organization that David had

412
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:22.880
set up as far as the music
for the Tabernacle Future Temple. Now,

413
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:27.920
if you remember the last sermon we
reviewed, they said that the King called

414
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:33.359
in Asaff to compose basically a prayer, something of worship for the people.

415
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:37.720
Now i've one of the assignments I
said, is Asaf mentioned the second Chronicles

416
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:41.519
twenty Do we have anything that says
the king called him in and said,

417
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.000
hey, compose this that was stated
almost dogmatically in the other sermon we reviewed,

418
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:48.160
and I don't think anyone has sent
me anything on that as well.

419
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:51.119
In other words, you got a
lot of work to be doing on Second

420
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:53.880
Chronicles twenty. So but he doesn't
now mention he mentioned Asaff. And guess

421
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:59.200
what chapter he skipped. He didn't
mention Asaf in Second Chronicles twenty. Now

422
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:05.000
he's focusing on how he's mentioned as
a worship later. But maybe he'll mention

423
00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:12.319
it in a minute. Here we'll
see Palm eighty three is the final Psalm

424
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:16.920
of Asaf, and Psalm fifty was
a psalm of Asaff, and then Psalm

425
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:23.319
seventy three through eighty three are labeled
as a song or psalm of Asaf.

426
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:29.839
The descendants of Asaff, known as
the Sons of Asaff, were part of

427
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:35.519
the temple choir. Now want for
us to consider the historical context of Psalm

428
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:38.160
eighty three. I believe it's very
important for us to understand this because we're

429
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:43.599
going to see in our study that
some of these nations are no longer in

430
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:50.279
existence today, So how can this
be a future a future war against Israel?

431
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:54.880
For Samuel fourteen. For Samuel fourteen, versus forty seven and forty eight

432
00:32:55.640 --> 00:33:00.759
gives us a clue here as far
as king King Saul says the First Samuel

433
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:05.839
fourteen, verse forty seven. So
Saul took the kingdom over Israel, and

434
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.920
fought against all his enemies on every
side. Notice the list here against Moab

435
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:15.440
to the southeast, and against the
children of Ammon towards the southeast, and

436
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:22.839
against Edom again directionally's southeast, and
against the kings of Zoba, which is

437
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:29.759
Syria, against the Philistines southwest,
and whithersoever he turned himself. He vexed

438
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:35.920
them, and he gathered and host
and smote the Amalekites, and delivered Israel

439
00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:38.319
out of the hands of them that
spoiled them. Now, the reason why

440
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:45.000
I want to emphasize this passage relation
to the reign of King Saul. These

441
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:46.920
are many of the nations that are
mentioned in Saul eighty three, as we

442
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:51.039
will see in a moment. I
also want you to notice here as far

443
00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:55.759
as the time of David. Second
Samuel Chapter eight. Second Samuel Chapter eight,

444
00:33:55.880 --> 00:34:01.079
verses one through fourteen, also gives
us a clue as far as the

445
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:07.280
historical context of Psalm eighty three.
Tewod Samuel eight verses one through fourteen.

446
00:34:07.360 --> 00:34:13.280
And after this it came to pass
that David smote the Philistines and subdued them.

447
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:17.400
And David took meThe Gamma out of
the hand of the Philistines, and

448
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:22.119
he smote moab and measured them with
a line, casting them down to the

449
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:25.159
ground. Even with two lines measured
he to put to death, and with

450
00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:30.039
one full line to keep alive.
And so the Moabites became David's servants and

451
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:36.840
brought gifts. David smote also hated
Deezer, the son of Rihab, king

452
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.360
of Zobah, which is a part
of Syria, as he went to recover

453
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:45.719
his border at the river Euphrates,
and David took from him a thousand chariots

454
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:52.480
and seven hundred horsemen and twenty thousand
footmen. And David howed all the chariot

455
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:57.119
horses and reserved of them for one
hundred chariots. Now what David does here

456
00:34:57.159 --> 00:35:04.599
is he debilitates for future military He's
basically limiting the use of those horses.

457
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:08.599
And when the Syrians of Damascus came
to succor, hated Eeser king of Zoba,

458
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:13.320
noticed the Syrians of Damascus. Now, so these are different parts of

459
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:19.760
the area we commonly know as Syria
today. David slew the Syrians two and

460
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:24.639
twenty thousand men. Then David put
garrisons in Syria of Damascus, and the

461
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:30.760
Syrians became servants to David and brought
gifts, and the Lord preserved David whithersoever

462
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:35.360
he went. And David took the
shields of gold that were on the servants

463
00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:40.719
of Haydedieser and brought them to Jerusalem, and from Beta even to Biothi,

464
00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:47.480
cities of Hatedeser. David took exceeding
much brass. When TOI, king of

465
00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:52.679
Heymath, heard that David had smitten
all the hosts of Hated Deeser. Then

466
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:58.639
TOI sent Joram, his son unto
King David, to salute him and to

467
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:01.519
bless him, as he had fought
against Hated Deeser and smitten him, for

468
00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:07.119
Hated Aesar had wars with Toai.
Again, these are different regions of Syria,

469
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:10.000
and Joram brought with him vessels of
silver and vessels of gold, and

470
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:15.239
vessels of brass, which also King
David did dedicate unto the Lord, with

471
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:19.800
the silver and gold that he had
dedicated of all nations which he subdued,

472
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:24.039
of Syria and of Moab Norise the
list here the children of Ammon, of

473
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:29.159
the Philistines, and of Amelek,
and the spoil of Hated Deeser, son

474
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:32.639
of Rihab, king of Zoba.
And David got him name a name when

475
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:37.079
he returned from smiting the Syrians in
the Valley of Salt, being eighteen thousand

476
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:42.519
men, and he put garrisons in
Edom. Notice again, all of these

477
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:46.920
nations that are mentioned here that we
will see in psalmighty three throughout all Edom

478
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:52.599
put he garrisons, and all they
of Edom became David's servants, and the

479
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:57.679
Lord preserved David whithersoever he went.
As we think about the historical context,

480
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:05.559
I believe PSALMATEI three is both historical
and prophetic in its nature. Okay,

481
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:08.039
we may have a new approach here, all right, So we've listened to

482
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:13.119
one that said, well, they
never really articulated it, but they seem

483
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:15.760
to be implying by their title that
it's a coming Middle East war. We

484
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:21.280
never they never really articulated the second
sermon that we reviewed, or the second

485
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:23.239
different one, because we reviewed two
sermons in that one series, saying it

486
00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:25.559
was a coming Middle East War.
They just never got to the Middle East

487
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:29.920
War part. Maybe they will later
on, and maybe we'll have to review

488
00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:31.960
some more from that series. I
don't know. The first two did not

489
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:36.159
help us much, but the next
sermon we reviewed said that, no,

490
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:40.239
this was fulfilled and Second Chronicles twenty, now this one says it was past

491
00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:45.599
and future, that it does have
a prophetic nature, that it's passed and

492
00:37:46.119 --> 00:37:53.199
prophetic. All right, So that's
interesting. Now he quotes from those passages

493
00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:58.159
of the past. So is he
saying saw maybe three is referencing to what

494
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:06.639
happened under Saul and David? I
mean maybe maybe you know it's possible.

495
00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:09.039
I guess. I don't know.
I would. I mean, I know

496
00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:15.760
it's it's got similar the similar nations, So m I don't know, I

497
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:17.360
don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know.

