Is God In Hell?

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Looking at our world from a theological
perspective. This is the Theology Central podcast

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making Theology Central. Good morning everyone. It is Friday, July the fifth,

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twenty twenty four. It is currently
ten oh four am Central Time,

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and I am coming to you live
from the Theology Central studio located right here

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in Abilene, Texas. Well.
Did you have a wonderful and happy Fourth

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of July? Did it go wonderful? Was it great for you? I

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don't know about where you live,
but here in Abilene, Texas. Oh,

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we had, we had some fun
in Abilene, Texas. Well,

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it didn't really happen on the fourth
of July. It actually happened on the

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third of July. You see.
There there was controversy in Abilene, Texas,

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lots of controversy because typically where the
big city wide fireworks display occurs,

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it's really close to the zoo.
Well this year the zoo director was like,

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Nope, not going to happen.
Over my dead body, the fireworks.

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They it traumatizes the animals. So
you gotta take your fireworks display and

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you got to go packing. You
can't do it near the zoo, all

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right. So so everybody with people
who are like who love animals were like,

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yay. People who don't care were
like, that's that's where it's been

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for fifty years. I don't care
if the animal Okay, So you know,

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you had a little bit of controversy. So they moved the fireworks display

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near one of the large high schools. Not actually not very far from my

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house, Wiley High School, all
right, not far from my house at

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all. I probably could be there
and what five to six minutes maybe maybe

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seven minutes, right, not far. So they had their big fireworks display

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and they absolutely started a raging wildfire
case exactly what happened. Now, what's

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funny is the city had been putting
out these ridiculous videos to try to tell

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everyone no fireworks are to be shot
off in the in the Abilene city limits

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because we're on a burn band,
because you know, we're in West Texas.

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This is when all the rain stops
and it returns back to desert.

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Okay, I mean this is it's
it's you know, one hundred and five

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degrees and no rain, and yeah, everything you a spark will set off

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a fire. So they've been telling
everyone no fireworks in the city limits of

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Abilee, no fireworks in the city
limits of Abley, do not do any

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fireworks, you will burn the whole
state to the ground. All right,

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well guess what the city said that. Then they have the big city wide

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fireworks display and they start this massive
fire. They finally get it under control.

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It's just, it's just it's so
ridiculous because on one end, you

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can look at what the city of
Abilene is telling you not to do,

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but then they're like, hey,
we've got a permit, we know what

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we're doing, and then they almost
burn the school down to the ground.

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All the video and pictures of it
are hilarious, and of course all the

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comments everyone was making was making me
last. So that's how things were going

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here in the Abilene, Texas area. I don't know how things are going

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where you live, but yeah,
that's why. So now it's you know,

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the talk of the town because i
mean, you know, Abilene's not

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like some major city, so you
know, everyone's got opinions about it,

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and it's just it makes me left. So people calling it the great you

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know Fourth of July catastrophe, Okay, well it wasn't that bad. I

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mean, they got it under control. It could have I mean, I

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think the reason people are joking so
much about it is because it could have

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literally gotten out of control. I
mean, we have a history of having

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some really bad fires in this area
this time of year because things get so

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dry and you just can't You got
to be extra careful and so well.

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So last night, at least in
my neighborhood, which typically sounds like a

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war zone, there was like almost
no one. No. I think everyone

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was afraid. No one wanted to
shoot off a firework, well, burn

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everything to the ground. Now,
there were some larger you know area,

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there's some areas nearby where there obviously
some people had large supplies of fireworks where

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they were going off. I think
people were extra cautious last night. So

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it was much quieter here. What
I could have actually probably done a broadcast

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it was. It was that quiet. Maybe here or there there were some

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things that when may have interfered,
but for the most part it was quiet.

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But I know most of you were
out doing whatever you were doing.

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So hopefully you had a great fourth. So Abilene almost burnt to the ground

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on the third, it was quiet
on the fourth. Well, now it's

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July the fifth, it's time to
move on. Now, remember we're currently

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in the middle of a challenge.
And that challenge is you're supposed to be

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listening to live webcasts on the sermon's
two point oh. App that's what you're

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supposed to be doing, and we
are. And I already realized the mistake

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I made because we are seeing so
many of the broadcasts, especially leading up

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to the fourth and even today,
where it seems to be very I mean,

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there's no way to get around it. The the idol of patriotism is

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alive. And well, there's there's
a live webcast going on right now.

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If you go look, you'll you'll
you'll definitely notice. It's the largest American

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flag I've ever seen behind the pulpit. I think is gigantic. Now,

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I don't know if that's inside a
church or if it's inside a college or

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a high school. If it's not
in a sanctuary, Okay, if that's

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in a sanctuary, then that is
that is that is ridiculous. That is

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just absolutely ridiculous. But I so
I wanted to listen to that, but

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I felt like, you know,
you know, well, I felt like

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I got things I have to get
done, right, so I feel like

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this is the time to broadcast.
So I'm going to broadcast, but you

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can go. I may go back
and try to listen to that sermon.

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I don't think the sermon was about
patriotism. I don't think in any way,

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shape or form. It sounded like
he was talking about Elijah and you

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know that we need a new generation
of Elijah's to rise up that kind of

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type of thing. And then he
was swirling his coat over his head.

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I don't know what was going It's
some kind of youth conference. So I

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definitely want to kind of keep up
in the main reason I want to keep

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up with that is I always like
to see what the churches think the young

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people of twenty twenty four need to
hear. And what we typically find when

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we listen to these like youth conferences
is it's always just moralism, moralism,

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moralism, moralism, moralism, moralism, moralism, instead of any actual theology.

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So that's always very discouraging and depressing. So we may go look at

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that, but you can go look
at that American flag if you so desire.

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Now, I have a specific goal
to accomplish in this broadcast, which

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I always do, but I'm going
to take just I mean, I'm already

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taking a few detours. Let me
take one more detour. All right,

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one more detour because right when I
was getting ready to go alive, right

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when I was getting ready to go
live, I got an email. Oh

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man, these emails. All right. I get an email and the subject

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line is final push to our goal, Final push to our Goal. And

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I'm like, oh, okay,
I wonder what this is. Final push

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to our Goal. I know it's
going to be from a ministry, and

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I bet you it's going to have
something to do with money. I almost

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guarantee. So I open it up
and of course it has Hi. Oh

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boy, here we go. I
wanted to reach out to you about the

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Beacon of Hope matching challenge as it
ends today. Pathway to Victory's mission is

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to spread the light of God's word
and offer hope to those in need.

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With your support, we can continue
sharing the message of faith, love and

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redemption. Now. Pathway to Victory
is Robert Jeffers. He's the pastor first

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Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas.
I believe where they have like a multi

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I mean it's like a two hundred
and fifty three hundred million dollars what they

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call campus. It's crazy. It
made news all over the state of Texas

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when they were building it. Oh
man, it was. It was such

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big news because they were like millions
of dollars to build this thing downtown Dallas,

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all right, So that they are
there to say they are a rich

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church would be the understatement, maybe
the greatest understatement ever. They have to

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be one of the wealthiest churches,
just because of how much money went into

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just building their their quote unquote campus. All right. So, and I

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don't even know how many people attend
the thing, but it's a giant church

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with lots of money. But yet
I get an email emailing me and guess

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what they want me to do.
They want me to help donate because you

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know what they need. They need
seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars so that

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they can broadcast. They need seven
hundred and fifty thousand dollars to support their

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thirty minute broadcast that airs Monday through
Friday. That is nothing more than edited

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sermons. Hey. They take their
sermons, edit them down and then broadcast

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them on different Christian radio stations and
on the internet five days a week thirty

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minutes. So you give them seven
they need to raise seven hundred and fifty

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thousand dollars so they can broadcast thirty
minute edited sermon clips. Now I have

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a hard time with that because for
seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars, ladies

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and gentlemen, I promise you,
I guarantee you. I will broadcast five

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to eight hours a day. If
you need it, I will broadcast at

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least five minimum five hours a day
seven hundred fifty thousand dollars. I'll do

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eight hours a day. I'll broadcast
eight hours a day. I'll wake up

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and just come in here to the
studio and go, this is my job

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for the next eight hours, and
just broadcast. Broadcast, broadcast, broadcast

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for seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars. For seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars,

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I'll make We'll have curric digital curriculum
available to everyone. We'll do book

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giveaways. We'll be broadcasting on every
platform that we can possibly find. Seven

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hundred and fifty thousand dollars. I'll
create the Theology Central Radio station. We'll

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broadcast twenty four hours a day,
seven days a week. Okay. I'll

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work with other ministries to see if
I can use their content we'll create a

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radio station seven hundred and fifty thousand
dollars. This is what they say.

