March 7, 2025

Cotton Mather: Arguing His Innocence

Cotton Mather: Arguing His Innocence

Christians seem committed to arguing Cotton Mather was innocent. We listen to someone argue for his innocence

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Christians seem committed to arguing Cotton Mather was innocent. We listen to someone argue for his innocence

WEBVTT

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective.

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This is the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central.

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Good afternoon, everyone. It is Friday, March the seventh, twenty

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twenty five. It is currently two seven pm Central Time,

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and I am coming to you from the Theology Central

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studio located right here in Abilene, Texas. And I'm going

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to warn you right now. I'm just gonna go ahead

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and warn you right now. Most likely a large majority

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of the people who are going to listen to this broadcast,

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whether live or whether later on some podcasting app the

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majority of you are probably strongly going to disagree with me.

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You're going to think that I am wrong. You're going

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to think I'm on the wrong side of history. You're

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going to accuse me. May you may even say I'm

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in league with the devil. You may say that you know,

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I'm on the side of Satanist and I'm on the

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side of the demonic, and I'm on the side of witches,

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and I'm evil. You may go so far to make

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some of those claims, and you have every right to

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make those claims. I think you're completely wrong, but you

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have the right to make those claims. But from this studio.

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If you've ever learned anything about the theology Central podcast

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is I tend to find myself in the minority of

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the minority of the minority, and I tend to find

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myself at odds with a large portion of Christianity. I

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just think, time and time again, the way scriptures are handled.

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So many logical fallacies, the logical errors, hermeneutical errors, factual errors.

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I mean, so many issues. So I tend to find

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myself in the minority. Do I want to be in

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the minority? Well, now this is where I have to

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be honest with myself. I've got to be honest here, right,

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because my natural instinct is to always like if there

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is a crowd and the crowd says we're going right,

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I'm going left, just out of I can't follow the

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I tend to do that, and I don't. I know

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that's not always a good thing, right, because sometimes you're

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just going against the majority to go against the majority,

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and that's nothing. You're not really being rebellious, and you're

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not really being an anti conformist. You're just now you're

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just being childish. So there's a like, I don't ever

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want to be just go with the crowd because the

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crowd says go that way. But I don't want to

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just go against the crowd just because I'm going against

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the crowd. I want to maintain that anti conformist kind

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of stand on my own two feet mentality, but in

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a right way. And you know, I've struggled with you

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know that sometimes. But I believe in this case that

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it's not me just going against the majority. I think

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in this case, I'm standing for history and I'm standing

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for what is right, and we're going to dig into

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this and hopefully it's going to be beneficial. Now we

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have been talking about the Salem witch trials. Many of

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you know that I have this like weird connection to

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the city of Salem. I can't don't really explain it.

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From the first time I drove into that city, I

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was just like, this is the most amazing place I've

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ever been in my life. And everything that happened in

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Salem during the Salem witch Trials. I have studied and

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studied and studied and read about. I have visited Salem

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multiple times. I'll be visiting it, visiting it multiple more

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times hopefully in my life. I love the place. I'll

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be there this year. This year, I'll be taking another

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trip to Salem. I love everything about the place and

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the history. It bothers me. I don't love the history

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of Salem because I think, ooh, this is cool. I

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am intrigued by it because it bothers me so much.

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I get emotional about it because it just screams at

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everything that can be wrong with the institutional Church, with

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Christianity at large, with the craziness that sometimes you find

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within Christians. Sometimes when you talk to Christians, I'm like,

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you're about five seconds away from another Salem witch trial?

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Are what is going on with you? And whenever you

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try to explain that, people just look at you like

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whatever whatever. But that's why I think the lessons of

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Salem are so important. And when you talk about Salem,

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you talk about the Salem witch trials. Obviously you're gonna

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be talking about the Puritans. Now if you know that

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there are many Christians who are very vocal with their

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support of the Puritans, and the Puritans were misunderstood and

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the Puritans are attacked and it was wrong the way

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people treat the Puritans. And it's like, okay, I understand

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you may want to correct some mis understanding are wrong

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attitudes towards the Puritans. But at the same time, you

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cannot try to stand against how what you perceive to

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be wrong attitudes towards the Puritans by you defending and

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justifying that which I think is indefensible and is just wrong. Look,

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you can whenever you look back in church history. I

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don't care the group, I don't care who the group is,

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I don't care who the church father is. You know what,

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you're going to find that they were sinful people. You

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know what, They're going to find, things that they did wrong,

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things that they believe that were horrible, justification justifying things

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that were horrible. We should not be shocked, we should

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not be surprised by that, because they're just like us.

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You look at the church today, filled with sinners. We

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do sinful things. The problem with Christianity we can never

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just admit how sinful we all are. We always have

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to have this pretend that we are all or new

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creatures in Christ, all things have passed away, all things

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have become new again. Not applying that to our positional reality,

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but a try applying it to our practical reality, which

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that is not our practical reality. So Christians love to

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defend the Puritans. Well, whenever you talk about Salem, you're

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going to talk about the Puritans. And whenever you talk

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about Salem, you have to talk about one specific Puritan,

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and that is Cotton Mather. You have to talk about

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Cotton Mather. You have to. You can't just overlook his involvement.

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But for many Christians, if I say Mather and his

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his influence, well again I'll just say, Cotton Mather is

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the architecture, the architect of fear. Cotton Mather wrote the blueprint.

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Cotton Mather wrote the script for the sale for Salem,

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and they followed it to the very letter, down to

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the punctuation marks. Now others will say, how dare you

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He wasn't the architect of fear. He didn't write the blueprint,

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he didn't write the script. Cotton Mather had nothing to

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do with Salem. And whenever people say that, I just

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get furious because it's just not accurate. I believe that

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we have and all of the studies that we are

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not studies. I have handled this series on Salem a

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little differently. I've done things more in a like, in

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a narrative style. There's good with that. I think I

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think it's been good. I think I whenever you're going

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to do something in a narrative style, I think you

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have to be you've got to be very prepared to

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do it. I mean, I'm trying to do a narrative

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style live right. A lot of times when PE put

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together a podcast, like in a narrative kind of style,

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you're doing a lot of editing, first take, second take,

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third take, doing things in segments, putting all the segments together,

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you know, having some music. And I don't do all

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of that type of production here for this podcast one

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it would cost a lot of money. And then yeah,

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so I don't do all of that, but I still

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tried to do it in a narrative style where there

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were I think, I think in some ways it was

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good that I did that. Some ways I could look

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at maybe the ways I could improve when I do that.

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But doing it as in a narrative style, okay, great.

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I think I think it's been good. But I think

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in that narrative style, I think we have been able

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to clearly prove, to clearly demonstrate. I don't even think

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it's a I don't even want to say it's a

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hypotheses I think it's I think I was able to

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prove with historical fact, Cotton Mather was the architect. Cotton

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Mather wrote the blueprint, he wrote the script. You cannot

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compare what was going on in Boston and the words

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of Cotton Mather to what was going on in Salem,

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and I go, there's a connection. And what's the connection?

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I don't know. Maybe because the book that Cotton Mather

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wrote happened to be in the very library of the

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pastor who it was his daughter and his niece who

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made the first accusations in Salem, and it was almost

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like they were reading from the book. I mean, come

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on now, I mean that's just a historical fact, that's

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not speculation. So I think we have demonstrated that. But

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even though we have demonstrated that, I cannot, in good conscience,

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if I'm going to be fair, try to pretend that, well,

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my view is the only view. Know, the majority of

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Christianity disagrees with me. They will say Cotton Mather was innocent.

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That Cotton Mather is you know, basically, he's been framed,

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he's been maligned. It's people have bore false witness against

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Cotton Mather, and that it is wrong. So we are

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going to listen to and I don't know how many

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episodes we're going to do this to Christians defend Cotton Mather,

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and then you, as the listener, you can decide. You

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obviously know which side I fall on. I don't believe

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he was a hero of the faith. I believe he's

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the villain and a horrible story. And if you didn't

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hear the last broadcast what he did at the execution

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of Reverend Burrows, I don't know. I don't even know

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how you can listen to that story and go, well,

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Cotton Mather was such a good guy. Now I'm sorry.

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Now he may have been good from when we speak

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of goodness in a very subjective way, from a human perspective,

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you may well, he did this good, and he did

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this good. I'm just saying in that very moment when

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it comes to the Salem witch trials and his attitude

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after nothing good about it, and of course not in

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the side of God, none of us are good. We

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are all still sinners. So we are going to explore

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how Christians defend Cotton Mather, and we're going to listen

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to it. Now I'm going to be taking in this episode,

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where's just gonna borrow from one one sermon taken from

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the sermon audio platform. What I did is which sermon

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audio typed in Cotton Mather and immediately started to seeing

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all these defenses of him, and I was like, this

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is insane. Who like, just go visit Salem. I don't

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know how you can visit Salem and drive out of

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there going, Hey, that Cotton Mather guy, he's really he

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was great. All these other Puritans were messed up. But

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I think a lot of Christians pull into Salem and

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pull out and they're like, I think the Puritans were

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the good guys. I think the Puritans were great. I

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think we need to kill some more witches. Okay, maybe

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maybe that's a little bit of hyperbole, but I don't

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know how. You I don't know how. I don't I

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don't know. I don't get it. I don't get it.

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But you know what, I've got to listen to their defense.

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I gotta listen to their defense. And because I could

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be wrong, so obviously I'm appearing to be very dogmatic

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because I feel very dogmatic. I believe I have proven

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it without a shadow of the doubt that Cotton Mather

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is not the hero in this story. I believe I've

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made it clear, and I believe you can't separate him

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like he had nothing to do with it. I think

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that's the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my life.

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I think he's the he's the architect, he's the blueprint creator,

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he's the script writer. So but you can't. If all

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you do is read and listen to that which agrees

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with you, then you can never be corrected, and you

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can never be challenged, and you can never grow. So

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what I did is I grabbed the first one and said,

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here we go. Now, I don't know in which direction

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all of these are going. Well, this one, we're just

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gonna go. Whenever we review one of these, remember I

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don't listen to it first. I don't listen to it first.

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I like to go into it blind. Now, to be fair,

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I will say this, I have taken the transcript from

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many of the ones that we possibly will listen to.

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I have given it to artificial intelligence. And in every

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single case, artificial and intelligence is like, this is filled

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with lies, fraudulent information. This is just wrong. And so

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I feel then a little bit more comfortable that I

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do have the facts on my side. Now I already

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know most of the facts, but all of my visits

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to Salem, but and all of my reading and studying

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of the events. But Cotton Mather is still viewed by

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many to be the hero. So we're getting ready to

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find out. We're going to jump in. This is only

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thirty two minutes long the episode we're going to be reviewing.

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Now thirty two minutes could turn into a whole long

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time of review time. I am pulling up just so

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that everyone knows, because I want to be fair here,

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I am pulling up. Hang on, let me go here,

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Hey can here we go? Here we go, Here we go.

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I think this is the first one I've got. I

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got a lot of notes here, all right, I'm going

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to I am going to be utilizing notes from artificial

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intelligence that help me verify or check or double check

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or critique some things. I've got a bunch of notes.

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I'm gonna I tried to put this together in different ways.

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I got things, I added things, AI added things. I

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challenged it on things that put together. So we kind

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of went back and forth, and then ultimately basically what

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AI told me is, look, I've identified several historical, factual

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and logical errors. So I was like, Okay, good, well,

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I don't want to know them. I'm going to listen

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and we're going to find out together. So are you ready.

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I've got the notes. I've not read these notes. I've

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not done other than the original back and forth than

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when I got the final product. I'm just having them

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ready to go in case I need to access them.

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For the most part, I'm going to rely on the

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things we've already discussed in the previous episode and all

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of my knowledge of the Salem witch Trials, and at

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times I will tell you when I'm quoting from artificial intelligence.

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So it's going to be a mix of artificial intelligence,

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my own study, my own research, my own memory, things

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maybe I've heard learned in my visit to Salem, those

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types of things. So it's going to be a combination

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of a number of factors. But we're going to listen

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to this. I have not heard this, you know what

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I realized. I didn't check to see if it was

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loud enough. I hope it's loud enough. I always check

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the audio levels. I so hope that it's loud enough.

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We're going to find out together, here we.

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Go I Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary. We believe theological education

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should be confessional because of our desire to identify with

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what Christ has done in its church throughout the centuries.

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We fully adhere to the sixteen eighty nine Baptist Confession

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of Faith. The standard keeps us accountable and preserves us

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from novelty. For more information on how you can receive

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00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:03.559
informs barship with pastoral heart, check out our website Cbtseminary

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dot org.

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Oh no, oh, no, I didn't know this came It

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is coming from a seminary? Is this coming from that?

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Was definitely loud enough. That was a lot much louder

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than I thought. I don't know how the presentation is

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going to be, Ladies and gentlemen, if this is coming

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from a seminary, and if I find this thing filled

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with logical, factual and historical error. Look, I hate the

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seminary system as I loathe the seminary system. Right, someone

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has to pack up, move go to a seminary, spend

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all of this money to get a biblical education. You

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were literally just sitting in your church. That pastor should

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be the one training you for ministry, and you should

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be getting real life experience because you're actually a part

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of the church. You should be doing this and doing that.

