Prayer, Tragedy, and Sovereignty Pt 2

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All right for this hour. I
know if you look at most church websites,

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the way they promote their church is
that this is a friendly place,

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or this is a place you come
for encouragement, this is a place you

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come to be uplifted, This is
a place all those types of marketing campaigns

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that the church is supposed to be
place for encouragement, to be uplifted.

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It's a positive thing. What drives
me crazy about that is that if anyone

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is even honest with the Bible or
theology, it's not always uplifting. It's

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definitely not always positive, and it's
definitely not always encouraging. Fact sometimes it's

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downright troubling and disturbing. But nobody
ever wants to face those situations. So

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that is what we're doing today.
We're facing something that's very uncomfortable, not

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very pleasant, not going to be
very uplifting. And so you know,

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you can leave here until everyone how
messed up your church is. But this

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is just what we have to do. So, as everyone knows, we

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have been working on Psalm eighty three
now for a very long time, and

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we're taking a slight detour today to
deal with something that everyone who reads p

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Ssaw eighty three should be confronted with. If you'll look at Ssaw eighty three,

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I'm just gonna go through this quickly
to try to get everyone here in

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the second hour caught up from the
first hour. But if you look at

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ssawn eighty three, if you'll look
at verse one, if you look at

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verse nine, and you look at
verse thirteen, Saw eighty three one,

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Psalm eighty three, verse nine,
Psalm eighty three, verse thirteen, you'll

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notice something is happening. And Psalm
eighty three, verse one, the Ssamis

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writes, do not keep silent,
Oh God, do not hold your peace,

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and do not be still, Oh
God. And verse nine he says,

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deal with them. He's obviously speaking
to someone to deal with someone else.

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And verse thirteen he says, oh
my God, and three verses.

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It's very clear that the psalmist is
crying out to God, or we would

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use the term praying to God.
Now anyone who sees that, though,

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and reads the rest of the Psalm
should at least stop and consider, hmn

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something makes absolutely no sense. And
what is that that makes no sense?

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About the prayer in Psalm eighty three. Now, the people here in the

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first hour cannot say, everyone else
can say, what is the problem with

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this prayer? In Psalm eighty three, it's the problem with every prayer.

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When tragedy happens, pain happens,
suffering happens, everyone wants God, everyone

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calls for prayer, to pray to
God. But which God are you praying

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to? You're praying to the God
who knew the tragedy, the difficult,

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the pain you're praying about, was
going to happen, and did absolutely nothing

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to stop it. And that is
at the minimum, at the most.

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He did far more than that.
So we're dealing with how prayer should supposedly

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work because there's a big part of
it that makes absolutely no sense, and

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people not look. People are all
throughout the country are constantly bringing this up

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and confronting Christians with this nonsensical problem
that Christians don't want to hear, and

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they get offended and they get defensive, but they got to be confronted with

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it. So in the first hour
I presented as we've been going through saw

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maybe three, I've been giving you
these points that we believe in a God

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and whom we cannot see as we're
surrounded by circumstances which we can see,

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which calls into question the existence of
the God whom we can see. I've

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been given statements like that. Well
in the first hour, I gave a

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brand new one. This one's on
the long but you should try to write

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it down or at least remember it
as much as possible. Everybody ready,

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nobody's going to like this. Don't
share this with anyone outside of this church,

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or they will go, what is
going on in your church? But

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the reason they're going to say that
is because nobody in church has ever confronted

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with this reality. Everybody ready,
As Christians, we pray to a God

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in whom we cannot see, to
act in some way to help with circumstances

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we can see. All right,
let me say that part again. As

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Christians, we pray to a God
in whom we cannot see, to act

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in some way to help with circumstances
that we very much can see. Even

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though the God whom we are p
to, at the very minimum, knew

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those circumstances would happen before he even
created the world, and he allowed those

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circumstances to happen and did absolutely nothing
to stop them. And at the very

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most, he decreed everything that happened, and he guided and directed them to

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happen. Right, everybody got that. As Christians, we pray to a

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God in whom we cannot see to
act in some way to help with circumstances

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we can see. Even though the
God we are praying to, right at

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a very minimum, knew those circumstances
would happen before he created the world,

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and he allowed those circumstances to happen. And he did absolutely nothing. And

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at the very most, God did
what he decreed them and guided and directed

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them to happen. Now, if
you got the Trinity Hymnal. Everyone grabbed

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the Trinity Hymnal, the Trinity Hymnal
and turned to page eight hundred and fifty.

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We're going to go through this quickly. I'm not reviewing. Typically I

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would review a lot about PSAWMITI three, but this morning I don't have time

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to do that because morning will be
afternoon before we know it, and then

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you'll want to go home, all
right, So here we go, Chapter

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three, Paragraph one of the London
or the Westminster Confession of Faith. It's

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the same as the London Baptist Confession
of Faith. We read this very disturbing

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paragraph. All right, and everyone
should be bothered by this anytime you read

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it? All right? Are you
ready? Everybody there? Okay, all

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right, here we go, God
from all eternity did by the most wise

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and holy counsel of his own will
freely. And what's that next word?

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Everyone read it on their paper.
Unchangeably or unchangeable? Right? Ordain?

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Next word, whatsoever comes to pass? God from all eternity unchangeably ordains whatsoever

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comes to pass God from all eternity, or dains whatsoever comes to past,

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and it is unchangeable. Do you
see now the contradiction in prayer? What

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am I praying about? If God's
will is unchangeable and if God ordains whatsoever

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comes to pass? Because whenever we
pray about whatsoever comes to past, what

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do we inevitably pray for four for
God to change whatsoever comes to past?

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Well, if I'm praying for God
to change whats whoever comes to past?

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Am I not asking him to change
his unchangeable will? That seems kind of

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ridiculous, does it not? Not
only that it means that there's a high

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probability that we have all spent most
of our life doing what praying against God's

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will. You see the problem.
Go to chapter five of the London or

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Westminster Confession of Faith. Paragraph one. This is on God's providence. Everybody

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see this. Here we go.
Paragraph one. God, the great creator

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of all things, doth look at
the things he does. Number one upholds,

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number two, directs, number three, disposes number four. Now look

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what he governs? Are you ready
for? What? He governs? All

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creatures, actions, and things,
from the greatest even to the least,

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by his most wise and holy providence, according to his infallible fore knowledge and

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the free And what's that next word, immutable, which means unchangeable right counsel

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of his own will. So whatsoever
comes to pass, God is doing what

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with whatever comes to pass. He's
upholding it, he's directing it, he's

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disposing it. He is governing the
creatures involved, the actions involved, and

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the things from the greatest even to
the least. Is anybody getting just a

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little bit bothered at this point?
I'm getting really bothered. Yeah, that's

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troubling, is it not? So? At the very least, whatever circumstance

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we see, we're like someone will
say, hey, hey, please pray

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for this, and I'm okay,
I'll pray for it. What do you

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want me to pray? Wow,
I want God to do this and this

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and this. Well wait a minute, so we're gonna pray to the very

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God because they'll be like a horrible
traffic accident. Hey, please pray for

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so and so. They were involved
in a horrible traffic accident. So you

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want me to pray to the very
God who knew before the foundations of the

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world that that traffic accident would occur
and did absolutely nothing to stop it.

