Feb. 7, 2025

Permanent and Provisional Pt 2

Permanent and Provisional Pt 2

We continue our look at a list of things that come to us in salvation.

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We continue our look at a list of things that come to us in salvation.

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good afternoon everyone.

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It is Friday, February the seventh, twenty twenty five. It

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is currently four eighteen pm Central Time, and I'm coming

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to you live from the Theology Central studio located right

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here in Abilene, Texas. Well. I don't know if you

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still have that paper in front of you that you

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were to use a few episodes back, but if you do,

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you need to pull up, pull out that piece of paper.

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I know what you're thinking. You always tell me to

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grab a piece of paper. You're telling me to write

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this down, and write this down. I stop doing that

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three years ago. I don't participate anymore. I understand. But

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grab that piece of paper. If you didn't listen to

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the last episode or the last few episodes, you have

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no idea what we're talking about. But grab that piece

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of paper, and on that piece of paper, you're supposed

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to have two very important words written down. One is permanent,

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the other one is provisional. Permanent and provisional. And I'm

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going to explain what you're supposed to be doing with

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these two words, permanent and provisional because you're supposed to

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be determining what things are permanent, what things are provisional,

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from a specific list that I gave you in that broadcast.

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I did what yesterday, I don't even know what day.

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It was. A few broadcasts back, all right, and you

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can go look for permanent, permanent and provisional or permanent.

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I think permanent and provisional, I think, is what I

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called it Part one. I didn't have the part one

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there because I was going to call this something different.

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But we're just going to go with permanent and provisional

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Part one, Part two, Part three, Part four, and then

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I think maybe then we'll break this down to individual

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words as we move through. So we've got to I

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think this is going to turn into a pretty lengthy

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kind of discussion and hopefully over time, will you know,

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people will think it to be beneficial. Some people may

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not even see why it's important. I think it's important.

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It brings in a lot of very important philological issues

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that we will discuss as we move forward. But before

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we really get started, just a very quick reminder I

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did kind of a quick broadcast a few days ago,

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just reminding you we talked about the Spotify podcasting charts,

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and if you look at the religion a spirituality chart,

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it's filled with just I mean to say, heresy is

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an understatement in some cases, some really messed up stuff.

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And I'm like, the only way you're going to get anything,

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You've got to get the Spotify algorithm to pick up

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more biable, central Bible based theological sound podcast And the

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only way you're going to do this is people have

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to go listen. They have to download that to stream

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on Spotify. You don't need a Spotify account. You can

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just use it as a podcast app for free. You

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don't have to subscribe to it anything. It is the

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number one podcasting app out there. So if Sound Biblical

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Theology is not being found on Spotify, you may say, well,

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who cares, we don't want to be a part of that.

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Well you can do that, and you can go hide somewhere,

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and you can just stay on a Christian site, you know,

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and not let anyone find your content. Or you can

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just have a church website somewhere that no one's ever

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going to look up and find because they have to

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look for your specific church. Or you can be a

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place your content out there in the you know, the marketplace,

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and hopefully people will stumble upon it when they're looking.

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So I really not even about my podcast. I say,

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whatever you feel as a biblical based podcast, listen to it,

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download it, stream it, search for it on Spotify, and

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gauge it over and over and over. Give it a

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five star rating, anything you can do so that the

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algorithm will pick it up and hopefully enough people will

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find it and it'll show up on that chart. And

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along with it, I said, hey, Theology Central is on

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the Spotify app. Please go give it a five star rating,

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follow us, listen, stream, download, and within what was it,

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forty eight hours? I believe that was the timeframe. I looked.

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Within forty eight hours, we'd had six hundred people go

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look on Spotify, listen stream, they engaged it in some capacity.

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So six hundred is not a you know, we get

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far bigger numbers everywhere else. But hey, that's a good

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start and we're going to continue to build on that.

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So if you have Spotify, look for Theology Central. When

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you do a search, you're going to see two of them.

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One of them is going to be the black background

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with the microphone and the green lettering that comes from

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the Church one Sermon's two point zero Sermon Audio feed

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RS feed, it's coming from there. Get the other one

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that's the green background with the circle and the Bible

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in the middle of sys Theology Central. That's our actual

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podcasting feed. That's the one that's the one we kind

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of typically try to build off of because that one's

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already in the top five percent of all podcasts in

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the world, So that that's the one we kind of

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and that's if that that's the one that has the

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greater chance of getting on the Spotify chart. The sermonadio

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feed has no chance because all the numbers we get

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from the church one Sermon's two point oh app doesn't

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have any impact on the podcast ratings because they don't

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pull those numbers from from anything associated with the sermon

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audio platform. It's just those numbers are not available for

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some reason. So yeah, it's just weird how it all works.

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But yeah, you have to you have to. You have

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to have a master's degree and trying to figure it

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out and keep it all all straight. But so yeah,

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but we do have two feeds, and so some people say,

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why do you have two feeds? Well, if I got

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two RSS, feeds. I'm going to use both of them.

