Oct. 25, 2024

Isaiah 43: Blame John Bunyan

Isaiah 43: Blame John Bunyan

Is John Bunyan to blame for spiritualizing Isaiah 43?

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Is John Bunyan to blame for spiritualizing Isaiah 43?

WEBVTT

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central. Okay, remember the

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last few broadcasts I said that what was needed before

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you could listen is you needed a stopwatch. You needed

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a timer, right, and then we timed how long it

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took before pastors inserted us into Isaiah forty three. Well,

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today you can just throw away your timer. You can

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throw away your stopwatch. What you need and you need

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to start building it really quick. You need a time machine. Yes,

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you need to build a time machine right now, because

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we need to go all the way back to the

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year sixteen seventy eight, sixteen seventy eight, and we've got

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to go to Bedford Jail. There's a prisoner there in

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sixteen seventy eight and he's beginning to write a book,

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and we need to break into the jail. No, we

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don't need to break out. We need to break into

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the jail and we need to knock the book and

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take the pap We need to take the paper the

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pencil away from the prisoner who was in Bedford jail

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in sixteen seventy eight. And we're like, no, you're not

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writing this book because you're going to cause all kinds

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of problems. And one of the things you're gonna do

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is mess up Isaiah forty No, give me the paper.

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Get give me the paper. You stay in prison, you

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stay here, you're not writing anything. And then let's take

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the paper and let's go burn it. What is everybody

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with me? All right? Our mission? Build a time machine.

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Go to Bedford Jail sixteen seventy eight. Break in when

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you see the person writing a book, take the paper,

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and then leave. Burn the paper, and then get back

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in your time machine and come back to twenty twenty four.

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All right, that's your mission, right, I don't care if

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you choose to accept it. It's your mission. Start building

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right now. Build the time machine, get it done, Get

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to sixteen seventy eight, stop him from writing the book.

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Well is that a pretty good opening? Do I have

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your attention? Well? I hope. So welcome everyone. It is Friday,

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October the twenty fifth, twenty twenty four. It is currently

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one nineteen pm Central time, and I am coming to

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you live from the Theology Central Studio located right here

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in Abilene, Texas. Now, Isaiah forty three has really become

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a focal point and a lot of broadcast recently, right,

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Isaiah forty three, Isaiah forty three, Isaiah forty three. And

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what we have discovered is, for some weird reason, pastors

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who say they're going to preach on Isaiah forty three,

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that's the text for their sermon, it only takes them

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a very short amount of time in some cases less

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than forty seconds in some cases, well even in their title,

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so zero seconds to take Isaiah forty three and insert

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us into the text, which has gotten us, which has

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led to discussions about Bible interpretation, hermeneutics, interpretive methods, hermeneutical principles.

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And I hope all of that has been beneficial. It

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has caused me to do a lot of work. So

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what I think I'm going to do, I don't know.

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If I'm going to do it for the podcast. I

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don't know if I'm going to do it at church.

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I know in church I need to get back. I mean, well,

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unless something is just completely messed up, Sunday is going

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to be Romans chapter four. It was supposed to be

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Romans Chapter four this past Sunday, which it didn't be. Well,

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there's a lot of reasons for that, but hopefully this Sunday,

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it'll be Romans four, and I know we need to

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continue working on the Dividic Covenant for the first hour,

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but at some point meant maybe here on the podcast,

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I don't know where we're going to. We are going

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to just do I think an extensive amount of work

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and study on Isaiah chapter forty to Isaiah chapter fifty five,

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forty to fifty five. Now, obviously in that section is

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Isaiah forty three, but I think we're gonna just go

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back and look at the entire section, because this is

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sometimes referred to as the Book of Comfort or the

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Comfort section of Isaiah. And obviously if we are inserted

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in Isaiah forty three, if we're just inserted there, well

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then it almost not only does that frustrate me, and

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it's easy for me to turn on a microphone and

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just find sermon after sermon after sermon after sermon after

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sermon that just absolutely does weird things to Isaiah forty three. Obviously,

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there is no end of material. I could turn this

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into the Isaiah forty three podcast and just play wacky

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sermons on Isaiah forty three and never run out of material,

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it seems, but I don't like whenever my reviews become critical,

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I always feel bad, right because the reviews are never

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really meant to be negative. They're meant to be Hey,

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this is their their interpretation, here's my interpretation. But sometimes

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things just go so just weird. Like sometimes I'm like,

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I don't even know, I don't even know what world

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they're coming from. It's so bizarre. But I can just

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criticize it, but you know, I don't like to. So

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what I like to do is like, Okay, instead of criticizing,

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let's build this into something. Right, we did this was

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it p ssaw eighty three? We did that so many times,

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Like it starts with a criticism and then it turns

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into a full blown study so that no one can

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accuse me of just all you do is criticize, no

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whatever I may disagree with, then I go do the

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work on So I think we need to do an

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extensive and maybe turn it into a series on Isaiah

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forty to fifty five. I know it could be very

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difficult and tedious. Maybe not trying, I don't know. Maybe

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we break it into sections. I don't know. I just

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feel like there's some hermeneutics go crazy here. So that's

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what I'm thinking about doing. But for this episode, I'm

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still trying to figure out why in twenty twenty four,

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Why over the last twenty or thirty years, it seems

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I mean, I don't know for how long it's been

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going on, but if you listen to modern sermons and

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I'll just say sermons from the last you know, say,

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twenty to thirty years, it seems that it's just you

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go to Isaiah forty three and boom it just make

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it about us, just forget who it's about, make it

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about us, and it's like, how did we get here?

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Now?

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I cannot demonstrate historically that this is the starting point,

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but I think what happened in a prison cell in

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sixteen seventy eight definitely needs to be discussed and light

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of what people not only do with Isaiah, but what

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they do with a lot of Old Testament passages. Are

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you ready? Now here's what happened. I was sitting here going,

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you know, what what should I do? What should I do?

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What should I do? I need to get to the

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fourth secret of the sixth Secrets of the Christian Life.

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But there's a part of me that says, there's no

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real reason going into it because we've already kind of

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exhausted that topic. I've not heard a lot of emails.

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But then there's another part of me like, you started it,

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You've got to bring it to a conclusion. So I

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know I need to do that. But I'm like, ah, well,

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you know what, let me just do a search for

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Isaiah forty three. So I did a search for Isaiah

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forty three, and the very first thing that popped up

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today was River of Death. I'm like, whoa, what a title?

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River of Death? And then I'm like, wait, wait, wait,

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river of Death. Wait this is Isaiah forty three. And

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I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, so reaching down.

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If you have your Bible, I know you're building a

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time machine right now. But Isaiah forty three, I remember,

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Oh wait, Isaiah forty three, verse two, when thou passest

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through the waters, I will be with thee and through

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the rivers they shall not overflow thee. Oh is this

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the river of death? So is this?