498
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:21.920
Does it fit better? Second Chronicles
twenty. Here's what I want you to

499
00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:29.039
realize is that we're finding there's not
much agreement. And when there's not much

500
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.760
agreement, then we have to figure
out why is it? Is there a

501
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:38.119
hermeneutical issue here? Is it because
nobody knows? Is it because maybe we

502
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:42.559
should all stop acting to be so
dogmatic. He seems to be pretty sure

503
00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:46.960
and pretty clear. Let's see where
where he's gonna take this. Now,

504
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:52.559
saw maybe three is what we would
call fulfilled prophecy now not future prophecy.

505
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:58.440
And for this, I want you
to understand Second Chronicles twenty, I believe

506
00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:04.800
is the fulfillment of eighty three in
its prophecy nature. For Oh, there

507
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:07.440
we go. So he's saying it's
fulfilled for us. It may have been

508
00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:14.519
prophetic for the original recipients, and
it was fulfilled in Second Chronicles twenty.

509
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:17.800
So this is gonna be another sermon
that points us to Second Chronicles twenty.

510
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:21.880
Okay, that makes more. I
didn't know exactly where he was going.

511
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:25.199
That makes sense. So he's saying
that this that Psalm eighty three was written.

512
00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:30.599
Again, I struggle with it's a
fulfillment of it. I'm saying Psalm

513
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:35.880
eighty This is the way I keep
saying it. Psalm eighty three's context is

514
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:40.400
Second Chronicles twenty. That during the
events of Second Chronicles twenty, Psawm eighty

515
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:45.119
three is composed. And that's kind
of how the other sermon he's like,

516
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:50.480
he calls in Asaf to compose this
with this is during that time. So

517
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:53.360
is it a prophecy. I don't
know why we want to make it a

518
00:39:53.360 --> 00:40:01.639
prophecy. It's a prayer during a
very difficult situation which God ultimately answered.

519
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:07.800
I don't know if I would call
it prophetic as much as it's petitioning God

520
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:13.559
in the midst of a difficult situation. And we know how the situation turned

521
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:20.280
out, because we have Second Chronicles
twenty fedec nature, I should say second

522
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:25.880
Chronicles twenty as we think about King
Jehashaphat in his time as a king in

523
00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:30.599
Judah. Again, what I want
for us to see in these passages is

524
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:34.960
the nations that are mentioned in psalmatey
three are mentioned in these passages. It

525
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:40.679
gives us the historical context of psalmighty
three. It came to pass after this

526
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:45.039
also that the children of Moab and
the children of Ammon, and with them

527
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:52.199
other beside the Ammonites came against Jehashafat
to battle. Then there came some that

528
00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:55.239
told Jehashafat, saying, there comes
a great multitude against thee from beyond the

529
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:59.920
sea, the salt sea, the
Dead sea, on this side Syria.

530
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:06.320
And behold they be in hazes on
Tamar which is in Geddi, and Jehashaphat

531
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:09.519
feared and set himself to seek the
Lord and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah,

532
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:14.400
and Judah gathered themselves together to ask
help of the Lord, even out

533
00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:17.559
of all the cities of Judah,
that they came to seek the Lord.

534
00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:23.480
Now, Second Chronicles twenty four.
Second Chronicles Chapter twenty, verses one through

535
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:27.880
four, to me, really does
set up the historical picture of Psaw eighty

536
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:30.639
three. Hey, there's this nation's
coming against you. Oh no, let's

537
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:35.199
cry out to God, which is
exactly what Asaf did. And from what

538
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:38.400
we can tell, Asaft there was
alive at least for part of the reign

539
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:45.079
of Jehosephat, so we seem to
be able to at least get that timing

540
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:47.519
right. So this, to me, Psaw eighty three is a prayer in

541
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:52.079
the midst of the events that are
described in Second Chronicles twenty. They're also

542
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:55.960
described in Psalm eighty three. And
now here's the prayer in the midst of

543
00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:00.480
that. And then Second Chronicles twenty
may show you how God answered that prayer

544
00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:07.440
or intervene and during this very difficult
situation, that may be the way to

545
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:13.519
approach it. But let's see where
he's going to go. Jehashfah stood in

546
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:15.800
the congregation of Judah and Jerusalem,
and in the House of the Lord before

547
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:19.079
the New Court, and said,
Oh, Lord, God of our fathers,

548
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.239
art not thou God in heaven and
rulest not thou over all the kingdoms

549
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:25.960
of the Heathen. As we think
about the prayer of Psalmatey three, I

550
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:32.079
want you to notice here the words
of King Jehashafat. In thine hand is

551
00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:37.079
there not power and might, so
that none is able to withstand thee?

552
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:40.639
Art Not thou are God, who
didst drive out the inhabitants of this land

553
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:45.679
before thy people Israel, and gavest
it to the seat of Abraham, thy

554
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:51.559
friend forever. And they dwelt therein
and have built thee sanctuary therein for thy

555
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.679
name, saying, if when evil
cometh upon us, as the sword,

556
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:59.800
judgment, or pestilence or famine,
we stand before this house and in thy

557
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:04.000
pray for Thy name is in this
house, and cry unto thee in our

558
00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:07.199
affliction, then thou wilt hear and
help. And now behold, notice the

559
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:13.800
children of Ammon and Moab and Mount
Sier. So we think Aboutmite, the

560
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.800
Edomites, here, Ammon and Moab. So again we see here the emphasis

561
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:21.920
on these nations, and of course
God gave them the victory as they praise

562
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:25.239
the Lord in Second Chronicles, chapter
twenty. Now, as we think about

563
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:29.360
Psalm eighty three, I want you
to consider the spirit of this Solomon.

564
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:35.159
It's a national distress. Here's the
prayer that is said. In this spirit

565
00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:39.079
of national distress. Keep not thou
silence, Oh God, hold not thy

566
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:44.320
peace, and be not still,
o God, for lo thine enemies,

567
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:47.920
God's enemies make a tumult. And
they that hate THEE have lifted up the

568
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:53.599
head. They have taken crafty counsel
against thy people and consulted against thy hidden

569
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:58.000
ones. They have said, come
and let us cut them off from being

570
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:01.000
a nation that the name of israe
or may no more be in remembrance.

571
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:07.880
For they have consulted together with one
consent. They are confederate against Thee.

572
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:13.119
Now we have the list of the
confederacy that was coming against the nation of

573
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:19.280
Israel. Again I'm emphasizing. I'm
suggesting to you that this prophetic nature of

574
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:24.079
this psalm was fulfilled in the time
of Jehoshaphat I'm gonna prove that by looking

575
00:44:24.199 --> 00:44:30.039
at each of these nations that are
listed. Again, I know he's saying

576
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:36.559
prophetic. I just this does not
get This is a communal lament. This

577
00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:39.000
is a lament during a time of
a communal lament, during a time of

578
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:44.840
national distress right now. So I
don't see it as being prophetic, as

579
00:44:44.840 --> 00:44:49.920
saying, Hey, jehosephat is crying
out to God, Asaf is composing something

580
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:52.039
to get the people of God or
the people of Israel to cry out to

581
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:57.159
God. Everyone's crying out to God, and everyone is aware of the exact

582
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:00.519
same situation. There is a confederacy
of na Is coming to destroy us.

583
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:04.360
God, where have you been?
You have been silent. We need you

584
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:12.519
to do something immediately. These are
your enemies. I would say Second Chronicles

585
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:16.559
may describe how God answered said prayer, but I don't perceive it as being

586
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:22.000
prophetic. I just see it as
being a prayer during a time of distress.