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That's what I'm going to do, all right, So check

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it out on Spotify and if you can't find it,

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let me know and I'll I'll send you to the

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direct one. Now, with all of that said, I gave

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you plenty of time. See, while I was doing all

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of that, you had plenty of time to go find

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your paper. Right you can be yelling at people, where

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is the permanent and provisional list? What did your kids

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do with it? Okay? All right, so you got it?

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All right? Here we go. Remember this all began because

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in the January the third twenty twenty five issue of

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the sort of the Lord newspaper, they had an article

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on page twenty one entitled seventeen things that come with

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Christ you believe in Christ, and seventeen things follow that.

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That's the key thesis and the article they utilized Hebrew

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six ' nine as kind of their text, And they

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only used the text really as just to launch into

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this kind of topical idea of all the things that

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follow salvation, because they really, in no way, shape or

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form handled here six 't nine anywhere anywhere close to

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the way it should be handled. Remember, in fact, that's

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what led me to do that entire hour long study

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on you cannot, I mean, Hebrews must be understood in

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light of eighty seventy for people who want me to

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say it correctly or the way it just more naturally

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flows in English seventy a d. All right, AD seventy

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or seventy eight. No matter how you say it, you

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have to understand the Book of Hebrews and light of

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that date. If you do not understand Hebrews and light

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of AD seventy, then you you just destroy its actual

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meaning and you turn it into being about us, and

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then it comes into debates about salvation. Can you lose

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your salvation because you're misinterpreting all the warning passages and

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you're not understanding what it's actually about? All right? So

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we did that because well, it started with Hebrews and

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it didn't handle Hebrews correctly. So now what we're going

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to do when we get through all of this permanent

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provisional discussion, we will circle back and then do actual

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work on Hebrew six ' nine and understand that in

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light of eighty seventy or seventy a D. Right. But

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let me just remind you how the article began, so

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the first of the quote from Hebrew six ' nine.

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But beloved, we are persuaded better things of you and

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things that accompany salvation. Right now, we'd have to go

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to Hebrew six and work on all of that, but

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we're not going to do that right now. It's something

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that happens in the article. Right so they have then

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the first paragraph, which we've read now numerous times. Let

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me read it one more time. Good news. When you

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receive Christ, you receive not only eternal life, but also

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many other things that came with Christ. At that time,

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you may have been unaware and unknowing. Even now you

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may be aware and unknowing of all that, all the

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bundled things you received with Christ inconceivable. Now, of course

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you'll notice they quoted Hebrews six 's nine and immediately

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made it about us. Lose my mind. We had this

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discussion earlier. Today people do the same thing with Psalm

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one over and over and over. I don't understand the

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It just seems the common practice within Christianity to go

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to the Bible and make it about us. And even

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though we say we have to care about the original recipients,

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we really don't but all right, we can get into

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that discussion later. Right here we go, So then make

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it about us. You can see the direction they're going.

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You receive Christ. Now what are those things that accompany

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salvation for us? For me and you? Right, they're gonna

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make it about us. Okay, we're not going to get

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into that debate right now. Okay, second paragraph add salvation

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Christ welcomes you into the family of God with at

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least seventeen additional we unearned and unexpected gifts. Now, you're

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supposed to have a list of these seventeen. I gave

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you that list, right, that list those seventeen gifts. So,

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according to this the thesis of this article, when you

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became a Christian, you received seventeen additional gifts that flows

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from your salvation seventeen. Right, They go on to say,

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these are Now they're going to give you the seventeen

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and you're supposed to have these written down. All right,

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I'm going to give them to you one more time

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because we may have people who tune into part two.

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He didn't tune into part one. That happens all the time.

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Are you ready? Here we go? These are Here are

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the seventeen number one oh, I'm not going to count

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them out. Just write them down if you haven't. Faith, belief, repentance, atonement, imputation, reconciliation, ransom, regeneration, justification, grace, mercy, propitiation, adoption, redemption, sanctification, peace,

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and eternal life. Besides these in my list, there may

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be more incomprehensible, right, So those are the seventeen. Now,

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when I originally read this article, like, okay, seventeen, what

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I wanted to do is make a list of the seventeen.

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And I thought, well, you know, it would be kind

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of cool maybe to just do, here are the seventeen

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things that come with Christ, and then we would do

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an episode per one, every word right for each one, faith, belief, repentance,

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and break it down that way. We still may do that,

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but that was my initial thought, let's do that. However,

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it was the next well, the next thing is just

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a sentence, so that didn't do much for me. It

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just says, when you receive Jesus, you also receive these

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seventeen things. Okay, So for every single Christian who receives Jesus,

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according to this article, for every single Christian who receives Jesus,

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you receive these seventeen things. So those seventeen things you received,

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and I'm like, okay, got you all right, all right,

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now let's take these apart. But the article then did

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something interesting. The article then broke those seventeen things down

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into two groups or two categories. The article claims that

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ten of those that I listed are permanent and seven

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are provisional. Now, permanent means you got it once. It

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doesn't change, it doesn't increase, doesn't decrease, it's just there.