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Uh?

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Oh, what's happening here? And then I noticed river of

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Death and then I'm like, oh, no, you gotta be

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kidding me. I know I know this name, I know

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what this is referencing. And then I'm like, oh, boy,

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I wonder if this explains how we get to the

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spiritualizing and allegorizing of this text. So I hit play

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and I'm like, oh, here we go. So I'm going

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to play what I heard. It's only five minutes and

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twelve seconds long. It's only five minutes and twelve seconds long.

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Trying to interrupt this is going to be somewhat difficult,

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but I have to somewhat interrupt it to try to

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offer analysis and critique, or it's not fair use. I

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don't know if it's copyrighted. I'm assuming the book is

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in the public domain, but the recording of it probably

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isn't in public domain. So for fair use, I have

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to offer analysis critique. It has to be trends formative

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or then I don't want to violate any form of copyright.

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So I will be interrupting this, even though it's going

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to be awkward to interrupt it, but I need to

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do that to just make sure I'm doing everything, you know,

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accurately and fairly and not you know, I don't want

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to be breaking any rules. So but as soon as

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you hear this, you're going to be like, oh, I

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know what this is right, I know what this. You're

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going to know immediately what this is. All right, So

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are you ready? So we're going to listen to this again.

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And what we're about to hear is like an audio

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dramatized version of what was written in that prison cell

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in sixteen seventy eight. And I think what was written

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in that prison cell in sixteen seventy eight has had

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a massive impact on how Christians handle passages of scripture,

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and especially how preachers do so because what was written

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in that prison cell in sixteen seventy eight by many

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Christians is treated as one of the greatest works in

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the history of Christian And everyone saw, you need to

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read this, you need to read this, you need to

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read this. Well, what has it got to do with

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Isaiah forty three? Are you ready? Here we go. It's

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all going to make sense. Here we go.

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Now. I further saw that betwixt them and the gate

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was a river, but there was no bridge to go over.

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The river was very deep at the site. Therefore of

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this river, the pilgrims were much stunned. But the men

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that went in with them said, you must go through,

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or you cannot come. At the gate Pilgrims then began

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to inquire if there was no other way to the gate,

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to which they answered yes, but.

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There have not any say two to with Enoch and

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Elijah then permitted to tread that path since the foundation

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of the world, nor shall until the last trumpet shall sound.

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All right, So obviously you're getting the idea what this is, right.

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This is the dramatized version of one section of Pilgrim's Progress,

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the famous book by John Bunyan. Right, everyone know Pilgrim's Progress,

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right everyone? I mean, I am most of my Christian life.

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You've got to read Pilgrim's Progress. You've got to read

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Pilgrim's Progress outside of the Bible. It's one of the

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greatest things ever written. It will revolutionize your devotional life.

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It will make the Bible come alive. It's amazing. It's amazing.

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It's this Christian allegory. You have to read it. You

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have to read it. It's great, and you're never, never, never,

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never to criticize it. If you criticize it anathema, I mean, yeah,

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it's like it. Basically, if you criticize Pilgrim's Progress, or

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if you criticize Lord of the Rings, you basically are

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an atheist. Okay, you're not allowed to criticize it, but

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you'll notice how this story sets up. There's a river

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and they're like, wait, is there any other way? Well,

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the only other way to go around it basically is

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to die. Then you'll get to the gate, you'll get

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to heaven. But if you want to get to heaven, now,

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well you have to go across the river. You have

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to go through the river. Well, most believe that what

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John Bunyan was doing here. In fact, it is basically

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understood that the pilgrim's progress, the scene known as the

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River of Death is interpreting as being drawn from Isaiah

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chapter forty three, particularly verse two. So he built a

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part of this allegory on Isaiah forty three too. Oh boy,

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so you can immediately see that in sixteen seventy eight,

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the allegorizing the spiritualizing of Isaiah forty three to two

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was about to go well, not at that very moment,

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but it was not going to take a wall that

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it was about to become mainstream, we could say epic.

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It was going to become legendary, it was going to

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become all Christians must read this well, talk about the

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influence and the impact not only of the book, but

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ofvon John Bunyan's approach to scripture, which has influenced preachers

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all the way to this day. So I'm going to

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back this up again. Just note the pilgrims. Those are

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the Christians. They're trying to get to the gate. They're

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trying to get to the heavenly City. They're trying to

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get to heaven. And they see a river and it

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doesn't look good, and like, well, is there any other

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way around? Well, if you die, basically you can make it.

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But until then you got to go through. You got

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to go through it. You've got to go through it.

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Let's see, let's back this up, and well we'll talk

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about this entire section and what John Bunyan is doing.

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Are you ready? Here we go.

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Now. I further saw that betwixt them and the gate

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was a river, but there was no bridge to go over.

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The river was very deep at the site Therefore of

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this river, the pilgrims were much stunned. But the men

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that went in with them said, you must go through

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or you cannot come at The eight pilgrims then began

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to inquire if there was no other way to the gate,

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to which they answered.

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Yes, but there have not any say two to with

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Enoch and Elijah then permitted to tread that path since

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the foundation of the world, nor shall until the last

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trumpet shall sound the pilgrims.

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Then, okay, let me stop there, because I did I misspoke,

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all right, Innoch and Elijah. The idea is I said, well,

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you have to go across this river unless you die. Okay,

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I take that back the way this is being explained,

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and I apologize that I completely mess this up, and

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now I feel now I want to kick myself, but

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that's okay. The point was, now you have to go

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through this river unless you're just taken to heaven like

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Enoch and Elisha. Unless you're just taken to heaven, unless

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you're just taken to heaven, you're going to have to

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go through the river, meaning the river then represents death.

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The only way to get there is unless Christ comes back,

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or Christ or God just you're walking with God and

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he just takes you to heaven without death. You have

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to go through the river, meaning the river represents death. Okay,

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that's why it's called the river of death, right right, Okay,

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I don't know why I was messing up the allegory

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so much and messing it all up. So, no, you

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have to go through Is there any other way? No,

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you have to go through it unless you're taken to heaven. Right,

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and then the examples that were given, you have to

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go through it. So the river represents death? All right? There?

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Does that make sense? All right? So now I'll play

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this again, we'll put it all back together. I do

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apologize for that because I'm was like, no, you have

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to go through this river unless you die. That that

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makes no sense. Okay, Hello, Okay, I'm completely messing up

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the metaphor. I'm completely messing up the allegory all right.

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Now.

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Of course, again, if it's an allegory and it's spiritualizing,

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I mean I can make it say whatever I want. Okay,

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So in some ways I can use my mess up

283
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as well. Why what I can make it? I can

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say anything I want? Right So, But obviously then Isaiah

285
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forty three two, if it's being utilized, then the river

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here represents dying and you have to go through the river.

