Sept. 6, 2024

Confusing The Fruit in Mark 4:20

Confusing The Fruit in Mark 4:20

We consider how some interpret the fruit in Mark 4:20

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We consider how some interpret the fruit in Mark 4:20

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast, making Theology Central. Good morning everyone.

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It is Friday, September sixth, twenty twenty four. It is

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currently ten fifty seven am Central Time, and I am

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coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located

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right here in Abilene, Texas. Well. I know I have

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presented to you so many questions, so many differing opinions

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on Mark Chapter four, verses three through twenty, and I

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know that I've presented those things to you, but I

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haven't really presented a lot of answers. And hopefully today

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we'll start working on some answers. I'm going to give

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you something to consider and think about in your interpretation

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of that particular section of Scripture. I never intended for

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us to really kind of get into this, but that's

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one of the things I love about this podcast is

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sometimes we never know where things are going, and we

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just kind of let things lead us to wherever it

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leads us, and wherever we find ourselves is where we

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find ourselves and then we make the most out of it.

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It all started, if you remember, I got a study

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Bible right here that I brought home from the church.

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I haven't used this study Bible very much. And whenever

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I have a book that I haven't used a lot

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or done much with it or taken notes taught from it,

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I get very bothered because I want to get the

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most out of every single book Bible that I own.

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So I picked up the Bible started going through it,

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and there's an article right before you get to Genesis

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about how to read and study the Bible, and I'm like, okay,

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I mean, I've been teaching Bible study methods, you know,

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the twelve major methods. I've been teaching them for literally

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forever from Nebraska to Texas and anywhere else that people

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will give me the opportunity to teach them, because I

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think Christians need to know exactly how to study the

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Bible by not being given, you know, vague platitudes are

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just little cliches, but be given actual methods of Bible study.

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So I've been teaching them and teaching them. So when

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i see an article about how to read and how

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to study the Bible, I'm like, Okay, great, let's see

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what perspective they put forth, because it may help give

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me new ideas, new tools that may challenge the way

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I do. Maybe it's going to give me a new method,

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et cetera, et cetera. So I'm like, let's do this.

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So we started, and almost instantaneously we found ourselves with

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a little bit of a problem because the study Bible

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put forth this argument. To be an effective Bible student,

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for the Bible to actually have any impact in your life,

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this is where you start, not with your mind, not

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with Bible study methods, not with hermeneutical principles. You start

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with the heart. You start with the heart. The Bible

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will have no impact in your life. It will be

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of no value unless the condition of your heart is right.

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And that sounds so good, it sounds so spiritual. If

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you were to say that in church, depending on the

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type of church or in you may get a lot

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of amen's. That's right, brother, you preach it, you may

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get a lot of people yay, that's so true. We

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start with the heart, not with the mind. It's the

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condition of the heart that matters. And it sounds so good,

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it really does, and it preaches good. But sometimes things

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that preach good and things that sound good, in many

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cases are just logically flawed. Because here's what Christians do.

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So if you start with this premise, hey, the Bible

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will do you, it will be of no value, It'll

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be no good. It's not going to accomplish anything unless

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you get your heart right. Well then typically Christians will say,

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what do you need to get your heart right? Well,

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you need the Bible to get your heart right. But

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if the Bible can won't do anything unless I already

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have my heart right, well then I don't need the

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Bible to get my heart right. I have to get

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my heart right before the Bible will do anything. And

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if my heart is already right, then why do I

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need the Bible to get my heart right? Since my

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heart's already right. So it's like this circular reasoning, this

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contradictory thing, and Christians and I get constantly frustrated with

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Christians who say and do things they're just circular reasoning, contradictory,

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fifty different logical fallacies. Okay, I know there's not fifty. Okay, yeah,

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I can go through the major logical fallacies and it's

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like it can be said and down and Christians will

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be like, old, it was the greatest sermon. Oh, praise God,

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And I'm like, what are you talking about you know,

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the big one. You know, a pastor will stand before

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the congregation when you became a Christian, you are a

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new creature. Old things are passed away, all things have

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become new. And then I'll take a breath, and we

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continue to fight against sin that's inside of us. We

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continue to fight the flat wha wait, wait, wait, wait wait.