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It's permanent. To be provisional, the way they argue is

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that it provides, it's provided when it's needed. So ten

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are permanent, seven are provisional. That caught me off guard, right.

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That's when the article I was like, wait a minute,

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what Okay. I've definitely had plenty of classes and courses

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and different things about all the things that follow from salvation. Okay,

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I had to do an entire project, and I loved

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working on that and it was it was interesting and fun.

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But I don't think I ever saw it broken down

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into permanent versus provisional. If I did, I completely forgot,

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but it caught. So this caught my attention. I'm like, okay,

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so how do we process this. Well, what we're going

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to do is this is the kind of the strategy

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we're going to do a little bit of work on

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just trying to understand this argument about permanent and provisional.

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We then will kind of go back at Hebrew six

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' nine in its original context, and then we're going

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to work through slowly but surely, I don't know over

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the next I don't know how long. My goal is

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to try to just take one of these one word,

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one word, each one of these things I should say,

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not the word, well, the word itself, but each one

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of these things and talk about it, so whether it's propitiation,

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whether it's regeneration, whether it's redemption, and just maybe do

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one broadcast for each one. I know it's going to

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be hard to do that in one to do one

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to cover one in one broadcast, because each one of

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those could be you know, an entire semester in Bible College.

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But I think that's what we're going to do. So

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I hope this all fits together, But for today, I

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just want to take this time to kind of just

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step back and look at this whole permanent provisional distinction

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and see what we can do with it all right. So,

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as we've now stated, the article breaks these seventeen things

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that come with Christ into two categories. Now this is

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now I'm gonna give you. I challenge you to come

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up with your own breakdown and how which ones you

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would put in which category. Now I'm gonna show you

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how the article categorize these. All right, here are the

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ten permanent gifts. According to this article, these are fixed.

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According to the article, these are unchangeable, and they are

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given equally to all believers. They cannot be lost, altered

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or taken away. So, according to this article, the permanent

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gifts are you ready, are fixed, unchangeable, given equally to

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all believers. They cannot be lost, they cannot be altered,

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and they cannot be taken away. The permanent gifts include

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number one, atonement, number two, ransom number three, imputation number four,

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reconciliation number five, regeneration number six, justification number seven, propitiation

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number eight, adoption number nine, redemption, and number ten eternal life.

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So according to this article, this thesis is that there

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are ten permanent gifts that you receive basically at salvation,

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it flows from your salvation, and that these are fixed,

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they are unchangeable, They are given equally to all believers.

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They cannot be lost, they cannot be altered, and they

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cannot be taken away for anything. These are permanent. And

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those ten things that are supposedly permanent are atonement, ransom, amputation, reconciliation, regeneration, justification, propitiation, adoption, redemption,

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and eternal life. Some would say all of these would

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be then very much connected to salvation itself. I think

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you can see that right now. There's a lot there.

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We can get into a discussion about it, as you

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want you to see. According to the article, these ten

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are permanent. And again, the way this would be understood

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is these are fixed, unchangeable, given equally to all believers.

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They cannot be lost, altered, or taken away. Those are

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the permanent ones. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Now

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your theological is gonna have lots of opinions here, but

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that's okay. Now, what are the provisional gifts? Well, the

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provisional gifts, there are seven of them. Now you can

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already look at your list and probably know the seven

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that's going to be considered provisional here. Now, provisional this

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means these seven are available when needed. They may increase,

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they may decrease, they may change based on a believer's

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spiritual condition and situation. So those others are fixed or unchangeable.

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These seven they're available when they're are needed, and they

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may increase, they may decrease, and they may change, and

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they may change based on a believer spiritual condition and situation.

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Your spiritual condition could change one of these seven provisional

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gifts that supposedly flow from salvation. Now, what are these

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provisional gifts faith? Say? Now, already I have a problem

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to some level because I don't see faith is simply provisional.

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I see faith is also permanent in what way? Well,

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faith is a gift. We are saved by faith alone, right,

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and that is given to us. It's a gift. That

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faith is a gift given to us by God. And

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the faith God gives to us, that's a permanent thing.

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We never will lose that faith given to a faith

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given to us by God cannot be lost, It cannot

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be altered, it cannot be changed. So that says I

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almost want to put that in the permanent category. Now,

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you could argue there's a provisional aspect of faith a

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changeable that our faith may increase or decrease based on

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certain circumstances, situations, struggles, difficulties, sin, pain, tragedy, what I mean,

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all the different things you can go through. But your

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saving faith is not altered or changed. So already I

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have a little bit of a struggle here. The second

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one is belief. Now, what's the distinction between faith and belief? Now?