287
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You have to die. But what is going to happen

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when you pass through the water death? I will be

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with thee and through the rivers they shall not overflow thee.

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You have to go through death, but God will be

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with us and we will not be consumed by it,

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because death is just a transition into eternal life. All right,

293
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that is the way it's being utilized. Okay, So I

294
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apologize that I messed it up, but again you can

295
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just start making it. Say whatever you want, obviously, but

296
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let's play this again and then you'll hear all right,

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here we go.

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Now. I further saw that betwixt them and the gate

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was a river, but there was no bridge to go over.

300
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The river was very deep at the site Therefore of

301
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this river, the pilgrims were much stunned, But the men

302
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that in with him said, you must go through, or

303
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you cannot come at the gates. Pilgrims then began to

304
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inquire if there was no other way to the gates,

305
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to which they answered, yes.

306
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But there have not any say two to with Enoch

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and Elijah. Then permitted to tread that path. Since the

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foundation of the world.

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See only Enoch and Elijah, I think, I said, Elishah.

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But Innoch and Elijah, those are the only two. Unless

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God takes you up right you're walking with God, you

312
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were no more because God just took you, or you're

313
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in a you know, God takes you at a flaming chariot,

314
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like unless he just does some miraculous way to bring

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you to heaven or some may refer to the rapture

316
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or what however, you're depending on your eschatology. Unless he

317
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just comes back and takes us. We have to go

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through the river. The river represents death. So what Isaiah

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forty three to two if he's borrowing from there, which

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most everyone believes that he is. In fact, even the

321
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message on some two point oh app for the text

322
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has Isaiah forty three to two, then that's being represented that, Hey,

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when thou passes through the waters meaning death, I will

324
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be with THEE and through the rivers rivers meaning death,

325
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they shall not overflow thee. So they are interpreting this

326
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that the rivers represent death, and so we have to

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go through death to ultimately get to heaven. But when

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we go through death, we're not alone. We're not going

329
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to be consumed by it. God will be with us,

330
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we will not be We will not be overflown or

331
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overcome by it. All right, sounds good, right, sounds wonderful.

332
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And you say that, and you preach it that way,

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people will be like, Oh, that's so comforting, that's so beautiful.

334
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But is Isaiah forty three too having Is is it

335
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even anywhere close to saying that is that shouldn't even

336
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be utilized for this in any way, shape or form.

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See this is where now the Bible you can just

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go and go, well, I think this pictures this, or

339
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I think this pictures this, And then this is where

340
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we turn into all of the problem. They see what

341
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else Bunyan John Bunyan did.

342
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Here, nor shall until the last trumpet shall sound.

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The pilgrims, then, especially Christian, began to despond in their

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minds and look this way and that that no way

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could be found by them by which they might escape

346
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the river. Then they asked the men if the waters

347
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were all of a death. They said no, yet they

348
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could not help them in that case. Or you shall

349
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find it deeper or shallower as you believe in the

350
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King of the place. Then they had rested themselves to

351
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the water, entering, Christian began to sink and, crying out

352
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to his good friend Hopeful, said, I think I think.

353
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Over my head, good cheer my God, I the bottom,

354
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and it is good I shall not see the land

355
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of clothing and honey.

356
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With that, a great darkness and horror fell upon Christian,

357
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so that he could.

358
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Not see before him.

359
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Also here he in great measure lost his senses, so

360
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that he could neither remember nor orderly talk of any

361
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of those sweet refreshments that he had met with in

362
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the way of his privilege. All the words that he

363
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spake still tended to discover that he had a horror

364
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of mind and heart, fears that he should die in

365
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the river, and never obtained infancy into the gates. Here, also,

366
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as they had stood by, perceived he was much in

367
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troublesome thoughts of sins that he had committed, both since

368
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and before he began to be afforded. He's also observed

369
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that he was troubled with abolition to com doctum and

370
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evil spirits for ever and anon he would be to

371
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make so much by words hope. They therefore here had

372
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much ado to keep his brother's head above water yeat.

373
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Sometimes he would be quite calmed down. Then ere a

374
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while he would rise up again, half dead, hopeful, also

375
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would endeavor to comforting, saying, brother, I.

376
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See the gate and then standing by to receive us.

377
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Didn't you you they wait or early? You've been all

378
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clever since I knew and and so have you.

379
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Ah brother, surly, surely if he was right, you would

380
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now arrive to help me.

381
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But for my.

382
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:08.920
Kids did dropped me into the scenario and has left me.

383
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My brother, you quite forgot the text where it is

384
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said of the wicked, there are no fans in their death,

385
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but their strends is spurred. They are not in trouble

386
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as other men. Neither are they plagued like other Again,

387
00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:31.079
how these troubles they're distressed, that can folk through these

388
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waters are no sign that God has mistaken you, but

389
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are said to try you. Whether you have called to

390
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mind that was here before, you have received of his

391
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goodness and live upon me of an your distress.

392
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Then I saw in my dream that Christian was as

393
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in amusable. I'm also hopeful, added Discord.

394
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Be a be share Jesus Christ, they get me all.

395
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As you have. Christian breakout a mild voice.

396
00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.640
I see him again, and he tells me when they'll,

397
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I will be with you.

398
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:19.640
They shall not overflow here.

399
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Then they both took her out, and the enemy was

400
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:26.359
after that as still as a stone until they were

401
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:31.240
gone over. Christian therefore presently found ground to stand upon it.

402
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:34.440
So it follows that the rest of the river was

403
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.559
but shallow. Thus they got over you.

404
00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:46.680
Hear the quote literal quote from Isaiah forty three too,

405
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:48.680
when you pass through the waters, I will be with you,

406
00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:51.680
and though the rivers they shall not overwhelm you or

407
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:54.599
overflow you, depending on the tech I'm depending on the translation.

408
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:59.200
So clearly there now and aroundabout way, if you kind

409
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.160
of listen to the metaphor and listen to the allegory,

410
00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:05.599
even there may be a little inconsistent because it was like, hey,

411
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:07.480
how do we get around this? Well, the only way

412
00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:10.519
you're going to get around this is if you don't die. Right,

413
00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:13.759
if you are inoch or Elijah and you're taken to

414
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:16.119
Heaven or the Last Trump and you're just taking you

415
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.200
have to go through the river. So it's called the

416
00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:20.279
river of death. So many would be like, well, no,

417
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:23.279
this represents death, so you have to die. But when

418
00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:25.759
you die, well, God is going to be with you

419
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.319
and you're not going to be overwhelmed by death because

420
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:31.279
death is just a transition. You walk through the shadow

421
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.559
of the valley of the shadow of death and you

422
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:36.440
just pass right through. But then it kind of transitioned

423
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:40.319
into not really being death. It's trials, and it's difficulty,

424
00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:44.240
and it's shame and it's guilt. But at all of

425
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:46.079
this he's going to be with you through it. So

426
00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:49.440
now it's not really death, it's really trials. And so

427
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:51.799
is it death or is it this? What does it

428
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:57.000
actually represent? But it's all an allegory. No, you want

429
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:59.519
to ride an allegory, great, but see when you start

430
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:03.039
using scripture, then it would becomes the problem because Isaiah

431
00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:06.279
forty three to two has nothing to do with this

432
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:09.680
allegory and he literally quoted it. So you need to

433
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:12.200
get back to sixteen seventy eight, knock the pencil out

434
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:14.359
of his hand, and say put the pencil down, because

435
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:17.400
you're about to influence how Christians interpret Isaiah forty three

436
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.680
to two for years and years and years and years

437
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:21.720
to come. So you're ready to do a little bit

438
00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:24.359
of work on this, And I do apologize that that.