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Or number two, you want me
to pray to the God who not only

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knew it and did nothing to stop
it, he decreed it, guided directed

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it according to his unchangeable will.
So now, what do I want God

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to do? Why would I pray
to that God to do something about that

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circumstance if he knew it and did
nothing to stop it, because it would

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seem to imply that he wants that
situation to have occurred. Do you see

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where that can raise some questions?
Now, Christians don't like to talk about

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this in church, but trust me, over the last week or so,

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there's been lots of people raising these
questions because of how Christians have acted over

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the assassination temp of Donald Trump and
the prayers supposedly offered up, which and

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again people are like, that makes
no sense. So you want me to

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pray for whom? Pray for Donald
Trump? How about the guy that God

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didn't save, who died trying to
save his family. His first name is

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Corey, even though nobody ever talks
about him, he died. Well,

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God was supposedly saving Trump. He
couldn't save Corey. See, Christians don't

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want to hear that, but the
world's asking those questions. The fire that

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started at First Baptist First Baptist in
Dallas, Texas and burnt the roof collapse

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of the historic sanctuary that was built
in what eighteen ninety, Well they're like,

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oh, praise God for this,
and we're praying for this and praying

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for what The guy who knew the
fire was going to start did nothing to

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stop the fire, or even more, he did what decreed it and guided

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it. Do you understand why this
can raise some questions? Well, plenty

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in the world are raising the questions. And guess how church Christians respond.

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They get defensive, they get argumentative, they start yelling, well, you're

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just not a believer, or they
make five hundred excuses that make absolutely no

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logical sense. So what we're doing
is trying to understand then this question,

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because at the conclusion of that thing
I've read out for you, as Christians,

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we pray to a God in whom
we cannot see, to act in

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some way to help with circumstances we
can see, even though the God we

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cannot see, at minimum knew the
circumstances would happen before he even created the

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world, and allowed those circumstances to
happen, and did absolutely nothing to stop

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them, and at the most God
decreed them and guided and directed them.

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Then here's what I put, What
then are we praying for? What are

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we praying for? Or I think
Robert stated this in the first hour,

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How then should we even pray?
What are we praying for? How should

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we pray? So guess what we're
doing in the first hour we have started.

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We're going through church history to see, well, how then should we

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pray? And how you pray should
be guided by what? Okay, now

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I'm gonna state this again, how
you pray should be guided by your theology,

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But inevitably, throughout two thousand years
of church history, how we pray

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is typically guided by what our emotions
and our feelings. Almost no one is

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ever consistent and their prayer life with
their theology. Life. Prayer and theology

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are constantly in contradiction, constantly and
contradiction. Okay, if you are in

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our manion right and you reject God's
sovereignty of salvation, then why are you

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asking me to pray for someone's salvation? Because you always well, God,

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have God draw them or how God
break? Why am I praying for their

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salvation? You believe what in the
absolute libertarian free will? You believe in

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free will, so God can't do
anything to their free will? Why am

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I even bothering to pray for someone's
salvation? As a Calvinist, you may

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say, well, we need to
pray about this, so this, Why

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am I praying about? This?
Says God decreed everything to come to pass

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and he governed it, and his
will is unchangeable. Then what am I

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praying for? Meaning that our prayers
should sound very different based off what our

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theology. So I am going through
church history to see how people in church

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history have tried to address this,
even though nobody in church ever talks about

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it. Because if we talked about
this in church. You know what would

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happen if you go to a church
that talks about these kinds of things,

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do you know what happens? It
looks like this church people are not going

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to stick around for this. I
would get fired in most churches by the

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end of this. In fact,
most likely I would probably someone would stop

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me from preaching this in most churches
because nobody I mean, I know how

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to get kicked off Christian radio because
I've been kicked off Christian radio, so

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I know how to get in trouble
with the Christian world. But that nobody

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wants to talk about it, Well, you can try to not talk about

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it. People all over the world
are talking about it. There's all over

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the last couple of events that's happened. There are lots of people, well,

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where was God for this? And
why did you want to pray?

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To other? Very God? Who
did that? And Christians don't have any

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other than just yell argue And it's
just randomly quote scripture that they don't even

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have any idea how to even interpret. It's just it's just maddy. And

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you know why they can't handle it
because their church doesn't want to deal with

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it. You know why their church
doesn't want to deal with it because their

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pastor would be fired. But this
is the ugly world of Christianity. And

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I've said it a million times.
What is the most troubling verse in the

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entire Bible? In the beginning,
God created the heavens and the earth.

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You know why it is most troubling
verse in the Bible because I know everything

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that happened after He created the world. So when I get ready to read

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it and I say in the beginning, God, I'm like, stop right

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there, don't do the next thing, because as soon as you do the

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next thing, we all know how
it's going to play out, including the

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one who did it. And nobody
saying, well, Satan. Everyone wants

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to say, Satan, Satan?
Satan? Who created Satan? Who knew

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he was gonna fall? Who could
have destroyed him after he fell? Who

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could have kept him out of the
garden after Adam and Eve fell? What

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could he have done? Killed Adam
and Eve? He said, well,

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that would be mean, really killing
two. How many people have died since

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Adam and Eve? In human history? How many people have died innumerable?

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So wouldn't it have been better just
to get rid of them because he told

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them if they ate, they would
die. He would have been just simply

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doing what he said. That would
be the end of it. And then

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we'd been They said, well,
God needed He didn't need anyone, because

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if he needed someone, he wouldn't
be God right, he wouldn't be perfect.

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So does any of that make sense? Okay? If anyone says it

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makes sense, you're lying. Now. See now, people who hear this

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online, they'll start getting defensive and
they'll want you don't know what you're talking

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about. You just don't believe in
God. You're an atheist. That's all.

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That's all Christians can do is accuse
you of being an atheist. If

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being an atheist is asking hard questions, then sign me up. I'm an

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atheist. But Christians should be the
ones asking the hard questions because we're the

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ones who supposedly read the Bible.
Well, if you read Some eighty three,

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you know what the first question you
should have had, Why are you

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bothering asking God to do something he'd
a creed it happen? Oh? I

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know nobody asked that question when they
read Some mayby three? Did they?