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I see that's a good one, right, what's the distinction

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between faith and belief? I'm asking you the question? Third

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is repentance. Now, see, I would believe. I believe faith

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and repentance is given to me by God. God gives

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me the faith, God gives me. Repentance and repentance is

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a change of mind. I believe that change of mind

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is permanent. I will permanently change my mind about God.

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I will permanently change my mind about sin. Now is

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there a provisional aspect where that may fluctuate or change? Now,

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if you want to say repentance is something different, well

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then we get into a whole big argument about the

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devil definition of repentance, which we'll we'll have to discuss

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later on. We've talked about that a million times, but

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So is that a provisional thing? You get more repentance,

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you get less repentance. It changes, well maybe to some level,

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but at least the saving repentance, the saving faith, those

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are given to you by God. Peace. Okay, now peace,

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I can see that being. But see again, is there

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not a permanent aspect of peace? When you become a Christian?

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You are now at peace with God. You're no longer

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at war with God. Look that animosity, that war, that conflict,

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it's over. And now in Christ you are at peace

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with God. That's permanent. That will never change because you

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have Christ. So is that not permanent? Is there a

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provisional part of that? You see? Now this gets a

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little confusing. Grace now they put the provisional side. They

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put faith, belief, repentance, peace, and grace in the provisional side.

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Are we gonna say grace is provisional. I'm saved by faith.

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I'm saved by grace alone, through faith alone, because of

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Christ alone. Are you gonna say, now, maybe there's an

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aspect of grace that's provisional. Can you just separate? See

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this distinction here is what just threw me off big time. Right,

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Sanctification Now, I think most people would eat. Well, yeah,

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sanctification is provisional, but I will look wait wait, wait, wait,

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and Christ, I am sanctified. There is a permanent aspect

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of that. When I became a Christian, I am permanently,

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positionally sanctified. That that will not change. I cannot become

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more sanctified. I cannot become less sanctified because I'm sanctified

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in Christ Jesus. I'm declared to be. I am set apart.

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I'm declared to be perfect, righteous and holy in Christ

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Jesus because of an imputed righteousness. There is a permanent

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aspect of sanctification. Now you could say there's a provisional,

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but then the provisional aspect of sanctification, it's like when

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I need it, it shows up, like do I have

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any control over it? Like, okay, how does that work?

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Mercy is the last one. Mercy is provisional, Mercy is provisional. Well,

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I'm having a hard time putting any of these and

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strictly a provisional category. So according to this article, the

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permanent gifts are atonement, ransom. Now, if I was if

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I was in front of a live audience, I would

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make everyone repeat these the permanent gifts are atonement, ransom, imputation, reconciliation, regeneration, justification, propitiation, adoption, redemption,

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and eternal life. The supposed provisional gifts are faith, belief, repentance, peace, grace, sanctification,

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and mercy, and these are described as continually available but

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varying an experience depending on the believer's needs. The distinction

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is made to emphasize that some things are guaranteed at

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salvation while others fluctuate in a believer's life. Some things

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are guaranteed, but other things fluctuate. All right, look at

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that list. Look at that list. Do you see the breakdown?

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Do you have problems with this? So now we're breaking

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down the basic argument within the article. I'm not saying

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whether I agree or disagree. Well, obviously you can tell

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I disagree with some of this provisional stuff. Look, there's

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just I think you. I don't even know why we're

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making the distinction. It's more like, these are the things

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that come from salvation, and then understanding each one of

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them individually, seeing then the positional aspect, the practical aspect,

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and I think that's what we're ultimately going to do.

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I think this distinction is more problematic than it is.

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But let's just try to break this down, all right.

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The argument in this article is when a person receives Christ,

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they receive more than just eternal life. You get more

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than eternal life when you become a Christian. These blessings

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are categorized as permanent, fixed, and provisional variable. Now we've

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looked at the ten permanent, and we've looked at the provisional.

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All right, we've looked at all of these. Okay, permanent

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means they're unchangeable. They're given a salvation. They cannot be lost,

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they cannot be removed, they cannot be altered. We've went

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through all of them. The provisional they are always available,

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but are experienced differently at different comes, at different times.

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We've looked at the provisional ones. Right. The article emphasizes

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that true believers have access to all of these gifts.

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The distinction is meant to help believers understand their security

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in Christ while also relying on God's continual provision. That's

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kind of what the article is trying to say, Hey,

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you have security in Christ because these ten things, these

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ten things are permanent, unchangeable. You can rest you have

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these things and these other seven, well they may fluctuate,

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but that shows you God's always going to be there

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to provide. I think that's what they're attempting to do.

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But I think you're misic characterizing some of those seven. Now,

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some may argue that this characterization, this kind of categorizing,

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putting them in different categories. Some may argue that it's

401
00:26:58.279 --> 00:27:04.359
trying to show the difference between justification and sanctification. Justification

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00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:11.319
is fixed, it is permanent. Sanctification fluctuates, it changes. So

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00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:13.839
it seems like whoever put the article together is trying

404
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:17.279
to say, well, these things relate to justification, permanent, these

405
00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:21.400
things relate to sanctification, therefore they're provisional. But my problem

406
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is sanctification itself needs to be listed as a permanent thing.