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If I'm a new creature and old things have passed

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away and all things are new, then what am I

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fighting against? Because everything is new? That would mean the

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eradication of the sinful nature. Because everything is new. So

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then where does sin come from? And so they and

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they'll say that, and nobody will catch on and again

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to me, Now that one's a simple solution. If anyone

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is in Christ, he's a new creature. Old things are

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passed away, all things have become new. That is speaking

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of our position in Christ, not our practical reality. In

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my position, I am perfect, I am holy, I am righteous,

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and my practice I'm not. Why am my position different

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because my position is based off an imputed righteousness, not

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an infused righteousness. And that's why my position is different

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than my practice. Because my practice, I'm still a sinner

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with a sinful nature, and we continue to sin and

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thought word. Indeed, by what we do and by what

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we leave undone. That one is simple to explain. Yet

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Christians will continue to repeat that and confuse people of

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this just really bad reasoning. When it comes to Mark four,

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people will come to the at least according to the

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article and a book by the same author, Hey you

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got to get your heart right. You got to get

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your heart and Mark four tells us that here's what happened.

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If your heart is not right, the word of God

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is just going to lay there and Satan's going to

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take it away. And if your heart's not right, well

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something may look like it's happening, but it's not going

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to last. Nothing is going to last. You have to

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have the right heart, the right soil for the Word

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of God to do anything. Without that, the preaching of

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God's word will not be effectual or effective. The study

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of God's word will not be effectual, the reading of

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God's word will not be effective. It's just not going

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to do anything. Get your heart right, and then the

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best they could offer is how do I get my

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heart right? The best we've heard so far, we even

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review a sermon is well just ask God and then

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He'll just give you a new heart. Well, then if

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he just gives me a new heart, and so then

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it was almost implied that every Christian in Salvation just

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gets a new heart, and so then the new heart

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doesn't have to get right because it's always right because

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it's a new heart. But even in the sermon we reviewed,

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even though they said that basically we get a new

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heart in salvation, then at the same time turned around

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and said, but sometimes the condition of our heart's not

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very good, so that means we get a new heart.

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But then we ruin the new heart, and it just

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all this circular stuff. So we have definitely thrown out

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this idea. I think we've rejected it that Mark four,

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this parable has nothing to do by telling you who's

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an effectual Bible student or not an effectual Bible This

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has nothing to do with that, all right. I think

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it's a misapplication and misinterpretation of the parable. So we're

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still working on the parable. Another common way to approach

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the parable is that Mark four is about who is

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saved and who isn't saved. They approach it from how

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much more of a soteriological perspective? We kind of looked

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at the possibilities of that, but there is some problems

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in the way that is handled. So here's what I

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want to do. Here's my challenge for you. Right first,

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we will get into this at some point because we

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need to get back to the article. But the article

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let us here. And when we get led to it,

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remember I this is a major philosophy I have for

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this podcast. We review a lot of things. We review sermons,

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we read articles, and sometimes I offer my criticism. I

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offer my analysis, but I constantly say that if I

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find something negative, if I find something I'm being critical

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of and I don't like it, it's easy to criticize.

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The goal is then to take that criticism and turn

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it into something positive and then to actually try to

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produce something of value, and it leads to a very

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in depth study and not just say WHOA, I disagree,

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move on, it's no, I disagree. Now let's work, work, work, work,

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work to try to put a better hypothesis, a better interpretation.

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Fourth and so that's what we're going to do with

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Mark chapter four. So here's first the challenge. I want

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you to read Mark four one through twenty carefully. I

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want you to read it about five times. I want

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you to really note that it lays out these different

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types of soil, right, I want you to lay. I

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want you to really consider that, and then I want

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you to consider this possibility. Is the key to understanding

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Mark four. Mark chapter three is Mark chapter three. The

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key to understanding Mark chapter four is Jesus and Mark

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four really creating a word picture of Mark chapter three.

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I'm not saying that's right. I'm not saying that's wrong.

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That's a working hypothesis that I have right now. Right.