439
00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:26.079
I was like, no, you have to die to get

440
00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:29.400
away from the No, you have to not die to

441
00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:33.079
escape the river, because the river seems to be representing death.

442
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:35.519
But well, it could also represent I guess, I guess.

443
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:37.839
It could represent whatever you want it to represent. Right,

444
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:42.880
So here's a little bit of discussion on this text.

445
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:47.000
In the allegory, Christian and Hopeful must cross the river

446
00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:52.200
of death to reach the celestial city, symbolizing heaven. Banyan

447
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.240
Uzia uses the crossing to represent the final journey through

448
00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.359
death that believers must take. For Christian, the water are

449
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:04.000
turbulent and frightening, symbolizing the fear and struggle that can

450
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:09.400
accompany death. However, or Hopefully Hopeful I'm sorry, however, crosses

451
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.799
more peacefully, showing the assurance some believers feel and their

452
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:16.359
final moments. So it seems that many do understand the

453
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:20.559
river to be death represents. It doesn't represent trials and tribulations.

454
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:24.519
It represents actual death. We have to go through the.

455
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:26.839
Death.

456
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:28.880
We have to go through death, whatever however you want

457
00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:31.319
to describe it. And so that's what is going through.

458
00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:34.400
Some are going to be fearful and afraid. Others may

459
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:36.880
be more peaceful, but everyone has to go through it

460
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:41.839
unless your inoch Elijah or Christ returns. Right, So you

461
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:44.920
can't turn it into trials and tribulations. No, it's death.

462
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.359
That's what it represents, or at least that's how most

463
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:56.839
understand it. Bunyan does indeed allegorize the promises and Isaiah

464
00:26:57.079 --> 00:27:03.200
forty three two. In the original context, Isaiah forty three

465
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:08.440
speaks of God's presence with Israel through their trials, specifically

466
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:12.519
as he promises to bring them through the Babylonian exile

467
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:17.839
and return them to their land. For Israel, the promise

468
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.480
that they will not be overwhelmed by the water or

469
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:24.200
fire was a literal assurance of God's protection through their

470
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:28.119
national hardships. God is saying, I am not going to

471
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:31.039
let you be overwhelmed. I'm not going to let you

472
00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:34.599
be destroyed. I will keep be with you and preserve

473
00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:37.880
you through this. But it was literal promises to a

474
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:42.200
literal nation and a literal historical context. Bunyan, I don't

475
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.480
care how spiritual you may think he is. I don't

476
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:47.240
care how wonderful you think the pilgrim's progress may be.

477
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:51.720
He had no right zero to take Isaiah forty three

478
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:55.519
to two and turn it into some allegory. That's the problem.

479
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:58.720
Now they'll look. There is plenty of times in my

480
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:02.839
Christian life where only recommended Pilgrim's Progress because I thought, well,

481
00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:04.960
it's just an allegory. We can read it as an

482
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:07.799
allegory and we can have a discussion about the Christian life.

483
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:13.720
But now since I've seen how much people take this

484
00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:18.880
allegorizing concept and bring it to the scriptures, that's where

485
00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:21.480
I have a problem. If he would have just left

486
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:25.079
scripture out of it, Okay, then okay, hey, I'm gonna

487
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.480
tell you this story, and I think this represents this,

488
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:31.359
This represents this, this represents this. But I'm gonna leave

489
00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.480
scripture alone because scripture was not written for me to

490
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:38.160
turn it into spiritualizing and allegorizing, because it was written

491
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.720
to be interpreted by the way it was intended to

492
00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:44.680
be interpreted. That's where my problem is. Younger, I did

493
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.000
not catch on to the hermoneutical implications.

494
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:47.559
We'll see.

495
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:49.119
When I was younger, I'm just like, oh, here's this

496
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:52.680
famous book. It's an allegory. Okay, I like to interpret things.

497
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.079
This is fun, this is great. I didn't understand the

498
00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.880
hermeneutical implications. Now I'm much more bothered it because of

499
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:05.160
the hermeneutical implications. So what is Isaiah forty three two

500
00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:09.039
about its promises? To literal Israel and their little historical setting,

501
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:12.680
which is Babylonian exile, Babylonian captivity, and God promises that

502
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:14.519
He will not leave them and they will not be

503
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:21.640
overwhelmed and destroyed through this very difficult time. Bunyan, however,

504
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:25.920
reinterprets these promises as an allegory for the Christian's journey

505
00:29:25.960 --> 00:29:28.960
through death. He takes the imagery of passing through waters

506
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:32.039
and applies it to spiritual experience of death, suggesting that

507
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:36.039
God's presence will protect the believer through life's final trial. Thus,

508
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:41.079
he fully allegorizes Isaiah forty three, adapting it to communicate

509
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:45.400
the hope of eternal life rather than Israel's historical deliverance. So, now,

510
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.519
what did Bunyan do in sixteen seventy eight? He kicked

511
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:51.720
Israel out of the text, and he inserted you and

512
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:54.720
I into the text. He was doing it in sixteen

513
00:29:54.799 --> 00:30:03.240
seventy eight, and it hasn't stopped since. Bunyans application. I

514
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:05.240
don't even like to refer to it as an application.

515
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:09.720
Bunyan's complete allegorizing, a spiritualizing, That's how I would word it.

516
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:12.279
Of Isaiah forty three in the River of Death, scene

517
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:16.640
is a spiritualized adaptation. It meant to encourage readers by

518
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:19.640
illustrating how just as God promised to be with Israel

519
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:22.720
in their trials, so He is with believers as they

520
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:28.599
face death. It reflects Bunyan Bunyan's Puritan theology, which often

521
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:32.000
look to the Old Testament for spiritual application to the

522
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:35.960
Christian life and final perseverance. Well, I don't care if

523
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.279
the I don't care if it comes from his Puritan theology.

524
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:41.160
I don't care where it came from. I could care less.