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Because we are permanently sanctified in Christ. We are set

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apart in our position. So right there, already I have

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a problem there. I will agree that if you look

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at that list of the ten, the permanent gifts are

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foundational to salvation. They are related to justification. I will

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agree that the ten listed, But I believe those other things.

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That doesn't mean that they don't have a permanent aspect

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as well. Many would argue that the provisional gifts align

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with progressive sanctification, which does change over time. Well, I

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do agree that when you look at the practical aspect

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of sanctification. Now, remember there's the positional aspect of sanctification,

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which is permanent and fixed, but the practical side of sanctification,

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it does fluctuate, It changes up down. I do agree

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with that. Some would argue that what the article is

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trying to clarify, it's trying to clarify why some aspects

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of the Christian life feel secure and others seem to fluctuate.

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That if you look at a Christian's life, there's some

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things that seem to be there's a security, there's a

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you should find security, you should be able to hold

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on to it because these things are permanent. But there's

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other things in the Christian life that does fluctuate. So

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is this an attempt to try to say, well, these

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things are secure, they don't fluction Wait, you never have

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to worry about them. You can cling to that, you

431
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.400
can find peace security in it because it's permanent. But

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these things this explains the fluctuation in the Christian life

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I just don't know if those seven things. Maybe they

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do to some level. What we'll have to find out

435
00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:20.680
well as we work through it, all right, See, the

436
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permanent category reinforces eternal security. A believer's justification is fixed

437
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:29.920
and not dependent on emotion or circumstance. I do agree

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with that justification is permanent, it is fixed. It's based

439
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:35.680
off what Christ did, not what I do. I completely

440
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:42.359
agree with that. I think that makes sense. I think

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this should be an encouragement for those struggling with doubt.

442
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When when you go through those seventeen things and you

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see the permanent nature of salvation, and you understand the

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permanent nature of those in that category, it should give

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you some sense of security, remove worry and anxiety. I

446
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think that's true. I think that's true. I think it

447
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is an encouragement. I think it acknowledges Some would argue

448
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that these categories acknowledges the experience of Christian growth. You see,

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the provisional category rightly captures that believers don't always feel faith. Well,

450
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.720
we don't always feel it, all right, we don't always

451
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:29.559
feel peace, that's true. We don't always feel grace in

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the same measure. So this would argue that this is

453
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trying to fit the reality that believers experience in life.

454
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I think that now there is some truth. I don't

455
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always feel faith, I may not always feel peace, I

456
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may not always feel grace. But my feelings does not

457
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:53.640
determine if something is permanent or provisional, right, I mean,

458
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.599
the whole point of something being permanent is these things

459
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:00.839
are permanent. I may not feel justified, I may not

460
00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:06.680
feel you know, I may not feel sanctified, but from

461
00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:12.039
a positional standpoint, from a permanent standpoint, these things are permanent,

462
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:14.839
whether I feel it or not. To me, just because

463
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.960
we may feel some of these things as fluctuating, that

464
00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:21.319
doesn't necessarily place them in a provisional category, because you

465
00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:23.240
could take anything on the list and say, well, I

466
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:27.960
don't necessarily feel this, I don't necessarily experience this. Well

467
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:32.240
you know, yeah, I don't think feelings have anything to

468
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:33.960
do with this. I think the whole point of something

469
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:36.440
being permanent is then you have to learn to see

470
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:44.839
the permanence of something irregardless of your feelings. Sorry, yeah

471
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:49.680
I'm not I'm not a fan of that all right. Now,

472
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:54.200
what is some possible problems with these categories? Those are

473
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:57.599
some possible you know, positives and trying to understand why

474
00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:00.240
you would break them into these categories. But what are

475
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:04.480
some of the problems and weaknesses of these categories? Well,

476
00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:09.400
the division may be too rigid. Some of the provisional

477
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:16.559
gifts have permanent aspect. Okay, thank you that I completely

478
00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:20.319
agree with that, right, And I had AI analyze the

479
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:24.039
article for the possible philological problems and weaknesses, and the

480
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:26.920
first one AI pointed out was that, well, some of

481
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:29.839
these divisions may be too rigid because some of the

482
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:33.480
provisional gifts out of those seven, some of those have

483
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:35.880
a permanent aspect, and you would have to acknowledge that

484
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:39.920
these are the ones Ai says have a permanent aspect Faith.

485
00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:44.039
While faith may grow, the initial gift of saving faith

486
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:49.640
is permanent. See when we are granted faith for salvation,

487
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:57.000
that's permanent. It's never going away. Sanctification. AI says it

488
00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:03.079
is both positional, permanent in Christ and progressive growing over time. Okay,

489
00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:07.799
AI is saying the same thing that I had already said. Faith,

490
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:09.960
there is a permanent aspect of that. You can't just

491
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:13.559
say it's provisional. It's a permanent aspect. You can't definitely

492
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:17.759
can't say sanctification is provisional because it's definitely a permanent

493
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:22.839
aspect of it. That's why I get tired when people say, well,

494
00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:25.000
how do you know if you're justified? Will you look

495
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:29.759
at your sanctification. No, I'm already permanently sanctified in Christ.