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I always talk about that, even at church or even here,

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that we're not a podcast that simply teaches theology. We

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do theology, and doing theologies, you create hypotheses and you

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question and you challenge you, and you come up with

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concepts and ideas. We're not just like, hey, here's what

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so and so said, and then don't tell you so

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and so said it and just teach it authoritatively. No,

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we may say so and so said this, but we're

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gonna question it and challenge it, not because we think

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we're smarter or right, but because doing theology. That's what

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it's all about. So I want you to consider Mark four,

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and I want you to just ask yourself, is the

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key to unlock Mark chapter four is the key to

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understanding it? Mark chapter three, and look understanding Mark chapter four,

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and the parable in Mark chapter four seems to be

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of the utmost importance. Why look at Mark chapter four,

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verse thirteen. This is Jesus, he said, unto them, the

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people he's he's saying these words to. You can go

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back and look at exactly who he's referring to here, right,

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all right, because he's with the twelve and those with him. Right.

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But Mark, and you can look at that in Mark

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four ten. But Mark four thirteen, and he said to them,

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do you not understand this parable? How then will you

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understand all the parables? It seems that if we don't

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understand Mark four one through twenty, if we don't understand

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the parable of the soils, or the parable of the

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seed and the sower, however you want to describe it.

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But everyone kind of get focuses on the different soil

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and the condition of it. It seems to me that

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if we cannot understand the parable and Mark four, we

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literally cannot understand any of the other parables. If anyone

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starts arguing with you about the parables, what you should

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do is like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

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explain to me the parable and Mark four. And if

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they can't explain it accurately or correctly, then there's no

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point in arguing with him about any of the other

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parables because they can't understand the other parables unless they

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get Mark four right. So, for you and I, if

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we're gonna even think that we can understand the other parables,

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we've got to get this one right. Mark four seems

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to be this is the key. We've got to get

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this one right. So then what do we do. Well,

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we've thrown out the idea that this is again how

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to be an effective Bible student. I think that just

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falls apart. I think it leads to circular reasoning and

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it just becomes contradictory. Hey, you got to get your

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heart right before you read the Bible, because if you

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don't get your heart right before you read the Bible,

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well then it won't it won't have any effect. It

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won't be it won't it won't be effectual. So you

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got to get your heart right. However, you need the

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Bible in order to get your heart right. I know

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you're telling me, I got to get my heart right

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apart from the Bible, and then I go to the Bible.

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And once I go to the Bible, I don't know

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what I'm gonna do because my heart's already been made right.

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But I guess the Bible's only for people whose hearts

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are right. Like that just seems so contradictory, So we've

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thrown that out. Another common interpretation is that Mark chapter

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four is about is soteriological that this is the Mark

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Chapter four is how to prove if someone is saved.

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If you have this soil, if this is if this

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soil condition represents your heart, you're not saved. If this

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soil represents your heart, you're not safe. That only one

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soil condition represents salvation and everyone else is lost. That

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is a common way of interpreting it. Not everyone agrees

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in christiendom even with that. So we started working with

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this concept. So I'm gonna go back and we're gonna

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look at this possible. So first thing I want you

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to do is I want you to read Mark four

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five times, and then I want you I didn't explain

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it enough detail. I apologize, so let me explain the assignment.

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Cly all right, read Mark four about five times one

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through twenty, and then consider Mark four in light of

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Mark three. Then go to Mark three and just go

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through Mark three carefully with Mark four in mind, and

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just see if you all of a sudden. I'm trying

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not to give too much away, so I'm trying to

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be somewhat vague in my assignment because I don't want

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I don't want to just kind of lead you to

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a conclusion. I want you to just start read and

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then start reading through Mark three with Mark four in mind,

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because you've already read it five times, and maybe pieces

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will come together, maybe it won't come together. I'm not

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trying to tell you what to look for, so I'm

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trying to be purposely vague there. I know I kind

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of interrupted myself, and I apologize, but I want you

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to do that. So read Mark four five times, then

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go to Mark three and just start working through Mark

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three with Mark four in mind, and you just tell

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me what happens. Right. That's that's as vague as I

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can make it. All right? Does that work? All right?

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So we're throwing out the whole This is this is this,

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This text tells you how to be an effectual Bible student.