525
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:45.799
The issue is how do you handle Isaiah forty three?

526
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:46.839
Now.

527
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.000
I know people are going to like I found such

528
00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:52.640
great spiritual comfort in that. It's a beautiful picture. I

529
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:56.160
love it. It's made my Christian life so much better. Look,

530
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:57.880
I don't care if it's made your life better. I

531
00:30:57.880 --> 00:30:59.720
don't care if it's brought you comfort. I don't care

532
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:01.960
if it's brought you peace. I don't care how well

533
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.440
meaning all the people who've handled the text this way are.

534
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:10.720
It's not what the text is about. It's not it

535
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:15.160
was meant to bring Israel comfort, not you. It's not you.

536
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:17.839
Now you wait now if you want to again, there

537
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:21.279
are there some applications. We've tried to draw some applications,

538
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.160
but you've got to be very careful how you draw

539
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:26.400
these applications. You can't just go in and spiritualize and

540
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:33.160
allegorize the text. Bunyan does fully allegorize Isaiah forty three

541
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:36.119
and the River of Death scene, transforming Israel's literal assurance

542
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:39.599
of protection into a spiritual metaphor for the believer's passage

543
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:44.000
through death into eternal life. This creative adaptation provided readers

544
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:46.799
with a vivid, hope filled picture of God's presence with

545
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:51.599
them and their final moments. Again, what Bunyan meant to

546
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:54.200
do with this, as this represents death. I know that

547
00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:56.640
that quote some scriptures that it sounds more like trial,

548
00:31:56.680 --> 00:31:58.480
but I guess what they're basically saying is death is

549
00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:01.000
that final trial. Okay, yes, if you go it that way,

550
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:07.240
but that's how it's pictured by Bunyan. Is the only

551
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:10.440
way to escape this river is to God to take

552
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:15.319
us apart from dying. Right, You're not gonna Alijah or

553
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.880
the last trump sounds unless that happens. We're going through

554
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:21.440
the river, which is death, and we're going to experience

555
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:24.799
some may peacefully, some may with great fear. But God

556
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:28.119
promises that he will not allow the death to overwhelm you,

557
00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:31.920
overflow you, and He will be with you. That sounds great.

558
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:35.160
It preaches good. Everyone will love the sermon. Everybody will

559
00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:37.799
say amen, and they will thank you for it. But

560
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:46.480
I'm here to say no, no, now. So there's a

561
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.880
little bit, And there's all kinds of study guides, there's

562
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:52.119
all kinds of books on the Pilgrim's Progress. I encouraged

563
00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:54.519
my church to read it. Look, I would encourage you

564
00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:57.240
to read Pilgrim's Progress. Everyone should read it. It's a

565
00:32:57.319 --> 00:33:00.160
very famous work. So I'm not telling you not to read.

566
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:03.599
I'm saying when he quotes scripture, your job is to say,

567
00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:05.799
I don't care how Bunyan's quoting it, what does the

568
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:14.279
scripture actually say? So I was curious did this greatly

569
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:17.960
impact the way Christians have handled the text since he

570
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:23.440
wrote the book? And according to what I can discover,

571
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:28.640
John Bunyan's allegorical use of Isaiah forty three in The

572
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:34.400
Pilgrim's Progress has significantly influenced the way Christians interpret and

573
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:38.519
apply passages like Isaiah forty three to two, especially in

574
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:42.319
spiritualizing the promises of God's presence through trials by using

575
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.240
Isaiah forty three to illustrate the believer's journey through death.

576
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:51.079
Bunyan set a precedent for interpreting Old Testament promises as

577
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:55.720
spiritual metaphors for the Christian life, particularly for the assurance

578
00:33:55.759 --> 00:33:59.279
of God's presence through life's ultimate trial death. I want

579
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:05.440
you to know, Banyan set a precedent, a precedent. Hey,

580
00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:07.160
you can go here and you can just do this,

581
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:09.320
and you can make this this, and you can make

582
00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:14.360
this this, and you can make this this. Well, once

583
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:19.679
you set the precedent, where does it stop? How far

584
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.639
can you go? Where are the rules? Who puts up

585
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.239
the rules at that point and say no, no, no, no,

586
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:26.920
that out? You got the allegory wrong. I mean, I

587
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:30.079
mean I messed up the allegory right. I was like, no, no, no, no,

588
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:33.280
no no. The only way to get away from this river, right,

589
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:35.079
the only way to get away from this river is

590
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:37.440
you have to die, right, So you have to die

591
00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:39.800
to escape this river. Other than that, you've got to

592
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:41.840
go through the river. And so I was going to say,

593
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:44.880
the river represents all the pain and suffering and confusion

594
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:46.880
in life. And you've got to go through it unless

595
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:49.559
you die. Unless you die, you can skip the river.

596
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:51.559
But if you don't die, you have to go through

597
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.760
the river. Well, no, that's not how he was using it.

598
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:56.039
He was using it. No, the river is death and

599
00:34:56.039 --> 00:34:57.920
the only way to get around it is to well

600
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:01.400
God to take you. I COMPLA was messing up the metaphor.

601
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:04.239
I was completely changing it. But I mean, why can't

602
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:06.960
I change it? Right? Why can't I say, Look, there's

603
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.920
this river in front of us, and it's called life,

604
00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:14.360
and it's filled with pain and sin and failure and

605
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:18.760
doubt and depression, and it's not good. It's filled with

606
00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:21.639
so much suffering. It could be disease, it can be everything.

607
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.800
And you've got to go through that river. Unless you die,

608
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.800
you're going through it. But here's the thing. God promises

609
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:29.400
you that when you go through it, He's going to

610
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:31.840
be with you and you're not going to be overwhelmed

611
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:36.280
by it. So the river actually represents life. I mean,

612
00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:38.639
why can't I make it that way? Right? I mean,

613
00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:40.119
I mean, come on, I mean we can do whatever

614
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:41.840
we want. I mean EXAIA forty three or two. I

615
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.039
can make the river be anything. I can turn there.

616
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:47.079
I can make the river represent anything. So even though

617
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:51.199
I messed up and I'm misinterpreted, I was misspeaking about

618
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:54.719
how John Bunyan was handling it, and a roundabout way,

619
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:56.960
it just demonstrates we can just write our own You

620
00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:59.920
can make anything an allegory. You could write fifteen allegory

621
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:02.280
and everyone could use Isaiah forty three to two and

622
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:05.000
probably make it fit. Because once you take the text,

623
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:07.119
it turns into Plato and you can be like, well,

624
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:13.239
this represents this, and this represents this, and this represents this. Now,

625
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:16.159
obviously I was foolish to interpret it that way because

626
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:20.719
the text the audio literally said Enoch and Elijah, even

627
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:23.079
though I said elisha if I even messed that up.