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And the pastor can bring you into the office and

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you can work together and preparing the sermon on Sunday.

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He can give you opportunities to teach. He can see

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your family's right there. You should be learning and educated

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and trained in your local church. But no, we have

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this seminary industrial complex where people spend all of this

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money to get a Bible education, and then when they

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get to the church and they stand behind the pulpit, well,

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then all of that seminary education we don't really want that.

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We want very practical sermons and we don't want to

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get too in depth. And well, then what's the point

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of going to seminary. And then if you go to

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a seminary and if this is a case that this

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is a presentation from a seminary that's about to completely

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slaughter one of the most you know, infamous events and

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American religious history, well then I'm going to be very

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very bothered. I am hoping this is going to be

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the best presentation we have ever heard in history on

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the Salem witch Trials, But I'm having a feeling that

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we don't. I did not know that this had any

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connection to a seminary. That just caught me way off guard.

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When I heard their little promo there, I was like, wait, wait,

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all right, so let's see what's going to happen here.

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So this message then is being utilized I guess in

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a way as a promotion for the seminary. That's what

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it feels like. You give the commercial for the seminary

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and now you're going to go into this. Is this

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supposed to be somewhat I don't know. Here we go.

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This is a Man of God podcast, a broadcast that

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is brought to you by coming at back to a

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theological seminary in Owensboro, Kentucky. Today. I want to discuss

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for about half an hour the history of the Salem

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witch Trials of sixteen ninety two, as they are a

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reflection upon Cotton Mather and to your surprise if you

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don't know this history, to vindicate Cotton Mather that he

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wasn't actually involved in the Salem witch trials.

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Oh boy, okay, so this is this is a podcast

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of the seminary, and you see we're gonna vindicate Cotton Mather.

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They're gonna vindicate Cotton Mather. Okay, all right, I gotta

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take a deep breath. All right, ladies and gentlemen. Okay,

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you know my perspective. I am obviously biased. So what

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I'm going to do is I'm gonna take my bias.

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We're gonna call bias Fluffy right here, I have Fluffy

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in my arms. Here's my bias. I think Cotton Mather

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is the villain. Okay, not to be vindicated. I think

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you should be found guilty of so much of what

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happened in Salem. All right, But okay, I'm gonna take Fluffy.

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I'm gonna take Fluffy out back. Sorry, Fluffy, you gotta go.

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I'm gonna put Fluffy down, all right. No real animals

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are being harmed in this segment. I'm gonna put Fluffy down,

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and I'm gonna just you know, I'm gonna leave my presuppositions.

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I'm gonna try to leave my bias. I'm gonna try

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to leave my perspective out here, out back, Fluffy, Fluffy's dead.

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I'm gonna walk back in. I'm gonna sit down. I'm

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gonna imagine I'm at this seminary I'm in a classroom

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and he's going to talk about vindicating Cotton Mather because

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Cotton Mather has been mistreated or maligned, or are treated

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incorrectly or or viewed incorrectly. I don't know exactly how

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he's going to frame it, but he's going to vindicate him,

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all right. So I'm going to go in and try

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to be somewhat neutral, but I'm gonna be neutral, but

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from this perspective, I'm going to try to be neutral

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and be willing to be persuaded that Cotton Mather was innocent.

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But I'm going to also listen with very critical ears

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based on all of my years of study and reading

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about the Salem Witch Trials, and I can't ignore what

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we've just spent multiple hours doing on this podcast itself

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about the Salem Witch Trials, where I clearly implicate Cotton Mather. Right,

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So are we? Are you ready? Here we go?

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When I was teaching American church history and a little

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church plant that we had started up the night before,

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and I'd been studying for a week to do the

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Salem Wish Trials as part of the early American history

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up until twenty four hours before, I was sure that

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Cotton Mather was involved in the Salem Wish trials because

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everything written from eighteen thirty one on implicated him in

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these trials. But the last day that I had time

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to study this out further, including Sunday morning because we

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had a later service in most churches, I discovered two

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books a really vindicated Cotton Mather from being involved at

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all in the Salem witch trials. And those two sources

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are William Pull and Enoch Pond. My purpose of doing

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this is to show if you're interested in teaching church history,

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and I would say especially American church history, try to

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go back as close as you can now that we

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have the opportunity to do this through books dot Google

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dot com and finding sources archive dot org and other places,

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and do first hand research and find out to see

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if there's been any revisionist history between then and now.

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With that, we'll start today's podcast to follow. An article

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was in the North American Review for April of eighteen

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sixty nine, written by William Frederick Poll, who actually lived

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in Salem, Massachusetts. Cotton Mather and the Salem Witchcraft Trials.

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This is a vindication of Cotton Mather and to show

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that Cotton Mather was not involved in the Salem witch trials,

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and that to state that he was is a revisionist history.

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Nearly two centuries had passed away since the Satus tragedy

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of early New England history was enacted at Salem and

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Salem Village. Instead of fading out from the memory of men,

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the incidents of Salem witchcraft are receive more attention today

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than at any former period. The fact of his being

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the last great exhibition of a superstition which had cursed

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humanity for thousands of years, and that every incident connected

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with it has been preserved in the form of record, deposition,

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or narrative imparts to it a peculiar interest and one

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which will be permanent. It is not as a record

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of whoores, but as a field of psychological study, that

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the subject will retain its hold on the minds of men.

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More victims than suffered at Salem were hurried to the

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gallows by witchcraft year after year in a single county

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of England during the seventeenth century, but the details of

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English trials in so common were generally not thought worth preserving.

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Probably as much authentic and reliable information respecting the Salem

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proceedings as extant as of the trials of the thirty

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thousand victims who suffered from the same cause in England.

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How did the Salem delusion originate? Who was responsible for it?

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Was it wholly the result of fraud and deception? Or

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where there psychological phenomena attending it which have never been explained?

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Is there any resemblance between the proceedings of the afflicted

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children of Salem Village and modern spiritual manifestations? Where the

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clergy of New England or any other profession or class

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in the community especially implicated in it? And in one

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of these questions affords a theme for discussion. We propose, however,

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to review the incidents of the Fearful tragedy for the

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purpose of re examining the historical evidence on which, in

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a popular estimation, so larger portion of the culpability for

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those executions has been laid upon one individual. In eighteen

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thirty one, Charles Wentworth Upham printed as Lectures on Salem Witchcraft,

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and which he brought some very grave charges against Cotton

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Mather as being the contriver, instigator and promoter of the delusion,

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and a chief conspirator against the lives of the sufferer.

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These charges have been repeated by mister Quincy in his

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History of Harvard University, by mister Peabody in his Life

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of Cotton Mather, by mister Baincroft, and by nearly all

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historical writers since that date. Mister Uppham, after an interval

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of thirty six years, has reiterated and emphasized his original

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accusations and his elaborate History a Salem Witchcraft, printed in

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eighteen sixty seven. They have obtained a lodgeman and all

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the minor in school histories, and the present generation of

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00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:36.400
youth is taught that nineteen innocent persons were hanged and

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one was pressed to death to gratify the vanity, ambition

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and stolid credulity of Cotton Mather. If one imagines that

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we are staying in the case too strongly, let him

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try an experiment on the first bright boy he meets,

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by asking who got up Salem Witchcraft? And with a

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00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:58.640
promptness that will startle him, he will receive the reply.

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00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:03.400
Let him try another boy with a question who was

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00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:06.440
Cotton Mather? And the answer will come. The man who

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00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:10.759
is on horseback and hung witches. An examination of the

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00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.839
historical textbooks use in our schools will show where these

439
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:18.200
ideas originated. We have the latest editions of a dozen

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00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:19.680
such manuals before us.

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So their argument going in is that basically that Cotton

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00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:29.240
Mather has been framed, he gets all the blame, and

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that this is revisionist history. If you blame Cotton Mather,

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00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:37.480
it's revisionist history. All right, well, we're going to see

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00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:41.039
what argument they're going to provide to us, what evidence

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00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:44.519
they're going to provide to clear Cotton Mather. All right,

447
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:48.440
let's let's see where the argument goes. Now he's just

448
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:54.680
reading this, like you know, so it's going to be

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very difficult. I'm going to let this go a little ways,

450
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:00.400
and what I may have to do, I'm may have

451
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:04.599
to utilize artificial intelligence, like you know, breakdown of this,

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because this is going to be very difficult for me

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00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:09.680
to like break in because he's just like duh d

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00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:14.720
there's no natural pause or no natural trends. He's just

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reading from an article, just like verbatim, just reading the article.

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He's not reading it. Maybe he's going to break in

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and discuss it a little bit, but if he's just

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00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:24.319
going to read it, it's going to be very hard

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to do a review without it getting too broken up.

460
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:29.880
So I'm going to give you give him the opportunity

461
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:32.160
to get the basic thesis out, and then I'm going

462
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:37.200
to utilize artificial intelligence. I've given artificial intelligence the entire transcript,

463
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:42.119
so artificial intelligence has every word that's spoken in this podcast,

464
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:44.519
and I'm gonna then we can just go through what

465
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:47.240
artificial intelligence says. This is not exactly the way I

466
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:50.000
wanted it to go. Hey, this is what happens when

467
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:53.680
you go in blind. I saw this was a podcast.

468
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:57.400
I'm like, oh, podcast, they're going to be They're gonna

469
00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.559
be talking about it. It looks like it's just a

470
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:02.960
podcast episode where he just reads an article about from

471
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:06.920
someone claiming all of these things about Cotton Mather, I

472
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:09.960
guess are not accurate. So let's just see how they

473
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.599
develop it, and then we'll try to respond in part

474
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:14.079
I will try our best to.

475
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:20.680
Do that, but the following examples must suffice quote. Cotton Mather,

476
00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:24.480
an eccentric but influential minister, took up the mantor, and

477
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:27.799
great excitement spread through the colony.

478
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.240
Please note he just acknowledged in the article that he's

479
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:37.759
written a Cotton Mather was an influential. He was influential.

480
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:40.799
Let me make that very clear. Influential. So let me

481
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:45.680
ask you something. Can someone who's influential influence the place

482
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:50.680
that he has not been or is not there. Someone's

483
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:54.799
influence goes where they don't go, right, That's how influence spreads.

484
00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:57.119
That's what it means to be influential. Right. If you're

485
00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:00.160
only influential where, well, when I meet this person, I

486
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.960
influenced them. That's true. Let to be your If your

487
00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:08.079
influence is widespread, that means you're influencing areas where you're

488
00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:10.480
not currently yet. Let's just keep that in mind, because

489
00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:12.960
I have a feeling there are argument's going to be, well,

490
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:15.799
he wasn't a judge. Well, he wasn't there for this,

491
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:19.640
He wasn't there for that. We've already acknowledged where he

492
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:25.279
was and wasn't what we're saying, his influence was there, right, Okay,

493
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:28.319
so let's let's just but this. The article Irin just

494
00:28:28.359 --> 00:28:32.400
already acknowledged the influence of Cotton Mather. His influence cannot

495
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:34.960
be you know, we can't miss that.

496
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.720
Among those hangings was a minister named Burrows, who had

497
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:44.960
denounced the proceedings of Mather and his associates and his execution.

498
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.079
Mather appeared among the crowd on horseback and quieted to

499
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:52.519
people with quotations from scripture, Mather gloried and these judicial

500
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:55.839
murders end quote quick in Boss's School History of the

501
00:28:55.960 --> 00:28:58.720
United States, eighteen sixty eight, pages one thirty eight to

502
00:28:58.759 --> 00:28:59.279
one forty.

503
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.319
And I'm good that that's in a textbook. They're saying

504
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:06.519
that the textbooks, I guess are wrong. Cotton Mather was there.

505
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:10.039
He was on horseback. Now, he didn't just calm the

506
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:13.640
crowd when the crowd's like, ah, well, let's not kill Burrows.

507
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:18.400
He's the one who convinces them to proceed with the execution.

508
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:21.880
So are he's going to say that that's factually an

509
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:29.720
error that Cotton Mather wasn't there. Now, that textbook may

510
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:34.640
have implied that Cotton Mather did not like Burrows, because

511
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:38.279
Burrows has possibly criticized what was going on in Salem.

512
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:42.240
I did not make that implication in my narrative that

513
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:45.039
I gave. I did not state that right. I even

514
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:49.240
asked the question, do we think, you know, Mather really

515
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:51.519
believed that Burrows was guilty, or do we think there

516
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:54.160
was something else I am. I asked the question. I

517
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:56.000
did not make the implication. So if you wanted to say,

518
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.039
the textbook may have offered, you know, some motivation for

519
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:02.559
and you can criticize that, I'm willing to hear that.

520
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:05.279
But are you going to say Mather wasn't there? Are

521
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:09.000
you going to say Mather did not convince the crowd

522
00:30:09.079 --> 00:30:13.559
to continue with the execution of this of the Reverence

523
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:18.440
of Reverend Burroughs or Minister Burrows.