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We forget that. We're gonna just forget that. I think

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we can vary rejected it. We've demonstrated how just it

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doesn't make any sense, and now we're gonna deal with Well,

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is mark flour really about the proof of salvation? I

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don't know if that's the correct, But let's look at it.

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Are you ready? Are you ready to look at this?

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All right? The interpretation that the different soils and the

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parable of the sower represents different kinds of people, with

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only the good soil being true Christians is a common one.

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So it is. It may be the most common. Hey,

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let's look at the parable of the soils. Hey, if

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this is you, this is you, this is you, you

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aren't saved. These are the only people who are saved.

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That is a common interpretation, all right. I think I

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think that's fair to say. I think it's probably the

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most common. However, there is debate about whether the other

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soils represent people who were never truly Christians, or whether

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they represent Christians who, for various reasons, fail to produce fruit.

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Let's explore the arguments for and against the view that

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only the good soil represents true Christians sense sense. The

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majority of view is that this represents that the good

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soils the only true Christians here. Since that's the dominant view,

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I think most I think that's fair to say. You

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can challenge me, but I think that's what I hear everywhere. Ultimately,

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even if they start their sermon not going that direction,

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they inevitably go there. The sermon we reviewed yesterday, I mean,

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throughout all the different soils, he's like, well, I sometimes

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struggle with this, and you sometimes struggle with this, and

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you sometimes struggle with this, and we can all relate

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to this because this has happened to us. And then

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and then all of a sudden, without any really warning,

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he's like, but all those three, all those other soils

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are lost people. And you're like, wait, you just said that.

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That's you. It was really like almost schizophrenic, how quickly

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it changed. But we're gonna at least consider this view,

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all right. Arguments for the interpretation that only the good

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soil represents true Christians. Let's look at the arguments for

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the interpretation that only the good soil represents true Christians.

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And the first point, I think you know what the

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first point is going to be. They argue here that

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fruit is the evidence of genuine faith. Now, this is

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common within Christiandom. How do you know you're saved, you

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will have spiritual fruit. No spiritual fruit, you are not saved. Now,

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how do you exactly look at spiritual fruit? And we've

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had this conversation, right, We've had this conversation because we've

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acknowledged that if you look at what so called spiritual

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fruit is, in many cases, you can find these things

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in the lives of all kinds of people. Love, joy, peace,

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long suffering. I mean, much of that is like I've

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seen lost people who are very long suffering and patient.

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I've seen lost people who love better than many Christians do.

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I mean, sometimes I will argue the lack of love

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I've seen within Christiandom is far worse than the lack

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of love I ever experienced from non Christians. And many

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people would say the same thing. And some of the

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fruit is just pretty general concepts that people may or

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may not have in their life. And then we talked

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about and it's also very difficult because we typically view

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fruit from an external perspective, and we know that that

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doesn't always meet ring true, right, Because even in the

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Gospel of Matthew, Hey, Lord Lord, did we not do this,

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did we not do this? Did we not do this?

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And all of the external depart from me, for I

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never knew you. So the external is not necessarily a

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guarantee either. You can have it what it appears to

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be an external manifestation of fruit, but it's just external

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and there's no internal reality. Well, then how do you

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measure that? How do you quantify that? The fruit argument

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sounds good, but sometimes it's like, how does that actually work?

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So they're gonna get they're giving this argument that, Hey,

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the reason we interpret Mark four as being only one

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soil here represents salvation is because only one really produces fruit,

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and fruit is the way you prove salvation. Listen to

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their argument. One of the main arguments for this interpretation

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is that the good soil is the only one that

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produces fruit, and fruitfulness is often considered evidence of genuine

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faith in the New test Right, So the argument is

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fruit is the is the true evidence of salvation? All right?

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So what verse are they going to quote to prove this?

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I quote, for example, Jesus says, and Matthew seven sixteen

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through twenty. By their fruit, you will recognize them. This

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perspective holds that a true Christian will inevitably produce some

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degree of spiritual fruit. Therefore, the argument is that the

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lack of fruit and the other soils indicate that these

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people were never truly saved or never had genuine saving faith.

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Now that sounds good. I could say that to about

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You could walk around church on Sunday basically give everyone

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that very specific argument and reference Matthew said sixteen through twenty.