628
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:25.400
But the point was my brain was trying to go

629
00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:28.119
through all of this, and well, once you start getting

630
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:34.599
into the metaphor, it's just where is the end?

631
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:36.800
The end?

632
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:41.679
Now? What has the impact been on this book on

633
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:50.960
interpretation and application spiritualized and allegorical applications. Bunyan's in interpretation

634
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:57.880
led to a common Christian approach of spiritualizing Old Testament

635
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:00.280
promises that were initially given to Isra. I want you

636
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:04.639
to hear this again. John Bunyan's interpretation led to a

637
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:11.039
common Christian approach to spiritualize Old Testament promises that were

638
00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:15.280
initially given to Israel. What was happening in that prison

639
00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:18.920
cell was not a good thing. Ultimately. I know people

640
00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:20.440
are gonna get mad at me for saying this, but

641
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:22.239
I know it was a bad thing because what did

642
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:26.119
it lead to. It's led to this idea of spiritualizing

643
00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:29.760
Old Testament promises that were given to Israel and making

644
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:33.760
them about us. In sixteen seventy eight, he opened the door, like,

645
00:37:33.880 --> 00:37:36.239
you can just insert us wherever you want, and you

646
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:38.599
can just spiritualize it and make it whatever you want

647
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:40.480
to make the river death, make the river death, you

648
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:42.679
want to make the river trials, make it trials. If

649
00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:46.199
you want to make the river dating, make it dating.

650
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:48.320
Whatever you want to make it marriage, make just make

651
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:59.480
it whatever you wanted to make it. For example, promises

652
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.400
of God's presence through water and fire, as in Isaiah

653
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:05.960
forty three, have been reinterpreted to address spiritual trials or

654
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:10.400
death for believers. This approach became a popular way to

655
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:14.719
read many Old Testament texts, applying them directly to individual

656
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:20.920
spiritual experiences rather than Israel's historical situation Israel gets moved out,

657
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:24.719
we get moved in. Or, as I've liked to say,

658
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:30.000
what do we do? We become narcissistic textual hijackers. Right,

659
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:34.440
it's about us. We hijacked the plane, we hijacked the text,

660
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.639
and we make it about us, and then we fly

661
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:41.519
the plane to wherever we want it to go. So

662
00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:44.679
what was the impact of John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress. It

663
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:52.880
led to a spiritualized and allegorical application Number two, Comfort

664
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:56.519
and facing death and trials. The River of Death allegory

665
00:38:56.719 --> 00:39:00.239
helped shape a tradition of applying Isaiah forty three too,

666
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:03.679
specifically to the experience of dying and to facing life's

667
00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:06.679
greatest fears. Christians have often drawn on this passage for

668
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:09.800
comfort in times of death, suffering, and loss, believing it

669
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:13.239
assures them of God's constant presence and protection not just

670
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:16.480
for Israel, but for themselves individually. Now here's the thing.

671
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:21.559
If you find great comfort and a text that is

672
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:26.800
being misinterpreted and misimplied, is that real comfort or is

673
00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:38.519
it fake? What's more important to you? Comfort, peace or

674
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:42.039
textual accuracy? I mean, come on, honestly, what's more important

675
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:48.400
to you? Peace, comfort, encouragement, your life feels better, or

676
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:52.000
textual accuracy which is more important to you. I will

677
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:54.440
argue the average person sitting in the pew could care

678
00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:58.840
less about textual accuracy. They want a sermon that uplifts them,

679
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:01.239
gives them a sense of space, sir rituality makes him

680
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:04.000
feel like that church was practical and good, and they

681
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:06.960
don't care about how accurate the text was handled only

682
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:09.360
until they get ticked off. Then they'll say they care

683
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:11.880
about the text being accurate. Oh, if they don't like

684
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:14.679
what they said, then they want accuracy as long as

685
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:17.840
they like it. They could care less how accurate the

686
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:19.880
text is being handled as long as they're out by noon.

687
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:33.000
So it did bring comfort, but again comfort for whom

688
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:37.000
the comfort. Look if you go to Isaiah forty, this

689
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:41.239
entire section Isaiah forty to fifty five, Look how it begins.

690
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:45.320
Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. Who

691
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:48.360
is he going to comfort there? Well, we just come

692
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:57.679
in and say me number three. So what was the

693
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:01.920
impact of this book? It led to usiritualized and allegorical application.

694
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:05.440
It did bring comfort. Number three had encourage an already

695
00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:08.960
not yet interpretation. Bunyan Jews of Isaiah forty three in

696
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:11.840
The Pilgrim's Progress helped advance and already not yet view

697
00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:15.079
of biblical promises, where Old Testament assurance to Israel are

698
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:18.360
seen as foreshadowing the spiritual assurance given to Christians under

699
00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:21.400
the New Covenant. This interpretation aligns with how some Christians

700
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:24.599
view Old Testament promises as spiritually fulfilled in the Church

701
00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:27.840
today in a way that anticipates ultimate fulfillment in God's

702
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:30.920
eternal kingdom. So they're like, hey, yeah, this was for Israel,

703
00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:34.360
but but bu buh buh buh. But but but it's

704
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:39.199
it's also for us. It's also for the church. So

705
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:42.119
you can say, well, it was kind of partially fulfilled,

706
00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:45.480
but it's ultimately be fulfilled in us. But again, you're

707
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:48.559
just basically making you You may give a little bit

708
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:51.800
of nod, some acknowledgment that it was to Israel, but

709
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:54.239
you immediately kick them out of the text. I'm like, sorry, guys,

710
00:41:54.400 --> 00:42:01.599
we're moving in. We're taking over the plane. And number four,

711
00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:06.960
it's influence on Christian literature and sermons. Bunyan's allegories set

712
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:10.360
a pattern for sermons, hymns, and Christian literature that follow

713
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:13.760
a similar approach interpreting Old Testament promises as metaphors for

714
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:17.719
the spiritual life. Many hymns and devotionals echo Bunyan's adaptation

715
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:20.639
of Isaiah forty three, speaking of God's presence through life

716
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:24.199
of trials or final waters as metaphors for suffering and death.