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Now, remember they need the support
so that they can continue to share the

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message of faith because they don't have
enough money to share the message of faith

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and it costs so much to you
know, broadcast on the internet. I

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guess all right, So he says, we have a goal of seven hundred

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and fifty thousand dollars, and your
donation will make a significant impact on our

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ability to reach hearts and change lives. Your participation in this mission can help

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bring Jesus hope to many. Your
gift will be matched dollar for dollar,

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effectively increasing the impact we can make. If you're not able to donate this

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time, that's okay. Your previous
support is much appreciated and you can contribute

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in the future if you wish.
But if you're willing an able to donate,

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you can help us reach our goal
to make a difference today. Considered

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donating together, Let's shine the light
of God's love into the darkest corners of

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our world. Thanks again for all
you do. Gratefully, Doctor Robert Jeffris

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Pathway to Victory, Dallas, Texas, seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

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Look, I have I struggle with
that. I'm just going to be full

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transparency. I have a hard time
with that, I really do. I

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get these emails from these ministries almost
weekly that we need a million dollars,

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we need five hundred thousand dollars,
we need seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars,

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we need eight hundred thousand dollars.
It's never like, hey, we

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just need one hundred dollars. No, we need hundreds of thousands, if

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not millions of dollars. And the
thing is, thousands of Christians will give

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them the money, they will raise
the money, they will reach their goal,

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and then within twelve months, probably
within six months. I guarantee you

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from you watch from this ministry from
the Pathway to Victory. It is July.

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I will get another email within the
next four to five months. I

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guarantee you. I'll get one probably
around Thanksgiving, and I'll get another one

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around Christmas, and then maybe one
last one. Probably I'll probably get three

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before the year is overall, asking
for crazy amounts of money, and they

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will get the money. So you
just have to sit there and ask like

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I don't get it, Like it's
like I, I mean, go listen

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to Pathway to Victory. You go
listen to it, maybe you'll maybe,

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and I mean this without sarcasm.
You look up Pathway to Victory, find

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their website, find all of their
content. You go listen to their messages,

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and you may go, well,
I can see why they're asking for

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seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
He's one of the best speakers I've ever

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heard in my life. But I
would give him one hundred thousand dollars just

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myself because he deserves it. And
that's fine if you. But I listen

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and I'm like, that's worth seven
hundred and fifty thousand dollars for you know,

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less than thirty minutes of an edited
sermon, Like I just don't.

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I just don't understand that where I
know seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars,

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I could broadcast for fifty years for
seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars, Like

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I just I just don't get it. But so that's what's going on.

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So that's already irritating, and you
can make I don't know what your feelings

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are about it. It's always interesting. I think some people in the Pew

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think well, what's the problem.
These ministries need support, And I understand

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that. From my perspective, it's
just like, well, yeah, we

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all need support, All ministries need
support, but for that much money.

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Like I know how much it costs
a broadcast on the internet. I know.

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I mean, look at all the
things we had to cut, right.

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We used to offer digital curriculum.
We could not get enough support.

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We had to get rid of it. We used to broadcast on numerous platforms.

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We had to cut some of them
because we cannot raise enough support.

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Right, So we even talked about
the end of twenty twenty three, maybe

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just ending everything because it's hard to
get support. So I understand that every

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ministry needs money, but I have
never asked for seven hundred and fifty thousand

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dollars. Okay, I mean,
you know, and I mean come on,

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I mean seven hundred and fifty I
mean yeah, okay, all right,

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but I digress. You can make
your own determination. But we're here

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about another email. See that's one
email, but we're here because of another

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email. I received an email.
Let me go back to the date on

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this one. I received an email
on July the second, at seven thirty

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eight pm and someone sit me in
an email saying, Hey, I'm participating

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in your live webcast challenge. That's
always encouraging. And they told me they

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basically they were listening to something and
the person made some statement about God and

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his presence and hell, and the
emailer was kind of like, so did

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I hear this right? Basically?
How do I understand this? Could you

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review this? It's very short?
Could you let me know if i'm you

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know, what is the correct way
to understand this? And so I greatly

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appreciate it obviously, first the person
participating. I greatly appreciate the person asking

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the question, and we're going to
do our very best to try to figure

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this out. Now, logic and
wisdom would dictate that I go listen to

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it first, then I, you
know, gather all of my thoughts,

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and then I email the person back. But you know, I don't necessarily

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like to do that, right because
if I have to go watch something,

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if I have to go listen to
something, why do I go watch and

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listen to it in private? Why
not just watch and listen to it with

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everyone else and then we try to
figure out the answer together. Now,

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to me, that's more fun.
That makes this podcast much more organic,

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It makes it much more real,
and I like that, but it also

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means I'm going in blind. Now. The thing that could happen is I

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could listen to this and then I
could be like, I don't understand the

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problem, which that would be Then
kind of that could offend the original email

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or so I know there's always a
danger here. Or I may go,

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oh wait, wait, you missed
the real problem. Okay, that's not

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the problem. So I may I
may hear something completely different so to the

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original email, or however I respond, it's not about you, it's about

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I'm going to be responding to whatever
I hear, Okay, and we're going

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to do our best to try to
figure this out. But I think before

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we listen to this, we do
need at least now now I could be

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making a mistake here, But since
this seems to be a discussion possibly that

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we're going to listen to dealing with
hell and God and and maybe the presence

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of God in hell and how all
of this works, I think we need

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to start with kind of just maybe
some definitions of hell, or at least

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some basic points and things to consider
when we discuss hell, because obviously the

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doctrine of hell is not a pleasant
doctrine. I think we can all agree

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with that. I mean, it's
a horrible concept when you from a human

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perspective. From a God perspective,
you know it may it's going to be

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completely different. But from a human
perspective, you have to kind of understand

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the way this looks. All right, from a human perspective, there's a

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God who's all knowing, all powerful, knew exactly what was going to happen

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when he created the world. But
at the same time, he knew that

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when he created the world that there's
going to be all these people who don't

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do quote unquote the right thing and
they end up then burning for eternity.

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That's hard to wrap your mind around. It's a very uncomfortable doctrine right now.

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Many Christians almost relish in it,
right you know, Oh, you

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don't believe the right thing, well
you're going to be sorry almost, like

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you know, I don't know why
we we'd ever talk that way, but

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trust me, Christians do. And
I can't stand it because the concept of

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hell should bother you. Like.
In fact, sometimes I don't like I

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struggle with it because there's been times
in my Christian life. I'm just gonna

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be honest with you. I almost
reached the point a couple of times I

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felt like I was going to have
a nervous breakdown, Like I literally thought

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emotionally I was not going to be
able to handle it because the thought that

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I'm sitting here and then there's human
beings who died and they're burning for eternity,

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that's very difficult for me to comprehend, right, And so then it's

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like almost like living with this like
reality that people are burning. People are

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burning. And at the same time, from a theological perspective, some people

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say, well, that should motivate
you to evangelize. Well, I can

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evangelize all day. If you believe
in a free will worldview, I can

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only I can only evangelize. But
their will has to decide. It's not

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my job to manipulate their will because
I want them to exercise their free will.

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Any force upon their free will or
manipulation upon their free will is not

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respecting their free will. So if
I truly believe in free will, then

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I'm not going to do anything to
manipulate or do that. Even though many

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churches who believe in free will,
the very ones who manipulate and use every

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psychological trick in the book to try
to get someone to say a prayer.

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I can't. I can't stand that, right, So that's not truly respecting

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the doctor. In a free will, If someone has to make a free

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will decision, then you don't manipulate
or do anything to force you. All

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you can do is simply present.
And if you believe in a calvinistic soteriology,

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well then all you can do is
present and then God has to do

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the work. And either way you're
limited in what you can do. So

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that that's a very it's just a
very difficult concept. But I think that

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we have certain when we talk about
Hell. I think there's certain ways we

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describe it, right. Some refer
to Hell as a place of punishment for

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the unrighteous, and many Biblical passages, Hell is depicted as a place of

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punishment for those who have rejected salvation
and lived without righteousness. It describes a

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place of torment, suffering. And
I listen to this phrase separation from God.