496
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.400
So my practical sanctification does not prove my justification. It

497
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:38.400
does not even prove a lack of sanctification, because in Christ,

498
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:42.880
I'm perfectly justified, have perfectly sanctified. No, it doesn't matter

499
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:46.599
what I do or don't do, because I'm that by faith.

500
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:49.880
And you say, well, if you truly believe, you'll do this. No,

501
00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:52.480
I may truly believe and still not do the right

502
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.519
thing because I'm still a sinner. But it doesn't mean

503
00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:58.240
I'm not sanctified. Doesn't mean I'm not justified because I'm

504
00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:01.559
justified by faith, by fe faith, I'm justified by faith.

505
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:06.839
I'm sanctified in Christ. Those are permanent. Now we can

506
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:09.639
get to the practical aspect, so you can't say faith.

507
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:14.440
You can't say sanctification is provisional. Grace and mercy, while

508
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:18.039
they are experienced daily, they also permanently given through salvation

509
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:22.360
and salvation. We have been We've been given grace and mercy.

510
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:24.800
Those are permanent. God never takes away is grace or

511
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:27.960
mercy from us because we are in Christ, Jesus and Christ,

512
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:35.159
we have grace and mercy. So just those right there, faith, sanctification,

513
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:38.760
grace and mercy. That makes it almost impossible to draw

514
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:41.760
a clear line between what is permanent and what is provisional.

515
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:44.760
I will say it is impossible to say these are

516
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:47.400
permanent and these are provisional. I don't know why the

517
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:51.000
article with this direction, like I said, this categorize these,

518
00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:54.199
deplacing these in these categories was the most like, where

519
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:56.480
did this even come from? How did you even come

520
00:34:56.599 --> 00:35:04.679
up with this idea? AI pointed out. So not only

521
00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:06.960
is there you know that these divisions are way too

522
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:09.199
rigid and they don't take into account that some of

523
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:13.239
these so called provisional things do have a permanent aspect,

524
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:19.719
AI it has. It has the potential for oversimplification of

525
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:25.639
Christian struggles. The idea that provisional gifts are always available

526
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:32.039
when needed could be extremely misleading. Many believers struggle with assurance, faith,

527
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:35.840
and peace even when they seek them. This could lead

528
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:37.920
some to think that they're lacking faith if they don't

529
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:42.320
experience those gifts constantly. So it's the idea, Hey, these

530
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:44.840
seven things, they're there whenever you need it, and God

531
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:46.840
will just increase it as you need it. It does

532
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:48.840
not work that way, you know that. I know that.

533
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:52.280
I know Christians love to think that. You know, twenty

534
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:55.159
four to seven, we've just basically got access to all

535
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.119
the power, everything we need, and yet the reality is

536
00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:04.440
far different. Even AI stands that. AI goes on to say,

537
00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:07.679
not only that this does not account for divine sovereignty

538
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:11.400
and provision. The article presents provisional gifts as a believer

539
00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:16.239
as believer dependent rather than God distributed. Scripture often speaks

540
00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:19.320
of faith and peace is given by God in his timing.

541
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:23.360
This makes provisional gifts not just available on demand, but

542
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:28.360
gracially get given according to God's plan, God's will. We

543
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:30.840
can't just say, oh, these things are available, just get it.

544
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.639
It doesn't work that way. We're not in control of

545
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:48.400
the process. So I did have AI make me a

546
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:51.760
little chart here, all right. I did have AI make

547
00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:53.719
me a little chart here, because you know, I'm not

548
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:56.039
Gonnat making charts. But AI will make me a chart, right,

549
00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:00.360
just like that, So a I did this for a

550
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:05.159
chart critique? Is this categorization the best way to explain

551
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:06.960
these gifts? Is this the best way to break these

552
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:11.360
seventeen things down into this category? Well, the aspect permanent gifts,

553
00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:14.519
here's the strengths of these permanent gifts. This idea of

554
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.840
placing them in that category. It does reinforce eternal security

555
00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:23.360
and the unchangeable nature of salvation, the weakness. Some permanent gifts,

556
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:29.039
like faith have a progressive element. So see as soon

557
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:31.239
as you break these down, even some of these things

558
00:37:31.239 --> 00:37:34.519
that have that are permanent, there is a progressive element

559
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:38.159
to them. See, this is going to go both ways.