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Buy their fruit. You will recognize them, and almost everyone

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in your church will be like Amen. Even your pastor

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may say Amen, brother or sister, that is right. That's good.

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You did a great job. Of course, you can leave

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it up to the Theology Central podcast for me to say, uh,

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I'm gonna raise my hand here. And I've got a problem.

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I've got a problem. I think connecting the fruit and

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Mark four twenty to the fruit talked about in Matthew

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seven sixteen through twenty, I think that's a I think

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it's an incorrect cross I think that's an example of

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cross referencing going wrong. Because Christians are great, they'll talk

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a big game about cross referencing, but then they'll just

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put verses and passages together and you'll look at it

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like where's the lot? Why why are you putting them together? Well,

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they have the same word. Having the same word does

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not mean they necessarily go together. To cross reference, you

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have to be a little bit more loquit a minute.

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Are we sure these fit together? Why are we fitting

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this together? Do we have an actual good reason for

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connecting these verses together? So what I want to do

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is we've kind of thrown out the idea that Mark

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four is telling us how to be an effectual Bible student.

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I want to at least throw out the idea that

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we should not be connecting the fruit and Mark four

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twenty to the fruit in Matthew seven sixteen through twenty.

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What do you think? So I decided I had already

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come up with kind of my own argument, my own thoughts,

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but I thought, you know, let me have a discussion

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with Ai about the subject, all right. So I first

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asked Ai about this entire situation with about about Mark

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four twenty. Some people saying that this shows only one

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group of people are saved, and at first even AI

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throughout Matthew chapter seven versus sixteen through twenty, that's kind

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of proof of that perspective. And so I'm like, well,

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me and Ai, we're going to have an argument today.

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So I challenged AI, and I was like, well, wait

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a minute, are you sure that it's correct to connect

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Matthew seven sixteen through twenty with Mark four to twenty.

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Are you sure that's correct? At first, AI was a

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little hesitant, but they went on. AI begin to say

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some things like this, and I'll be quoting a little

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bit from the text back and forth between me and AI.

403
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All Right, so it says, this is what AI says,

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the passage you mentioned in Matthew seven sixteen through twenty

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is primarily about identifying false teachers rather than providing proof

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of salvation for individual Christians. And I was like, that's

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what I thought. So even Ai, when push comes to shove,

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even AI had to step back and go, well, okay,

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you're right. Primarily, primarily Matthew seven sixteen through twenty is

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about identifying false teachers. It's not about identifying who's saved

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or not saved. It's about identifying false teachers. You can't

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then take that, go to Mark four twenty and say, well,

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this fruit is connected to the fruit mentioned in Matthew's. No,

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it's not. It's completely different in this context, and the

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context of Matthew chapter seven sixteen through twenty, Jesus is

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warning his followers to be discerning about those who claim

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to be spiritual leaders or prophets. Let's go to it.

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Go to Matthew chapter seven. Since this is the passage

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everyone quotes. Matthew chapter seven versus sixteenth. I'll start in

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verse fifteen for context. You ready, Matthew seven fifteen. Beware

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of Come on, everyone, say it with me. Matthew seven fifteen,

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beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing,

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but inwardly they're ravenous wolves. You will know them by

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their fruits. Now, the fruit here is about identifying a

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false teacher. This is not about identifying salvation or non sufficient.

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It's about finding the fruit that will help you determine

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if someone is a true or false prophet. And then

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what does he go on to say, speaking of the

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false prophets, you will know them by their fruits. Do

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men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?

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Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a

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bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear

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bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

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Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut

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down and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits

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you will know them. He is referring to false teachers,

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to false teachers. That's what the text is about. So

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Ai says, to understand this, we need to look at

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the broader content of the broader passage. So it quotes

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Matthew seven fifteen through twenty right, and it says key

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points about this passage warning against false prophets. Jesus begins

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by specifically warning his followers to beware of false prophets.

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These are individuals who appear outwardly pious or righteous in

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sheep's clothing, but are actually deceptive and harmful inwardly ravenous wolves.

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The focus of the passage is on being able to

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identify these false teachers are prophets by their fruits, which

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includes their action, teaching, and overall character. So the fruit

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being spoken of is you look to a false teacher,

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you look to their action, you look to their actual teaching,

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and you look to their overall character. That's what you're

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looking for. This is about how to identify a false teacher.