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Separation from God. Now that's a
phrase that shows up frequently when we

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speak of Hell. We speak of
a christless or godless eternity where you are

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separated from God for all eternity,
which would seem to indicate, well,

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God is not there, God is
not present. Is that a philologically sound

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way to describe it? Is God
present in Hell? Or is He not

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present? Another way of describing it
is eternal consequence. The Bible often portrays

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Hell as an eternal destination for the
unrepentant, where individuals face the consequences of

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their actions. For all eternity is
described as a place of eternal punishment where

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there is no escape or relief.
Okay, that doesn't use the separation from

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God concept, but all right,
we definitely have a place of punishment in

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a place of eternity, fire and
darkness Hell Hell sometimes is depicted as a

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place of fiery torment or outer darkness, symbolizing the intense suffering a separation from

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God. There's the phrase again,
separation from God that awaits the ungodly.

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These images convey the severity of the
punishment and those who reject God's grace.

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So there twice now, just in
two like trying to look at different ways,

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Hell is described two different times.
Now The phrase separation from God.

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Separation from God separation from God.
In hell, you are separated from God.

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In hell, you are in a
christless, godless eternity. You are

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separated from God forever. So is
God. If God's there, then am

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I separated from it? What do
we mean by that? All right?

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Another one, Hell is often associated
with the final judgment of all humanity,

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where God will separate the righteous from
the unrighteous. Those consigned to Hell will

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face God's judgment for their sins and
will be held accountable for the rejection of

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God's offer of salvation. Now,
please note that will face God's judgment.

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Now, is that God putting you
there for the judgment? Or is God

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present in some way pouring out his
judgment in wrath upon you? So is

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it God just puts you there,
but he's separated from it? Or is

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God present somehow? Is some aspect
of God present? These are maybe theological

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questions you've never considered before. That's
why you know, I love getting emails,

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because emails may take me down a
path that I had not even considered.

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All right, but now now listen
to this one. They describe hell

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as at the absence of God's presence. One aspect of hell on the Bible

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is the absence of God's presence and
grace. Those in Hell are separated from

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God, experiencing the full weight of
their rebellion and sin without hope of reconciliation.

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So over and over and over when
you look up definitions of hell or

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descriptions of hell, no matter what
philological book you may be looking in,

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or or you know, Bible study
book, they're constantly going to refer to

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Hell as the absence of God's presence
or separated from God. So if we

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describe Hell as the absence of God's
presence or the separation from God, then

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can we say God is in Hell? Or maybe we should stop describing Hell

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as the absence of God's presence and
we have to be more more specific,

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We have to be more careful in
our language. We talked about this in

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a recent broadcast about the importance of
philological language. Is Hell a place of

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separation from God? Or is Hell
at a place where you're separated from God's

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mercy and grace but you experience the
presence of God in his wrath and condemnation.

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How do we understand this now?
Supposedly what the clip that was the

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link that was provided in the email
is going to take me to a audio

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clip that's about this very subject.
And this aired on the Sermon's two point

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oh app is a live webcast.
It is called in the judgment by doctor

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Steve J. Lawson Stephen J.
Lawson. All right, in the judgment

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doctor Stephen J. Lawson. They
broadcast early in the morning, like eight

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seven in the morning. Eight in
the morning, I think is when their

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live webcast comes on the air on
the Sermon's two point oh app. Sometimes

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I can catch it. Most of
the times I probably miss it because when

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at that time, I'm usually trying
to get focused on what I'm going to

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be doing for the day. But
yeah, if you ever up early,

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00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:03.920
you can check them out. But
look, we're gonna listen to this.

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It's only like thirteen minutes long,
so it should go by relatively quick.

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Let's see what we let's see what
we learn, let's see what we can

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I don't know where this is going
to go. So the question really is

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how should we describe Hell. Is
it a place where God is not present

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and you're separated forever from the presence
of God? Or is God present in

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some way, shape or form,
Because on one hand, God is omni

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present. He is present everywhere at
all times. So can he not be

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present if he's not present in hell? Would that then not? Would that

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call into question his omnipresence. If
there's a place God is not present,

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then he's not omnipresent. Ooh,
that's that's a good theological question, right.

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So you ready, let's see if
we can figure this out. And

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we're going to listen, and we're
going to start right now. Welcome to

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00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.960
stage fast hope. I'm Steve Laws
and joined as always. If I can't

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00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:15.400
stay back and our contract's running out, no, it's a lifetime contract.

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Lifetime. You haven't read the small
print, the content. You signed it.

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We've got you for lives now.
Okay, We've thought about working out

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a trade with another team. I'll
see you in I'll see you in pull.

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00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:32.119
But uh no, you're you're stuck
with us. We're stuck with you.

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So where it hurt? Okay,
maybe they're getting ready to explain where

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they are. There's like all kinds
of people talking in the background. I

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00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:42.119
don't know their microphones are all weare? Okay, I didn't see the video

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of this. I'm going to back
that up a little bit. Because I

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think he's getting ready to explain where
they are. Maybe it will explain what's

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going on, right. So that's
the first thing I caught on, is

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what's going on going on with our
microphones? And why is there all these

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people talking in the background? Where
are they broadcasting from? Right? So

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00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:04.359
let's see if we can find out, Oh, you're stuck with us,

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for stuck with you? So we're
at Herb's house, coffee shop, Dallas,

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Texas, and more, we're in
some Juan Kent. Oh, they're

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in a coffee house. What if
it's like one of those ministry related coffee

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houses where the ministry puts together a
coffee house, so then it's like a

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business, but then they make it
text except okay, we can get into

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all the legalities of all of that. Okay, but I don't know if

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it is. But I don't know. That's that's a maybe it's cool setting.

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I don't know if I would want
to do a podcast in a coffee

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shop, what I I guess it
would be kind of cool. It would

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be kind of cool, I guess, right. I think maybe, I

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don't know. I don't know.
I would be too distracted. I think

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00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:57.279
i'd be like I'd be telling everyone, hey, be quiet, I'm trying

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to broadcast here. Okay, So
I don't know, or people in the

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coffee house would be like, boom, you staying, go away, you're

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trash, You're you're a dumpster fire, get out of my face. Okay,

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Like I probably wouldn't get heckled by
the crowd, and then I would

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not respond to being heckled in a
very godly manner. Soon then I'd be

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yelling back at them your trash.
And then and then you'd be like,

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00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:26.480
Wow, this is such a great
podcast, what a thiological podcast. This

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00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:29.640
guy has got major problems. And
well, I'd be the first to mit

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00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:30.960
that I do. All right,
but all right, let's see what's going

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00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:36.039
on. Right, So we're in
a coffeehouse, Dallas, Texas. See

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00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:38.839
the original the first email that I
read today from Dallas, Texas. Dallas

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is the theme today, Ladies and
gentlemen, Dallas is the theme. No

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to be honest, Dallas. There
are so many ministries in Dallas, Texas.

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I mean this part of the country. I mean, like I always

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the joke when you first when you
if you're in the military and you get

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stationed at diast Air Force Base,
and you go to the new newcomers briefing

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where you get your briefings about welcome
to Dallas uh Dias Air Force Base,

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00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:04.119
we welcome to the Abling, Texas
area. And then they you get all

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00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:07.880
the things about the base and about
the community. They'll say, Abling Texas

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the town where there's a church on
every street corner, right. And of

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00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:17.400
course then the young airman like wait, I got stationed on a base that

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00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:19.759
has churches on every street corner.
Is there anything else to do in this

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00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:23.519
town other than go to church?
Okay? Usually they're very very disappointed,

401
00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:27.480
disappointed and discourage that the military sent
them to a place where there's a church

402
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.880
on every street corner. But there
are. But that's this part of the

403
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:33.880
country. There's there's That's just the
way it is. And some of you

404
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.119
live in other parts of the country
that are very similar. Okay, but

405
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.160
I do know this. I can
live in a city with three Christian universities.

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00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:45.000
I can live in a city where
there's a church on every street corner,

407
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:49.640
and guess what, there's just as
much sin here as it is anywhere

408
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:55.480
else, because we're still sinners.
Okay, all right, I digress,

409
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:57.119
All right, are you ready,
Let's see, let's see, let's see

410
00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:03.440
where this is going to go.
And we're in verse five, and Kent,

411
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.559
I wish we weren't having to talk
about what we're going to look at

412
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:12.519
in this verse, but we have
to, and we need the whole truth.