524
00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:23.759
From Lossing's Victorial History of the United States eighteen sixty eight,

525
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:27.160
page one oh six, Cotton, Mather and other popular men

526
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:31.960
wrote in its defense, kellfh a citizen of Boston, exposed

527
00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:36.880
Mather's credulity and greatly irritated the minister. Mather called kell

528
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.920
weaverturn minister, a coal from Hell, and prosecuted him for slander.

529
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:44.720
End quote. Well, due to my shortness of time in

530
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:47.960
a single podcast, I can't read all of these quotes,

531
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:52.480
but I go on to quote mister Poole. Mister Bancroft

532
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:57.240
adopts substantially the views of Upham Cotton. Mather's Mauma's vanity

533
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:00.200
gloried in the assaults of evil angels upon the country

534
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.000
to cover his own confusion, he got up a case

535
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:08.039
of witchcraft in his own parish. Was Cotton Mather honestly credulous?

536
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:11.599
He is an example how far selfishness under the form

537
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:16.640
of vanity ambition can blind the higher faculties, stupefy the judgment,

538
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.839
and dupe consciousness itself. But we need not pause over

539
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:25.680
mister Baincroft's secondhand in rhetorical statements. Mister Hildreth gave some

540
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:29.319
attention to the original authorities and saw that the wild

541
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:33.920
assertions of mister Upham and mister Bancroft were untenable. It

542
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:36.440
is to be regretted that, with his candidate and impartial

543
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.319
methods of study, he did not go far enough to

544
00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:44.000
reach the whole truth, he says. The suggestion that Cotton Mather,

545
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:48.200
for purposes of his own deliberately got up this witchcraft

546
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:51.319
illusion and forced it upon a doubtful and hesitating people

547
00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:58.680
is utterly absurd. Mather's physician convictions and temperament alike called

548
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:01.680
him to serve on this occasion the organ exponent and

549
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:06.079
stimulator of the popular faith. End quote the.

550
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:11.559
Again, I'm not hearing any I'm not hearing any actual defense,

551
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:14.359
you're just basically saying Mather didn't do this. You're not

552
00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:22.599
explaining anything. The point was Cotton Mather's book was the blueprint,

553
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:27.200
it was the script. You can't deny that. And considering

554
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:30.559
that the book was literally in the possession of the

555
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.079
pastor whose daughter and niece makes the first accusations following

556
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:37.920
the book to the letter, now, I can't say they

557
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:39.599
read the book. I don't know how they knew, but

558
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.839
it was way too much of a coincidence. And then

559
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:46.039
not only a wait, Mather's involvement with the case in Boston,

560
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:49.000
Mather at the execution of Burr. I mean, come on now,

561
00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:54.039
but okay, okay, so far they're just like, well, this

562
00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:56.119
is not true. This is not true. You're not telling

563
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:58.119
me why it's not true. You're not giving me any

564
00:32:58.119 --> 00:32:59.559
evidence to the contrary.

565
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:05.880
His views respecting mister Mathers's connection with the Salem Trials

566
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.160
are to be found in no publication of a date

567
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:13.720
prior to eighteen thirty one, when mister Upham's lectures were published.

568
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.279
The Clergy of New England, indeed, soon after the delusion

569
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:21.039
abated and subsequently had been blamed for fostering the excitement

570
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:24.599
an increased Mather in Cotton math or father and son

571
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:29.160
being the most prominent clergyman in the colony. Both staunch

572
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:31.960
believers in the reality of witchcraft and writers on the

573
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.839
subject were criticized more freely than any others. But these

574
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:38.599
charges were very different from those we are to consider.

575
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.200
Mister Upham, in the appendix to his second edition, printed

576
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:46.599
in eighteen thirty two, sets forth and maintains for his

577
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:50.680
opinions the claim of originality to which he is entitled.

578
00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:55.359
The accuracy of his statements respecting mister Mathers's character had

579
00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:56.119
been questioned.

580
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.759
Now it's hang on, I'm doing it check here, because

581
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:07.519
he made a claim here. Uh okay. The assertion that

582
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:10.159
there was no record of Cotton Mather attending the execution

583
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:13.079
of George Burrows until after eighteen thirty one is incorrect.

584
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:18.920
Contemporary accounts from sixteen ninety two, notable by Robert Caliph

585
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:24.079
and Samuel Sewall, document Matther's presence at the execution. So

586
00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:27.360
don't say that that whole story about him being at

587
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:31.280
the execution didn't show up till eighteen thirty one. That's garbage.

588
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:34.639
It's just not true, and you're a stinking seminary Get

589
00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:39.599
your historical Facts straight right. Robert Califf, a contemporary critic

590
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:42.679
of the Salem witch trials, detailed Mather's attendants in his

591
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:46.480
work More Wonders of the Invisible World seventeen hundred. Caleph

592
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:49.280
described how Mather, mounted on a horse, addressed the crowd

593
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:52.159
to reaffrom burrows guilt after Burrows had recited the Lord's

594
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:57.920
Prayer flawlessly, a feat believed impossible for witches. Mister Burrows

595
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:00.960
was carried in a cart with others the streets of

596
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:04.519
Salem to execution. When he was upon the ladder, he

597
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:07.320
made a speech for the clearing of his innocency, which

598
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:11.440
was solemn and serious expressions, as were to the admiration

599
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:14.639
of all present. He concluded by repeating the Lord's Prayer,

600
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:20.800
which he did composedly and exactly, exactly as is generally

601
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:27.559
reported by the spectators the accusers said. By the spectators,

602
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:32.039
the accuser said, the black man in parentheses Satan stood

603
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:34.599
and dictated to him. As soon as he was turned

604
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:38.280
off hanged mister Cotton. Mather, being mounted upon a horse,

605
00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:41.079
addressed himself to the people, partly declared that mister Burrows

606
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:43.960
was no ordained minister partly to possess the people of

607
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.920
his guilt, saying that the devil has often been transformed

608
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:51.159
into an anger angel of light. All right, So in

609
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:56.400
other words, we have here seventeen hundred. You have a

610
00:35:56.440 --> 00:36:02.719
full account here, a full account here, all right. Yeah,

611
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:04.719
and that's written kind of weird. As soon as he

612
00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:09.039
was turned off and then in parentheses hanged, mister Cotton Mather,

613
00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:11.480
being mounted upon a horse, addressed himself to the people.

614
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:14.039
That sounds like when it means as soon as he

615
00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:17.920
was turned off means they stopped the hanging and then

616
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:20.440
he spoke or does that mean he spoke after the hanging.

617
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:24.960
I don't know. I've always heard that it was right before.

618
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:28.280
That's the case. But the point was he was there,

619
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:31.039
so you can't get and he justifies what just happened.

620
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:34.280
A judge during the trials also noted Mather's presence and

621
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:38.199
his diary entry dated August nineteenth, nineteen sixty two, mentioning

622
00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:41.440
that Mather was at the execution and had interactions with

623
00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:45.000
the crowd. These first ten accounts from sixteen ninety two

624
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:48.920
confirmed that Cotton Mather attended George Burrow's execution, refuting claims

625
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:53.760
that such records emerged only after eighteen thirty one. So

626
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:58.400
anyone's saying they that a lot of this washing nothing

627
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:01.639
existed till eighteen thirty one, when all of the I

628
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:06.519
guess the liberals showed up to somehow make poor Cotton

629
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:10.960
Mather look bad. That's not accurate. That is, that does

630
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:16.679
not appear to be accurate, all right, So let's continue.

631
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:21.000
Mister Upham and his reply admits that previously to the

632
00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:24.599
investigation of the subject of his lectures, quote, a shadow

633
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:27.719
of a doubt had never been suggested respecting mister Mather's

634
00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:32.159
moral and Christian character end quote. He adds, quote it

635
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:34.559
was with the greatest reluctance that such a doubt was

636
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:36.400
permitted to enter into my mind.

637
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:42.880
Nobody questioned his moral or Christian character because it was

638
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:45.199
obviously in line with the moral and Christian character of

639
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.719
the Puritans to kill witches. Okay, So I don't know

640
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:53.239
what that proves. Nobody's made an argument he did not

641
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:56.480
have moral and Christian character. Now will I know, take

642
00:37:56.519 --> 00:37:58.519
it back, I will call into question his moral and

643
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:01.679
Christian character as someone who don't believe you should be

644
00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:05.360
killing witches. All right, So I think maybe that's the case.

645
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:07.199
But if you believe in killing witches, then of course

646
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.280
you're going to justify his moral and Christian character. Now,

647
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:13.639
I think the way he handled George Burrow or Reverend

648
00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:17.239
Burrow's death, I think is as absolutely atrocious. I think

649
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:20.840
it's absolutely horrible the way that went down. Absolutely, I mean,

650
00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:24.559
especially from every account, the way it went down. He

651
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:27.480
could have stopped and say, wait, he just recited the

652
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:31.119
Lord's prayer. Some of you want to halt this, Let's

653
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:35.280
halt this, let's do more investigating. And only that. Oh,

654
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:42.320
spectral evidence that Cotton Mather promoted was ridiculous. So but

655
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:45.440
again they have not offered any positive evidence of anything

656
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:48.079
other saying that basically Cotton Mather was a good guy.

657
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:51.679
Carton Mather was a good guy, and nobody said anything

658
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:54.480
bad after eighteen thirty one, I don't know. We have

659
00:38:55.800 --> 00:39:00.400
records of people talking about him seventeen hundred and even

660
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:02.920
before that. Even before that, we have that diary that

661
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.880
dates back to right there around the time of the trial,

662
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.199
showing that Cotton Mather was there and he had interaction

663
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:09.920
with the crowd.

664
00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:16.039
It seemed incredible, nay, almost impossible that a man who

665
00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:18.000
had been at the head of all the great religious

666
00:39:18.039 --> 00:39:21.159
operations of his day, who had been the instrument of

667
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:24.599
so many apparent conversions, and who devoted so many hours

668
00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:27.320
and days and weeks of his life to fasting in prayer,

669
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:31.480
could in reality be dishonest and corrupt. But when the

670
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:33.800
evidence of the case required me to believe that in

671
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:37.920
the transactions which I'd undertaken to relate his character did

672
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:41.360
actually appear in this dark and disgraceful light, a regard

673
00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:45.000
for truth and justice compelled me to express my convictions

674
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:50.159
in this discussion. We shall treat mister Upham's lectures and

675
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:53.000
history in the same connection as the latter, as an

676
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.920
expansion in defense of the views presented in the former.

677
00:39:56.840 --> 00:40:00.239
In the history, Cotton Mather appears more frequently and in

678
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:03.280
a more favorable light than in the lectures, and many

679
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:05.400
of the allusions to him are not referred to in

680
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:09.000
the index. He comes in when we should least expect him,

681
00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:13.480
and always with evil purpose, plotting and counterplotting. Disappointed when

682
00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:17.199
the trials were over, planning new excitement and other trials

683
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:21.840
in Boston, unrepentant when everybody else had taken to the confessional,

684
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:26.599
wrecked in reputation almost before his career had commenced, and

685
00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:29.960
going to his grave full of remorse and disappointment. But

686
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:34.320
William Poole says of Upham's research quote, mister Upham is

687
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:37.880
never at a loss to know what mister Mather contemplated

688
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:41.599
on an occasion, what he longed for, what he would

689
00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:44.480
have been glad to have, what he looked upon with

690
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:48.360
secret pleasure, and what he was secretly and cunningly endeavoring

691
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:51.960
to do. Mister p Buddy also knows when Cotton Mather

692
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.280
was in his element and what he enjoyed the great

693
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:58.639
felicity of We do not hope to follow these writers

694
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:02.079
into the dark recesses of mister Mather's mind, But in

695
00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:04.760
the course of this investigation we shall take up some

696
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.159
of their statements and examine them in the light of

697
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:10.880
evidence that may be regarded as historical. A few words

698
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:14.079
touching the widespread belief in witchcraft prevalent in the seventeenth

699
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:17.440
century may prepare some of our readers better to appreciate

700
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:22.000
the events which are more particularly to come under our notice. Donation,

701
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:25.159
no asion, no form of religion or irreligion may claim

702
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:29.320
an immunity from this superstition. The Reformers were as zealous

703
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:32.920
in this manner as the Catholics. It is estimated during

704
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:36.280
the sixteenth and seventeenth century two one hundred thousand persons

705
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:40.960
were executed, mostly burned, in Europe, Germany furnishing one half

706
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:44.400
of the victims in England thirty thousand. We are soon

707
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:48.480
to consider the credulity and superstition of Cotton Mather, and

708
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:51.559
desire here to call attention to the non entire absence

709
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:55.199
of these qualities in the state and judicious John Winthrop,

710
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:59.039
the founder of the Massachusetts Colony, the facts in relation

711
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:01.400
to Margaret Jones to be that she was a strong

712
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:02.920
minded woman with.