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But they should have. So we're
gonna try to figure out how this should

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work. So in the first hour
we started, I went through church history

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and we started with the Reformation.
And the reason we went to the Reformation

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is obvious. What hymn book are
we using in our church, the Trinity

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Hymnal. What confession of faith is
at the end of that? The Westminster

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what's our confession of faith for this
church, London Baptist. So because our

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confession is Calvinistic, because it believes
in the sovereignty of God, I wanted

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to go to the Reformation to see
how did those in the Reformation try to

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handle this problem. You're not going
to like their solution, all right.

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The first hour we talked about it. I'm going to go through it quickly,

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all right? Are you ready?
The Reform perspective before they pray,

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before prayer, Like if someone said, hey, I need you to pray

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about this situation, you start your
prayer before you say a word by acknowledging

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this. Are you ready? This
is what a Calvinist would acknowledge before they

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pray. God has decreed all events, including tragedy, for his purpose.

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That's where you start with. Now
that's gonna be all right. Do you

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see how difficult that may be to
pray. So Sarah gets home, something

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bad happens, she said. She
calls me and says, hey, I

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need you to pray about this situation. Okay, just now. I wouldn't

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say it to her, but in
my mind, what I'm not gonna think?

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Okay, well God decreed that to
happen. God, God had it

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and directed it through his providence.
All right, but I'll pray about it.

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I don't know exactly how what you
want me to pray, but I'll

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pray about I'm not gonna say that
to her. I'll be like, I'll

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pray, but I'm gonna be when
I hang up, I'm gonna be like,

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so what do I do here?
She wants me, obviously, to

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pray to do what to change it? But I'm starting off with the premise

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that God decreed it. So why
would I pray God to change that which

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he decreed? Does your brain start
hurting? So? What is the purpose

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of prayer? From the reformed perspective? All right? Are you ready?

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In the reformed perspective, prayer serves
primarily as a means for believers to align

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themselves with God's sovereign will. Calvinists
believe that God's will is immutable and that

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his plan is perfect and comprehensive.
Therefore, prayer is not a way to

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change God's mind or alter his plans. So from a Calvinistic perspective, what

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are you not doing? You don't
pray for God to change or alter anything.

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You're praying so that you can do
what submit to His will. You

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are in prayer acknowledging his sovereignty,
and you're submitting two SAIDs sovereignty. And

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you may express your pain and frustration
because you can. And Saw eighty three,

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it's a lament. If we understand
Psalm eighty three is a lament,

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then what does a lament do?
What does a lament do? Express his

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emotion? So Saw maighty three of
the Saumus is expressing the emotions and the

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desires of the people. You can
express your emotion in prayer. You can

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express your desire in prayer. But
ultimately what you are saying is God.

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Then I know your sovereign, I
know you have decreed this to happen.

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I know you're guiding it in your
providence, and I simply come to you

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to do what to express that I
don't like what you're doing. I'm bothered

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by what you're doing. I want
you to change what you're doing. But

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ultimately I know that your will is
unchangeable, and so I submit to your

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will because it's not my will,
but your will be done. Basically,

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that's what you're doing in prayer.
Now, you don't like that, do

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you? If you want if someone
to pray for you, you want God

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to do what change? That's why
you go find fifteen people to pray,

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right? Why do people say,
oh, call this person and call this

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person because you want fifteen people to
gather. Because what do we always say?

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Most probably every church you've ever been
to, prayer changes things because that's

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what we want to happen. But
the reality is it should be not me

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praying for you. You should be
praying for you yourself, saying God,

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I acknowledge that you're supreme, You're
a sovereign. Your will is unchangeable.

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I submit to your will. But
Lord, here's my emotions about it.

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I hate it. I don't like
it. It's garbage, it's trash.

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I don't like anything about it.
But ultimately I will submit to it.

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That's the calvinistic perspective. It's not
to change it. So I didn't know

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what to do with that. I
was like, well, what is a

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prayer sound like? What is a
prayer sound like that? So I asked

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Ai to write a prayer because I'm
like, hey, I can't find any

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human examples of pray like this,
because I don't think anyone actually prays like

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this? Can I? And I
knew AI would have a A would be

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somewhat successful. You know why I
thought AI would be successful because it could

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pray theiologically and not pray emotionally.
So guess you want to hear AI pray?

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Right? I could have recorded the
audio of it, but here is

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the text of it. Right,
Heavenly Father, we come before you and

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our time of sorrow and distress.
Acknowledging your sovereign hand over all things.

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We confess that we do not fully
understand the reasons for the pain and suffering

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we are experiencing, but we trust
in your perfect wisdom and goodness. Lord.

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We ask for your comfort and strength
in the midst of our trials.

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Help us find peace and the knowledge
that you are in control and that nothing

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happens outside of your divine will.
Grant us the grace to an or this

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hardship with faith, knowing that you
will work all things for the good to

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those who love you and are called
according to your purpose. Father, we

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pray that you would use this time
of suffering to draw us closer to you,

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to deepen our dependence on your provision, and to refine our character to

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be more like Christ. Help us
see your hand at work even in our

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pain, and to trust that you
are accomplishing your purpose in us and through

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us. We also ask that you
would be glorified through our response to this

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tragedy. May our faith and hope
in you be a testimony to others of

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your unchanging love and faithfulness. Use
our suffering to bring others to a saving

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knowledge of Christ. And all things
we submit to your will, knowing that

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you are a loving, a compassionate
God who is always with us. We

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pray this in the name of our
Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen.

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That's a really good prayer, very
theologically sound. And what does that

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prayer not one time ask God to
do change anything? Now, that's not

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the prayer we want now. Ai
wrote that prayer for what purpose? To

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correspond to a thiological perspective. I
told which theological perspective to write the prayer

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from, and it wrote the prayer, and the prayer never asked God to

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change anything. We don't pray that
way. This is what AI told me.

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This prayer reflects the Reformed emphasis on
God's sovereignty, the purpose of suffering

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in the believer's life, and the
ultimate aim of glorifying God through all circumstances.

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Now, that is the way we
should pray. So in the reformed

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world and the reformed mind. If
you hold to that form of theology,

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then what is the purpose of prayer? To submit to God's will, to

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align yourself with God's well and the
reform world? Is what is prayer not?

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For it's not about asking God to
change anything. Now you go tell

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your Christian friends that they will,
they will lose their mind on you.