560
00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:42.519
When you come to provisional gifts, well, it may explain

561
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:46.360
why believers experience fluctuation and faith, peace and grace, But

562
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:49.760
the division is too rigid because some provisional gifts have

563
00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:56.800
permanent aspects. Some permanent gifts have progressive elements or provisional elements,

564
00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:02.159
and some permanent gifts have provision or some provisional gifts

565
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:06.639
have permanent aspects. So it goes both ways. Some permanent

566
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:10.840
has provisional aspects, some provisional have permanent aspects, meaning you

567
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:15.039
can't put these in these nice little categories. And why

568
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:18.599
I hate this stuff is this stuff. Pastors love this stuff.

569
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:22.719
Like they're sitting in there study one night, they come across,

570
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:28.159
oh ooh this is good. This is good. They call

571
00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:30.719
their multimedia team, Hey, I need you to make me

572
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:36.639
a you know, a PowerPoint slide of provisional and permanent gifts,

573
00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:39.360
and we're gonna break these down and then oh yeah,

574
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:41.320
and everyone there in church is gonna be like, oh,

575
00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:44.400
this is so awesome. Yeah, yeah, nobody's gonna stop and

576
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:45.880
going Wait a minute. I think this whole thing is

577
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:48.199
just fraudulent from the start. I think this whole thing

578
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:59.079
falls apart. Now philological balance recognize the distinction between justification

579
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:02.079
and sanctification by putting them in these categories, there's at

580
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:06.079
least an attempt to draw a distinction between justification and sanctification.

581
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.639
There was at least some effort to do that. However,

582
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:13.400
it doesn't fully address God's role in distributing faith, peace,

583
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:16.840
and grace. And not only that, it seems to completely

584
00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:22.239
forget that some of these have a justification aspect. They're

585
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:27.920
connected to justification as well practicality. The chart or breaking

586
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:30.480
this into these categories does encourage believers to trust in

587
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:34.800
their unchangeable salvation while seeking growth, but it could unintentionally

588
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:38.599
lead to guilt if someone struggles to access provisional gifts.

589
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:43.280
So Ai was like, hey, I can offer you a

590
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:46.400
better approach. Do you want a better approach? And I'm like, okay,

591
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:49.320
A what do you have? Right? This chart? I think

592
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:52.199
is a total mess? Are there not this chart? I'm

593
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:55.159
sorry this breaking them into these categories. If you were

594
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:56.960
to turn it into a chart, I believe it would

595
00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:59.360
be a complete mess. So but Ai said, do you

596
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:03.800
want a better aproach? Here's what Ai suggests. Instead of

597
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:10.000
dividing these into strictly permanent versus provisional, a more biblical

598
00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:18.159
model would be unchangeable aspects of salvation justification and adoption.

599
00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:27.920
These are fully accomplished and permanent. Progressive growth in salvation, sanctification,

600
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:33.480
and experience of grace. These develop over time God's ongoing

601
00:40:33.559 --> 00:40:38.000
provision faith, peace, peace, and strength. These are given by

602
00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:41.880
God and his timing and not just dependent on human effort.

603
00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:47.280
So Ai says, break it down into basically three under concepts.

604
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:50.719
The unchangeable aspects of salvation focus on all of those

605
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:54.559
things that are unchangeable and a part of salvation, like justification, adoption.

606
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:57.360
These are fully accomplished and permanent. Of course, I still

607
00:40:57.360 --> 00:40:59.480
think you need to put sanctification in there, because there's

608
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:02.280
a an element there. What I would say, what you

609
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:06.599
need to do. This is what I would say, Hey,

610
00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:10.880
I want it unchangeable aspects progressive growth, God's ongoing provision.

611
00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:13.920
What I would say is you need to break it

612
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:21.719
down positional reality, practical reality. And how do these seventeen

613
00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:25.400
things fit in with the positional reality and how do

614
00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:29.880
they fit in with the practical reality. I think that's

615
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.079
what we have to do. There is I think everything

616
00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:37.079
should be broken down from positional and practice, positional and practical.

617
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:51.280
So I think dividing these if I don't know what

618
00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:53.280
you had in your chart, I don't know wrote what

619
00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:55.800
you wrote down, But I think what you should have

620
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:57.719
came to this is what I feel should have happened.

621
00:41:57.719 --> 00:41:59.400
You should have been like, I don't think this works.

622
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:02.719
I don't know if I can make all of these provisional.

623
00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:05.800
I think, and I think some of these permanent could

624
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:08.880
have kind of a provisional aspect to it. I think

625
00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:11.360
you should have found yourself going this just doesn't work.

626
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:14.960
This kind of falls apart. That's where you should have

627
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:18.400
ended up and said, I don't know if I like this, Now,

628
00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:23.280
what do we need to do? Well, the first thing

629
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:25.239
we need to do now, we're not going to do

630
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:27.880
it now. I think that broke it down pretty well,

631
00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:30.480
and I think hopefully helped you see the problem here.