587
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:27.400
And Second Chronicles twenty gives us the
historical context for the prayer and gives

588
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:36.599
us the historical fulfillment of are the
historical answer to said prayer. That's how

589
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:43.400
I would word it, And see
if they are still even in existence today.

590
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:47.679
The first nation found in verse six
is the Tabernacles of Edom. So

591
00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:52.840
we have the Edomites, the Tabernacles
of Edom. Of course, these are

592
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:58.519
descendants of Esau. As far as
a location to understand where it is today,

593
00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:02.599
where it would be today is present
day southwestern Jordan. They were located

594
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:07.400
between the Dead Sea and the Gulf
of Akaba, and it's part of the

595
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:13.599
Red Sea. There. Edom as
a nation ceased to exist when they were

596
00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:19.639
conquered by Babylon and King Nebukinzer in
the sixth century BC. I'm gonna say

597
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:22.400
that again because this right here,
right at the start of the list of

598
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:28.679
these confederate nations, we see that
the Edomites are no longer in existence today.

599
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:32.079
They ceased to exist as a nation
when they were conquered by Babylon,

600
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:38.440
clear back to the sixth century before
Christ. You think about Herod the Great.

601
00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:44.199
Herod the Great was an Idumian.
He was a descendant of Esau.

602
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:47.800
But he was not a king of
the Edomites. He was a king of

603
00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:53.119
the Jews. Why because he was
an Edomite with no nation. He was

604
00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:58.599
an Edomite who had no nation.
Again, edom was destroyed as a nation

605
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:02.719
by the King of Balon. In
an online search there was a summary statement

606
00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:07.639
that I want to mention here as
far as the Edomites today, the descendants

607
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:14.360
are lost to history. Did you
catch that they are lost to history and

608
00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:19.599
their DNA lives on in some sense, but they are so intermixed with other

609
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:24.840
peoples that there is no definable genetic
group of Edomites today. Let me just

610
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:29.199
point this out. Just because there
is a nation in the area of Mount

611
00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:32.280
Seer today where the Edomites would have
been found if they were still in existence,

612
00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:37.719
that does not mean they are Edomites. As an example, you think

613
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:42.880
about in history, you have the
Mayan Empire. Where where can you find

614
00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:46.079
the Mayan Empire today? That does
not mean they are not Mayans still in

615
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:52.199
existence, but as an empire they're
no longer found. So just because there's

616
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:57.599
a nation occupying the area where the
Edomites existed, that does not mean that

617
00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:00.079
they are that there are still Edomites
as far as any So right from the

618
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:02.840
top of the list here we see
that edom is no longer a nation.

619
00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:08.480
How can this be a fulfillment or
a future prophecy that is yet unfulfilled if

620
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:12.360
there are not even Edomites. So
that's the first on the list. Second

621
00:48:12.360 --> 00:48:16.559
on the list are the Ishmaelites.
The Arabic nations today the twelve tribes of

622
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:22.480
Ishmael are implicitly found wherever the Arab
culture and language exist. So I have

623
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:27.599
my notes here one for one.
So the Edomites are no longer in existence,

624
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:34.159
but the Arabs, the Ishmaelites.
This is an interesting kind of polemic

625
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:39.280
against the concept, the kind of
an argument against or his apologetic against the

626
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:44.920
dispensational futurist. I think is how
I think o them, futurists, dispensationalist,

627
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.920
dispensational futurists, however you would like
to describe them. And when I

628
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:52.719
say them, is because I don't
like being identified as a team, because

629
00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:55.320
I'm going to tick off all the
teams. I just think that this is

630
00:48:55.400 --> 00:49:00.440
an interesting approach. Hey, if
I can show you these nations I don't

631
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:06.679
exist, therefore it cannot be a
future fulfillment. I'm not necessarily a big

632
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:09.599
fan of that concept. And let
me explain why. That was the same

633
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:13.840
argument that would have been used by
many of the Church fathers and saying,

634
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:15.320
well, God has done with Israel
and has been replaced by the Church.

635
00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:20.159
Why because Israel is a key as
a nation doesn't exist, Well, guess

636
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:24.119
what happened in nineteen forty eight.
So I'm not a fan necessarily of that.

637
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:29.280
What I would argue is, there's
nothing in this text that points to

638
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:32.440
a future. It's pointing to a
past present in the very situation that they're

639
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:37.760
in, based off the language that
is used, and it fits perfectly with

640
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:42.440
Second Chronicles, chapter twenty. And
I gave this as a question. I'm

641
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:45.800
still waiting for someone to answer it. Does Psal is Psalm eighty three ever

642
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:50.320
quoted in the New Testament? And
if it is, is it ever quoted

643
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:58.920
to be pointing to some future prophecy? That would be more of my polemic

644
00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:04.960
against the futurist or dispensational futurist.
As he keeps saying, they all believe

645
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:07.920
this, anyone who believes Saw Many
three is pointing to a future war that

646
00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:13.039
you've got you gotta do. You've
gotta show me something textually to prove that

647
00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:15.760
argument. Now here, he just
but already he's down one. He's one

648
00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:20.000
one for one. Well, the
first one doesn't really exist today, but

649
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:23.639
the second one does. Okay,
maybe he's gonna end up with more that

650
00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:28.840
don't than more that do. I
just that's not to me a I would

651
00:50:28.840 --> 00:50:31.480
not approach it from from that perspective. But well, let's let him.

652
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:36.239
I guess he's just gonna go through
the list and do We'll see if the

653
00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:38.800
sermon's going to go any other direction
other than this is his entire thesis,

654
00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:44.320
and that's what he's going to do. Let's find out the descendants of Ishmael

655
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:49.000
are. The third on the list
is Moab. The location of Moab would

656
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:52.239
be in southern Jordan today. The
Moabites as a nation were conquered by the

657
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:58.039
Babylonians in five eighty three BC.
Listen to this statement. The descendants of

658
00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:02.559
Moab, who have remained in the
same geographical area as their forefathers, now

659
00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:07.559
call themselves Jordanians. All right,
so Moeb we could say it's still in

660
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:15.960
existence, at least theoretically. The
fourth on list are the Haggarens. All

661
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:20.199
right. So you've got the Ishmaelites
and the Moabites still exist, So you're

662
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:22.239
two for one. So I mean, like, is this gonna come down

663
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:28.679
to just what I don't like doing. I don't like doing polemics and apologetics

664
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:31.079
and arguments. This way like I
would, I need something better to me

665
00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:36.719
The text itself, the language that
is used is speaking of past present situation.

666
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:40.719
It fits perfectly with the description of
Second Chronicles twenty. And unless you

667
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:44.960
can produce something in the New Testament
that says, see, this is going

668
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:47.840
to be fulfilled here, you know, and it quotes from Saw eighty three.

669
00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:51.840
If you don't have that, then
I don't look. It would be

670
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:55.960
if you're making the affirmative argument that
this is about a future war, then

671
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:01.280
it would be up to you to
prove that. So I mean, you're

672
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:07.320
making the affirmative argument, and you
would have to then counter what is clear

673
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:12.599
textually and contextually. But this I
don't know. I like this approach.

674
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:17.800
But let's see where his tally ends
up. Of course, these are descendants

675
00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:23.280
of hagar The Hagarites is also it's
also mentioned in scripture. First Chronicles,

676
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:29.280
chapter five talks about the Rubenites and
the tribes on the east side of Jordan

677
00:52:29.719 --> 00:52:35.320
doing battle with the Hagarins, the
Hagarites in the days of King Saul.