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But I'm sorry now, because what's
the ultimate question then, is God's will

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changeable or unchangeable? And if God
and what is God's will? Whatsoever comes

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to past? If you say that
God's will is unchangeable, and if you

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say God's will is whatsoever comes the
past, You've got problems, do you

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know? I? All right,
there's the reform perspective. We covered that

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in the first hour. I know, we just spent a lot of time

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covering it again, but that's okay, all right. Now that brings us

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to the next perspective. What is
the next perspective, the Armenian perspective,

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The Armenian perspective? All right,
okay, Now, when for a Calvinist

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you start off with what is your
foundational truth? You start off with before

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you ever utter a prayer, God's
sovereignty and him decreeing everything that comes to

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pass. What is the Armenian's foundational
principle when they start, before they start

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to pray, they would call it
God's permissive will, God's permissive will,

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and this is where God allows human
free will and natural processes to play out,

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which can result in suffering. So
they would say, God has his

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like ultimate will, but then he
has a permissive will. So you can

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start, Oh, so this suffering
is a God a part of God's permissive

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will. Now, obviously, what's
the kind of the idea that it's the

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permissive will? It almost inevitably carries
the concept that what it can be changed?

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Okay, or now you got to
be careful here, say now to

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me, there's a logical gap.
There's a logical problem here, right,

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because if I connect it with God's
will and say it can be changed,

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then that seems to call into question
the unchangeability or immutability of God's will.

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Right, But they kind of give
this separate category, what's the permissive will

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so it can be changed? I
wouldn't really call that then God's will of

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any kind, right, I would
say this would be like, well,

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God has his ultimate plan, here's
his ultimate plan, and then he allows

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all of this to happen freely.
He doesn't really get involved. And if

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he doesn't get involved, this would
seem to infer there's no point in praying

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for it because God's not involved in
it. Well, if he goes against

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his will, then obviously he would
not. He's not gonna change it anyway.

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But I'm just saying like, if
you say, well, God just

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allows all all of this to happen
freely, well, then that means God

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is not what guiding or directing it. Well, if God is not guiding

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and directing it, if I pray
for him to get involved, then he's

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not freely allowing it to occur.
Right, It's not freely In other words,

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the minute you bring God into it, then it's not God just simply

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freely allowing things to freely play out. He's now involved in So God couldn't

359
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:29.200
by definition he couldn't get involved in
it. Does that make sense? They

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say, this is his permissive will
and he just allows natural processes and man's

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free will to work freely, Well, then God can never get involved in

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it. So there'd be no point
in praying for God to do anything because

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he can't. This logically begins to
fall apart. Does everyone understand what I'm

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saying? Right? If God is
say, okay, look all of that,

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that's my permissive will and I just
let it freely play out, well,

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then I can't come to God and
tell him to get involved because a

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minute he gets involved, it's not
freely taking place. He's now involved in,

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guiding, directing, or changing.
And not only that. If it's

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if you say it's his whip or
will of any kind, but God can

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change his will, then that destroys
the immutability of God. So either way

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you run into logical problems. Do
you say, what this one kind of

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falls apart? So, but so, what is the purpose of prayer?

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From the Armenian perspective, prayer is
away for believers to seek God's intervention,

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guidance and comfort. So in the
Armenian perspective, what are you asking God

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to do to literally intervene? Well, yeah, well if he intervenes,

376
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then he's not freely letting it happen, right, And how does how do

377
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I have God? Like? If
God intervenes, is he not then impacting

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someone's free will? Like if you
say, well, I was praying for

379
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Donald Trump and God and he stepped
in and stopped him from being killed,

380
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Well he stopped he stopped someone's free
will, right, because someone wanted Trump

381
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to die, and you took away
that man's right to have his will accomplished

382
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:18.359
and you had the man killed.
Well, that doesn't seem very good.

383
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Or you just have to say God
did what he did nothing? Well,

384
00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:29.079
if he did nothing in order to
maintain the freedom, well then there's no

385
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:34.480
point of praying for God to do
anything. You see, and either you

386
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:37.839
want God to act in a sovereign
way, but then you don't want to

387
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.599
believe in God, like you either
have to accept his sovereignty or you have

388
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.000
to reject his sovereignty. If you
reject his sovereignty, then all of this

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00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.400
is happening and God. They say, well, God is sovereign, he's

390
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.319
just choosing not to get involved.
Then you can't pray for him to get

391
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:59.319
involved. This one has a major
logical issues with it. All right,

392
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:05.720
oh, they go on, uh, this is uh. Jacobus Arminius emphasize

393
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.359
that prayer can change outcomes and that
God, in his foreknowledge, responds to

394
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human needs and petitions. So,
according to Arminius, what can God prayer

395
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:19.400
can actually do? What change things? Now? What is it changing?

396
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:24.720
So that what's the question, what
is it changing? So by this,

397
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:31.400
if it's changing something, then you're
you're what are you clearly denying God's eternal

398
00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:38.240
decree? Because God's eternal decree is
unchangeable, you're clearly if it can be

399
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:45.359
changed, you are clearly denying God's
providence and guiding directing. So then God

400
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:47.200
is not involved. All right?
Okay, great, in some ways that

401
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:51.279
makes it sound better, right,
Okay, God's not involved. So things

402
00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:53.119
are happening, this is happening,
this is happening. I can go through

403
00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:57.240
my life. Okay, I was
beaten with an electric cord, burn with

404
00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:00.480
a curling iron, all the horrible
things that happened to me. But God

405
00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:05.440
didn't have anything to do with it
all? Right, In some ways that's

406
00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:07.839
good. I feel that that's a
little us here to handle, right,

407
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:15.759
But don't tell me then God can
intervene. Because if God can intervene,

408
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:21.240
then what would be the question why
when I was why would when I spent

409
00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:24.519
the night at First Baptist Church Tuscola
begging that my mom wouldn't die as a

410
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:31.640
young person, why did she die? Well, wasn't God's will? Oh

411
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:36.799
so it wasn't God's will that my
mom didn't live, but everyone else's mom

412
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:42.400
lived? Well? What was up
with that trash? And if God,

413
00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:45.160
if prayer can change things, why
couldn't my prayer change God? Andevitably,

414
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:54.640
what does this almost always lead to
Your prayer didn't change God because you didn't

415
00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:59.279
either have enough faith or you didn't
pray right. Somehow it comes down almost

416
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.240
the blame come on you? Now? That makes some people feel better,

417
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:07.800
right, because who gets off the
hook? God? God's off the hook?

418
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:14.559
Who makes me feel better? Well, until it's you that's getting blamed.

419
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:16.400
Now, I'm not saying dr Mini
in you always leads to that,

420
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:21.280
but there's got to be some explanation, right, Either God can get involved

421
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:22.519
or he can't get involved. Well, on one hand, you say,

422
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.280
well, he's not involved in any
of this, it's his permissive will.