717
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:31.159
So it began to influence how pastors handle things. This

718
00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:35.159
also serves as a cautionary influence on interpretation. While Bunyan's

719
00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:39.719
approach has provided comfort and encouragement, it has led to

720
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:44.840
some theological challenges. Number one, the over spiritualization. Some readers

721
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:48.400
may overlook the original context of Old Testament passages, applying

722
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:51.800
promises given to Israel directly to themselves without considering the

723
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:57.440
historical and covenantal background, a potential for misinterpretation. Allegorizing texts

724
00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.599
can sometimes obscure the literal meaning or primary audience of

725
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:03.599
a passage, leading to interpretations that may not align with

726
00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:08.800
the author's original intent. Bunyan's interpretation of Isaiah forty three

727
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:11.320
as a promise of God's presence through the river of

728
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:14.840
death has had a lasting impact on Christian thought, shaping

729
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:18.719
how many believers understand and apply Old Testament promises. By

730
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:22.719
Adapting Isaiah forty three in The Pilgrim's Progress, he provided

731
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:25.920
a framework for spiritualizing Biblical texts to fit the Christian

732
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:28.800
experience of trial, at suffering, and death, a practice that

733
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:35.480
has profoundly influenced devotional literature, preaching, and hymns ever since

734
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:40.280
that day. While this approach has offered significant comfort, it

735
00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:43.639
serves as a reminder to balance spiritual application with the

736
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:47.559
respect for the original context. Now they are being way

737
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:53.800
too nice. What happened in sixteen seventy eight had an

738
00:43:53.880 --> 00:44:03.599
absolutely profoundly negative and destructive influence on devotionals, commentaries, and

739
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:07.000
sermons and hymns. Where we can just go to the

740
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:11.599
Bible and do whatever we want with it. When you

741
00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:17.960
come to Isaiah forty three and this entire section starting

742
00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:21.039
in forty, it's about comfort, but it's comfort to a

743
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:24.519
specific people, and that specific people would be those in

744
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:29.599
Babylonian exile, those in Babylonian captivity. If you want to divide,

745
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:31.719
if you want to use Israel and well, if you

746
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:35.079
want to use a more specific term, a more technical term,

747
00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:37.719
this would be for Judah and the Southern Kingdom, who's

748
00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:40.039
in Babylonian exile. You want to use Israel just in

749
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:45.639
a general sense. It's for Israel, and it has an

750
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:49.280
immediate context. The immediate context is coming out of Babylonian exile.

751
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:53.519
I think it has a context that fits eschatology. Israel

752
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:56.480
is always going to be in some form of exile. Basically,

753
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:58.320
they're always going to be. I mean, look what happened,

754
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:00.199
even though when they came out of Babylonian exile. What

755
00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:02.639
ultimately happens when you read your Bible, you open up

756
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:04.559
the Bible to the New Testament, where is Israel under

757
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:06.519
the Hill of Rome. What happens in seventy eight d

758
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:08.679
they wipped off the face of the earth. They're scattered

759
00:45:08.679 --> 00:45:10.920
all over the place. Finally in nineteen forty eight they

760
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:12.679
kind of come back to their land, but they're not

761
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:16.599
all there, and they still face war, attack and everything else.

762
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:19.400
But there is coming a time, as promised in the Bible,

763
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:21.960
that God will bring Israel into the land that will

764
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:24.199
finally have the land, and then He's going to completely

765
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:27.039
transform them where there's no more idolatry, no more sin.

766
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:31.000
He will be their God, they will be his people,

767
00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:33.920
and everything will be fulfilled as fulfilled. So there's a

768
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:38.039
future fulfillment as well. If you say, well, where do

769
00:45:38.119 --> 00:45:40.119
we fit in? Well, where do we fit in? We

770
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:43.360
fit in in the same sense as Israel. We are

771
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:45.960
in exile. We are in this world, but we're not

772
00:45:46.039 --> 00:45:48.400
of it where Pilgrims were strangers here. And there will

773
00:45:48.440 --> 00:45:50.119
come a time that God. And this is I don't

774
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:51.960
need to go to Isaiah forty three to do any

775
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.039
of this, because I could got New Testament passages that

776
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:56.400
would speak about us. There's coming a time that God

777
00:45:56.440 --> 00:46:00.039
will then call us up to his heaven where he

778
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:01.639
will be with him. And then what will happen. We

779
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:03.639
will be transformed and there will be no more a

780
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:05.800
body of sin, well if a glorified body, and there'll

781
00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:07.559
be no more pay no more suffering, and no more death.

782
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:09.280
And He will be our God and we will be

783
00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:12.119
his people. So there is a parallel, but that's not

784
00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:15.440
what these passages in Isaiah are primarily about their comfort

785
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:19.239
for Israel within their covenantal relationship with God, where he

786
00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:22.440
is promising he will, he will. He will in a

787
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:25.840
sense partially fulfill these promises, but the ultimate promise will

788
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:33.119
be fulfilled in a future time. What Bunyan did is

789
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:34.599
just say forget Israel.

790
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:38.480
It's about you. It's about your Christian life. Your Christian

791
00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:41.079
life is a metaphor, it's an allegory. And you can

792
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.559
go to the Bible and find any passage you want

793
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:46.440
and make it about your Christian life. You can write

794
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.320
your own Pilgrim's progress. You can make the story of

795
00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:52.320
David and Goliath about you. You can make this about you.

796
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:53.880
You can make this story about you.

797
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:55.760
You can make it. You can make you every story

798
00:46:55.760 --> 00:47:01.639
in the Bible about you. And so what does that create?

799
00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:06.079
It creates little narcissistic textual hijackers who run around and

800
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:13.159
make the text all about us while we throw Israel out.

801
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:20.440
So for clarification, Bunyan's approach to Isaiah forty three to

802
00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:25.239
two was that the river and the water represents death.

803
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:28.519
You're gonna see it, and you're gonna want to go

804
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:30.440
around it. You're want to be able to avoid it.

805
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:32.400
God says, the only way around is you have to

806
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:34.920
be an Enoch or in Elijah, where he takes you

807
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:37.960
apart from death right, you don't die, He just takes

808
00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:39.599
shit to heaven. Or you have to wait for the

809
00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:43.039
last trumpet. Unless that happens. You were going through the

810
00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:45.840
river the river represents death, but God promises to be

811
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:48.239
with you in death, and you're not gonna be overwhelmed.

812
00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:50.840
You're not gonna be drowned, because you're gonna come out

813
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:53.159
the other side. It's just a doorway, it's just a

814
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:55.320
shadow of death. You're going to pass right through and

815
00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:57.719
you're going to be in heaven. That sounds wonderful, it

816
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:00.639
sounds spiritual. You could even say it's syllologically sound. You

817
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:03.719
could say it's a wonderful truth. The only problem is

818
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:06.840
Isaiah forty three two has nothing to say about any

819
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:09.719
of that. Isaiah forty three two are literal promises to

820
00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:12.719
a literal nation Judah or we go with Judah the

821
00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:15.559
Southern Kingdom, or a Babylonian exile, and he is promising

822
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:17.599
them that He's going to be with them, and they

823
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:20.440
are not going to be overwhelmed and destroyed through what

824
00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:32.039
they are suffering. But God will bring them through. And

825
00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:36.320
what Bunyan did in sixteen seventy eight, he set the precedent.