678
00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:38.639
Now, as far as the location
we're talking about, northeast of Ammon and

679
00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:44.599
Moab, which is modern day Jordan, and again this is an area east

680
00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:50.239
of the Jordan River. The Hagarins
are actually distinct from the Arabs. It's

681
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:55.199
very possible that Hagar married and had
other children besides Ishmael, so that these

682
00:52:55.239 --> 00:53:00.920
are the descendants of Hagar, So
they are distinct and separate from the Ishmaelites.

683
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:05.639
But as far as an historical group
of people, the Hagarines have disappeared

684
00:53:05.719 --> 00:53:10.880
from history. The next on the
list is Gibhl Geeball. According to Ezekiel

685
00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:15.639
twenty seven, verse nine says this
the ancients, the old men of gebl

686
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:23.280
were repairers of ship seams, what
the Bible calls calkers. Giball was associated

687
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:30.920
with Phoenicia near Tire and Gibal was
a seaport town, and people recognize it

688
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:37.280
as Bibloss Lebanon today. So we
are so we have the Lebanese. These

689
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:42.199
people still exist Ammon Ammon of course, or descendants of a lot. According

690
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:47.239
to Genesis nineteen, Ammon in its
neighboring countries Moab and Edom do not exist,

691
00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:52.039
as they are now part of the
modern day Kingdom of Jordan. Again,

692
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:57.320
what I'm emphasizing is just because someone
occupies the area in which they existed

693
00:53:57.400 --> 00:54:02.840
does not mean these nations still exist, so Ammon is not a distinct group

694
00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:08.400
of people anymore. The northern third
of the modern state of Jordan is where

695
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:13.840
Ammon would have been located in Bible
times. The next on the list is

696
00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:19.159
Amelek, the Amalekites. Now,
the Amalekites are not from grandson, the

697
00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:22.960
grandson of Esau in Genesis thirty six. This grandson of Esau may have been

698
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:29.840
named after Amelek, but the Amalekites
actually date back to Genesis fourteen seven and

699
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.920
before that, because we see a
reference of the country the country of the

700
00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:40.000
Amalekites, So we see that before
Esau had a grand grandson named Amelek,

701
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:49.239
the country the Amalekites existed in the
time of Abraham. A Jewish website had

702
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:55.719
these statements to make about Amelek.
The Amalekite nation assimilated into the people around

703
00:54:55.840 --> 00:55:01.360
them, so there's no distinct Amalekite
today. Again, this is a Jewish

704
00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:07.480
website that claims this their national identity
was dissolved. God's command to kill them

705
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:13.760
became impossible to fulfill. So then
there's this statement that I quote from this

706
00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:17.440
website. Amelek is alive and well
today, albeit in a different form.

707
00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:23.719
The longer a foreign nation, today's
amelek is an internal enemy end quote.

708
00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:28.519
Now here's the problem with that.
As we see in Saul maybe three,

709
00:55:28.599 --> 00:55:35.880
these are actual nations that are coming
against Israel in a confederacy. Okay,

710
00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:39.480
he saying he's looking up statements on
websites, you're not telling us. In

711
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:45.840
many cases the websites themselves. So
I am not disagreeing with the information provided.

712
00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:49.440
What I would challenge you if you
think this is a very important polemic

713
00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:54.400
to develop an argumentation, to develop
against the idea that this is a future

714
00:55:54.440 --> 00:55:58.880
war, I don't think we need
this. To argue against the future war,

715
00:55:59.199 --> 00:56:01.280
you would have to do more than
just look up one side, right,

716
00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:07.920
because I guarantee you the dispensationalist futurist
probably would provide information that would argue,

717
00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:10.639
no, well, these nations do
exist, or these people do exist

718
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:15.519
and these will rise up as a
nation, or they would provide some argumentation

719
00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:19.039
against it. So what you would
need to do if you're going to make

720
00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:24.400
a polemic is first provide the dispensational
future argument. That's the first thing you

721
00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:30.119
would have to do is provide their
argument and how they how they would explain

722
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:35.119
this right, then you would have
to look up numerous sites to say whether

723
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:38.039
these people exist or not exist,
and see if that actually argues against the

724
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:44.159
argument put forth by a dispensationalist futurist. I'm going to look, I think

725
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:46.800
right over here. Now, I
know this is not very professional, but

726
00:56:46.840 --> 00:56:50.840
I'm going to get up and I'm
going to go pick up my scho filled

727
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:52.400
study Bible. So I'm going to
go pick it up. It's right here,

728
00:56:54.440 --> 00:56:58.239
it's right here. It was just
I looked over and I saw it,

729
00:56:58.280 --> 00:57:00.599
and I'm like, oh, I've
got to do something. I've got

730
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:05.440
to go look at it. All
right, I'm gonna get here's scho filled

731
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:12.480
because you know he says that you
know all dispensational futurists believe this, Well,

732
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:16.159
guess what. Schofield doesn't even have
a note Saw maighty three. He

733
00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:21.360
doesn't have a note, he doesn't
have anything, he doesn't have any there's

734
00:57:21.400 --> 00:57:25.559
nothing. They're not a thing nothing. So I mean, the the goal

735
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:30.280
to for dispensationalists would be saw would
be the Schofield study Bible. And he

736
00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:36.559
does not have anything for Saw many
three a song or a psalm of Asaf

737
00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:42.960
and it just has the text.
There's no notes, So it would be

738
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:47.840
interesting to know when Saw maighty three
becomes so important for dispensational dispensational futurist.

739
00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:52.119
But his argument here is just like, well I looked up on a website

740
00:57:52.639 --> 00:57:54.159
and it said this, and I
looked up on a website and it said

741
00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:57.800
this, and I looked up a
note. Well, this website said that

742
00:57:57.840 --> 00:58:00.239
these people don't exist, but it
also said they kind of exist today.

743
00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:01.239
Is an internal line? Well,
no, no, no, I disagree

744
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:05.760
with that. Well then do you
disagree with the first part? Do you

745
00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:09.440
like? So like, what are
these like? What are these sites?

746
00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:13.840
So? I mean that's where I
would you know, I almost want to

747
00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:17.440
go through each one of them and
ask artificial intelligence what artificial intelligence thinks?

748
00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:21.320
You could do that? If you're
using one of the AI apps today,

749
00:58:21.519 --> 00:58:23.840
you could look them all up and
go ahead, Do the Ittomites still exist

750
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:30.079
as a as a people or as
an or does Thetamites exist as a people

751
00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:35.960
and a nation? Yes or no? Something along those lines. And then

752
00:58:36.199 --> 00:58:38.480
how about the Ishmaelites, how about
the Moabites, how about the hagwrites,

753
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:45.119
how about gibel GiB Gibbelites? How
you would say, gieball Ammonites, am

754
00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:52.519
Alek are the Amalekites. However you
would pronounce them Philistines or Pelistia. And

755
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:55.119
then see what AI would argue,
Now, as long as the people still

756
00:58:55.159 --> 00:59:00.280
exist, then all it would require
for them is to form aation. Right.

757
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:05.280
So again, if you're if you're
arguing against a dispensational futurist, they

758
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:07.320
would be like, well, there
was a time Israel didn't exist. As

759
00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:09.280
long as the Jews existed, they
could form a nation. Well why couldn't

760
00:59:09.320 --> 00:59:15.400
these other nations at some point take
power, gain control over a segment of

761
00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:17.719
land, and declare them to be
a nation. So then, like you

762
00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:22.440
would be arguing, you're arguing over
a future event based on a present condition.