423
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:30.079
Well, then God. If God
and his permissive will just allows it to

424
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:34.960
happen and it's freely operating, then
the minute he gets in, he destroys

425
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:39.440
the entire system because now God just
inevitably changed everything. He changes one thing,

426
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:45.320
he changes everything. What would my
life have looked like if my mom

427
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:47.280
would have survived. I don't know
what my life would have looked like my

428
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:52.599
mom would have survived, because remember
I was what three days three days that

429
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:55.800
I was supposed to go to the
house and have dinner with her to see

430
00:34:55.800 --> 00:35:00.599
if there could be any reconciliation.
I there was never any reconciliation. And

431
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:04.679
if she wouldn't have died, I
probably wouldn't have tried to kill myself and

432
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:07.360
spend eight weeks in a psychiatric hospital. What would my life would have looked

433
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:14.639
like if I didn't spend eight weeks
in a psychiatric I have no idea.

434
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:19.320
If Texas Instruments didn't close down and
move away and all the things that happened

435
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:22.440
with me at Texas Instruments, I
probably would never would have joined the military.

436
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:25.840
So if I let God saved my
job, if we would have saved

437
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:29.199
my job, I would have never
been in the military. Well, if

438
00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:31.199
I never been in the military,
I would have never had the situation with

439
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:36.400
anthrax which almost killed me. Then
now gives me neurological problems and a seizure

440
00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:40.320
disorder. But if God wouldn't have
given me that, I probably would have

441
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:43.800
been deployed and I'd have been able
to be a pastor during this. So

442
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:50.159
like I, with one intervention would
change everything. So then can God is

443
00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:53.079
God? Then you can't. Then
once God changes one thing, then in

444
00:35:53.119 --> 00:36:00.159
a sense God has then guiding and
directing everything. So this one kind of

445
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:04.639
falls apart. But I didn't ask
Ai to write a prayer from an Armenian

446
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.320
prayer because you know our mini and
prayers, because you've all been praying like

447
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:12.519
an Armenian your entire Christian life.
Because you pray for what God? Do

448
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:14.480
this? God? Change this God? Do this? God? Change this

449
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:15.960
God? Do this God? Change
this God? Do this God? Do

450
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.159
this? Do this? Do this. Whenever you ask for a prayer,

451
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:22.599
you want God to do something.
And I understand why you want God to

452
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:30.039
do something. I understand it I
got, I can, I can.

453
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:31.760
I could give you my prayer list
right now, the things I want God

454
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:42.239
to change for me, right,
I mean, don't you have your list

455
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:47.760
now? The reform way, I'm
supposed to simply say your will be done.

456
00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:52.159
Now you do what now. I
didn't go into this in the second

457
00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:55.519
hour, but just do know the
calvinistic one can be very troubling as well.

458
00:36:55.639 --> 00:36:59.880
Just make sure it's got its own
problems, right, because in the

459
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:02.000
Holtvinistic way, you're like, well, God's will is whatever comes to pass.

460
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:06.639
It's unchangeable. So my child is
sick, well I'm not going to

461
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:09.000
get medical attention because it's God's will
that they're sick, and so I'll just

462
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:13.119
trust God. Well, trust me. That's happened way too many times in

463
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.800
history and kids have died as a
result of it. So that one's got

464
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:24.119
its own major implications. Does everybody
understand that that's got major problems now?

465
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:28.440
In the armeny and it would make
perfect sense. Will natural processes happened,

466
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:30.360
the child gets sick, I pray
for God to do something, and then

467
00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:34.400
I do whatever I need to do
to get the kid better, because this

468
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:37.159
is a part of God's permissive will. He may not even be involved in

469
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:38.800
the situation, but I'm going to
ask him to get involved. The problem

470
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:44.760
is asking God to get involved.
Is where now the armeny inside falls apart,

471
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:46.840
right, Because I can't really ask
God to get involved because if God

472
00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:52.320
gets involved, then it's not natural
processes. He's involved now, it's being

473
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:59.039
supernaturally driven. Does that make sense, right? What's the third view?

474
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:08.400
Open theism? The Dazzlers can tell
you all about open theism because they had

475
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:15.079
an elder at their church start teaching
open theism who is then removed or kind

476
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.800
of excommunicated, and then the next
week he went to another church to teach

477
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:22.280
open theism, so and he's an
oultar there. So you see a church

478
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:25.239
discipline really is a waste of time. But that's a whole different subject.

479
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:34.719
Okay, what is open theism?
Well, basically God is in a dynamic

480
00:38:34.760 --> 00:38:39.559
relationship with his creation and the future
is not fully determined and open theism God

481
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:45.280
basically doesn't know everything that's going to
happen, and he is not sovereignly declaring

482
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:49.840
everything to happen. There's an openness
in God, I think is the way

483
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:53.280
they like to use the phrase an
openness. In God, he doesn't know

484
00:38:53.440 --> 00:39:07.960
all things. He's not determining all
things, he's not decreeing all things all

485
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:12.000
right. Now, in open theism, you start off with God as in

486
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:15.480
a dynamic relationship with his creation,
and the future is not fully determined.

487
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:16.960
So in open theism, if someone
comes to me with prayer, I start

488
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:20.920
off with going, well, the
future is not determined, so let's go

489
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.840
to God, right, And so
what is the purpose of prayer and open

490
00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:30.599
theism. It is a genuine interaction
with God who can and that God can

491
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:37.119
be moved by human petitions and can
respond to bring about different outcomes. They

492
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:40.800
can bring about a different outcome because
the outcome is not already determined, and

493
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:47.800
it's not only is it not determined, it's not known. Now why is

494
00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:52.039
that critical? Well, in there
are many in view. They may believe

495
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:58.199
God knows it, right, But
here's the thing. If God knows what's

496
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:05.440
going to happen prior to it happening, what then must happen what he knows,

497
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.519
which means it's predetermined. The Armenians
play this weird game where that well,

498
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:13.920
he knows it, but then it
could work this way. That makes

499
00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:16.119
no sense. That's where open theism
ultimately arises. It's like, well,

500
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:20.159
God can't know it, because if
he knows it, it has to happen.

501
00:40:20.199 --> 00:40:23.480
It's already predetermined. God's knowledge can't
change. But if he doesn't know,

502
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:31.559
then there's real possibility for what really
a different outcome. The only problem

503
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:36.360
is that kind of so we have
a God who what it doesn't know.

504
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:45.639
It's not all knowing and and so
right, he's not soffering, but you

505
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:49.199
can see why some people want open
theism. That makes a lot more sense.

506
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:53.360
Right, that's a real conversation like
that would make prayer a much more

507
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:57.920
a very real conversation, would it
not, Hey, because I'm talking to

508
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.920
God who doesn't know, and he's
like, oh, this is happening,

509
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:02.679
and I'm kin leading yes, And
then all I have to do is convince

510
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:05.960
God, Hey, God, here's
the reason you need to do so.