632
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:32.719
What we need to do is we need to circle

633
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:34.920
back around, go back to Hebrews six ' nine and

634
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.639
try to decide if this verse has anything to even

635
00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:40.360
do with us what it's actually referring to, especially in

636
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.719
the context because it has something to do with Jews

637
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:44.719
and seventy a d more than it has anything to

638
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:48.840
do with you in my salvation. But then this list

639
00:42:48.960 --> 00:43:02.239
of seventeen things faith, belief, repentance, atonement, imputation, reconciliation, ransom, regeneration, justification, grace, mercy, propitiation, adoption, redemption, sanctification, peace,

640
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:04.760
and eternal life. I think we need to become an

641
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:11.719
expert and all seventeen of those things. Now we're going

642
00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:14.199
to walk into theological landmines and we're going to tick

643
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:18.440
off somebody. Right, you could also get into a whole

644
00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:21.639
order an art an argument about orders. Salutis the order

645
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:26.239
of salvation. Right, there's a whole lot of things that

646
00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:28.280
we could get into an argument about. What I think

647
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:29.920
we're going to do is just go through and try

648
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:33.679
to get a better understanding of these concepts, how they

649
00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:35.719
and we're going to What we're going to do is

650
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:38.840
understand these concepts, how they relate. We're not going to

651
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:42.920
put them in categories. How though you have faith, how

652
00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:47.559
does faith relate to our position, our salvation, and how

653
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:51.840
does faith work and relate to our practical daily experience

654
00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:57.960
and daily living. There's a there's a positional aspect of faith.

655
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:01.440
God grants me faith, and I am permanently saved, and

656
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:05.559
that faith is a permanent gift. I will always have

657
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:08.079
that faith. Now, you could go, I'm going back to

658
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:11.920
the permanent idea, But there's I'm positionally saved by faith,

659
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.920
and the faith that I'm saved by was given to

660
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:18.039
me by God. And that faith never changes, never fluctuates,

661
00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:21.960
never increases, decreases, It stays the same now. But at

662
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:25.000
the same time, there's a practical outworking of that faith

663
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:28.840
where me as an individual, right, there's going to be

664
00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:32.039
aspects of faith where I'm struggling and I'm doubting, but

665
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:36.760
my faith in Christ should be somewhat unwavery my faith

666
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:41.119
about a lot of things may waver. That's the practical aspect. See,

667
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:43.880
trying to draw that division can be very difficult, but

668
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:47.239
you can see how. I don't know how they separate

669
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.280
faith and belief. I'm gonna as what is the distinction?

670
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:52.480
What is the difference between faith and belief? I just

671
00:44:52.480 --> 00:45:00.360
need to answer that question at some point. But repentance, Okay,

672
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:03.320
we got to define what repentance is. And then again

673
00:45:03.400 --> 00:45:07.239
I think there's the salvific part of repentance, and then

674
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:12.760
there's the practical repentance. All right, so we could go

675
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:18.480
through all of those. That's what we will do. That's

676
00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:21.000
what we will do, and we'll just make each episode.

677
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:25.960
We'll title it faith maybe faith part one, Faith part two,

678
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:29.360
Faith part three, Faith part four, Believe part one, part two,

679
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:31.559
and we'll just go through all of them. It can't hurt.

680
00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:35.400
But we'll have to first work on Hebrews six 's nine.

681
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:42.440
All right, there we go. Now, nobody else at all

682
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:44.760
may be interested in all of that, may not even care.

683
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:50.079
But this is what happens. I get one issued sort

684
00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:53.000
of Lord newspaper in fifteen hours later I'm still working

685
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:55.199
on one article. That's what I could do with every

686
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:58.760
article in here, Like it's dangerous to give me a paper,

687
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:01.960
a magazine, a book, because I literally I could just

688
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:05.039
go hour after hour after hour talking about it. But

689
00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:10.039
there we go. Their division of permanent and provisional is

690
00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:16.039
permanently broken. Get what I did there, It's not provisionally broken,

691
00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:19.719
it's permanently broken. It doesn't work because they create a

692
00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:21.679
list where some of these things have a permanent aspect

693
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:24.400
and a provisional aspect. And I think that fits more

694
00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:29.639
with the idea that in our Christianity everything relates to

695
00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:35.880
our position and our practice. Everything to some level has

696
00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:43.400
some correlation between the two, at least I think, so

697
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:45.920
I could even make maybe even make an argument. I

698
00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:48.920
think anytime we create these categories, there's times things can

699
00:46:48.920 --> 00:46:51.159
fall apart a little bit. So that's why we've got

700
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:54.679
to be careful about creating categories sometimes. But I think

701
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:59.719
positional and practical definitely far makes more sense than permanent

702
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:06.280
and visional. I think you could go permanent, which ones

703
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:09.400
are just permanent alone or any of them just permanent alon?

704
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:13.519
And which ones are both maybe permanent and both permanent

705
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:15.840
and provisional. I don't maybe you could do that, I

706
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:25.239
don't know. All right, there you go, So next time

707
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:28.679
Hebrew six 's nine. After that we'll start working on faith.

708
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:33.719
Thanks for listening, God bless