763
00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:30.440
Well when when when? Guess what? Guess what someone could have said,

764
00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:32.440
Hey, a virgin is going to
have a child. Well guess what,

765
00:59:32.679 --> 00:59:37.119
ladies and gentlemen, no virgin ever
has So we are you know,

766
00:59:38.079 --> 00:59:43.239
we're six billion to zero, So
I don't think a virgin is ever going

767
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:46.280
to have a child. Right,
will God himself take upon human flesh and

768
00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:52.880
then literally die and bean raise?
Well that's never happened. Just because something

769
00:59:52.159 --> 00:59:58.360
doesn't quote unquote exist or has I
don't know how you can just argue from

770
00:59:58.360 --> 01:00:01.199
a biblical standpoint that it never will. I mean, the Bible describes lots

771
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:04.599
of things in the future, right, have we ever? I mean,

772
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:07.400
I mean, I don't know.
I just don't know what that's a good

773
01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:12.440
polemic to use. I think it's
valid information to provide. Hey, these

774
01:00:12.559 --> 01:00:15.920
nations don't exist or some of these
some of them do, some of them

775
01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:21.400
don't. So if someone says it's
a future event, well something dramatic would

776
01:00:21.400 --> 01:00:23.440
have to happen for that future event
to occur. However, for those of

777
01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:27.599
us who believe the Bible, there's
been plenty. Hey it's going to rain,

778
01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:31.320
well, most believe Noah had no
idea what rain was, Right,

779
01:00:31.480 --> 01:00:36.760
I'm gonna flood the earth. That
only happened one time. There's plenty of

780
01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:40.119
situations where it never had happened before, and it's never gonna happen again.

781
01:00:42.159 --> 01:00:45.960
So if this is a future war, I just don't know if you can

782
01:00:45.079 --> 01:00:50.440
argue from it from that perspective the
way he's arguing against it. Let's go

783
01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:52.800
a little bit further. I think
that's just going to be the entire sermon

784
01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:59.320
here. We're not talking about some
kind of spirit of Amlek. We're talking

785
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:05.000
about a nation that no longer exists. Today, Israel has claimed to obedience,

786
01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:09.920
claimed obedience to God's command to destroy
the Amalekites in their attack on Gaza

787
01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:15.239
and Hamas in this article. In
an article from the Jewish Journal October twenty

788
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:22.239
sixth, twenty twenty three, the
title of this article was Hamas Today's Amelek.

789
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:27.400
Of course, we understand from scripture
that in Exodus seventeen the Amalekites attacked

790
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:31.440
israel As after they had left Egypt. I want you to hear the words.

791
01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:36.360
Listen carefully to the words of Deuteromi
twenty five, verses seventeen through nineteen.

792
01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:39.800
Remember what Amelek did unto THEE by
the way, when ye were come

793
01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:44.800
forth out of Egypt. How he
met THEE by the way and smote the

794
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:50.119
hindmost of thee. So talking about
an ambush, an attack upon the nation,

795
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:53.840
the hindmost of thee, even all
that were feeble behind THEE, when

796
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:59.320
thou wast faint and weary, and
he feared not God. Therefore it shall

797
01:01:59.360 --> 01:02:06.360
be when the Thy God hath given
thee rest from all thine enemies roundabout in

798
01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:09.519
the land which the Lord thy God
giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it,

799
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:14.480
that thou shalt blot out the remembrance
of Amelek from under heaven, thou

800
01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:19.039
shalt not forget it. I wanted
you to understand and listen to this quote

801
01:02:19.079 --> 01:02:24.199
here from this Jewish journal. The
Amalekites, eternal enemies of the Jewish people,

802
01:02:24.199 --> 01:02:30.039
are said to be the embodiment of
pure evil, just as the Nazis

803
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:34.400
were. The twentieth centuries version of
Amelek. Hamas has proven that they are

804
01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:38.639
the Amelek of today. Now here's
the problem with this again, Psalm eighty

805
01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:45.840
three verses. I'm somewhat baffled by
this because if this is a polemic against

806
01:02:45.079 --> 01:02:51.079
dispensational futurists, why are you quoting
from a Jewish website, Unless it's a

807
01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:57.199
Messianic Jewish website who happened to be
dispensational futurists. Wouldn't you quote from a

808
01:02:57.320 --> 01:03:06.320
dispensational futurist website or a dispensational future
sermon or futurists a sermon or commentary like

809
01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:09.079
I just find it interesting that this
is a polemic against dispensational futurists. But

810
01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:14.960
he's quoting from a Jewish website that
he's not identified. Are these Orthodox Jews?

811
01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:17.519
Are they? Well? I mean, what, like what form of

812
01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:22.760
Judaism? Like what are you referencing
here? Like, I have no I

813
01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:27.320
have no context in which to critique
or analyze what is being stated. I

814
01:03:27.360 --> 01:03:29.920
have no way of looking any of
this up. It just seems like you

815
01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:36.000
would be quoting from you know,
the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of things

816
01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:40.639
produced by dispensational futurists that now look
like that's where you would go and say,

817
01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:45.440
here's the book, here's the commentary, here is their argument, here's

818
01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:49.199
why the argument is wrong. And
basically his argument is because these people don't

819
01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:52.599
exist, and if they don't exist
now, well, then the argument is

820
01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:54.599
they will never exist. Therefore it
cannot be a future war. But that's

821
01:03:54.760 --> 01:04:01.000
arguing that future things must be like
the current thing. But future things throughout

822
01:04:01.159 --> 01:04:05.360
Scripture proved to be things that had
not been seen before, correct. I

823
01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:09.559
mean, like when you get if
you're going to hold to any of the

824
01:04:09.559 --> 01:04:13.440
things prophetically in the future, many
of those things described in the Book of

825
01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:17.360
Revelation would not be things that we
have seen presently, right, So,

826
01:04:17.639 --> 01:04:23.400
I mean that's the whole thing about
seventy eighty. You've never seen anything like

827
01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:27.519
this before. That was kind of
some of the things talked about in seventy

828
01:04:27.519 --> 01:04:30.679
eighty. Well, I mean,
again, I struggle even with that language.

829
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:33.079
But the point is is, I
don't know, I don't know.

830
01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:40.920
I'm just having a hard time following
the logical argument here. Six presents Amelek

831
01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:46.440
as an alliance nation, not an
internal spirit. This is not a fulfillment.

832
01:04:46.840 --> 01:04:51.599
The spirit of Amelek is not a
fulfillment of Psalm eighty three Versus six.

833
01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:58.320
Now, I do agree with that
the spirit of Amelek is not a

834
01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:02.599
fulfillment of Psaw eighty se the future
the spirit of Amlek is alive and well

835
01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:04.960
today. That would not be a
fulfillment of so many three. Now I

836
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:09.800
reject saw eighty three being a future
prophecy. I think Psaw Maty three occurred

837
01:05:09.880 --> 01:05:13.719
during the time of Second Chronicles twenty, that this is my feelings now,

838
01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:16.800
and this is the prayer that would
have been uttered during that time, and

839
01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:21.519
then Second Chronicles twenty would tell you
how that prayer ultimately plays out. You

840
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:26.199
need to look up, and you're
supposed to be drawing a comparison chart between

841
01:05:26.199 --> 01:05:30.960
psaal Maty three and Second Chronicles twenty. So that's that's where I am.