511
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:07.719
And then God will be like,
you know what, let's do that because

512
00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:13.920
he doesn't know the future. So
it's like a real conversation with someone,

513
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:19.599
but you're almost talking to someone who's
very much on your level, which is

514
00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:28.679
kind of problematic, right, yes, all right, all right. One

515
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:32.519
example of this kind of view would
teach that God's knowledge of potential decisions includes

516
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:37.840
knowing how believers prayers fit into his
overall plan, but he doesn't really know

517
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:40.840
a lot in that particular. Oh, I'm sorry. The example an open

518
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:45.519
theist, I'm sorry, I'm reading
a different view. They would prayer that

519
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:50.400
prayer is a powerful means of influencing
the future and experiencing God's empathy and partnership.

520
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:53.039
So in the open theistic way,
basically, prayers a way to change

521
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:57.519
things. Prayers a way to change
things. So in the our many in

522
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:00.000
view, prayers a way to change
things. In the open view, clearly

523
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:04.400
as a way to change things.
The Calvinistic view, prayer doesn't change anything.

524
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:08.039
Nobody likes to hear that. All
right, So what have we got

525
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:23.320
so far? We got reformed Armenian
open theism. What's next? I'll spell

526
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:27.239
it. I'll see who who has
ever heard of this? You're ready?

527
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:37.800
M O L I N I S
T. Molinist the Molinist perspective. How

528
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:45.960
many are familiar with the Molinist perspective? Okay, all right, think of

529
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:52.719
Molinist perspective. Some we refer to
this as middle knowledge. God knows all

530
00:42:52.960 --> 00:43:04.679
possible outcomes based on human free will. So God knows all the possible outcomes,

531
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:07.159
but based on human free will.
So your will is free and God

532
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:14.000
kind of knows all the possible outcomes
that could play out. That's kind of

533
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:21.000
where you start, all right,
Now, Prayer in this case aligns believers

534
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:24.000
with God's will and can be a
part of God's plan based on his middle

535
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:31.199
knowledge of how free agents would act. So you're kind of aligning yourself with

536
00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:35.880
God's will and you but you can
and trying to make yourself a part of

537
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:38.599
God's plan, and He's gonna do
so based on how he know and how

538
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:43.840
he knows how free agents from people
who are free will act. It's very

539
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:47.320
it's very almost in some ways that
doesn't really help anything, right, Okay,

540
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:52.360
So God knows all the possible outcomes, and then I pray, and

541
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:55.920
then God's gonna work somehow based on
all of his knowledge of all the possible

542
00:43:55.920 --> 00:44:00.559
outcomes. But it almost kind of
carries the idea that God is gonna kind

543
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:02.920
of look and see what all the
possible outcomes are and then choose the best

544
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:10.239
possible outcome somehow based on your prayers. That's all. I don't I don't

545
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:15.760
know. There's probably a reason this
one was created. I'm just having a

546
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:20.599
hard time trying to understand what this
really solves. Does this make sense all?

547
00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:25.360
Right? This is basically teaches that
God's knowledge of potential decisions includes knowing

548
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:29.960
how believers prayers fit into his overall
plan. So it's like, well,

549
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:32.280
God just knows everything, and then
he's I guess he's just gonna choose based

550
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:36.519
on him knowing all the possible outcomes, which outcome, I guess you're praying

551
00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:44.000
for that. I don't even know
what to do. I don't even have

552
00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:46.400
enough argument to argue against it,
right, I should have asked AI to

553
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:50.280
write a Molinist prayer, but I
didn't. I will have to do that

554
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:52.199
to see if even it, because
I would like to know what it sounds

555
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.840
like. But I think it's clearly
gonna go with the idea ultimately of doing

556
00:44:55.880 --> 00:45:04.840
what trying to to have God choose
the best possible outcome based on him knowing

557
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:08.079
all the best possible outcomes. So
it's still trying to get God to change

558
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:15.159
something. So ultimately, when every
system seeks what to change God except for

559
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:20.000
the reformed, even though reform people
ask God to change things all the time,

560
00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:22.320
which means they're not really reformed.
If I say that, people will

561
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:34.440
get mad. All right, Okay, here's some tensions that we will have

562
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:36.960
to address quickly. I'm just going
to go through these quickly. You don't

563
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.440
have to write any of this down. The problem of suffering in God's role

564
00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:45.760
in it is a profound mystery.
Many theologians acknowledge that human understanding is limited,

565
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:50.000
and that faith involves trusting God's wisdom
and goodness despite not fully comprehending his

566
00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:53.119
ways. I think we can clearly
dogmatically assert that when it comes to God,

567
00:45:53.239 --> 00:46:00.000
what can we just assume we don't
understand? Just go ahead and write

568
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:05.559
that down dogmatically. I don't understand. I don't understand why I'm supposed to

569
00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:07.960
pray to the very God who decreed
something to happen and cause something to happen,

570
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:10.559
or at the very least, did
nothing to stop it from happening.

571
00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:14.599
Why would I come to that God
now to do anything like? I will

572
00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:19.639
never understand. That makes absolutely no
sense. But with the Bible itself says

573
00:46:19.639 --> 00:46:22.360
God's ways are not our ways,
and his thoughts and our thoughts, it

574
00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:29.559
makes absolutely no sense to me,
makes absolutely no sense to me. In

575
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:30.639
fact, it really kind of If
I'm just being honest, it ticks me

576
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:37.199
off. Why would I pray to
a God to help me and my abuse

577
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:42.079
when he's the one who decreed my
abuse is the way he didn't decree it.

578
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.280
Well, you can try to get
him the whole secondary cause thing,

579
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:47.480
but then the minute you say God
didn't decree this or God didn't decree that,

580
00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:52.719
then then God's not in charge.
So then you begin and inevitably it

581
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:57.559
falls apart. And I understand this
leads to it. The reform view leads

582
00:46:57.599 --> 00:47:00.239
to a really big one that we
nobody wants to address. Right, if

583
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:04.119
God decrees, all things come to
pass. I know that how we reform

584
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:06.800
people try to get around it.
But then what about your sin and my

585
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.159
sin? Well, did he know
my sin was going to take place?

586
00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:14.719
Yes? Does he do anything to
stop it? Well, we know even

587
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:20.519
from the Bible, there's times he
does nothing. Like there are situations where

588
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:23.920
God seems to step in in David's
life. You have clear times where God

589
00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:30.079
seems to intervene. When God when
David walked up and lied to the priest,

590
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:34.719
it's like, hey, I'm on
a mission from God, right,

591
00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:38.239
And he straight up lied and they
gave him provision, and then the king

592
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:40.599
comes in. They're like, you
lied to me. What does the king

593
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:46.360
do? Kill eighty of the priests
and then puts the entire town to sword,

594
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:52.840
meaning man, women and children,
children died because David lied and God

595
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:58.760
didn't intervene at all. And the
very story where God intervened with David to

596
00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:01.840
kill Goliath, but he couldn't intervene
to save a city from being slaughtered.