413
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:18.319
And verse five I want to call
this in the Judgment. And I

414
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:26.880
think most people today just live their
life without any thought of that last day

415
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.680
of the final judgment. For them, they think the last day is their

416
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:33.400
last day here on the earth in
a hospital bed, and then they die

417
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:38.519
in their home, and then they
die and go to a better place and

418
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:45.240
go to a better place, and
that's it. And they never think about

419
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:51.599
the fact that the last day is
beyond the last day here, that the

420
00:30:51.680 --> 00:31:00.720
last day is a day of reckoning, a day of accounting with God and

421
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:08.519
standing before him and having him go
through the books and having him sort it

422
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:12.920
out. And he's been keeping impeccable
books, every thought, every word,

423
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:21.359
every deed, and will face the
record. And so he says in verse

424
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:27.279
five, just so you know,
as a Christian, will face the record.

425
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:33.240
But the record, whatever record that
is there that would bring shame or

426
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:40.480
would condemn us, we have Christ's
righteousness that takes care of all of that

427
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:45.599
record, because his obedience and his
righteousness and his perfection has been imputed to

428
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.359
our account by faith alone. All
right. Now we can talk about a

429
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.960
judgment of believers and the loss of
reward and what that means. It doesn't

430
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.079
mean we can get into that discussion. Just remember, even if you open

431
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:59.480
the books and as a Christian you
stand there and there is nothing, all

432
00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:02.920
your words burn up, you are
still saved because you are not saved by

433
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:06.559
your works. You're saved by the
works of Christ. All right, So

434
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:10.640
that's very important to remember. Okay, So let's see how we're gonna get

435
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:15.079
from Psalm one to five to Well, it's about in the judgment, So

436
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:19.160
obviously then hell is going to come
up here. This is where this is

437
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:22.000
going to go. Let's see,
then we're going to listen. We're listening

438
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:27.359
for the concept of God's presence and
hell and if they're going to expand or

439
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:34.039
articulate exactly what they're referring to.
Therefore, the wicked will not stand in

440
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:40.319
the judgment. There sinners in the
assembly of the righteous, and so can't

441
00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:45.839
This is saying these wicked, the
wicked who are like the chaff driven by

442
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:51.759
the wind. In verse four,
it says there is a judgment. It

443
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:54.599
says, we'll not stand in the
judgment. What does that mean, Well,

444
00:32:54.720 --> 00:33:00.319
it doesn't mean that they will not
appear in the judgment. They will

445
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:05.880
appear. It means they will not
stand with God's approval, and they will

446
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:15.319
not stand with his acceptance. They
will be driven like the chaff and blown

447
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:27.640
away from the judgment into an eternity
of torment and destruction. And so verse

448
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:32.920
five has to be understood in light
of verse four, that you will not

449
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:39.039
remain in the judgments. You will
be sentenced, and you will be executed,

450
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:46.279
and you will be taken away.
And he says, nor sinners in

451
00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:51.839
the assembly of the righteous. What
that means is there will be a separation.

452
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:57.759
This wicked person is in the assembly
of the righteous. He's in the

453
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:06.160
worship service, he's in a believing
family, he is surrounded by other believers.

454
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:12.960
And so he's in the assembly of
the righteous until that last day here

455
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:19.599
on earth, and then he will
be removed. And then even in the

456
00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:27.880
judgment, there will be a separation
of an unbelieving husband from a believing wife.

457
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:38.079
There will be a separation of believing
grandparents from unbelieving grandchildren, and so

458
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:47.440
the wicked will not stand or remain
in the assembly of the righteous. Okay,

459
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:52.119
Now, when I hear this,
if I was like if I was

460
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.159
if I was sitting in church and
I was listening to a sermon that was

461
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:59.639
saying these kinds of things, what
I would want to do is right before

462
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:00.760
the sermon and ended, I would
want to get up and go run out

463
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:04.360
to the parking lot real quick and
be waiting. You know why I always

464
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.519
tell everyone that you need to walk
around the church asking the people you go

465
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:09.239
to church with questions. Right.
See, if I went to church with

466
00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:12.440
you, you would get so iert
you'd be like, oh no, no,

467
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:14.599
kids, kids, kids, hurry, get to the car. Here

468
00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:17.280
comes that strange man who's going to
ask us weird theological questions. But I

469
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:22.440
love asking people who attend church questions
because sometimes it's very interesting to know what

470
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:25.639
the people in the pew actually think. They when people in the pew hear

471
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:29.960
this idea that hey, in the
end, there's going to be a separation

472
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.800
between the wicked and the righteous,
Between the wicked and the righteous, Okay,

473
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.440
explain to me what is the difference
between the wicked and the righteous.

474
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.719
Go, what is that difference between
the wicked and the righteous and that final

475
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:44.800
when they're separated in the end.
Why is some referred to wicked? Why

476
00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:49.639
is some referred to righteous? What
is the difference? Many will focus on

477
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.760
their behavior, Well, the wicked
did ungodly things. Well, the righteous

478
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.760
we don't do those ungodly things.
And the minute I hear people describe it

479
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:02.079
that way, I just want to
start yelling and screaming and going. You

480
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:09.280
miss the entire point why they are
called wicked is because they stand in their

481
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:16.679
own righteousness. They are called wicked
because man in their righteousness is wickedness before

482
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:22.440
a holy God. As no matter
how righteous a wicked, no matter how

483
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:25.519
righteous you are, you're going to
be considered wicked when you compare that righteousness

484
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:30.039
to the holiness of God. Those
are called righteous because they don't stand in

485
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:35.840
their righteousness. They stand in the
righteousness of Christ that's been imputed to them.

486
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:40.239
The dividing point between the wicked and
the righteous is that you have individuals

487
00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:45.320
who either stand in their own righteousness
or they stand in the righteousness of Christ.

488
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:49.320
To stand in your own righteousness makes
you wicked. To stand in the

489
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:53.719
righteousness of Christ makes you righteous.
The difference is imputed righteousness, not the

490
00:36:53.960 --> 00:37:05.880
actions of your life. That's the
dividing point, that's the division. Most

491
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.440
Christians say, No, No,
they're wicked because they do bad things,

492
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:10.840
and we're righteous because we do good
things. You got to be out of

493
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:15.800
your ever living mind to think that
way. You take all the good that

494
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:21.880
you can do, you're still unrighteous. I'm sorry to tell you. You're

495
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:24.039
wicked. You see, No,
but I don't do this. Well,

496
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:28.679
congratulations, you don't do this.
But you do this and this and this

497
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:30.119
and this and this, and you
don't love God with all your heart,

498
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:32.360
mind, body, and soul.
And you're not as holy as He is

499
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:36.639
holy. You are wicked. I
know you don't want to hear that this

500
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:39.639
morning, but you are. Now. You can be declared to be righteous

501
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:47.440
by faith, not based off what
you do. I mean, they are

502
00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:52.719
together right now. They may be
holding the same hymnal right now. They

503
00:37:52.800 --> 00:38:00.559
may be attending the same sporting events
right now to watch their chill employing.

504
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:07.880
But there's coming this time of polarization, this this this separation of one from

505
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:14.679
the other. And Jesus talked about
that in Matthew twenty five at his second

506
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:21.280
coming, one will be taken,
the other will be left and so kent.

507
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:30.639
This is sobering. But it adds
an element of gravitas, of gravity,

508
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:35.079
of weightiness to our Christian lives.
That that that we need to have.

509
00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:39.199
And it's a part of fostering the
fear of the Lord. That that

510
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:46.760
that we need, and it causes
us to treasure what it is to know

511
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:53.239
the Lord. Okay, we got
so much going on here, and Matthew

512
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:59.400
twenty five, he says some will
be taken, some will be left behind,

513
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:04.199
and Christ a second coming. Now
I would put forth Now he does

514
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:06.880
not give me a reference here.
He does not give me a reference here.

515
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:08.760
So you're gonna have to bear with
me here, right, because we

516
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:14.400
may have We may have, ladies
and gentlemen, a hermeneutical challenge just being

517
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:19.400
handed to us. All right,
We may have a hermeneutical challenge that was

518
00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:28.840
just presented to us. All right, hang on, okay, twenty five

519
00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:31.760
Okay, maybe twenty five will work. Okay, A twenty five may work,

520
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:38.239
yeah, okay, because twenty four
a large portion of twenty four has

521
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:43.679
to be understood to be referencing to
seventy a d twenty five. Now it

522
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:46.360
moves on, all right, So
I thought maybe possibly twenty five still had

523
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:50.760
a connection to twenty four. But
it looks like so we don't have a

524
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:52.880
hermoneutical challenge here. I think we're
good to go here, all right,

525
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:58.320
We're good to go here. Yeah, I think twenty five we definitely could

526
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.000
put forth towards the second coming.
I think, all right, So I

527
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:04.159
think we're good to go all right. I thought possibly it was a phrase

528
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.679
that would have something more to do
with seventy eighty. So we're in good

529
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:08.599
shape there, all right. Secondly, all right, so the second second,

530
00:40:08.679 --> 00:40:10.960
so that the first challenge, we
don't have a challenge. I thought

531
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:14.480
maybe we had one. But that's
okay, all right, we don't second

532
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:15.679
challenge. I will look at it
later just to make sure. But I

533
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:20.639
don't think we have the challenge that
I thought was being presented. Second challenge.