826
00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:42.519
And now if you go to Sermon's two point oh happen,

827
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:46.400
look up sermons on Isaiah forty three you hear the

828
00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:54.559
echoes of his legacy. Now even if we go get

829
00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:56.360
our time machine built, and even if we get back

830
00:48:56.360 --> 00:48:58.199
to sixteen seventy eight, and even if we break into

831
00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:00.159
the prison, and even if we take his paper and

832
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:03.400
pencil away from him. Right, and now that I'm thinking

833
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:05.880
about it, there's no way he used pencil because he

834
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.480
had to be using pen, because there's no way if

835
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:11.239
he using pencil, of course, everything he wrote would have

836
00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:14.039
been right and godly and correct. He's using pen That's

837
00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:15.760
why it was all messed up. I guarantee it was

838
00:49:15.800 --> 00:49:18.800
written in pen. That it's proof. It's proof that writing

839
00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:21.280
in pen is evil. Okay, So I'm joking. I'm joking.

840
00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:23.599
The point is being serious. Even if we went back

841
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:26.679
and pulled it out of his hands, takes his writing

842
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:29.639
instrument pen away from him, and we go burn it all,

843
00:49:29.639 --> 00:49:30.920
get back on our time machine and come back to

844
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:32.760
twenty twenty four. You know what we will find when

845
00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:38.239
we arrive in twenty twenty four, Probably the same allogorizing

846
00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:45.760
and spiritualizing of the text, because that's what we do.

847
00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:53.400
We always are going to insert ourself. We're always going

848
00:49:53.480 --> 00:49:56.039
to want to see ourself. We always want it to

849
00:49:56.039 --> 00:50:01.039
be about ourselves, and we will find and comfort even

850
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:06.280
in a misapplication and misinterpretation of the text, because it

851
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:11.280
makes us feel better now, even though I think if

852
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:13.760
we removed it from Bunyan, we still would end up

853
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:19.519
in the same location. We can't just negate the legacy.

854
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:25.000
He had a profound influence on everything that happened afterwards

855
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:33.360
with this text. All right, I'll stop there. I'm conflicted.

856
00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:38.639
I know I messed up, but maybe my mess up

857
00:50:38.679 --> 00:50:41.679
does demonstrate that technically I could do anything I want.

858
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:44.960
With Isaiah forty three, someone could say the river represents death.

859
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:47.760
I'll say, no, it doesn't represent death. It represents trials

860
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:51.119
and life and trying to get around it. Is you

861
00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:53.599
want to be able to escape, You want to be

862
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:55.880
able to have a life without all the pain, suffering

863
00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:57.360
and death. Well, the only way to make that our

864
00:50:57.519 --> 00:50:59.679
pain suffering, The only way to get around it would be,

865
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:02.000
well you just have to die now, or because you're

866
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:04.800
going to go through it if you're alive. I know

867
00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:07.360
that's not what Bunyan was saying, and I misinterpreted it,

868
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:09.679
but I'm just what I want to demonstrate from that

869
00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:11.920
is literally we could you could just kind of write

870
00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:13.880
any allegory you want. If you're just and you can

871
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:15.639
make that. You can make the river and the waters

872
00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:21.719
represent literally anything. You can make the rivers and water

873
00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:30.039
represent one thing and the fire a separate thing. I mean,

874
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:31.679
we really we could just start going to town. You

875
00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:33.639
could just start writing yours, I could start writing mine.

876
00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:35.320
There would be no end to it, and we would

877
00:51:35.320 --> 00:51:38.760
all be using Isaiah forty three. Or we could say,

878
00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:40.760
maybe Isaiah forty three had an original audience with the

879
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:48.519
original purpose. So my mess up hopefully will only help

880
00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:53.280
illustrate the danger here, but hopefully we'll also reinforce what

881
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:57.039
Bunyan was actually trying to do. Because I completely misrepresented Bunyan,

882
00:51:57.079 --> 00:51:59.000
and I did not have any intention to do that,

883
00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:02.239
because I don't everyone to misrepresent any body. I don't

884
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:05.360
care who it is. I don't care if it's Satanists, Muslims, Mormons, Catholics,

885
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:07.480
I don't care. You don't want to misrepresent. You always

886
00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:10.199
want to make sure you don't bear false witness. But

887
00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:12.519
I think I corrected it, so obviously you can tell

888
00:52:12.519 --> 00:52:14.400
what bothered me the most by this, But I am

889
00:52:14.440 --> 00:52:16.760
bothered by the legacy of it, and in some ways

890
00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:18.639
I kind of kick myself because I didn't catch on.

891
00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:22.400
I told everyone read Pilgrim's Progress. Everyone read it. Everyone

892
00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:24.559
read it. Everyone read it. Everyone read it, everyone read it,

893
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:26.880
everyone read it. Because I just got caught up in oh,

894
00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:31.039
this represents this represent I love analyzing. I love allegory

895
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:34.159
in a sense. I love doing film analysis, like, oh,

896
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:36.920
why did they take the camera shot from this way

897
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:39.280
and see the lighting? And this represents this? And this

898
00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:42.280
represents this. I love that stuff. Right, So, just from

899
00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:45.159
a pure oh, read it and figure out the allegory.

900
00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:48.280
That's like a puzzle. That's awesome. I never in my

901
00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:54.280
brain ever registered wait a minute, this is this is

902
00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:56.159
going to have an impact on the text and how

903
00:52:56.159 --> 00:53:02.639
people interpret the text. I didn't see the correlation. I

904
00:53:02.679 --> 00:53:05.440
still don't resent having people read it. I still think

905
00:53:05.480 --> 00:53:07.360
everyone should read it just because of its place in

906
00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:10.320
church history. But I think as you read it now,

907
00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:12.000
you should read it with a much more critical eye.

908
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:14.360
You're like, wait a minute, he's using what scripture? Did

909
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:17.159
he just reference there? What did he do? Wait? Wait

910
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:20.800
that script whoa, what's happening here? That's not what we

911
00:53:20.840 --> 00:53:23.199
need to do. Now. You won't be well received in

912
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:25.960
doing that, because it'll be almost viewed as blasphemy, because

913
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:29.039
how dare you offer criticism, but you know the book

914
00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:31.480
can be criticized. I don't know if we realize this,

915
00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:37.480
but Bunyan was not, you know, divinely inspired when he

916
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:49.239
wrote Pilgrim's Progress. All right, thanks for listening. We'll see

917
00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:52.440
if my desire to go from Isaiah forty to Isaiah

918
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:54.960
fifty five pans out, and if it does, if it

919
00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:58.360
proves to be beneficial. But it's proving to me that

920
00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:01.519
we may it may be necess just to show you

921
00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:04.880
how bad this section of scripture has been handled throughout

922
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:08.079
church history. So all right, we'll see. Thanks for listening.

923
00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:11.719
Everyone have a great day, and God bless