842
01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:38.480
So But okay, well let's just
continue. So as again as we understand

843
01:05:38.599 --> 01:05:44.320
the statements here made in PSL maenty
three, we're seeing this as a confederacy

844
01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:47.719
of nations, not a spirit of
Amlek. So the country the Malakite states

845
01:05:47.719 --> 01:05:53.960
clear back to the time before Abraham. So where's the country the Amalekites?

846
01:05:55.000 --> 01:06:00.639
This is the statement from Knave's topical
Bible A people inhabiting the the cut south

847
01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:05.880
of Ajumea eat them and east of
the Red Sea. There is no country

848
01:06:05.880 --> 01:06:13.280
of the Amalekites today. Number thirteen
twenty nine them out. Now there he

849
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:15.639
gives us a reference Knave's topical babble. That's good, all right, So

850
01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:18.119
now I can look that up.
I can look that up. That's great.

851
01:06:18.280 --> 01:06:24.840
But he said there's no nation today. If a nation doesn't exist today,

852
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:28.880
are you saying, then that means
there's no hope of that nation ever

853
01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:31.800
being in existence in the future.
Again, I think someone could, from

854
01:06:31.800 --> 01:06:34.599
a biblical standpoint, go, there
was a time the nation of Israel didn't

855
01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:40.960
exist and then it did, So
I don't know, I don't know,

856
01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:45.079
like when and if we go back
and look at some of the prophecies,

857
01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:49.400
go look at when the prophecy was
given, does that what was the existence

858
01:06:49.400 --> 01:06:53.400
of that nation that's being referenced at
the time. Like, I just don't

859
01:06:53.400 --> 01:06:56.599
know. I don't know if that's
a good way to make a polemic against

860
01:06:56.599 --> 01:07:01.079
this. I just I think there's
better ways. Alekites dwell in the land

861
01:07:01.159 --> 01:07:05.880
of the South numbers fourteen twenty five. Now the Amalekites and the Canaanites dwell

862
01:07:05.960 --> 01:07:11.599
in the valley. Historically, they
were defeated by kid Or Laomer in Genesis

863
01:07:11.639 --> 01:07:16.760
fourteen Joshua and Exodus seventeen. Gideon
and Judges seven allied with the Midian Knites,

864
01:07:16.760 --> 01:07:21.800
and in that battle King Saul and
Samuel fifteen. Of course, Samuel

865
01:07:21.920 --> 01:07:28.639
finished the job dealing with the King
of Amelek David and First Samuel twenty seven

866
01:07:28.679 --> 01:07:32.039
and thirty, and the Simian Knites
in First Chronicles chapter four. So as

867
01:07:32.039 --> 01:07:36.320
we understand, historically they were defeated
by all these nations. Now this listen

868
01:07:36.360 --> 01:07:44.960
to the statement that's taken from Wikipedia
rabbis generally agree that Amalekites no longer exist.

869
01:07:45.880 --> 01:07:53.000
How can Psalm eighty three, verse
six be a future prophecy? Again,

870
01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:59.119
if your polemic is against dispensational futurists, don't quote Wikipedia. Quote to

871
01:07:59.199 --> 01:08:04.320
me the future the dispensational futurists and
how they handled the text, then go

872
01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:10.400
after their argumentation. I guarantee you
a dispensational futurists would just simply say so

873
01:08:10.519 --> 01:08:13.960
because they don't exist now, they
can't exist in the future, and then

874
01:08:14.039 --> 01:08:17.439
point out, well, when this
prophecy was made, was there a nation

875
01:08:17.560 --> 01:08:21.760
of Egypt? Was there a nation
of Babylon when this prophecy was first given?

876
01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:26.039
Was there a nation of Israel?
Et cetera, et cetera. And

877
01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:30.239
then they would just go when this
prophecy was given, had that ever occurred

878
01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:32.720
before or was this something new?
So I don't know if that's a good

879
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:36.920
way to argue against I think there's
better ways to argue against Saw eighty three

880
01:08:38.039 --> 01:08:45.079
being future as I've already presented related
to the nation of Israel and Amalekites.

881
01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:49.640
When the Jewish rabbis even recognize and
acknowledge that the Amalekites no longer exist,

882
01:08:50.479 --> 01:08:56.199
continued statement from Wikipedia, so it
is no longer possible to determine who is

883
01:08:56.239 --> 01:09:01.000
an Amalekite. It's also interesting that
the wikiped media articles said that some ultra

884
01:09:01.239 --> 01:09:09.840
Orthodox groups consider Zionists to be Amalekites. End quote. So much for Christian

885
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:15.439
Zionism supporting Israel and the rebuilding a
temple and so on. But Balem in

886
01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:18.880
number twenty four twenty says this,
when he looked on Amelek, he took

887
01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:25.680
up this parable and said, Amelek
was the first of the nations. That's

888
01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:30.880
why they are found in existence.
Klarbac and Genesis fourteen. Amelek was the

889
01:09:30.920 --> 01:09:34.399
first of the nations, but his
latter ench shall be that he perish forever.

890
01:09:35.079 --> 01:09:40.520
Now, a major problem with applying
the Amelek scriptures to the modern Israel

891
01:09:40.520 --> 01:09:45.399
Hamas war is that Gaza is not
where the country the Amalekites was located in

892
01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:49.720
scripture. I believe that is a
serious, serious problem with using the Amalekites

893
01:09:50.159 --> 01:09:56.920
as an excuse for attacking and destroying, for the killing of thousands of people

894
01:09:57.560 --> 01:10:03.720
in Gaza. Now that's a good
argumentation there. Hey, you can't use

895
01:10:04.399 --> 01:10:10.039
Amelek or the Amalekites as an excuse
to attack the people in godsp Okay,

896
01:10:10.039 --> 01:10:12.720
I got no, Okay, that's
we're an agreement there. I got no

897
01:10:12.840 --> 01:10:16.039
problem with that. I got no
problem with that. What I would say

898
01:10:16.159 --> 01:10:20.399
is, though, what are the
dispensational futurists. This is a polemic against

899
01:10:20.479 --> 01:10:28.560
them. What do they say,
right, what what do they say about

900
01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:32.319
that argument? I guarantee you they've
got an argue. They they've got an

901
01:10:32.399 --> 01:10:36.760
answer, They've got they've got a
counter argument. You know, I can

902
01:10:36.800 --> 01:10:43.760
go to non dispensational futurist websites and
say, well, they don't believe this.

903
01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:46.039
Well, okay, well they're not
dispensational. Your polemic is against the

904
01:10:46.119 --> 01:10:50.359
dispensational futurists. So that's who you
should be quoting in my estimation. And

905
01:10:50.399 --> 01:10:55.159
then now you could then go to
these other sources to then counter the argument

906
01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:59.159
of the dispensational futurists. But he's
not presented us their argument and how they

907
01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:04.399
would handle this particular section. The
eighth nation found in Psalm eighty three,

908
01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:10.319
verse seven are the Philistines. Oh, that's the Palestinians. Right, of

909
01:11:10.359 --> 01:11:14.199
course, the Philistines settled on the
southern coast of Palestine. I'm using that

910
01:11:14.239 --> 01:11:16.640
word on purpose. By the way, that is found in Scripture Palestine.

911
01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:21.479
The term Palestine is actually taken from
Scripture. But as in the twelfth century

912
01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:27.239
BC that they settled on the southern
coast of Palestine. These were people that

913
01:11:27.279 --> 01:11:31.600
came from the Aegean Sea region between
Greece and Turkey in the area there,

914
01:11:31.640 --> 01:11:36.479
possibly even from the island of Crete. Now. DNA from the bones of

915
01:11:36.680 --> 01:11:43.880
buried Philistines confirmed that they originated in
Europe according to Amos nine ver seven.