534
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:30.119
What produces the fear of the Lord? Does the concept of God judging

535
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:36.280
the wicked, the wicked being brought
down to Hell? Does that produce the

536
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:39.920
fear of the Lord? What true
like as Christians we've talked about in our

537
00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:44.239
look at proverbs, and we still
need to get back to doing some work

538
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:46.159
in proverbs as one of the things
we've been trying to work on this summer.

539
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:49.719
I know we've always got so much
going on, all right, But

540
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:52.320
one of the things we talked about
is the fear of the Lord? What

541
00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:58.280
produces it? So, if you're
like, God puts people in hell,

542
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:01.039
therefore I should fear him, I
don't. Is that because the fear of

543
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:04.360
the Lord is something a believer has, well, I don't. I'm not

544
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:08.920
worried about hell if I'm a believer
because I know that I am eternally secure

545
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:13.880
from that. So what what is
the thing that should produce the fear of

546
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:17.920
the Lord? Because what should what
should bring about reverence and awe? Is

547
00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.880
it? Is it the idea of
judgment or is it the idea of grace?

548
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:27.159
Is that the idea of God's grace
and mercy and saving a sinner and

549
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:30.000
declaring a sinner to be righteous even
though he's not. Should that bring a

550
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:37.039
greater sense of reverence and respect and
fear? The right kind of fear?

551
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:39.639
To me? Hell brings the wrong
kind of fear? Or what do you

552
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:44.519
think? What? What? What
is that? What is the thing that

553
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:51.320
motivates a proper reverence and respect from
God. I think that's a that's a

554
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:54.719
good bilological question. They're they're kind
of putting forth that judgment is what produces

555
00:41:54.760 --> 00:42:00.320
it, the fear of judgment.
I don't know. The fear of judgment

556
00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:05.679
just means I don't want to be
punished. What gave you the greater sense

557
00:42:05.719 --> 00:42:10.360
of reverence and respect for your parents? Fear of being punished or was it

558
00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:17.039
something else? Now I may not
be the right person to answer that question

559
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:22.760
right because of my background. I
don't think I could answer that question,

560
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:27.280
So maybe you can't as a as
a if you were if you grew up

561
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:30.920
in a home where you had great
reverence and respect for your parents, was

562
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:35.519
it their punishment that produced that in
you or was it something else? I'm

563
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:38.679
not that's a legitimate question. I'm
not even being sarcastic because I legitimately cannot

564
00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:44.039
answer that question because I would have
no, I wouldn't have no. Yeah,

565
00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:46.599
I would have no way to be
able to even engage in that conversation.

566
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:51.360
So you can tell me we're still
waiting to get to the question here

567
00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:54.000
that we're that we're waiting for the
point we're looking for. So let's see

568
00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:59.920
if we can find it, and
to be in the assembly of the right

569
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:06.880
righteous, but to know the Lord
who we are worshiping and sitting under his

570
00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:12.039
word. How valuable that is,
because there are many who hear the word

571
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:17.360
but are not doers of the word. Okay, this to me is the

572
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:22.360
most troubling part. To see,
the most troubling part here is to me,

573
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:24.039
it is probably not even going to
be the question about hell in God's

574
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:28.519
presence. This is the more troubling
part. He's drawing a distinction between the

575
00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:31.920
wicked and the righteous is based off
what they do and don't do. That

576
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:37.960
is ridiculous. The separation between the
wicked and the righteous is because of an

577
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:43.920
imputed righteousness, not based off a
practical righteousness. Because if you're going to

578
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:46.920
separate the wicked from the righteous based
off our actions, then everyone's going to

579
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:51.599
be in the wicked category and everyone's
going to hell. The ones are declared

580
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.159
to be righteous are declared to be
righteous by faith, Like that's the whole

581
00:43:54.519 --> 00:44:01.760
point of the of the New of
the Gospel. And so first and foremost

582
00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:06.760
of being doing the Word would be
to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

583
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.920
So can't let's let's talk about this. Well, this is sobering. And

584
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:15.880
again I think we've been talking about
this. It is. It's very simple,

585
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.679
lookn't it. There's judgment coming,
yeah, and there's hell, and

586
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:23.079
there's a heaven and a hell and
payment for sin. And when you look

587
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:28.719
at this verse five, could you
say, therefore the wicked will not withstand,

588
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:32.559
yeah, the judgment. That that's
another way that will not withstand God's

589
00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:37.320
judgment because of their sin. One
sin, sin si. Yeah, there's

590
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:43.400
no covering over their sin. And
this wicked is just a great person.

591
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:49.519
It's just one sin. Just one
sin is enough to to really condemn a

592
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:53.239
sinner. If there's just one sin, you're a sinner. And then okay,

593
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:57.039
that's good. That's good. If
there's just one sin, you're a

594
00:44:57.079 --> 00:45:00.119
sinner. But I'm gonna I'm gonna
tall, I'm gonna go I'm gonna to

595
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:02.480
back that up a little bit.
We're before we we don't even have to

596
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:07.920
commit a sin. We're guilty in
Adam. And even before we commit the

597
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:12.599
act, we're a ciner by nature. So we are we are a center.

598
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:15.280
Before we commit an act, we're
guilty in Adam, and we're a

599
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:17.440
ciner by nature. All right,
But so at this and he says,

600
00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:21.440
one get one sin. You're a
sinner. Okay, Well, I say

601
00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:22.559
you're a center before you commit that, I think you, I think I

602
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:25.599
don't think you become a sinner because
I say, oh, see that,

603
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:30.440
I may have a problem with this. You're not a sinner because you commit

604
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:34.880
one sin. You commit one sin
because you are a sinner. A center

605
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:38.000
is what you are. Sin is
what you do. You don't become a

606
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:42.239
center by what you do. You
sin. You do because of what you

607
00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:45.199
are. Right, you don't become
what you are by what you do.

608
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:50.320
You do because of what you are. We sin because of what we are.

609
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:53.440
This this seems to have them.
Oh that's almost say I know he

610
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:58.199
would not be a semi Appellagian in
any way, shape or form. No,

611
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:00.840
you you you commit the sin because
you are a sinner. You don't

612
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:05.880
become a center by committing sin.
You're a sinner. You commit sin because

613
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:10.280
you are a sinner. That oh, that's Sillologically, they're they're they're speaking

614
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:15.239
it backwards. But if even if
you go with their almost it's almost a

615
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:17.440
Pelagian understanding. Or you're a sinner
if you commit a sin. No,

616
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.239
you commit a sin because you are
a sinner. But even if we throw

617
00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:25.000
out what I believe is a more
proper understanding of sin, even if you

618
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:28.280
go with his view, Okay,
if you commit one sin, you're a

619
00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:30.639
Oh, I can't even say it
that way. You commit one sin,

620
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:32.519
you're a sinner. No, that
is so, I can't that is that

621
00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:36.960
is Oh, that's going to drive
me to drinking. Okay, No,

622
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.000
you commit one sin because you are
a sinner. Right, let's just make

623
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:42.559
sure we just we can't back that
up. But even if you go with

624
00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:45.480
their way of stating it, which
I would never state it that way,

625
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:49.800
even if you go with their way, well, then okay. The distinction

626
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.079
between the wicked and the righteous isn't
because one commits one sin and one doesn't

627
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:59.599
commit one sin. The difference between
the wicked and the righteous is not because

628
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:02.280
one does the word and one doesn't
do the word. The difference is because

629
00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:10.159
the righteous are righteous by faith because
of an imputed righteousness. And then this

630
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:16.239
word sinners and wicked is that synonymous? Yeah, it's parallelism. And and

631
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:25.239
the wicked refers to their their nature, they're what they are on the inside.

632
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:30.280
Sinner refers to the choices that they
make. So these are unforgiven sinners.

633
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:37.239
Yeah, without Christ, absolutely,
and it's a double whammy there.

634
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:43.559
Yeah, I mean there's no escaping
this. So Steve, how does then?