713
00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:07.039
A willa Okay this already there was like a skip there,

714
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:09.400
and it almost feels like he jumped ahead somewhere in

715
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:11.800
the article. I don't know. This is just like he's

716
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:15.119
just do it. This makes it very difficult. So I'm

717
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:17.480
I may try to come back and play a little

718
00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:19.920
bit more of this, but I'm gonna start breaking this down,

719
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.119
all right. Uh and and and we're going to try

720
00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:25.400
to go through this to the best of my ability,

721
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:31.559
all right. So uh well, I guess we'll just keep

722
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:33.440
listening and we'll just try to deal with it that way,

723
00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:35.639
like I want to just kind of start taking this apart,

724
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:38.880
but I just feel like, hang on, let me let

725
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:40.119
me see here. Can I open this?

726
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:41.159
Let me see here?

727
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:49.039
Yeah, I don't think I can. I wanted to. I

728
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:51.679
wanted to see if I could open up this transcript

729
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:53.760
here to make sure that I've got the right transcript

730
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:56.400
because I got so many transcripts that AI has looked at. Well,

731
00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:58.719
we'll go a little bit further and we'll see what

732
00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:02.360
they start saying here. And ah, man, this is so

733
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:05.079
difficult to try to do a reviewer. But we'll go

734
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:07.199
a little bit further, Just a little bit further.

735
00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:11.960
Of her own and undertook with simple remedies to practice

736
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:15.440
as a female physician where she living in our day,

737
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:18.440
She would brandish a diploma of MD from the New

738
00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:22.880
England Female Medical College, would annually refuse to pay her city,

739
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.639
Texas unless she had the right to vote, and would

740
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:29.000
make speeches at the meetings of the Universal Suffrage Association.

741
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:33.000
Her touch seemed to be attended with mesmeric powers. She

742
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:36.920
made anniaseseed and good lookers do the work of huge

743
00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:41.079
doses of calomel and epsom salts or their equivalents. Her

744
00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:44.159
predictions as to the determination of cases treated and the

745
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:48.119
heroic method proved to be true. Wherever the regulars pounced

746
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:50.760
upon her as a witch, as the monks did upon

747
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:53.440
Fossis for printing in the first edition of the Bible,

748
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:57.159
put her and her husband into jail, set rude men

749
00:43:57.239 --> 00:44:00.360
to watch her day and night, subjected her person into

750
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:04.599
indignities unmentionable, and with the assistance of John Winthrop and

751
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:08.400
the magistrates, hamed her. And all of this only fifteen

752
00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:13.119
years before Cotton Mather the Credulous was born. Mary Johnson

753
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:15.159
was executed the same year in Hartford.

754
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:18.760
I guess what they're trying to say is this, these

755
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:22.679
things were happening before Cotton Mather. Nobody denies that these

756
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:26.639
things happened before Cotton Mather. Nobody denies thousands upon thousands

757
00:44:26.719 --> 00:44:29.199
upon thousands of people were killed in Europe for the

758
00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:32.719
witch trouse. Nobody is doubting any of that. What we're

759
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:36.239
saying is that when Cotton Mather writes out his book,

760
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:40.719
he lays the literally the blueprint for Salem would by

761
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.840
no means were denying that the other things would not

762
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:45.760
have an influence. But you can't deny the Cotton mathers.

763
00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:48.920
I don't even It's like, well, other things happened before

764
00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:52.800
Cotton Mather, so Cotton Mather is completely exempt from any responsibility.

765
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:59.480
That's just ridiculous. That doesn't prove anything. So I'm gonna

766
00:44:59.480 --> 00:45:03.480
go to this because because this just gets this gets

767
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:06.519
this gets irritating. This is why AI says I have

768
00:45:06.559 --> 00:45:09.599
identified several historical, factual, and logical errors in the podcast

769
00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:12.760
defense of Cotton Mather. Well, it is true that Cotton

770
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:16.039
Mather was not a judge or prosecutor. The argument that

771
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:18.239
he had no significant role in the Salem trials is

772
00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:22.320
misleading and downplays his thellological influence on the events. Here

773
00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:25.760
is a breakdown of the key errors. Right number one

774
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:29.800
misrepresentation of Mather's influence on the Salem trial. Mather was

775
00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:37.079
not hang on, I'm gonna make sure I got this here, Yes, okay, okay, yes,

776
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:39.400
I'm going to make sure I've got the right claim.

777
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:41.199
Somewhere in this it appears that they're going to make

778
00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:43.800
the claim that Mather was not involved in the trials

779
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:47.239
and his roles has been exaggerated by historians after eighteen

780
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:49.639
thirty one, which we already heard them make a little

781
00:45:49.639 --> 00:45:52.320
bit of those claims. While Mather was not a judge,

782
00:45:52.360 --> 00:45:56.760
he actively defended the trials and provided theological justification for

783
00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:02.239
them both before and after they took place. Mather's book

784
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:06.719
Memorable Providences Relating to Witchcraft and Possession sixteen eighty nine

785
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:11.400
was widely read and helped establish the framework for identifying witches.

786
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:15.239
This book was known to have been owned by Reverend

787
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:19.639
Samuel Parris and influenced how the Salem judges approached witchcraft cases.

788
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:26.400
It validated spectral evidence and described children being afflicted by witches,

789
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:31.519
which directly mirrors the accusations made in Salem. Mathers supported

790
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:34.320
the use of spectral evidence testimony that a person's spirit

791
00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:37.280
attacked someone even if their body was elsewhere, which was

792
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:40.480
one of the most controversial aspects of the trial. He

793
00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:45.920
wrote a letter to William Stoughton sixteen ninety two and

794
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:49.360
a letter to Judge Stoughton. Mather urged him to continue

795
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:54.519
prosecuting witches and specifically stated that spectral evidence should not

796
00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:58.400
be dismissed outright. He literally wrote to one of the judges,

797
00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:01.960
but hey, we're gonna Mather is not the bad guy here.

798
00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:06.960
This contradicts that letter right to the judge and everything

799
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:11.320
else contradicts the podcast assertion that Mather played no role

800
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:15.000
in his legal proceedings. He was directly influencing the judges,

801
00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:18.880
His book was influencing the ministers. He wrote letters to

802
00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:22.280
influence the judges, and he was at the execution of

803
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:25.039
someone in the trial. Oh but no, no, no, no, no, no.

804
00:47:25.239 --> 00:47:29.119
Mather's innocent. He's a good guy. What are you talking about?

805
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:33.840
Number two false claims that Wonders of the Invisible World

806
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:37.320
was unrelated to the trials. Mather's book Wonders of the

807
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:41.239
Invisible World was published after the trials and was and

808
00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:43.840
was not an endorsement of it. This is the claim

809
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:46.880
by the podcast that Mather's book Wonders of the Invisible

810
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:49.360
World was published after the trials and was not endorsement

811
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:53.559
of them. Mather wrote Wonders of the Invisible World specifically

812
00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:57.920
to defend the Salem Trials and justify the executions. The

813
00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:01.440
book explicitly praises the trials and argues that New England

814
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:05.880
was under spiritual attack from witches. Mather's work portrays those

815
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:10.599
executed as guilty, despite later evidence that many were wrongfully accused.

816
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:15.559
He included court records and defended the verdicts, suggesting that

817
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:19.599
the judges acted righteously and condemning witches. The podcast implies

818
00:48:19.639 --> 00:48:23.480
that Mather was neutral or uninvolved. His own writings show

819
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:26.639
that he actively sought to justify the trials and reassured

820
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:30.719
the public that the court had acted properly. He wasn't neutral,

821
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:36.599
He wasn't not involved the Goodwin case of sixteen eighty

822
00:48:36.639 --> 00:48:41.679
eight in Boston, all right. The podcast claims that Mather's

823
00:48:41.719 --> 00:48:45.000
involvement in the Ann Glover case in sixteen eighty eight

824
00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:48.519
did not lead to the Salem trials, but this is

825
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:51.719
historical era. The Goodwin case played a crucial role in

826
00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:55.480
shaping Salem. Mather was directly involved in the Goodwin case

827
00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:59.280
and personally oversaw the interrogation of Anne Glover, a Catholic

828
00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:02.559
woman accused the be witching Puritan children. The case introduced

829
00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:04.920
many of the same elements that would appear in Salem.

830
00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:09.519
Afflicted children experiencing fits, the belief that witches could torment

831
00:49:09.639 --> 00:49:12.760
others through spectral means, the idea that the accused were

832
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:16.000
part of a large network of witches. Mather wrote about

833
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:19.159
this case extensively, and his and his book on. It

834
00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:22.599
was widely read by Puritan leaders, including those in Salem.

835
00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:26.079
Reverend Samuel Parris, one of the key figures in Salem,

836
00:49:26.239 --> 00:49:29.159
had access to Mather's work and may have used it

837
00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:32.440
as a guide in interpreting the afflictions of the Salem children.

838
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:35.960
Not only did he have access to the book, almost

839
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:39.320
everything says he had the book in his house in

840
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:42.760
his study. The parallels between the Goodwin case and Salem

841
00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:46.599
are undeniable, and it is historically misleading to claim that

842
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:50.440
Mather's early writings did not shape the trials. Next, the

843
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:54.719
claim that the claim that Mather's diary does not mention

844
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:57.880
the Salem Trials. The podcast is going to claim that

845
00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:01.119
Mather's diary does not contain reflections on the Salem Trials,

846
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:04.599
which prove he was not involved. This is a logical error.

847
00:50:05.400 --> 00:50:09.679
The absence of a personal diary entry does not mean

848
00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:13.559
Mather had no involvement. This is a logical fallacy known

849
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:16.559
as an argument from silence. Just because Mather does not

850
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:19.760
explicitly reflect on Salem and his personal diary does not

851
00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:23.559
mean he was not involved. Mather's public writings, his sermons,

852
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:28.400
his letters, his books explicitly defend the trials. Those hold

853
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:32.159
far more historical weight than a private diary. The podcast

854
00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:35.760
ignores the fact that Mather actively corresponded with judges and

855
00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:39.519
officials during the trial. In his letter to Judge Stoughton,

856
00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:44.320
he commended the judge for their actions, writing and I quote,

857
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.159
if in the midst of the many services which you

858
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:50.760
are pressing for our Lord, you meet with any singular discouragement,

859
00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:53.519
you may comfort yourself with this that our Lord christ

860
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:56.199
has seen it and will reckon it. This clearly shows

861
00:50:56.199 --> 00:50:58.880
that Mather was not indifferent to the trials, but encouraged

862
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:03.840
the judge to continue their work all right. A misrepresentation

863
00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:07.239
of Mather's stance on spectral evidence, The podcast claims Matther

864
00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:10.639
was skeptical of spectral evidence and did not support using

865
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:15.440
it in trials. However, this is historical error. Mather's own

866
00:51:15.440 --> 00:51:18.960
writings contradict this claim. While he did caution that spectral

867
00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:21.760
evidence alone should not be the only proof, he repeatedly

868
00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:25.199
defended its use as valid evidence and wonders of the

869
00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:28.320
invisible world, he described cases where spectral evidence played a

870
00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:32.199
role in convicting witches and praised the judge for their wisdom.

871
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:36.280
The trials used spectral evidence, precisely because figures like Mather

872
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:41.000
had legitimized in prior cases. Cotton Mather personally attended at

873
00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:44.800
least one of the executioners, George Burrows, and justified it

874
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:48.360
even when doubts were raised. Burrows recited the Lord's Prayer

875
00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:52.199
flawlessly before being hanged, which shocked the crowd, since which

876
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:54.840
is were believed to be incapable of doing so. Cotton

877
00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:57.960
Mather immediately intervened, telling the crowd that the devil could

878
00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:00.639
appear as an angel of light, effectively sh ssuring that

879
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:07.320
the execution proceeded. So a lot of the claims are

880
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:13.119
just fraudulent. They're just absolutely historically and accurate. There's logical fallacies.

881
00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:16.239
The defense here is just insane. Let's listen to a

882
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:17.360
little bit more of the defense.

883
00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:22.119
Mary Parsons was tried in sixteen fifty one and again

884
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:25.559
in sixteen seventy four. Her husband, Hugh Parsons, was tried

885
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:29.320
in sixteen fifty two. In sixteen fifty one, two persons

886
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:32.480
were tried in Hartford. In sixteen fifty three, good wife

887
00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:36.079
Nap was hanged at Fairfield, Connecticut, and so on. Mister

888
00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:39.519
Pabuddy says, quote after the execution of missus Hibbins in

889
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:43.239
sixteen fifty six. The taste for such scenes had abated,

890
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:46.159
and it was not until Cotton Mather in sixteen eighty

891
00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:49.039
five published in an Account of Several Cases of Witchcraft,

892
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:53.239
that such fears and fancies revived in quote. But though

893
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:55.639
we have given only an incomplete sketch of the early

894
00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:58.719
witch proceedings in New England, it is enough to show

895
00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:02.280
that the colonies were in a constant ferment from supposed

896
00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:06.760
diabolical agency for more than forty years before sixteen ninety two,

897
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:11.480
and every community there were suspicious and accusations which never

898
00:53:11.519 --> 00:53:15.880
came to a public examination, the same disturbance that existed

899
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:18.800
to a still greater extent in England and throughout Europe.