597
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:15.760
When David numbered the people, how
many people died seventy thousand? Oh,

598
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:22.639
when David had a woman's husband killed, does God step in? No?

599
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:29.480
Forget stopping David from committing adultery.
He could have stopped that just like that.

600
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:34.400
I mean, anything could have happened. No, he now he lets

601
00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:38.480
him commit adultery. He lets David
kill the husband, and David gets the

602
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:45.840
woman. Oh and other women because
you know he's a Oh, and the

603
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:50.840
baby dies. Well, all throughout
that story of David, isn't God stepping

604
00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:54.280
in here or God revealing this,
or God doing this or God doing this?

605
00:48:55.159 --> 00:49:00.039
But no, in that case,
it's just no big deal. God

606
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:05.760
could intervene and part the Red Sea. But when Moses gets ready to strike

607
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:13.360
the rock, God couldn't just say, don't strike the rock. But he

608
00:49:13.400 --> 00:49:15.719
strikes the rock, and then what
happens to Moses? I'm sorry, you

609
00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:20.199
don't get to go to the Promised
Land. I've intervened a million different ways,

610
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:23.239
but h hey, hey, did
he not speak directly to Moses?

611
00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:29.039
He couldn't spoke directly to Moses right
when he lifted up and he went stop?

612
00:49:29.239 --> 00:49:37.760
Okay, no, does that not
bother you? Like? That's trash?

613
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:42.400
Okay, that's not they got.
You can step in and all of

614
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:46.239
these situations, but you can't step
in to stop sin. Oh well,

615
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:50.559
sometimes he can, because when Sarah
was handed over, what did he do

616
00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:57.480
both times intervene to stop Sarah from
being defiled or used? Oh? He

617
00:49:57.519 --> 00:50:04.079
didn't step in to help Hagar?
Did he? Oh? God can send

618
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:10.519
angels in to Sodom, But when
Lot's daughters are getting him drunk to commit

619
00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:14.920
incest, I don't know. God
couldn't step in and go. I think

620
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:21.800
maybe this is not a good idea
utterly maddening, is it not? Like

621
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:29.000
the more you read the bibble warmark, I don't understand. So can we

622
00:50:29.119 --> 00:50:35.159
just dogmatically assert when it comes to
all of this, we don't understand.

623
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:38.119
And you know what we don't do
when we don't understand. We don't go

624
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:45.480
with these foolish, silly I'll try
to be nice, ignorant, dumb church

625
00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:52.159
answers that seems to make all the
church people so happy and comfortable. Where

626
00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:54.679
their a little fake religion. I
don't want a Hallmark religion. I don't

627
00:50:54.679 --> 00:51:00.320
want a Disney religion. If you
want that, there's plenty of churches sell

628
00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:04.000
you that trash. But guess what
they're not selling you, not anything dealing

629
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:09.639
with reality. Reality is ugly?
Is it not ugly? Again? If

630
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:13.679
you don't believe me, look up
the numbers of how many children have been

631
00:51:13.719 --> 00:51:22.519
sexually molested inside churches since nineteen seventy
you'll probably throw up. I mean again,

632
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:28.480
the situation. Everyone's talking about it. In Dallas, Robert Morris came

633
00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:30.039
out, you know, sexual in
morality. I'm like, oh no,

634
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:34.400
that's bad. Sexual morality with a
twelve year old, that's really bad.

635
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:47.400
Where was God? I'm not excusing
his sin, everybody understand It bothers me

636
00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:52.559
that God wouldn't stop him from sinning. Really bothers me that God wouldn't stop

637
00:51:52.559 --> 00:52:04.400
the twelve year old from being abused. So then the question is what's the

638
00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:07.840
purpose of prayer? Well, if
we go from the reform perspective, it's

639
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:12.559
simply to do what to align ourselves
with God's will. I don't necessarily understand

640
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:21.760
it in a sense. Reform view
sees prayer as aligning with God's sovereign plan

641
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:24.000
and finding comfort in his purpose.
Our Minianism used prayer as a means of

642
00:52:24.039 --> 00:52:30.119
seeking God's compassionate intervention. Open Theism
emphasizes the dynamic and empathetic relationship between God

643
00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:35.360
and believers, and Molanism incorporates prayer
into God's wise governance based on his middle

644
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:45.000
knowledge. I don't have any other
answers other than that. I mean,

645
00:52:45.039 --> 00:52:49.840
we could get into how I could
go through the history of how Christians have

646
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:54.320
tried to understand God's you know,
his eternal decrees and his providence, and

647
00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:59.320
in some place we'll track that down. It's very difficult. I don't have

648
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:01.760
any easy answer. Or is that? Can everyone say amen, it's uncomfortable?

649
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:07.519
Yeah? Amen? Can we say
that this is what we want to

650
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:13.519
hear. But you know why we
have to be the ones to face it

651
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:16.559
is because we're the ones running around
shoving in everyone's place. God exists,

652
00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:20.400
and if you don't believe, you'll
burn a hell. Well, if we're

653
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:23.519
gonna be yelling that, I think
we we have to have some willingness to

654
00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:29.639
do what we got to confront the
consequences of believing in a god. The

655
00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:34.119
minutes you say you believe Genesis one
to one, all of these problems are

656
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:38.400
your problems. They're not the problems
of the atheist or the agnostic. They're

657
00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:43.000
the person sitting in the pew.
You're telling that atheist there is a God

658
00:53:43.159 --> 00:53:45.480
who created the heavens and the earth, who's all powerful, all knowing,

659
00:53:45.639 --> 00:53:49.880
and who will put you in hell. Well, then I got questions.

660
00:53:49.880 --> 00:53:52.800
If God can put people in hell, then God should be able to do

661
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:59.480
something here to fix the hell that
exists on earth. And guess what,

662
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:04.039
that's a reasonable question to ask,
is it not? And what's the answer?

663
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:15.639
Come on, what's the answer?
We don't know. That's the only

664
00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:20.639
answer I've got. And this carries
out everything I said about psaw eighty three.

665
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:24.480
Saw many three is another example of
people who live who believe in a

666
00:54:24.519 --> 00:54:31.599
god in whom they cannot see,
confronted by realities that we very much can

667
00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:37.159
see. That calls into question the
God in whom we cannot see. All

668
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:40.360
of the things we've talked about is
inevitable with that, But we have to

669
00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:45.840
deal with this reality. When you
come to me and say pray, you're

670
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:51.440
asking me to pray to the very
God that, at the very minimum did

671
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:58.280
what knew what happened and allowed it
to happen. And at the very most

672
00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:06.079
he decreed it, guided it,
directed it, and his will is immutable.