635
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:50.880
Why don't doesn't everybody? I mean, with this looming judgment of heaven

636
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:57.000
and Hell, why aren't people more
concerned? Why? Why does why does

637
00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:00.519
it water off the duck's back by
so many of our love of the ones

638
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:05.480
people we know, people that come
to church all the time, we sit

639
00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:09.719
there and pray in the elders meetings
for my so and so's coming. They're

640
00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:15.239
not saved, they think they are. Why why don't people wake up?

641
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:22.760
What's the what's the issue? I
think it begins with there's so very little

642
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:31.559
preaching on judgment, so little preaching
on hell, so little preaching on really

643
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:37.320
that last day when the books will
be open and the Book of Life will

644
00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:43.360
be open, that there's just no
preaching on it today, even in Bible

645
00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:47.679
preaching churches. I mean, how
little we hear about it. Let me

646
00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:53.519
remind us of this, Kent,
Jesus had more to say about hell than

647
00:48:53.559 --> 00:49:00.440
he did about heaven. Wow,
Now, just ponder that Jesus had more

648
00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:07.639
to say about Hell than anyone else
in the Bible. So just those two

649
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:15.519
sentences, just those two statements should
awaken us to the fact that we need

650
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:22.159
to be preaching on this and teaching
on this and thinking about this and measuring

651
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:28.599
our lives by this. That's that's
number one, and and I think number

652
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:35.880
two. People just don't want to
hear it. Even when I preach on

653
00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:43.360
Hell. Even people who are close
to me, will will say, did

654
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.920
you really have to, you know, preach on this, almost like I

655
00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:53.159
just ruined Sunday. Now, that
is an interesting point. I know this

656
00:49:53.360 --> 00:50:00.960
to be somewhat true from what I
witnessed. Okay, I'll just I'll just

657
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:02.760
try to tell the story. I've
told the story many times, but it

658
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:07.920
fits perfectly. So you know,
as many of you know, Christian radio

659
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:10.480
playing a massive part of my Christian
life, right because when I became a

660
00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:14.880
Christian, I realized that there's a
thing called Christian radio stations. Now,

661
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:16.480
now, the first one I ever
discovered was before I became a Christian.

662
00:50:16.519 --> 00:50:21.039
It was music, just a little
preaching. But then I realized that there

663
00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:22.760
were other stations that had more,
like, you know, actual teaching.

664
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:25.440
So I told the story before that, you know, after I became a

665
00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:30.519
Christian, about three notebooks, because
there were three programs that came on every

666
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:35.519
day on Christian radio. Right,
there was John MacArthur, there was Chuck

667
00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:37.760
Swindall, and there was Chuck Smith. Right, So I had a MacArthur

668
00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:40.679
notebook, a swind All notebook,
and a Chuck Smith notebook. I always

669
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:45.039
make the joke that the Chuck Smith
notebook I never wrote anything in it because

670
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:49.440
his preaching bored me absolutely to death. He seemed like he had no I

671
00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:52.840
got nothing from it. Swind All
taught me all about application, application,

672
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:58.159
application, MacArthur taught me all about
exposition, exposition, expounding the word all

673
00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:00.960
right. Now, of course I
was also being very much taught lordship salvation

674
00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:04.239
for MacArthur. We you know,
we can get into all that discussion.

675
00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:07.519
So Christian radio played a big part
in my life. So when I joined

676
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:12.599
the United States Military and ended up
in Omaha, Nebraska, I immediately looked

677
00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:16.320
for the Christian radio stations. Right. One was Family Radio, which actually

678
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:20.840
broadcasted out of Iowa, but we
could pick it up in Omaha, and

679
00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:23.639
that was Harold Camping. I became
a student of, you know, the

680
00:51:23.960 --> 00:51:28.559
of Harold Camping school, and then
we know all the craziness that went down

681
00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:30.360
with Harold Camping nineteen ninety four predicted
the end of the world. Okay,

682
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:35.159
all the crazy stuff that went down
there. Okay, but I did I

683
00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:37.480
did attend to school, okay,
right, So all right, Then there

684
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:43.320
was I think it was KG KGB. I okay, it was something like

685
00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:46.280
you always he always wanted the KGB. You always wanted to connect it to

686
00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:50.519
Russia. But I think it was
like KGBI, something along those lines.

687
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:53.599
And it was a part of Grace
University. Was on campus of Grace University

688
00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:58.719
where I was a student at Grace
University. So I knew that radio station

689
00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:04.880
really well. And they played lots
of teaching programs all right. So one

690
00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:09.239
of the teaching programs they had on
there was Charles Stanley in Touch. Well

691
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:13.559
at that time, in Touch,
what you could do is you could contact

692
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:19.199
in Touch and they would send you
their monthly devotional magazine for free. I

693
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:22.199
loved that, the fact that they
did that. So I had the magazine,

694
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:24.719
and the magazine corresponded with the radio
program. Right. So there was

695
00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:27.920
a day coming up. I'm like, ooh, it's going to be on

696
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:30.400
the Doctrine of Hell. All right, I got my notebook, I got

697
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:35.360
my in Touch devotional guide. I'm
ready for the program to begin on radio.

698
00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:37.840
I know, I know, back
before you could just listen to anything

699
00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:40.000
on the internet. Okay, so
you had to be there at a specific

700
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:45.679
time. I'm ready to go.
What in the world it was a sermon

701
00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:50.519
on something completely different? So I
contacted the radio station, like, well,

702
00:52:50.559 --> 00:52:52.840
we made the decision we didn't necessarily
want to broadcast that. We felt

703
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:58.320
it was a little too heavy,
it was too negative. And I'm like,

704
00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:01.639
so a Christian radio station did not
want to have broadcast a message on

705
00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:07.760
Hell on their radio station because it
was too negative. That was in the

706
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:14.519
nineteen nineties, ladies and gentlemen.
So there is some truth to what they're

707
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:16.960
saying that many in the church don't
want to hear about the Doctrine of Hell

708
00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:22.159
and people don't like it. And
I look, on one end, I

709
00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:25.679
understand why nobody likes it. Okay, Look, but if we're gonna start

710
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:30.559
getting rid of we're gonna start start
getting rid of doctrines or things that we

711
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:34.199
don't like. Get in line.
I've got a list of things I want

712
00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:37.320
to get rid of. All right, okay, so that is fascinating that

713
00:53:37.480 --> 00:53:42.400
he thinks that's the issue. We
still haven't gotten to the question at hand.

714
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:45.719
We'll see, it's got to be
getting close, let's see. Or

715
00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:53.039
I just ruined our gathering together,
as if I just poured cold water on

716
00:53:53.159 --> 00:54:00.239
a hot fire and put out our
joy and our peace. We want the

717
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:06.679
good, but we don't want the
rest of the story, and so books

718
00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:13.519
like how to Have Your Best Life
Now it just totally cuts us off from

719
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:22.320
the reality that there is looming on
the horizon and inescapable appointment that every man

720
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:29.280
has with judgment. You know,
I think of two things real quick.

721
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:32.960
On an why out of time?
This reminds me so much of I think

722
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:38.840
it's Matthew. It's in the days
of Noah. Nobody'd ever just because you've

723
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:43.079
never seen it before. Nobody ever
seen the flood. Yeah, yeah,

724
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:45.119
so that's what If we've never seen
it. It's a good thought, good

725
00:54:45.159 --> 00:54:49.239
picture. We've never seen it,
then we don't believe it. Here's this

726
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:52.360
man building an arc in the middle
of the desert. He's the only one

727
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:54.639
that he's miles and miles away from
any body of water. But when the

728
00:54:54.679 --> 00:54:58.480
flood of judgment came, they believed
it. So, yeah, Steve,

729
00:54:58.760 --> 00:55:04.639
finish up with this. Where does
Hell come from? Who is in control

730
00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:08.519
of Hell? Why is Hell there? Yeah? Matthew twenty five forty one

731
00:55:08.840 --> 00:55:15.119
says that God created Hell for the
devil and his angels, but it's also

732
00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:24.880
the final destination of every unbeliever.
Now, okay Matthew twenty five forty one

733
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:30.239
does say, then then yeah,
Matthew twenty five forty one. Then he

734
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:34.159
will also say to those on the
left hand, depart from me, you

735
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:37.400
cursed into the everlasting fire prepared for
the devil and his angels. Now,

736
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:43.840
a lot of people read that is
to say Hell was only created for Satan

737
00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:46.280
and the fallen angels. That's all
was created for. God never intended for

738
00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:51.440
anyone to go to Hell. That
when I hear preachers say that, I

739
00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:54.440
sometimes and I'm not saying that's what
he's saying, but I always I always

740
00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:58.519
just like just shake my head.
I'm like, So, the all knowing

741
00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:00.880
God created a place called Hell,
but he never intended anyone else to go

742
00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:05.119
there. Before he created it,
he knew who was going to be there.