900
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:23.320
With look, this thing is so there was a huge gap,

901
00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:26.960
he said. But you know, I'm not going to go

902
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.599
into all the details. Wait a minute, Wait a minute.

903
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:34.079
But there was a case that was four years before Salem,

904
00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:37.400
four years in fact, it was the last execution in

905
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:42.000
Boston for witchcraft four years before. Who was involved in

906
00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:45.920
that case, Oh yeah, Cotton Mather who wrote about that case.

907
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:48.639
Cotton Mather, who put it in a book that ended

908
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:51.599
up in the pastor's study, who happens to have his

909
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:54.599
daughter and his niece who make the accusations. Oh yeah,

910
00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:57.199
and which book was that written by Cotton Mather? Cotton,

911
00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:00.000
you can say, well, there was all these old cases

912
00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:04.280
and then but well, I mean, see for forty years

913
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:06.400
they've been in a panic. For have they been in

914
00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:10.800
a panic for forty years? Or did it have waves?

915
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:13.239
It kind of rises and then it kind of goes down,

916
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:15.519
and everybody moves on, and then it comes back. Well,

917
00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:20.599
I wonder what came back. Well, four years before Salem,

918
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:25.079
Cotton mathers involved in a case and he writes the

919
00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:30.360
book that becomes the blueprint for Salem. None of this proves.

920
00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:35.440
There's not one thing here that's proving anything. Oh, this

921
00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:36.079
is maddening.

922
00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:41.880
The persons actuated simply by malice to ease the method

923
00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:45.039
of annoying the neighbor, or of writing a community of

924
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:47.800
a pestilent old woman, was by setting them on foot

925
00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:52.079
a charge of woodcrest against them. English books relating to

926
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:55.679
the subject were very numerous and constituted the delight reading

927
00:54:55.719 --> 00:54:59.039
of the day. Everybody knew how a witch ought to behave,

928
00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:01.920
and some of their pranks afforded young people of unregenerate

929
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:07.320
minds agreeable recreation after their unsavory tasks over to Cambridge

930
00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:11.960
Platform and a Westminster confession of faith. On such reasoning,

931
00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:14.400
it will readily be seen that witch trials would be

932
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:18.440
very infrequent and very harmless affairs. And yet these writers,

933
00:55:18.559 --> 00:55:22.800
judged by our modern standards, were very credulous and superstitious persons.

934
00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:26.599
The narrative we have quoted from John Winthrop's journal would

935
00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:30.199
not have seemed to them absurd or revolting. No intelligent

936
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:33.960
person in those times rejected the theory of diabolical agency

937
00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:37.000
unless he rejected also the authority of the Old and

938
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:40.559
New Testaments, the existence of angels, and a life beyond

939
00:55:40.599 --> 00:55:44.199
the grave. A believe in witchcraft was essential to the

940
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:47.519
maintenance of a Christian character. To express any doubts on

941
00:55:47.559 --> 00:55:50.800
the subject was to lay oneself open to denunciation as

942
00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:55.039
a sadducee, a term of reproach which had lost its significance,

943
00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:58.000
had then had no one within the pale of the

944
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:00.679
Christian Church had then written or spoken again the reality

945
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:04.679
of witchcraft. By taking an individual of a past generation

946
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:07.880
out of his relations with his own times and putting

947
00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:11.840
him upon the background of modern civilization and refinement, and

948
00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:14.880
then reproaching him with opinions and practices now shown to

949
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:17.920
be erroneous, by which he shared in common with all

950
00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:21.079
of his contemporaries. It is very easy to make any

951
00:56:21.239 --> 00:56:25.280
character appear ridiculous and even culpable. But this is not

952
00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:28.400
the historical method of dealing with the reputations of men

953
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:31.280
of a former age. We of the present shall need

954
00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:34.639
a more charitable interpretation of our own opinions and acts

955
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:37.400
on a part of those who follow us. Did the

956
00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:40.440
man act well his part with the light he had?

957
00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:43.440
Did he, in a time of intense excitement, when life

958
00:56:43.480 --> 00:56:46.760
and reputation were at stake, act with reference to his

959
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:49.440
duty to God and in charity to his fellow men.

960
00:56:50.639 --> 00:56:53.280
We have set forth some minuteness the theories of such

961
00:56:53.320 --> 00:56:56.760
writers as Perkins and Bernard, because we are to meet

962
00:56:56.800 --> 00:57:00.639
with these names as authorities and the progress of our investigation.

963
00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:03.920
When the Governor and Council asked the advice of the

964
00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:07.920
clergy of Boston and a vicinity in June sixteen ninety two,

965
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:11.440
those ministers Advise and Cotton Mather drew up the advice

966
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:14.880
that there is need of very critical and exquisite caution

967
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:19.239
and recommended quote that the directions given by such judicious

968
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:23.679
writers as Perkins of Bernard may be observed in quote.

969
00:57:23.719 --> 00:57:26.599
Both the Mathers adopted the theory of these writers and

970
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:30.519
frequently made references to in quotations from them. But we

971
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:34.239
shall recur to this manner in another connection. We now

972
00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:36.880
come to consider the first case of witchcraft in which

973
00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:41.280
Cotton Mather was concerned, and of which mister Upham says, quote,

974
00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:44.400
there is reason to believe that it originated the delusion

975
00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:47.440
of Salem in quote. As the case is one of

976
00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:51.079
much importance, we shall allow Governor Hutchinson, who knew some

977
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:54.400
of the parties concerned and had conversed with others who

978
00:57:54.440 --> 00:58:01.159
were eyewitnesses, to relate to main incidents. Quote eight began

979
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:04.119
a more alarming instance than any which had preceded it.

980
00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:07.039
Four of the children of John Goodwin, a grave man

981
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:09.719
and a good liver at the north part of Boston, which.

982
00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:14.079
Please now please note he tried to make it sound like, well,

983
00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:16.840
there's been had been a constant fear, but then he

984
00:58:17.119 --> 00:58:20.800
just acknowledged that in sixteen eighty eight this case was

985
00:58:21.039 --> 00:58:23.400
far greater than anything to come before it all right,

986
00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:26.400
so oh wait, well so this is going to spark everything. Okay,

987
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:29.760
wait now wait, that's the good one case. That's the

988
00:58:29.800 --> 00:58:32.840
good one case, the one that I directly draws a

989
00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:37.519
parallel to what happened in Salem, because the parallels are staggering,

990
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:39.760
And now are they going to try to say Cotton

991
00:58:39.800 --> 00:58:42.639
Mather was not involved in the sixteen eighty eight case.

992
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:48.960
Generally believed to be bewitched. I had often heard persons

993
00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:51.599
who were of the neighborhood speak of the great consternation

994
00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:56.400
it occasioned. The children were all remarkable for ingenuity of temper,

995
00:58:56.880 --> 00:58:59.800
had been religiously educated, and we're thought to be without.

996
00:59:01.039 --> 00:59:04.079
The eldest was a girl of thirteen or fourteen years.

997
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:07.639
She had charged the laundress one Glover with taking away

998
00:59:07.719 --> 00:59:10.760
some of the family linen. The mother of the laundress

999
00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:13.239
was one of the wild Irish of bad character, and

1000
00:59:13.239 --> 00:59:16.800
gave the girl harsh language, soon after which she fell

1001
00:59:16.840 --> 00:59:20.760
into fits which were said to have something diabolical in them.

1002
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:26.079
Do you not hear one of the Irish? You can

1003
00:59:26.119 --> 00:59:29.920
already hear the prejudice and the bigotry in this, because

1004
00:59:29.960 --> 00:59:33.320
the Irish were viewed this way and of bad temper

1005
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:37.360
man don't okay, And again I don't know how this

1006
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:39.559
is excusing Cotton Mather in any way, shape or form,

1007
00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:41.400
unless they're going to try to accuse the woman who

1008
00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:43.920
was killed. Okay, I guess you're going to try to

1009
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:47.000
make her sound bad, all right, because you know she's

1010
00:59:47.079 --> 00:59:49.039
the bad one, the one, you know, the victim, the

1011
00:59:49.039 --> 00:59:52.039
one who was murdered. Okay, she's the bad one, I guess.

1012
00:59:54.239 --> 00:59:56.880
One of her sisters and two brothers followed her example,

1013
00:59:57.199 --> 00:59:59.480
and it is said we're tormented in the same part

1014
00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:02.400
of their bos at the same time, although kept in

1015
01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:06.719
separate apartments and ignorant of each other's complaint. Sometimes they

1016
01:00:06.719 --> 01:00:09.480
would be death and dumb and blind, as sometimes all

1017
01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:13.079
these disorders together would come upon them. Their tongues would

1018
01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:16.920
be drawn down their throats and pulled out upon their chins,

1019
01:00:17.440 --> 01:00:20.599
their jaws, necked, shoulders, elbows, and all their joints would

1020
01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:24.159
appear to be dislocated, and they would make most piteous

1021
01:00:24.159 --> 01:00:27.360
outcries of burnings, of being cut with knives, bead and

1022
01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:30.400
so on, and the marks of wounds were afterwards to

1023
01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:33.880
be seen. The ministers of Boston and Charleston kept a

1024
01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:37.679
day of fasting and prayer at the troubled house, after

1025
01:00:37.719 --> 01:00:41.400
which the young child made no more complaints. The others

1026
01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:44.719
persevered in the magistrates and interpose, and the old woman

1027
01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:49.199
was apprehended, but upon examination would neither confesst nor to deny,

1028
01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:53.320
and appear to be disordered in her senses. Upon the

1029
01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:57.280
report of physicians, she was executed, declaring at her death

1030
01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:00.639
that children should not be relieved. The elder after this

1031
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:05.400
was taken into a minister's Mister Mather's family, where at

1032
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:08.280
first she behaved orderly, but after some time fell into

1033
01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:11.280
her fits. The account of her affliction is in print.

1034
01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:15.119
Mather's memorable providence is sixteen eighty nine.

1035
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:20.119
Yeah, Mather puts it in a book. Now, mean, when

1036
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:23.039
they went through that really quick, they talked about how ministers,

1037
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:25.280
but they didn't name any. Then they finally named Mather.

1038
01:01:25.719 --> 01:01:28.239
Mather was directly involved in the Goodwin case and personally

1039
01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:34.320
oversaw the interrogation of Anne Glover. Kind of left that

1040
01:01:34.400 --> 01:01:37.119
part out, didn't they.

1041
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:41.119
Some things are mentioned as extraordinary, which tumblers are taught

1042
01:01:41.119 --> 01:01:44.320
every day to perform. Others are more natural. But it

1043
01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:48.000
was a time of great credulity. In quote History of Massachusetts,

1044
01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:52.039
Volume two, pages twenty four to twenty six. In his

1045
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:54.840
lectures of eighteen thirty one, which have given the queue

1046
01:01:54.880 --> 01:01:59.480
to all subsequent writers, Upham states, as an historical fact

1047
01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:02.519
at the good human case was quote brought about by

1048
01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:06.840
his Cotton Mathers management end quote. Now, if mister Upham

1049
01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:09.280
had not read the little evidence there is in this case,

1050
01:02:09.320 --> 01:02:12.639
he was chargeable with a negligence and recklessness of statement

1051
01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:16.280
which we do not like to characterize, and thus selling

1052
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:19.280
the reputation of a member of his own profession who

1053
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:22.119
was not living to make answer if he had read

1054
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:25.119
the evidence. But the case is not a supposable one.

1055
01:02:25.480 --> 01:02:27.800
No one who knows mister Upham will for a moment

1056
01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:31.719
imagine that he would consciously make a misstatement or suppress

1057
01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:34.639
any evidence which he deemed essential to a proper estimate

1058
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:37.840
of a character of which he was treating. We think

1059
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:41.039
it proper to make this explicit avowal here, for we

1060
01:02:41.079 --> 01:02:44.360
shall often have occasion to question his facts and scrutinize

1061
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:48.760
his authorities, as well as challenge his reasoning. There is

1062
01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:52.039
no more unsafe and perilous task than the writing of

1063
01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:56.239
history with a theory to maintain if a preconceived opinion

1064
01:02:56.280 --> 01:02:59.039
be strong and active, it must be controlled by no

1065
01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:02.519
common love of truth and justice, not to render the

1066
01:03:02.559 --> 01:03:06.440
person holding it disqualified, even for the examination of authorities.

1067
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:10.400
Everything which comes under his eye only strengthens his opinion.