916
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:46.399
We have a confirmation of that.
But I want to point out here so

917
01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:53.039
with that said, Palestinians are not
Arabs. So many times we lump we

918
01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:59.439
hear people lumping together Palestinians and Arabs
into one group. They are not Arabs,

919
01:11:59.479 --> 01:12:01.560
I should say, they are not
descendants of Ishmael. It came across

920
01:12:01.640 --> 01:12:08.600
an online article from the Fellowship of
Israel Related Ministries. This online article said

921
01:12:08.600 --> 01:12:13.000
that the Philistines were conquered by King
Nebuknezar of Babylon and they were deported.

922
01:12:13.720 --> 01:12:17.479
Most of the Philistines were either killed
or deported out of that region. Some

923
01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:24.000
returned and assimilated into the Phoenician culture. Listen to this statement. Their own

924
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:30.239
culture slowly but surely completely died out, as was prophesied in Amos one and

925
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:32.560
verse eight. Amos one to eighth
says, and I will cut off the

926
01:12:32.600 --> 01:12:39.359
inhabitant from Ashtod and him that holdeth
the scepter from Ascalon, and I will

927
01:12:39.359 --> 01:12:45.399
turn mine hand against Akron, and
the remnant of the Philistines shall perish.

928
01:12:45.439 --> 01:12:48.560
Saith the Lord God. Another statement
from this article. While the Philistines have

929
01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:56.039
been gone for over twenty seven hundred
years, we still now. It's interesting

930
01:12:56.039 --> 01:13:00.159
you said the Palestinians are not Arab, which caught me off guard, so

931
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:05.159
immediately ask artificial intelligence, and it
says the Palestinian people have a complex history

932
01:13:05.199 --> 01:13:11.239
marked by various conflicts, negotiations,
and territorial claims, particularly with Israel.

933
01:13:11.920 --> 01:13:17.600
It says they are The Palestinians are
predominantly Arab and ethnicity, and are also

934
01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:26.039
connected by shared historical culture and linguistic
ties. So I don't know what website

935
01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:30.840
he went to. This just turns
into this never ending kind of argument.

936
01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:34.560
There's got to be a better polemic
against this idea, so that I would

937
01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:39.239
have to go back and listen to
everything he had to say. See,

938
01:13:39.319 --> 01:13:42.720
that's why I was worried, Like
he's just looking up random websites. Now

939
01:13:42.720 --> 01:13:45.680
I don't know where, of course, AI gathered its information, so I'd

940
01:13:45.760 --> 01:13:48.000
have to do more searching to see
if even if I agree with AI.

941
01:13:48.079 --> 01:13:55.000
But immediately we have conflicting information.
So once you get conflicting information in your

942
01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:59.159
polemic, you're like you make in
your polemical argument, You're like, this

943
01:13:59.399 --> 01:14:00.920
is the way, this is the
way it is, and that is wrong.

944
01:14:01.039 --> 01:14:03.479
And then within five seconds of searching, going, but I've got something

945
01:14:03.479 --> 01:14:08.760
that contradicts your information, then your
polemic begins to fall apart. My polemic

946
01:14:08.760 --> 01:14:12.960
about Saw eighty three is look at
the language use. It's speaking of past

947
01:14:13.039 --> 01:14:16.000
and present. Look at the language
of Second Chronicles twenty. It very much

948
01:14:16.039 --> 01:14:20.399
fits it. Even Asaf would be
alive at that time. Look at how

949
01:14:20.479 --> 01:14:26.000
jehosaphat praise. That's very similar to
Saw eighty three. Asaf is giving the

950
01:14:26.039 --> 01:14:29.720
communal lament the limit of the people. But which would fit the prayer of

951
01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:32.520
Jehosaph fat this works. Now,
how did this prayer get answered? We

952
01:14:32.560 --> 01:14:36.319
would look to Second Chronicles twenty.
Now, do you have any future text

953
01:14:36.439 --> 01:14:40.720
in the New Testament that would take
Psaw eighty three and point it to a

954
01:14:40.760 --> 01:14:44.159
future event. If you do not, then you don't have anything to connect

955
01:14:44.159 --> 01:14:47.920
it to a future event. So
let's say that this was past and present

956
01:14:48.960 --> 01:14:53.880
and a little bit future for the
original recipients, or at least the answer

957
01:14:53.920 --> 01:15:01.960
to the prayer was future for the
recipients. I think that should solve solve

958
01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:08.039
it. This polemic just becomes more
convoluted to me by the second. Well,

959
01:15:08.119 --> 01:15:10.680
some of these people exist, and
well, some of these the people

960
01:15:10.720 --> 01:15:13.399
exist, but the nations don't exist. And because the nations don't exist,

961
01:15:13.439 --> 01:15:15.079
well that means they can never exist
in the future. So therefore it can't

962
01:15:15.119 --> 01:15:19.800
be Now this is now we're getting
to Felictia and the Philistine, the Philisines,

963
01:15:20.119 --> 01:15:26.880
the Palestinians, and now it's getting
into some questionable argumentation about identity,

964
01:15:27.520 --> 01:15:33.600
their their ethnicity that this gets into. I don't know what we are accomplishing

965
01:15:33.680 --> 01:15:40.079
at this point. They don't feel
their influence today, so is that a

966
01:15:40.119 --> 01:15:45.880
reference to the Palestinians. What this
article emphasizes is that Roman Emperor Hadrian,

967
01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:53.439
to stamp out Jewish identity, renamed
Judea, Syria, Palestina, and it

968
01:15:53.479 --> 01:15:58.159
was shortened to Palestine today. So
what they're talking about is the reference to

969
01:15:59.159 --> 01:16:04.560
Roman Emperor Adrian renaming this area Palestine
instead of Judea. Listen to this statement

970
01:16:04.600 --> 01:16:11.640
from the article. There is no
historical connection between ancient Philistines or Canaanites and

971
01:16:11.720 --> 01:16:16.600
today's Palestinian population. Now I got
to interrupt that because I just wanted to

972
01:16:16.640 --> 01:16:20.239
ask again, Ai, I'm more
direct, sorry, knocking the microphone across

973
01:16:20.239 --> 01:16:26.199
the room. I wanted to ask
Ai a more direct question. Are the

974
01:16:26.239 --> 01:16:30.560
Palaestinians Arab? Yes, the Palestinians
are primarily Arab and ethnicity. The majority

975
01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:34.039
of Palestinians identify as Arab and share
linguistic, culture, and historical ties with

976
01:16:34.680 --> 01:16:41.079
other Arab communities in the Middle East. Arabic is the predominant language spoken about

977
01:16:41.079 --> 01:16:44.720
the Palestinians, and Arab cultural traditions
and customs play a significant role in the

978
01:16:44.760 --> 01:16:48.000
Palestinian society. It is important to
note that while the Palestinians are predominantly Arab,

979
01:16:48.239 --> 01:16:51.880
there is also diversity within the Palestinian
population. For example, there are

980
01:16:51.920 --> 01:16:58.000
Palestinian Christians who belong to various Christian
denominations and have their distinct cultural practices and

981
01:16:58.039 --> 01:17:01.600
traditions. Additionally, there are small
community of Palestinians who are not who are

982
01:17:01.640 --> 01:17:09.600
not ethnically such as Palestinian and it
names another group. Overall, the Arab