743
00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:07.920
What do you mean, like he
did he I'm gonna create this only

744
00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:10.519
for Satan and the fallen angels.
That's it, Well, then why not

745
00:56:10.679 --> 00:56:19.800
put them there immediately? When they
fell the second Satan and the angels rebelled,

746
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:22.159
put him in hell. Into story, they cannot touch God's creation.

747
00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:25.800
If he doesn't want anyone else to
go to Hell, then don't allow Satan

748
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:30.800
to bring sin into the world,
corrupt humankind so that they're all born sinners

749
00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:37.480
already destined for hell. To say
that God never intended anyone to go to

750
00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:42.559
Hell, it's ridiculous because before he
created the world, he knew exactly every

751
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:45.679
single person who would be in Hell. You can't be like, oh,

752
00:56:45.719 --> 00:56:46.719
I didn't intend for all of that, and one went to Hell. I

753
00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:49.719
didn't intend. Oh no, No, I didn't. Oh man, I

754
00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:52.880
didn't intend for Oh man, I
can't so many people keep going there and

755
00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:55.679
I didn't intend any of this.
There's like a million there now and I

756
00:56:55.719 --> 00:57:00.960
didn't end I didn't intend one.
Now there's too many. Oh man,

757
00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:07.559
How can I fix this problem?
I can't stand that that's just saying that

758
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:10.440
it was made for the Satan and
the angels. I don't think that that's

759
00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:15.480
a statement indicating that it wasn't made
for anyone else or anything else. I

760
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:17.559
think it's just saying, hey,
you're gonna go to the place that was

761
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:22.440
designed also for these individuals, meaning
this is a place of severe judgment,

762
00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:29.239
because even Satan and the angels are
destined for this place. So I know

763
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:30.840
I'm not saying that's what he's saying, but so many preachers state it that

764
00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:38.679
way. It was never intended for
people. God, God built something,

765
00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:44.079
and it's doing something he never intended
it to do. Because what God lost

766
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:46.880
complete control of the plot of the
narrative, Like I, that just puts

767
00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:52.400
God like seemingly confused and a failure. And I don't think that's the way

768
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.960
it's understood. Now. This raises
lots of deep philosophical questions that are problematic.

769
00:57:57.800 --> 00:58:00.559
Why would God create people knowing they're
gonna go to Hell? Especially then

770
00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:04.559
you can't say he never intended them
to go If he knew they were going

771
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:07.800
to go and he didn't do anything
to prevent them from going. He said,

772
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:08.760
well, he did do something to
prevent them from going, he sent

773
00:58:08.840 --> 00:58:13.880
his son, But he knows those
before they're created that they're not going to

774
00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:15.559
believe, So why didn't even let
them be born? Like I mean,

775
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:21.360
there's just so many Oh, we
get into never ending philosophical issues here,

776
00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:23.639
all right, But maybe we're going
to get closer now to the question that

777
00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:32.199
I received in the email. God
is so holy that no sinner can enter

778
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:37.960
into God's presence. They cannot enter
in his presence, they cannot remain in

779
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:43.760
his presence. I mean, Satan
was once an angel in heaven, and

780
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:47.239
sin was found in him pride,
and he was cast out of heaven.

781
00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:54.800
And so Hell is the repository for
every one who is a sinner and who

782
00:58:55.000 --> 00:59:02.960
has sinned and has no forgiveness as
their sins. And a holy God has

783
00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:09.480
created Hell, A flawlessly perfect God
has created Hell. So there's no apology.

784
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:15.519
God's punishing. God's the one inflicting
the punishment. God. Okay,

785
00:59:15.599 --> 00:59:20.639
God created hell that I'm glad that
they're stating that. Now. People may

786
00:59:20.679 --> 00:59:22.239
not like it, but he created
it all right. Now, I'm going

787
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:27.679
to back this up a little bit
because I think this is where the listener

788
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:31.039
heard this and God, well I'm
not saying confused, but definitely their questions

789
00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:32.920
were a rose. I'm going to
back this up a little bit. Here

790
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:38.960
we go, God's the one inflicting
the punishment. God is the one inflicting

791
00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:43.719
the punishment. It's not a place
of self, you know, mutilization,

792
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:49.239
self inflicted pain. And the devil
is not the lord of hell. Wow.

793
00:59:50.199 --> 00:59:57.320
No, we know from Revelation fourteen
verses nine and ten that even Christ

794
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:02.480
by his spirit, will be in
in hell and be the executor of his

795
01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:12.320
wrath and judgment forever and ever and
ever. And you would only hope that

796
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:19.599
God is not in hell inflicting this
wrath, but he is. He's omnipresent.

797
01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:22.840
There's no place where God's spirit does
not dwell, whether in heaven,

798
01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:28.320
on earth, or under the earth
in hell. And so it's a horrible

799
01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:32.559
place. It's a place of torment. And you should fear the one who

800
01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:37.679
has power to cast into hell.
And so that would be true of your

801
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:42.480
life. If you're not a believer
in Jesus Christ, what do you have

802
01:00:42.559 --> 01:00:45.920
to do to go to hell?
The answer is nothing. If you're not

803
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:50.119
a Christian, you're already headed there. Just to just continue to live the

804
01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:54.760
life you're living and do not respond
to the free offer of the gospel in

805
01:00:54.920 --> 01:01:00.840
Jesus Christ. And that's where this
river of sin is flown and will take

806
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:06.840
you into the pit of hell itself. And so someone needs to tell you

807
01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:10.039
the truth. Someone needs to look
you square in the eyes and tell you

808
01:01:10.239 --> 01:01:16.119
you're headed to hell if you do
not believe in God's son, Jesus Christ.

809
01:01:17.480 --> 01:01:23.199
And so may God have mercy upon
you. And He will have mercy

810
01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:30.360
upon the one who repents of his
sin and turns to Jesus Christ and believes

811
01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:35.559
in him. May God do this
in your life. If you're listening to

812
01:01:35.719 --> 01:01:40.840
this and you are without Christ,
he has ears to hear, let him

813
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:49.559
hear blessings to you, but they're
all in Christ. Okay, now,

814
01:01:50.039 --> 01:01:54.119
so this brought up the question is
God in hell? Is God in hell?

815
01:01:54.159 --> 01:01:58.159
And what they're what they're stating is
and I've already alluded to it.

816
01:01:58.679 --> 01:02:01.159
This is the basic concept. God
is omnipresence, So he has to be

817
01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:06.280
present in some way, shape or
form. If he's not in Hell to

818
01:02:06.639 --> 01:02:10.159
in Sum's capacity, then God is
not omnipresent. Then you're destroying one of

819
01:02:10.199 --> 01:02:15.000
the major attributes of God. He
is present everywhere, no matter where you

820
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:19.480
go, He's there, but he
is presence in Hell. Is only there

821
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:24.559
in his His presence is there to
inflict wrath and condemnation. He is pouring

822
01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:30.280
out his wrath upon those who are
there. Think of it this way.

823
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:37.559
At the Cross, God poured out
his wrath on Christ, and Christ propitiated

824
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:40.840
that wrath for all those who believe. So for all those who believe,

825
01:02:42.639 --> 01:02:45.079
Jesus drank the full cup of God's
wrath. For me, there is no

826
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:49.320
wrath left for me. I have
to I don't fear God's wrath. I

827
01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:52.159
don't fear his condemnation. It's all
been taken care of me and Christ and

828
01:02:52.360 --> 01:02:57.559
then Christ imputed his perfect righteousness and
holiness to me. All right, But

829
01:02:57.800 --> 01:03:04.599
for those in hell Christ, that
wrath has not been propitiated for them.

830
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:07.840
I don't want to get into particular
redemption and get into whole discussion about that,

831
01:03:07.960 --> 01:03:10.920
but we can have a thiological discussion
there, which would be controversial.