1068
01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:13.400
The case seems to him so plain that he considers

1069
01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:16.960
it unnecessary to look up rare and forgotten pamphlets and

1070
01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:20.800
pour over musty manuscripts in the obscure choreography of two

1071
01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:24.920
centuries ago, for the purpose of verifying a date or

1072
01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:27.360
explaining the motives of a person on whom he is

1073
01:03:27.400 --> 01:03:31.760
to pass judgment. Mister Upham can never have seen quote

1074
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:35.639
some few remarks upon a scandalous book by one Robert

1075
01:03:35.719 --> 01:03:39.559
Calef in quote Boston, seventeen oh one, which was written

1076
01:03:39.559 --> 01:03:42.519
by the parishoners of the Second Boston Church as a

1077
01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:46.280
apply to caless charges against mister Mather. Neither can he

1078
01:03:46.360 --> 01:03:50.360
have seen quote some miscellaneous observations on the present debates

1079
01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:55.760
respecting witchcrafts in quote sixteen ninety two, nor increase Mathers

1080
01:03:55.840 --> 01:04:00.360
cases of conscience concerning witchcrafts sixteen ninety three. Or if

1081
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:02.920
he had seen these very important tracks, he would, with

1082
01:04:03.039 --> 01:04:06.400
his integrity of purpose, have quoted from them. The evidence

1083
01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:08.480
to upset is all theory.

1084
01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:14.000
Give me the evidence that up ends his whole theory.

1085
01:04:17.239 --> 01:04:20.079
You clearly have already attached Cotton Mather to the case

1086
01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:22.840
in Boston. You've already said that the case in Boston

1087
01:04:22.960 --> 01:04:26.119
was extraordinary above the others before it. So that and

1088
01:04:26.159 --> 01:04:29.159
it happens four years before Salem, four years and you,

1089
01:04:29.880 --> 01:04:32.280
I guess you're just gonna kind of leave out that

1090
01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:35.199
that book that Mather writes is about what happened in

1091
01:04:35.320 --> 01:04:39.679
Boston becomes the blueprint exactly for what happened in Salem.

1092
01:04:39.719 --> 01:04:45.199
I I this comes from a seminary. I just I

1093
01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:47.039
don't get it. I don't get all right, I'm gonna

1094
01:04:47.039 --> 01:04:48.480
I'm kinda trying to let this play out. I know

1095
01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:50.599
we're already over an hour, but at this point I

1096
01:04:50.639 --> 01:04:52.400
have to finish this. I don't know what else to say.

1097
01:04:52.400 --> 01:04:55.800
This is just like, this is what's provided as evidence.

1098
01:04:56.599 --> 01:05:00.000
It's just reading, and it's like no explanation.

1099
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:05.000
Should know nothing, But he has read Cotton Mather's diary,

1100
01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:08.880
which is full of penitential confessions and acknowledgments to himself

1101
01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:13.639
and his maker of Manifold transgressions of pride vanity, hardness

1102
01:05:13.719 --> 01:05:17.880
of heart, imprudent zeal, and unworthiness in his master's service.

1103
01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:23.000
These confessions mister Upham regards as historical evidence. Such a

1104
01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:25.559
use of the confessional, we believe is not common with

1105
01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:29.800
historical writers. Before such a touchstone, any devout man who

1106
01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:33.880
keeps a diary will inevitably fall, since a more devout

1107
01:05:33.960 --> 01:05:37.840
he is, a more self deprecatory will be his confessions.

1108
01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:42.199
Under this test, the apostles to the gentiles himself becomes

1109
01:05:42.239 --> 01:05:45.800
the chief of sinners. No historian has a moral right

1110
01:05:45.880 --> 01:05:48.679
to assel the character of a man who bore a

1111
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:51.920
good reputation in the stay without an exhaustive and candid

1112
01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:56.239
examination of authorities, such an examination which will show that

1113
01:05:56.280 --> 01:05:59.800
mister Upham has not made in the case of Cotton Mather,

1114
01:06:00.440 --> 01:06:02.480
and that he has used the facts which have come

1115
01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:06.400
under his observation with a strong bias against mister Mather

1116
01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:11.239
as a man of integrity in veracity. Mister Upham does

1117
01:06:11.239 --> 01:06:14.239
not bring a particle of evidence or quote a single

1118
01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:17.880
authority in proof of his allegations that the Goodwin case

1119
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:21.440
is brought about by Cotton Mathers management. End quote.

1120
01:06:23.199 --> 01:06:26.320
No one said, well, you may be arguing that someone

1121
01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:29.599
said Cotton mather brought about the case and it was

1122
01:06:29.639 --> 01:06:32.920
by his management. No one said that, or at least

1123
01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:36.199
I have it. The person you're quoting, maybe, but that's

1124
01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:38.039
not if you're going to really deal with this in

1125
01:06:38.079 --> 01:06:39.760
any meaningful way, You're going to deal with the fact.

1126
01:06:39.800 --> 01:06:42.159
What do people say about Cotton Mathers' involvement in the

1127
01:06:42.199 --> 01:06:45.000
Boston case That he was there, he was a part

1128
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:49.239
of the interrogation, he was you can't remove him from it,

1129
01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:51.360
and then he wrote about it, and then his book

1130
01:06:51.519 --> 01:06:54.760
is the blueprint for what happens in Salem? And what's

1131
01:06:54.800 --> 01:06:57.360
this he's going to talk about? The diary? Obviously, the

1132
01:06:57.400 --> 01:07:01.280
implication is a Mather did not confess in his diary.

1133
01:07:01.519 --> 01:07:05.400
Why would he confess Mather thought he was right, That's

1134
01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:08.199
why he never repents of it. Why would he repent

1135
01:07:08.239 --> 01:07:10.679
on something in his diary that he would never repent

1136
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:14.000
of publicly. Now maybe now, sometimes it is true that

1137
01:07:14.039 --> 01:07:16.039
you may repent of something in your diary that you

1138
01:07:16.119 --> 01:07:18.800
don't repent of something publicly. That's very I guess that

1139
01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:21.360
is more common. But the point is, just because there's

1140
01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:23.360
nothing in his diary, you can't use that as c

1141
01:07:24.320 --> 01:07:27.480
Mather didn't do anything wrong. It may demonstrate that it's

1142
01:07:27.519 --> 01:07:29.159
not in his diary because he didn't believe he did

1143
01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:31.760
anything wrong. With believing you do something wrong and doing

1144
01:07:31.800 --> 01:07:33.800
something wrong or not the same thing. And you're going

1145
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:37.559
to judge what happened in history based off what's not

1146
01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:40.559
in a diary. This is the most ridiculous thing. This

1147
01:07:40.639 --> 01:07:44.760
is a seminary. Hey, if it's not it, so, hey, guys,

1148
01:07:45.159 --> 01:07:48.199
anything you think I've ever done wrong? Here right over here.

1149
01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:52.920
I have a journal diary right here, right here. Oh,

1150
01:07:52.960 --> 01:07:55.159
I have another one down here. Hey. If I don't

1151
01:07:55.199 --> 01:08:00.679
confess it in this, I didn't do it. Only what's

1152
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:03.639
in my diary, you can you can hold me accountable

1153
01:08:03.639 --> 01:08:05.239
for what is that nonsense?

1154
01:08:07.920 --> 01:08:12.119
An allegation which he accompanies by others equally unsupported. He says,

1155
01:08:12.199 --> 01:08:15.559
quote doctor Cotton Mather aspired to be considered the great

1156
01:08:15.639 --> 01:08:19.640
champion of the Church and a most successful combatant against

1157
01:08:19.640 --> 01:08:22.239
the prints of the power of the air. He seems

1158
01:08:22.279 --> 01:08:25.119
to have longed for an opportunity to signalize himself in

1159
01:08:25.119 --> 01:08:29.359
this particular kind of warfare, and repeatedly endeavored to get

1160
01:08:29.399 --> 01:08:33.159
up a delusion of this kind in Boston, an instance

1161
01:08:33.159 --> 01:08:36.319
of witchcrafts was brought about by his management in sixteen

1162
01:08:36.359 --> 01:08:39.239
eighty eight. There's some drown for suspicion that he was

1163
01:08:39.279 --> 01:08:43.000
instrumental in causing the delusion in Salem. At any rate,

1164
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:45.840
he took a leading part in conducting it. In Quote Lectures,

1165
01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:48.920
pages one oh six and one oh seven, the same

1166
01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:52.520
statements in almost the same words he reproduces in his

1167
01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:57.199
History Volume two, page three sixty six. Mister John Goodwin,

1168
01:08:57.279 --> 01:08:59.600
the father of the afflicted children, told the story of

1169
01:08:59.680 --> 01:09:03.560
his domestic trials over his own name in Mather's Memorable

1170
01:09:03.640 --> 01:09:07.680
Providence of sixteen eighty nine, page forty six. He describes

1171
01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:09.880
how the first child was taken, then a second, and

1172
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:13.640
later two others. Friends were called in and afterwards physicians,

1173
01:09:13.760 --> 01:09:17.199
but no relief came. He then says, quote, now, I,

1174
01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:20.239
considering my affliction to be more than ordinary, it did

1175
01:09:20.279 --> 01:09:24.560
certainly call for me more than ordinary prayer. I appointed

1176
01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:29.319
mister Allen, mister Moody, mister Willard, and mister Cotton Mather,

1177
01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:32.199
the four ministers of the town with it, and mister

1178
01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:36.239
Morton of Charleston, earnestly desiring them that they, with some

1179
01:09:36.359 --> 01:09:39.039
other praying people of God, would meet at my house,

1180
01:09:39.439 --> 01:09:41.640
and there be earnest with God on the behalf of

1181
01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:45.800
myself and my children. End. Quote de Cotton Massther have

1182
01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:48.079
anything to do with the case before he was called

1183
01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:51.439
in with four other clergymen, after the affair had been

1184
01:09:51.479 --> 01:09:55.600
going on for some time, and physicians and sympathizing friends

1185
01:09:55.960 --> 01:09:59.239
had given no relief. Mister Upham must show this or

1186
01:09:59.279 --> 01:10:04.079
his accusation fails. Twelve years afterwards, Robert Califf, between whom

1187
01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:07.920
and mister Masther, a personal quarrel existed, and many bitter

1188
01:10:07.960 --> 01:10:11.359
words had passed published as more Wonders of the Invisible World,

1189
01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:14.000
in which he says, page one hundred and fifty two,

1190
01:10:14.159 --> 01:10:17.439
quote mister Cotton Mather was the most active and forward

1191
01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:20.680
of any minister in the country. And these goodwin matters

1192
01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:24.000
taking home one of the children and managing such intrigues

1193
01:10:24.039 --> 01:10:26.880
with that child, and after printing such an account of

1194
01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:30.439
the whole and as memorable providences, has conduced much to

1195
01:10:30.520 --> 01:10:33.720
the kindling those flames that in Sir William's time threatened

1196
01:10:33.720 --> 01:10:37.560
to devouring this country. And quote Mishell in another place

1197
01:10:37.560 --> 01:10:40.199
speak of the value to be set upon Caleff's statements

1198
01:10:40.239 --> 01:10:45.479
respecting mister Mather. Soon upon Caleff's book appeared, the parishioners

1199
01:10:45.520 --> 01:10:48.600
of mister Mather took up this accusation, and in some

1200
01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:52.960
few remarks seventeen oh one, which mister Upphamus never seen,

1201
01:10:53.399 --> 01:10:56.520
proved it to be a downright falsehood. One of the

1202
01:10:56.560 --> 01:10:59.479
seven persons who prepared to reply with John Goodwin, the

1203
01:10:59.520 --> 01:11:02.439
father of the children, he makes over his own name

1204
01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:06.359
a further statement, which we give entire Let the world

1205
01:11:06.359 --> 01:11:09.199
be informed that when one of my children had been

1206
01:11:09.239 --> 01:11:12.520
laboring under sad circumstances from the invisible world for about

1207
01:11:12.520 --> 01:11:15.359
a quarter of a year, I desired the ministers of

1208
01:11:15.399 --> 01:11:18.359
Boston with Charleston to keep a day of prayer in

1209
01:11:18.439 --> 01:11:22.199
my house, if so be deliverance might be obtained. Mister

1210
01:11:22.239 --> 01:11:24.520
Cotton Mather was the last of the ministers that I

1211
01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:27.239
spoke to on that occasion, and though by reason of

1212
01:11:27.279 --> 01:11:31.119
some necessary business he could not attend, yet he came

1213
01:11:31.159 --> 01:11:33.439
to my house in the morning of that day and

1214
01:11:33.520 --> 01:11:35.600
tarried about half an hour, and went to prayer with

1215
01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:39.359
us before any other minister came. Never before had I

1216
01:11:39.520 --> 01:11:42.840
the least acquaintance with him. About two or three months

1217
01:11:42.920 --> 01:11:45.439
after this, I desired that another day of prayer might

1218
01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:55.199
be kept by the aforesaid ministers, which accordingly they did.

1219
01:11:57.479 --> 01:12:00.520
Does anyone know what's going on anymore? It's just like

1220
01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:03.079
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

1221
01:12:03.119 --> 01:12:05.439
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

1222
01:12:05.479 --> 01:12:09.640
blah blah blah. Nothing is even being broken down in

1223
01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:14.079
any way. She proved he's not he's steel like, Well,

1224
01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:17.039
this person made an accusition and this is not really

1225
01:12:17.039 --> 01:12:19.079
accurate unless he can prove this. But I don't have

1226
01:12:19.119 --> 01:12:21.800
any evidence to disprove that. I'm just gonna say that

1227
01:12:21.800 --> 01:12:25.199
that's not true. But it's not dealing with all the

1228
01:12:26.439 --> 01:12:29.039
insurmountable evidence, and he's still living. He dealt with the

1229
01:12:29.079 --> 01:12:33.600
fact as long as I could. God Mather was literally

1230
01:12:33.640 --> 01:12:35.800
at the execute. Okay, I don't I don't get it.