983
01:17:09.640 --> 01:17:15.279
identity is a significant aspect of Palestinian
culture and history in shaping the collective Palestinian

984
01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:19.880
identity, influencing political, social,
and cultural dynamics with the Palestinian territories and

985
01:17:19.960 --> 01:17:27.479
the broader Arab world. So I
don't I mean, I mean, we

986
01:17:27.479 --> 01:17:30.119
could have well, I guess we
could argue this all night, but I

987
01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:38.239
just don't see this just convolutes your
polemic at this point. End quote that's

988
01:17:38.279 --> 01:17:44.119
from an online article The Fellowship of
Israel Related ministries now Exodus twenty three nine

989
01:17:44.159 --> 01:17:47.159
says thou shalt not ap press.
I would just say, if I'm going

990
01:17:47.199 --> 01:17:49.399
to look at the ethnicity of a
group, I don't know, if I'm

991
01:17:49.399 --> 01:17:55.560
going to go to some website the
Fellowship of Israel something ministries, I think

992
01:17:55.600 --> 01:18:00.720
I would probably look for a more
I don't know, academic type prop I

993
01:18:00.840 --> 01:18:05.239
just like, and that's from some
ministry website. I could probably find other

994
01:18:05.279 --> 01:18:10.079
ministry websites that would argue against that
ministry website. So like how are we

995
01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:16.960
going? And he obviously is not
going to any site that would contradict his

996
01:18:17.399 --> 01:18:23.720
argument. But this is supposed to
be a polemic against a specific philological group,

997
01:18:23.720 --> 01:18:27.359
which is dispensational futurists. But he's
yet to quote one. He's yet

998
01:18:27.399 --> 01:18:33.600
to quote them one times a stranger, for ye know the heart of a

999
01:18:33.640 --> 01:18:38.800
stranger, seeing you were strangers in
the land of Egypt. What I think

1000
01:18:38.880 --> 01:18:44.439
is very interesting is that no one
trying to justify Israel's acts of aggression against

1001
01:18:44.479 --> 01:18:49.159
the Palestinians ever quote that verse thou
shalt not oppress a stranger, for ye

1002
01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:53.800
know the heart of a stranger,
seeing ye were strangers in the land of

1003
01:18:53.840 --> 01:19:00.000
Egypt. Ninth on the list of
this confederacy is tire. Okay, you

1004
01:19:00.039 --> 01:19:02.720
can go look up, you can
listen to the rest of this. It's

1005
01:19:02.760 --> 01:19:08.880
Psalm eighty three Israel Hamas War.
Psalm eighty three Israel and Hamas War.

1006
01:19:09.279 --> 01:19:12.239
You can find it on the Sermon's
two point o app or thee Beta dot

1007
01:19:12.239 --> 01:19:15.920
Sermon Audio dot com website. You
probably only have about seven minutes or eight

1008
01:19:15.920 --> 01:19:18.720
minutes of it left, and you
can go wrap that up really quick,

1009
01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:24.199
and you can hear his conclusion of
the whole matter. I definitely would challenge

1010
01:19:24.239 --> 01:19:30.640
you to do that. But there's
another approach to PSAWM eighty three. I

1011
01:19:30.680 --> 01:19:34.239
really don't know what else to say
about that other than this. You can

1012
01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:38.439
be dispensed if you want to be
label if someone wants to put you a

1013
01:19:38.479 --> 01:19:41.239
label on you, I got no
problem if you. If someone wants to

1014
01:19:41.239 --> 01:19:44.640
put a label on me, you
can say dispensationalist, and in many cases

1015
01:19:44.760 --> 01:19:47.399
definitely a futurist, a believing many
of the prophecies in the Bible have yet

1016
01:19:47.399 --> 01:19:50.239
to be fulfilled. Right, If
that's what we're referring to the term futurist

1017
01:19:50.279 --> 01:19:54.479
in that sense, okay, especially
a future for Israel and them getting the

1018
01:19:54.560 --> 01:19:58.039
land, then I am a dispensational
futurist in those categories. But I don't

1019
01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:01.239
really care about staying true to said
category. So when it comes to Saw

1020
01:20:01.279 --> 01:20:04.600
eighty three, I don't care if
I disagree with every dispensational futurist on the

1021
01:20:04.600 --> 01:20:10.039
face of the earth. Saw eighty
three. It's historical context to Second Chronicles

1022
01:20:10.039 --> 01:20:15.000
twenty. Second Chronicles twenty gives you
the historical context for this communal lament penned

1023
01:20:15.039 --> 01:20:18.800
by Asaf Asap pends it. It's
his prayer. He's crying out to God.

1024
01:20:18.880 --> 01:20:21.000
He's crying out to God on behalf
of the people. The people cry

1025
01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:24.680
out to God with him in worship. Right, and now how does the

1026
01:20:24.680 --> 01:20:27.640
prayer get answered? What happens?
Well, you look at second Chronicles twenty

1027
01:20:27.680 --> 01:20:30.640
and tell me if we have an
answer there that to me is more important.

1028
01:20:31.039 --> 01:20:36.119
Then if I'm going to argue against
this being a future war, then

1029
01:20:36.119 --> 01:20:41.000
I would just look at the language, the historical context, and demand some

1030
01:20:41.239 --> 01:20:44.079
proof that this has something to do
with the future, since there's nothing in

1031
01:20:44.119 --> 01:20:49.159
the text that even hints at that. All right, thanks for listening.

1032
01:20:49.359 --> 01:20:55.640
You can email me news I F
at yahoo dot com. That's news I

1033
01:20:55.720 --> 01:21:00.680
F at Yahoo dot com. If
for some reason I misheard him when he

1034
01:21:00.720 --> 01:21:03.520
said the Palestinians are not Arab,
now maybe he was saying the Philistines are

1035
01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:06.239
not ra then I would have to
look that up. If you said the

1036
01:21:06.319 --> 01:21:11.239
Palestinians, I know I did,
length I did look up two different things

1037
01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:14.520
to try to counter that. So
if I misheard him. If I misheard

1038
01:21:14.600 --> 01:21:16.359
him, that's on me, not
on him. And it's not even there

1039
01:21:16.359 --> 01:21:19.039
to make an argument. What I'm
trying to demonstrate, is he's just looking

1040
01:21:19.119 --> 01:21:24.600
up random sites that seem to be
in agreement with his presupposition, and I

1041
01:21:24.680 --> 01:21:29.600
know that there would be information that
would probably challenge his presuppositions. So that's

1042
01:21:30.039 --> 01:21:32.760
that's what I was simply trying to
demonstrate, not so much trying to demonstrate

1043
01:21:32.800 --> 01:21:38.039
whether they are or aren't, but
more so just trying to demonstrate how quickly

1044
01:21:38.079 --> 01:21:41.560
it is to find information that can
counter what you're putting forth. So then

1045
01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:47.239
that makes your polemic very much more
difficult to maintain. But I completely agree

1046
01:21:47.279 --> 01:21:50.199
with him. The PSAW eighty three
is not about a future war. We

1047
01:21:50.359 --> 01:21:55.279
just differ on our polemic approach to
that question. All right, thanks for

1048
01:21:55.319 --> 01:22:00.880
listening. News F at yahoo dot
com. That's news F yahud WHOA.

1049
01:22:01.680 --> 01:22:06.279
I'm exhausted now. That was eighty
two minutes. That took a long time.

1050
01:22:06.319 --> 01:22:10.359
All right, thanks for listening.
God bless