832
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:14.960
But we won't get into that right
now. But let me we'll just state

833
01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:19.519
it this way. In hell,
the wrath of God is manifest, it's

834
01:03:19.599 --> 01:03:22.960
present. So God is there in
a sense. His presence is there because

835
01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:29.559
he's omnipresent, but it's his presence
of wrath of condemnation. He's not there

836
01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:34.119
suffering, he's there inflicting. He
is in a sense, he is lord

837
01:03:34.199 --> 01:03:37.639
over that which he has created.
He created Hell, and his presence is

838
01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:42.800
there not one of love or mercy. It's the presence of wrath and condemnation

839
01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:50.280
because he's omnipresent. That is how
we understand it. I think that's that's

840
01:03:50.360 --> 01:03:52.920
what they're trying to say. Now, they only had, you know,

841
01:03:52.800 --> 01:03:59.000
fifteen minutes max, so obviously they
could not get into great detail about that,

842
01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:01.840
but that's where they were going.
I know it can sound confusing because

843
01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:05.280
the one hour I say, Hell
is the separation of us from God.

844
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:11.719
Hell is a christless eternity. Well, to be fair, Hell is where

845
01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:17.320
you experience the presence of God's wrath
and condemnation upon you. You are separated

846
01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:21.639
from God's love, You're separated from
God's mercy, You're separated from a relationship

847
01:04:21.719 --> 01:04:26.559
with God, but you are very
much facing the presence of God and his

848
01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:30.079
wrath and condemnation. I think that's
a better way to explain it. So

849
01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:34.719
there is a separation from God,
but you're not separated from his presence as

850
01:04:34.800 --> 01:04:43.320
far as his wrath and condemnation is
concerned. I hope that makes sense.

851
01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:45.760
That may be a little confusing,
you just remember he's omnipresent. He's got

852
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:48.440
to be present everywhere at all times. He has to be, or he's

853
01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:53.199
not omnipresent. If there's a place
he's not at, he's not omnipresent.

854
01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:57.280
So he has to be present now. So then what does that mean.

855
01:04:57.400 --> 01:05:00.159
Well, he's not obviously there to
save or to give mercy a grace.

856
01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:04.960
He is there to pour out wrath
and condemnation. Hell is a place where

857
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:14.480
you experience the wrath of God for
all eternity because you have not put your

858
01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:16.159
faith in Jesus Christ. Because if
you put your faith in Jesus Christ,

859
01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:23.800
then you're in God's presence in heaven
without the wrath of God because it's all

860
01:05:23.880 --> 01:05:30.119
been satisfied in Christ. I hope
that helps. I know it could be

861
01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:35.159
a little confusing, especially considery and
this is why and preaching we have to

862
01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:40.119
be very precise in our language because
we say something that people in the pew

863
01:05:40.199 --> 01:05:44.199
pick up on it. Oh,
hell is the you know, the absence

864
01:05:44.239 --> 01:05:46.800
of God's presence. It's the separation
from God. And then you hear on

865
01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:49.480
something else, you know, like, wait a minute, it seems to

866
01:05:49.519 --> 01:05:53.840
contradict what you said. It's when
we got to be precise in our theological

867
01:05:53.960 --> 01:05:57.440
language, or it leads to theological
confusion. Now I'm not always precise in

868
01:05:57.519 --> 01:06:02.760
my language. And there they are
trying. They're just trying to explain his

869
01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:09.239
omni presence in regards to Hell.
So all right, there's some other things

870
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:12.480
there that would bother me a little
bit. It sounds like they're they kind

871
01:06:12.519 --> 01:06:15.440
of clarified a little bit of what
I was concerned with, but they still

872
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:19.679
didn't draw that proper distinction between the
wicked and the righteous. But all right,

873
01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:23.480
and again, let's just ma I'm
going to be very precise here.

874
01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:29.039
You do not become a sinner by
committing a sin. You commit one sin

875
01:06:29.639 --> 01:06:32.840
because you are a sinner. Don't
ever forget that, right, You don't

876
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:38.079
start off not a sinner, right, I'll never forget my argument. I

877
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:42.599
had sitting in a parking lot with
a good one of my friends. At

878
01:06:42.639 --> 01:06:46.079
that time. I was a Lutheran. He was Baptist, right. I

879
01:06:46.199 --> 01:06:49.679
used to be Baptist. I used
to go to that church with him when

880
01:06:50.079 --> 01:06:54.199
I was a teenager. But I
had moved on to become a Lutheran because

881
01:06:54.199 --> 01:06:57.440
well, the Baptist wouldn't to me
deal with any theological issues. So I

882
01:06:57.480 --> 01:06:59.880
became a Lutheran. So we're sitting
in a parking lot. We're having an

883
01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:02.320
argument, right, So he and
now he learned this from his pastor,

884
01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:06.400
and I learned the same thing from
his pastor. He took out a sheet

885
01:07:06.440 --> 01:07:10.639
of paper from his notebook and we
grab one. Here. I'm just gonna

886
01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:17.000
tear one out, right, So
he tore out a sheet of paper from

887
01:07:17.039 --> 01:07:20.440
his notebook. Right, he held
it up and see you see this paper.

888
01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:28.239
It's clean, it's not marked up, it's nice, nice, complete

889
01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:31.039
piece of paper. And he said, that is how we are born.

890
01:07:31.639 --> 01:07:39.559
And then we come along and we
we mess it all up. And I'm

891
01:07:39.639 --> 01:07:43.800
like, your whole understanding of humanity
is completely wrong. Man. We're not

892
01:07:44.079 --> 01:07:47.480
born like that clean piece of paper. We're born like that crumbled up piece

893
01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:51.840
of paper. We're born a sinner. We're born messed up. You're giving

894
01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:56.719
me Palyagianism, you're giving me semi
pelagian He had no clue what those things

895
01:07:56.760 --> 01:08:00.519
were. I'm like, your pastor's
teaching you Pelagia's Plagianism. You're not born

896
01:08:01.079 --> 01:08:04.920
without sin, You're born a center. That is what you are. You

897
01:08:05.039 --> 01:08:09.559
are a sinner by nature, you're
a sinner. That's who you are,

898
01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:13.239
and therefore your sin is a reflection
of who you are. You did not

899
01:08:13.320 --> 01:08:16.600
become a sinner by sinning. You
sin because you were You were a sinner.

900
01:08:16.720 --> 01:08:20.119
He had no, he never He
completely rejected it outright and said I

901
01:08:20.239 --> 01:08:24.720
was wrong and didn't agree with it. And yeah, I'm like, okay,

902
01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:27.319
well, then go run off for
your Pallagianism. But I'm not a

903
01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:32.520
Pelagianism Plagian. I reject Pelagianism semi
Pelagianism, and you should too, because

904
01:08:32.560 --> 01:08:36.760
your whole understanding of man is wrong. We don't become sinners by sinning.

905
01:08:39.199 --> 01:08:45.840
We sin because we're sinners. And
when they made that kind of comment,

906
01:08:45.039 --> 01:08:49.279
you become a sinner by committing one
sin. That's just completely theologically in error.

907
01:08:49.279 --> 01:08:51.680
I don't think they actually meant that. I think that they misspoke.

908
01:08:51.760 --> 01:08:57.279
I don't, I know, I'm
almost I know Lawson is not a He

909
01:08:57.439 --> 01:09:01.720
rejects Pelagianism and semi Polagianism, so
I think he just dismisspoke. I know.

910
01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:06.039
There's just no way. There's just
no way. So that jumped out

911
01:09:06.119 --> 01:09:10.520
more to me than the other.
But hopefully that answered the question. All

912
01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:15.399
right, that was sixty nine minutes
to answer one simple question. See that's

913
01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:18.680
why you always get the long answer
with me. All right, News I

914
01:09:18.920 --> 01:09:25.199
F at yahoo dot com. News
I F at Yahoo dot com. Everyone

915
01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:29.760
have a great, great day,
a great holiday weekend. If it's that

916
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.199
for you, hopefully you have a
great time. Hopefully it's wonderful for you.

917
01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:39.239
And well remember your challenge. It's
supposed to be listening to random live

918
01:09:39.319 --> 01:09:42.600
webcast on the sermon's two point oh
app If you hear something, see something,

919
01:09:43.119 --> 01:09:45.840
email me what you're hearing seeing and
what questions you may have, and

920
01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:48.479
I'll do my very best to answer
this to the original emailer. I hope

921
01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:51.720
this was helpful. I feel like
maybe I didn't do a great job.

922
01:09:53.319 --> 01:09:57.880
But the problem is all everything else
took so long to get to the actual

923
01:09:57.960 --> 01:10:00.319
question, and that by the time
I got to the question, we were

924
01:10:00.359 --> 01:10:02.560
out of time. But I don't
know what else I can say, but

925
01:10:02.720 --> 01:10:06.119
please email me follow up questions and
I will do my very best to try

926
01:10:06.159 --> 01:10:12.960
to respond. Thank you for listening. Everyone, have a great day. God bless