1231
01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:41.319
I don't get it, adding mister Cotton Mather was then present,

1232
01:12:41.800 --> 01:12:44.720
But he never gave me the least advice, neither face

1233
01:12:44.760 --> 01:12:49.079
to face nor by way of epistles, neither directly nor indirectly.

1234
01:12:49.520 --> 01:12:52.279
But the motion of going to the authority was made

1235
01:12:52.319 --> 01:12:55.399
to me by a minister of a neighboring town now departed,

1236
01:12:56.640 --> 01:12:59.439
and manners were managed by me in prosecution of the

1237
01:12:59.560 --> 01:13:03.039
supposed the criminal, wholly without the advice of any minister,

1238
01:13:03.199 --> 01:13:06.840
or lawyer, or any other person. The ministers would now

1239
01:13:06.880 --> 01:13:09.840
and then come to visit my distressed family and pray

1240
01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:13.279
with and for them, among which mister Cotton Mather would

1241
01:13:13.279 --> 01:13:15.560
now and then come and go to prayer with us.

1242
01:13:15.800 --> 01:13:18.520
Yet all that time he never advised me to anything

1243
01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:22.039
concerning the law or trial of the accused person. But

1244
01:13:22.159 --> 01:13:25.119
after that wicked woman had been condemned about a fortnight,

1245
01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:28.239
mister Cotton Mather invited one of my children to his house,

1246
01:13:28.279 --> 01:13:31.000
and within a day or two after that, the woman

1247
01:13:31.119 --> 01:13:35.840
was executed. In quote John Goodwin in vindication of Cotton Mather,

1248
01:13:36.079 --> 01:13:38.680
the writers of some few Remarks, which we said was

1249
01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:42.479
from seventeen oh one said quote, now, behold how active

1250
01:13:42.680 --> 01:13:46.600
and forward Cotton Mather was in transacting the affairs relating

1251
01:13:46.640 --> 01:13:50.159
to this woman, And be astonished that ever anyone should

1252
01:13:50.199 --> 01:13:53.119
go to insinuate such things to the world as are

1253
01:13:53.199 --> 01:13:55.760
known by most had ever heard of those afflicted children

1254
01:13:55.840 --> 01:13:59.239
to be so far different from the truth? End quote

1255
01:14:00.199 --> 01:14:04.319
Cotton Mather, according to his custom, with all prisoners visited

1256
01:14:04.359 --> 01:14:08.399
the Glover Woman twice after her condemnation, not in the

1257
01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:12.319
spirit of an inquisitor, but as a spiritual adviser. She

1258
01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:15.399
never denied to him the guilt of witchcraft, but as

1259
01:14:15.439 --> 01:14:19.199
to her confessions about confederacies with the devil, she only

1260
01:14:19.279 --> 01:14:21.560
said that she used to be at meetings at which

1261
01:14:21.560 --> 01:14:25.399
her prince and four more were present. She told him

1262
01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:28.680
who the four persons were, and as to her prince quote,

1263
01:14:28.760 --> 01:14:32.840
her account plainly was that he was a devil quote. Cotton.

1264
01:14:32.840 --> 01:14:36.000
Mather asked her many questions in reply to which, after

1265
01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:39.000
a long silence, she said she would fain give full answers,

1266
01:14:39.479 --> 01:14:43.239
but they would not let her. They who were they?

1267
01:14:43.960 --> 01:14:46.680
She replied that they were her spirits or her saints.

1268
01:14:47.159 --> 01:14:50.119
He advised her to break her covenant with hell. She

1269
01:14:50.239 --> 01:14:52.880
answered that he spoke a very reasonable thing, but that

1270
01:14:53.000 --> 01:14:54.199
she could not do it.

1271
01:14:56.000 --> 01:14:56.199
Wait.

1272
01:14:56.199 --> 01:14:57.960
They try to make it sound like he wasn't involved

1273
01:14:57.960 --> 01:15:00.520
in the Goodwin case, and here it is. It sound

1274
01:15:00.560 --> 01:15:02.880
like he was very much involved. He wouldn't talk to

1275
01:15:02.920 --> 01:15:06.760
her in prison, supposedly hearing these supposed stories. Oh and

1276
01:15:07.199 --> 01:15:10.720
well those visits he was also the interrogator. Oh and

1277
01:15:10.760 --> 01:15:12.680
he also wrote about it all. But I thought he

1278
01:15:12.760 --> 01:15:16.720
wasn't really involved. So yeah, he was very very much involved,

1279
01:15:16.760 --> 01:15:18.359
and he wrote it in his book, and his book

1280
01:15:18.399 --> 01:15:20.960
becomes the blueprint for what happened in Salem. How was

1281
01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:22.199
this proving anything?

1282
01:15:24.800 --> 01:15:26.600
He offered a pray with her and asked her to

1283
01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:29.960
pray for herself. She replied that she could not unless

1284
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:33.319
her spirits would give her leave. However, Cotton Mather said,

1285
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:37.079
against her will, I prayed with her, which, if it

1286
01:15:37.159 --> 01:15:41.239
were a fault, it was an excess of pity. Cotton

1287
01:15:41.239 --> 01:15:43.680
Mather never revealed the names of the persons whom she

1288
01:15:43.920 --> 01:15:46.920
or others accused for. He said, we should be very

1289
01:15:46.960 --> 01:15:49.880
tender in such relation unless we wrong the reputation of

1290
01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:54.319
the innocent by stories not enough inquired into. I cannot

1291
01:15:54.319 --> 01:15:57.720
resist a conviction, says mister Upham. Quote that he looked

1292
01:15:57.760 --> 01:16:01.560
upon the occurrences and the Salem trial with secret pleasure

1293
01:16:01.880 --> 01:16:03.880
and would have been glad to have had them repeated

1294
01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:07.239
in Boston. Quote, well, well, then, why did not Cotton

1295
01:16:07.279 --> 01:16:09.720
Metho divulge the names of the person's accused by the

1296
01:16:09.720 --> 01:16:13.520
Glover woman. He had to manner entirely in his own hands.

1297
01:16:15.680 --> 01:16:17.920
And you and you can, you can argue, oh, he

1298
01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:20.640
did something good here, Well, why didn't he intervene and

1299
01:16:20.680 --> 01:16:23.840
stop the killing of Burrows? Oh wait, he didn't. Oh wait,

1300
01:16:23.920 --> 01:16:28.760
and and oh yeah and Glover hmm, oh yeah, they

1301
01:16:28.840 --> 01:16:31.439
finally come back after him, like oops, we all made

1302
01:16:31.479 --> 01:16:33.920
a mistake, right, that's why there's an an Glover Day

1303
01:16:34.039 --> 01:16:39.319
in Boston right on the anniversary of her murder. So

1304
01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:41.640
even if he didn't say, well, she gave me some

1305
01:16:41.680 --> 01:16:43.600
more names. But I'm not going to give out these names,

1306
01:16:43.600 --> 01:16:45.920
and why wouldn't you? And that doesn't even make any sense.

1307
01:16:46.000 --> 01:16:49.359
If you're worried that ooh, New England's under attack, Boston

1308
01:16:49.439 --> 01:16:51.760
is under attack from Satan and she gives you four names,

1309
01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:53.560
four more names, You're not going to do any more

1310
01:16:54.159 --> 01:16:57.319
investigating in any way, shape or form. You're just gonna like, well,

1311
01:16:57.359 --> 01:17:00.560
you know, well, we just got to be careful. That's it.

1312
01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:04.880
It seems kind of odd to me, all right, did

1313
01:17:07.159 --> 01:17:09.000
I am I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look this.

1314
01:17:09.159 --> 01:17:20.079
I am confused by the story of Anne Glover supposedly

1315
01:17:23.319 --> 01:17:43.800
giving four names of other witches. Uh to Cotton Mather. Okay,

1316
01:17:43.880 --> 01:17:46.039
let me see here, if we can get some information

1317
01:17:46.119 --> 01:17:56.000
here because this part of it, I'm like, yes, did

1318
01:17:56.039 --> 01:17:57.039
it happen.

1319
01:17:59.760 --> 01:17:59.880
One?

1320
01:18:00.119 --> 01:18:12.680
I did Cotton Mather, who believed the area was under

1321
01:18:13.359 --> 01:18:25.800
satanic okay, hang On, who believed area was under satanic attack,

1322
01:18:27.760 --> 01:18:34.439
did nothing with the names. All Right, here we go.

1323
01:18:36.239 --> 01:18:37.960
I'm gonna see if we can get some more information

1324
01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:47.600
on this because I wasn't completely familiar. Okay, all right, Well,

1325
01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:51.039
AI is currently starting research. All right, So I don't

1326
01:18:51.039 --> 01:18:52.800
know if we're going to get an answer immediately. I

1327
01:18:52.840 --> 01:18:55.800
have not heard this particular case. I'm a little I'm

1328
01:18:55.840 --> 01:19:05.119
a little bit perplexed here. I'm a little bit perplexed here. Okay,

1329
01:19:05.439 --> 01:19:10.199
So AI is currently telling me I am piercing together

1330
01:19:10.279 --> 01:19:13.000
if Anne Goodie Glover provided four names of other witches

1331
01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:21.760
to Cotton Mather in sixteen eighty eight detecting a Satanic threat. Okay,

1332
01:19:21.920 --> 01:19:27.720
So it's finding sources, it's accessing the situation. AI here

1333
01:19:27.800 --> 01:19:31.079
is doing a deep research because I went for deep

1334
01:19:31.119 --> 01:19:34.680
research on this. I clicked the deep research button on this,

1335
01:19:37.199 --> 01:19:39.520
and which is a new feature I think on chat GPT.

1336
01:19:39.680 --> 01:19:41.640
So I went for deep research. I probably shouldn't have

1337
01:19:41.680 --> 01:19:45.119
done the deep research one, but that's okay. Now they're

1338
01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:50.279
up to four sources. I've not heard this claim, but

1339
01:19:50.319 --> 01:19:53.079
it just makes no sense. Hey, she gave us this name.

1340
01:19:53.159 --> 01:19:55.199
But look at Cotton Mather. He was such a great guy.

1341
01:19:55.399 --> 01:19:57.279
He didn't do anything well. If he was such a

1342
01:19:57.279 --> 01:19:59.880
great guy and he's so worried about a Satanic at

1343
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:02.880
back upon Boston and the New England, then you think

1344
01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:06.880
you'd be like, guys, we've got a problem. But no, nothing,

1345
01:20:07.600 --> 01:20:10.000
He just I guess writes about it in his book.

1346
01:20:10.920 --> 01:20:17.800
We up to seven sources. All right, we'll go ahead

1347
01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:19.640
and finish. Listen to this, and then I'll come back

1348
01:20:19.640 --> 01:20:20.920
and tell you what I find here.

1349
01:20:22.159 --> 01:20:25.119
He could have indulged a desire here ascribed to him,

1350
01:20:25.399 --> 01:20:28.000
to his heart's content, but we know he did not

1351
01:20:28.199 --> 01:20:30.840
manifest such a spirit, And we are forced to inquire

1352
01:20:31.119 --> 01:20:35.960
by what methods of historical investigation mister Upham proceeds when

1353
01:20:35.960 --> 01:20:39.560
he makes such assertions without examination of the most important

1354
01:20:39.600 --> 01:20:44.279
documents here adduced. Time we have for this podcast, but

1355
01:20:44.359 --> 01:20:48.560
for further research, I recommend a book called The math

1356
01:20:48.680 --> 01:20:52.800
Or Family by Enoch Pond, who was the professor of

1357
01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:55.600
theology in Mangor Theological.

1358
01:20:56.600 --> 01:20:58.920
Hey, We're only going to recommend a book that will

1359
01:20:59.039 --> 01:21:04.199
continue tolidate or vindicate or or somehow say Cotton Mather

1360
01:21:04.359 --> 01:21:06.319
was a great guy. All the other information and we

1361
01:21:06.720 --> 01:21:08.600
only want you to read these old books, say, we

1362
01:21:08.600 --> 01:21:10.319
don't want you to do any research. And I don't

1363
01:21:10.319 --> 01:21:13.960
know the tons of information about the Salem witch trials.

1364
01:21:14.960 --> 01:21:16.760
That is crazy. I don't even know what any of

1365
01:21:16.800 --> 01:21:22.199
that was. I'm now up to eighteen sources. I'm looking

1366
01:21:22.239 --> 01:21:29.560
here to see what we have here. Okay, okay, it

1367
01:21:29.600 --> 01:21:34.119
says here, I know, I'm up to twenty sources. I'm

1368
01:21:34.199 --> 01:21:38.119
up to twenty sources, AI is saying, expressing uncertainty about

1369
01:21:38.119 --> 01:21:41.720
the search results, mentioning possibilities like no content found or

1370
01:21:41.840 --> 01:21:54.079
just listing files. All right, okay, okay, it says, and Glover,

1371
01:21:54.319 --> 01:21:57.479
this is one source did during her trial, likely did

1372
01:21:57.520 --> 01:21:59.680
not provide names of other witches to Cotton Mather. This

1373
01:21:59.720 --> 01:22:02.640
seems to be suggested by accounts of her refusal to

1374
01:22:02.760 --> 01:22:06.880
name others. All right, I'm up to twenty one sources. Now.