673
00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:13.480
So the best prayer that we can
pray is a prayer that comes from

674
00:55:13.559 --> 00:55:23.760
artificial intelligence. And why can artificial
intelligence pray so well no emotion? Like

675
00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:27.960
I can read that prayer from AI
and go, man, you're you pray

676
00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:32.159
so good, but you're a piece
of garbage because if you had ever suffered,

677
00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:37.800
you would never be able to pray
that way. Now I can pray

678
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:40.840
that way. If Sarah is facing
some horrible calamity, I can pray,

679
00:55:42.400 --> 00:55:45.320
Dear Lord, let Sarah accept his
sorry, like I can pray. I

680
00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:46.880
won't pray that prayer in front of
her because she'd slap me in the face

681
00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:50.400
and go, what's your problem?
I need I need something to happen,

682
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:52.960
and that would make sense, right, But in private, I can just

683
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:58.800
be like, well, okay,
you decreted, you're sovereign. I don't

684
00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:00.719
know what else to do. I
don't know why those really she wants me

685
00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:05.079
to say to you right now,
but other than your will be done.

686
00:56:05.239 --> 00:56:09.800
And it's a very quick prayer.
I don't like it, you don't like

687
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:14.239
nobody likes it? Right? Can
we all agree? But those are the

688
00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:16.239
ways now, so you say,
so, which way do you think is

689
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:20.159
the best way to approach it?
I look, I can't go with open

690
00:56:20.199 --> 00:56:24.119
theism. Mollinism makes no sense,
and the Armenian view really doesn't make any

691
00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:27.639
sense either if you just think about
it. Because the minute I ask God

692
00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:30.280
to get involved. If this is
if I was going to go with the

693
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:32.199
Armenian view, this is the view
I would go with. God created the

694
00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:37.239
world and he has an ultimate plan, right I knew heaven, new Earth.

695
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:42.679
He's going to make all things right. And then in the meantime salvation

696
00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:45.000
has been offered by Christ. But
everything else that takes place, God has

697
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:53.719
decided to do. What Now if
I go with that view, then what's

698
00:56:53.719 --> 00:57:00.519
the point of praying? There's no
point because because God's not doing anything.

699
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:04.760
Hey God, I can tell God
what's going on. I can convoice my

700
00:57:04.840 --> 00:57:07.639
complaint, but God, You're not
gonna get involved because the minute he gets

701
00:57:07.639 --> 00:57:10.559
involved, the armeni in you begins
to fall apart. Right, if God's

702
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:15.840
getting involved, if he changes one
thing, what happens. I mean,

703
00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:21.000
if you've ever watched movies about time
travel or anything like that, they constantly

704
00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:23.280
always demonstrate this, Right, if
you go back and change one thing,

705
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:32.679
So then I can't get God involved
in any way, shape or form.

706
00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:36.559
So in some ways I almost feel
more comfortable with just saying, Okay,

707
00:57:36.679 --> 00:57:39.559
I know there's a God, I
know salvation is real, but as far

708
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:43.440
as what he's doing now. But
then at the same time, I have

709
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:49.320
trouble with that because God intervened a
million times in the pages of this so

710
00:57:49.400 --> 00:57:52.599
then I have to believe God is
intervening. All right, Well then now,

711
00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:55.199
so what do I do? If
God is intervening? Then the only

712
00:57:55.199 --> 00:57:59.920
place I can find, and I'm
not saying it brings comfort, is just

713
00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:02.679
somehow God is sovereignly controlling, guiding
and directing, and I don't understand it.

714
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:06.360
So you say, well, what
do you do when you face the

715
00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:12.760
circumstance? Well, trust God as
sovereign submit to it, say your will,

716
00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:17.639
not my will, be done right
A voice my pleasure, displeasure,

717
00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:23.239
my frustration, my aggravation, my
anger. Because we see that interesting when

718
00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:28.519
you read job. Job never really
asks God to change anything. He just

719
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:34.079
voices his displeasure and confusion to God. Joseph, we never seem to find

720
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:38.039
him praying for God to change his
circumstances. But they both acknowledge God is

721
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:44.400
involved in the circumstances, and yet
they continue to act in the midst of

722
00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:46.840
those circumstances. Right, So my
thing is, I'm going to trust God

723
00:58:46.840 --> 00:58:51.000
as sovereign. I'm going to submit
to his will. But then as I'm

724
00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:54.559
living out my life, I'm going
to act and do according to what I

725
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:59.519
think is best as long as I'm
not violating scripture. I'm going to act

726
00:58:59.679 --> 00:59:02.599
and then believe this somehow all of
that will work in accordance with God's will

727
00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:07.840
and how the two works together.
Guess what I end up with. I

728
00:59:07.880 --> 00:59:15.119
don't have any clue, but I
know that ultimately what will be done God's

729
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:17.000
will. Now does that kind of
bother me? Say? It kind of

730
00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:21.719
bothers me because I'm like God,
if you're sovereign and you're guiding and controlling

731
00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:30.280
and directing. Could you just stop
me from sinning ever again? Wouldn't it

732
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:36.920
be great? All right? I
wish I had better answers, But the

733
00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:40.480
world's talking about it, okay,
Bill Maher on his Real Time with Bill

734
00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:44.880
Maher. I mean he went off
on Christians about all of this. I

735
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:49.199
mean, here's some strong language.
He went off on Christians about how utterly

736
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:52.199
foolish we are in regards to this
and other people even on the Christian Post

737
00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:58.119
even comments have been about the assassination
of Donald Trump and the fire at First

738
00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:01.559
Baptist in Dallas. Many of them
have it out. You Christians say the

739
01:00:01.639 --> 01:00:06.719
dumbest things. God, this God, this God, that your God is

740
01:00:06.719 --> 01:00:09.519
the one allow it all to happen
and did nothing to stop it. Now

741
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:13.119
you want me to pray to that
very same God, Well, guess what.

742
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:15.880
If the world can raise those questions, then guess who should be at

743
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:21.719
the forefront of addressing those questions?
The Church? And guess what. We

744
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:24.320
don't address those questions by just simply
dismissing them as saying they're unbelievers, so

745
01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:29.559
they're dumb, because in many cases
they're smarter than we are. Because they

746
01:00:29.559 --> 01:00:34.039
can see the problem, where in
many cases we can't see the problem because

747
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:37.960
in some cases Christianity is the very
thing that will actually stop the brain from

748
01:00:38.039 --> 01:00:44.239
working, which it should never be
the case. If we're Christians, we

749
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:47.559
should believe the brain should be working
over time, because we believe God gave

750
01:00:47.639 --> 01:00:53.880
us a brain and we should be
good stewards of it. So well,

751
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:59.800
in there, well, God,
we come before you this afternoon. Lord.

752
01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:02.599
All we can acknowledge, probably after
two hours, is that you're God.

753
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:12.719
We are not. And we don't
understand. And we asked this in

754
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:15.639
Jesus name, and God's people said