1375
01:22:07.239 --> 01:22:10.520
Now I'm looking at the Salem Witch Museum. I'm gathering

1376
01:22:10.600 --> 01:22:14.000
info and a Glover, which is four names, matth Or Boston.

1377
01:22:15.079 --> 01:22:20.479
I'm an examining sources on Massachusetts. Which witch hysteria, specifically

1378
01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:30.600
Good Wife Glover and her possible myth around naming names. Okay,

1379
01:22:31.520 --> 01:22:35.960
I'm up to twenty two sources. I'm piercing together phrases.

1380
01:22:36.000 --> 01:22:41.319
I'm mapping out here. It gives me artificial intelligence, gives

1381
01:22:41.359 --> 01:22:51.079
me everything it's doing. Okay, Okay, now now it's looking

1382
01:22:51.119 --> 01:22:58.920
at the University of Michigan. Okay, Okay, it's so far.

1383
01:22:58.920 --> 01:23:01.079
I'm up to twenty three source. It's not it's not

1384
01:23:01.119 --> 01:23:05.840
gotten anything as of right now about this supposed claim. Now,

1385
01:23:05.840 --> 01:23:08.600
they're their whole argument as well, because Cotton Mather didn't Nay,

1386
01:23:08.680 --> 01:23:11.159
isn't it interesting? She names the names, but Cotton Mather's like,

1387
01:23:11.199 --> 01:23:13.720
I'm not going to give you the names. Well, okay,

1388
01:23:13.760 --> 01:23:19.000
so then she's dead. So Cotton Mather can what she's dead.

1389
01:23:19.000 --> 01:23:21.359
Cotton Mather can say anything. Well, she gave me a

1390
01:23:21.479 --> 01:23:23.880
name of seventy five, but I'm not going to give

1391
01:23:23.920 --> 01:23:26.560
the names because we don't want to because I'm gonna

1392
01:23:26.600 --> 01:23:32.479
demonstrate how cautious I am. Yeah, the other other woman

1393
01:23:32.600 --> 01:23:37.039
is dead. Okay, we we can't verify it because y'all

1394
01:23:37.079 --> 01:23:44.600
had her executed for being a witch. All right, man,

1395
01:23:44.680 --> 01:23:50.119
This deep research function on chat GPT is crazy. I'm

1396
01:23:50.159 --> 01:23:52.760
never because it if you don't do the deep research,

1397
01:23:52.800 --> 01:23:54.840
you may get something in about five seconds. If you

1398
01:23:54.880 --> 01:23:58.159
do the deep research, it takes a long time. So

1399
01:23:58.239 --> 01:24:03.039
at this point we're not I'm not getting anything. But

1400
01:24:03.319 --> 01:24:05.119
I was looking at what it's doing in real time

1401
01:24:05.159 --> 01:24:06.920
because you can click on details and it will show

1402
01:24:06.920 --> 01:24:10.039
you every little step it's taking, like literally what it's

1403
01:24:10.039 --> 01:24:11.920
looking at, which is really cool. You get to kind

1404
01:24:11.960 --> 01:24:14.439
of see behind the curtain of what AI is out

1405
01:24:14.439 --> 01:24:17.119
there trying to look for. So I love that function.

1406
01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:23.840
All right, here we go. In sixteen eighty eight, four

1407
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:26.720
of the six children of Boston mason John Goodwin began

1408
01:24:26.840 --> 01:24:32.439
suffering mysterious suffering mysterious fits after dispute with the family's

1409
01:24:32.479 --> 01:24:38.039
Irish washwoman Goody, Goodwife Glover, and her daughter Goodie. Glover.

1410
01:24:38.319 --> 01:24:41.399
An elderly impoverished Irish Catholic, was an easy target, and

1411
01:24:41.439 --> 01:24:44.680
Puritan Boston Reverend Cotton Mather, a twenty five year old minister,

1412
01:24:44.760 --> 01:24:47.520
took keen interest in the case and documented the strange

1413
01:24:47.560 --> 01:24:50.600
afflictions in detail. All of that's from the Salem Witch Museum,

1414
01:24:50.600 --> 01:24:54.520
which I have been to. All right, then it gives

1415
01:24:54.560 --> 01:24:59.439
me more information here. This comes from the Congregational Library

1416
01:25:00.079 --> 01:25:03.760
later published Memorable Providence relating to Witchcrafts and Possessions describing

1417
01:25:03.760 --> 01:25:07.239
the Goodwin Children's torments and Glover's subsequent witchcraft trial. This

1418
01:25:07.359 --> 01:25:10.439
incident was, for Matthew dramatic evidence of the looming threats

1419
01:25:10.520 --> 01:25:12.920
of the invisible world and powers of the devil at

1420
01:25:12.920 --> 01:25:16.680
work in Boston. The community was already primed to see

1421
01:25:16.680 --> 01:25:23.239
witchcraft as hellish reality. It says this grew this convinced.

1422
01:25:23.319 --> 01:25:26.720
They were convinced Satan was attacking their godly society through witchcraft.

1423
01:25:26.760 --> 01:25:30.359
Glover was arrested put on trial for bewitching the Goodwin children.

1424
01:25:31.479 --> 01:25:34.720
At Glover's trial in late sixteen eighty eight, several classic

1425
01:25:34.720 --> 01:25:37.760
witchcraft proofs emerged. She could not recite the Lord's prayer

1426
01:25:39.039 --> 01:25:41.640
a falling, a felling often viewed as a witch's mark.

1427
01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:46.520
Investigators found poppets, dolls with goat hair, and other ingredients

1428
01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:50.199
in her home. Under questioning with a translator, Glover primarily

1429
01:25:50.239 --> 01:25:54.760
spoke Irish Gaelic. The confused woman's essentially confessed to witchcraft.

1430
01:25:55.840 --> 01:25:59.520
Any with any direct answers hard to obtain until she

1431
01:25:59.560 --> 01:26:03.199
eventually pleaded with confession rather than denial of her guilt

1432
01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:05.520
because it sounds like they were having a major problem

1433
01:26:05.560 --> 01:26:07.720
trying to communicate with her, which only makes the case

1434
01:26:07.760 --> 01:26:10.720
even that much more messed up. Right, a panel of

1435
01:26:10.720 --> 01:26:14.760
physicians deemed her sane, and the court convicted Glover of witchcraft,

1436
01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:18.439
sentencing her to hang. If I remember correctly, one physician said,

1437
01:26:18.520 --> 01:26:21.600
what are you guys doing here? Right before her execution,

1438
01:26:22.039 --> 01:26:25.720
Mather twice visited the imprisoned Glover, using an interpreter to

1439
01:26:25.920 --> 01:26:30.239
probe deeper into her witchcraft claims. According to Mather's own account,

1440
01:26:30.600 --> 01:26:33.479
Glover never denied her witchcraft, but she was reluctant to

1441
01:26:33.520 --> 01:26:37.760
elaborate on details of her magical accomplishes. She eventually admitted

1442
01:26:37.760 --> 01:26:42.119
that she attended meetings with what Mather took to be

1443
01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:45.359
the Devil and four other witches. However, when Mather pressed

1444
01:26:45.399 --> 01:26:48.079
her for more information, Glover fell silent and a long time,

1445
01:26:48.119 --> 01:26:50.560
and finally said they would not give her leave to answer.

1446
01:26:50.760 --> 01:26:53.960
In other words, some force spirit or saint, using an

1447
01:26:54.000 --> 01:26:56.760
Irish word that Mather notes could mean either, prevented her

1448
01:26:56.800 --> 01:26:59.680
from divulging more. Mather interpreted this as Glover being in

1449
01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:01.920
lead with the Prince of Darkness, the devil and a

1450
01:27:01.960 --> 01:27:05.600
coven of four fellow witches. Though it's possible possible that

1451
01:27:05.640 --> 01:27:09.199
Glover's words were misunderstood due to translation from her Catholic

1452
01:27:09.199 --> 01:27:12.520
frame of reference. One historian suggests she may have met

1453
01:27:12.560 --> 01:27:15.479
a Catholic gathering with her prince and four more, a

1454
01:27:15.520 --> 01:27:17.880
religious meeting led by a priest or a lay leader,

1455
01:27:18.159 --> 01:27:22.560
rather than a diabolical pact. But please note there's did

1456
01:27:22.840 --> 01:27:26.680
and then did she give four names? Despite later legends,

1457
01:27:26.680 --> 01:27:29.680
Glover did not explicitly provide four names of other witches

1458
01:27:29.680 --> 01:27:32.560
to Cotton, Mather or the court. She acknowledged the existence

1459
01:27:32.560 --> 01:27:35.520
of four others involved in afflicting the children, but crucially

1460
01:27:35.600 --> 01:27:39.119
never identified them by name. When asked who her coherts were,

1461
01:27:39.279 --> 01:27:41.680
Glover would either refuse to say or claim she was

1462
01:27:41.760 --> 01:27:44.760
unable to matth records that she would not answer because

1463
01:27:44.800 --> 01:27:49.520
they would not give her leave. UH. Contemporary reports of

1464
01:27:49.520 --> 01:27:52.680
Glover's final moments likewise indicate that she did not betray

1465
01:27:52.720 --> 01:27:55.039
any names, and on the gallows of November the sixteenth,

1466
01:27:55.119 --> 01:27:59.000
Glover repeatedly reportedly warned the children should not be relieved

1467
01:27:59.279 --> 01:28:01.600
by her death, for others had a hand in it

1468
01:28:01.680 --> 01:28:05.319
as well. UH. Theymous The ominous statement implied that there

1469
01:28:05.359 --> 01:28:07.920
were other witches still at large afflicting the Goodwin family.

1470
01:28:08.119 --> 01:28:11.680
According to one account, officials Asklover to name those other witches,

1471
01:28:11.760 --> 01:28:14.560
but she refused to do so. So there is no

1472
01:28:15.039 --> 01:28:22.279
information about this, all right, Yeah, so and I got

1473
01:28:22.600 --> 01:28:24.720
it goes on for pages, It goes on for pages,

1474
01:28:24.760 --> 01:28:26.880
but there does not to be what they just claimed.

1475
01:28:26.880 --> 01:28:29.840
There does not appear to be any historical evidence of that.

1476
01:28:29.960 --> 01:28:31.560
And they use it to try to say, see Glover

1477
01:28:31.840 --> 01:28:34.319
or Cotton Mather was a great guy because he didn't

1478
01:28:34.399 --> 01:28:42.840
name these other four people. Oh man, all right, there

1479
01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:46.239
you have it, all right, So if you ever, if

1480
01:28:46.239 --> 01:28:48.760
you ever, if you're using chat GPT and you want

1481
01:28:48.760 --> 01:28:52.760
the deep research research function, there's a little microphone kind

1482
01:28:52.760 --> 01:28:54.680
of and you click on it and it will give

1483
01:28:54.720 --> 01:28:57.680
you deep research if you want the deep research. But

1484
01:28:57.960 --> 01:29:00.960
you want the deep research, it takes you about fifteen

1485
01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:03.680
minutes to get all the information, if you ever want that.

1486
01:29:03.880 --> 01:29:06.279
I went with deep research because I wanted to. I mean,

1487
01:29:06.279 --> 01:29:09.960
that was like the central part of their argument. Cotton

1488
01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:12.279
Mather was a good guy because he was given four

1489
01:29:12.359 --> 01:29:15.800
names of witches and he wouldn't share them. What a

1490
01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:20.359
great guy. He was so cautious and nice, and he's

1491
01:29:20.399 --> 01:29:24.520
a hero here. I mean, you know, all these people

1492
01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:29.520
died and the whole thing was messed up. Oh and yeah,

1493
01:29:29.560 --> 01:29:31.880
I mean you know he was there and helped to

1494
01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:34.960
ensure that a minister was killed. But hey, he was

1495
01:29:35.119 --> 01:29:38.000
such a great guy. There you have it. There was

1496
01:29:38.039 --> 01:29:41.279
the first attempt of someone attempt trying to defend Cotton

1497
01:29:41.319 --> 01:29:44.399
Mather again, hero of the faith or villain in the story.

1498
01:29:44.439 --> 01:29:46.319
I think he's the villain in the story. I think

1499
01:29:46.319 --> 01:29:48.760
he's the architect of fear. I think he wrote the blueprint.

1500
01:29:48.800 --> 01:29:51.119
I think he wrote the script and Salem followed it

1501
01:29:51.199 --> 01:29:54.199
to the very punctuation marks. Thanks to listening, everyone, have

1502
01:29:54.239 --> 01:29:56.640
a great day. God bless