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Jesus used the metaphor of tree and fruit to illustrate

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how one can discern the true nature of these prophets,

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just as healthy trees produce good fruit and disease trees

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produce bad fruit. Particularly those claiming to be leaders or

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teachers reveal their true character in spiritual condition. The fruit

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here includes their behavior, lifestyle, moral conduct, and especially the

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content and effect of their teaching. The repetition of you

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will recognize them by their fruits, and verse sixteen and

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twenty reinforces that Jesus is giving criteria for identifying false prophets.

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The emphasis is on evaluating leaders and teachers by the

462
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:45.839
result of their ministry and the alignment of their teaching

463
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:49.839
with the truth of God's word. Is this passage about

464
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:52.880
proof of salvation? While this passage is often cited in

465
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.640
discussions about fruit as evidence of salvation, its primary context

466
00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:00.640
is discerning false teachers. It is not addressing whether an

467
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:05.319
individual Christian is truly saved. Instead is addressing the audience

468
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:11.720
on how to recognize who falsely claims to speak for God.

469
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:17.160
So even Ai, even the way I initially gave me

470
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:20.720
Matthew seven sixteen through twenty to kind of connect it

471
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:23.680
to Mark four, when I pushed back even then it

472
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:26.279
was like, well, okay, primarily that's not what it's about.

473
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:29.680
I'm like, I agree. And so then it says, does

474
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:35.000
basically does the distinction matter, I'm making a distinction doesn't matter. Well,

475
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:38.799
it says, focus on leadership, not individual believers. The text

476
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:41.799
is concerned with false leadership and the danger it poses

477
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.319
to the community of faith. The imagery of fruit is

478
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:46.920
used to highlight that genuine profits or teachers will align

479
00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.519
their character and teaching of Christ, while false ones will

480
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.759
ultimately reveal their true nature through their actions and teachings.

481
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:58.240
Avoid misapplying the passage. Applying this passage strictly is a

482
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:01.079
test of personal salvation for all believe can miss its

483
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:04.960
primary intent. It's about evaluating the spiritual authenticity of those

484
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:08.640
in teaching or leadership roles, not necessarily a rule for

485
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.559
judging the salvation of every Christian based off the so

486
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:14.799
called visible fruit they bear. So AI, then at this

487
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:18.200
point I'm like, okay, you're we're in agreement here, all right.

488
00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:25.960
So then I was like, okay, so AI, I've got

489
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.559
an issue. Why did you initially quote and connect Matthew

490
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:36.759
seven with Mark four? Is that not an incorrect cross reference?

491
00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:44.759
So Finally, AI said this, Yes, it would be incorrect

492
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:50.039
to directly connect the fruit and Mark four twenty with

493
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:53.200
the fruit and Matthew seven sixteen through twenty as proof

494
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.559
of salvation because the context and purpose of the passages

495
00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:01.319
are completely different. Using Matthew u seven sixteen through twenty

496
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:03.160
to argue that the fruit in Mark four to twenty

497
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:08.839
is proof of salvation would indeed be a flawed cross reference.

498
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:13.839
And I was like, thank you, I know it would

499
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:18.200
because anyone who can read knows that it's bad cross reference.

500
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:21.880
It's a horrible cross reference, even though everyone makes it.

501
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:25.759
And of course AI, what AI does when you when

502
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.279
it's looking for things, it's pulling from you know, basically

503
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.160
the majority view, and I disagree with the majority of view.

504
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:34.920
These have nothing to do with each other. So you

505
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:37.960
can't say, hey, so Mark four, these are the only

506
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.759
people save because they produce fruit. Go look at Matthew seven. No, no,

507
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:44.960
don't go look at Matthew seven because it has nothing

508
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:51.880
to do with this. So then AI, I said, so basically,

509
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:54.319
now I'm challenging it. So why would this be a cross?

510
00:30:54.319 --> 00:31:00.440
Flawed cross reference? Number one different context Matthew seven sixteen

511
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:03.440
through twenty is specifically about discerning false teachers and prophets.

512
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:05.839
The fruit in this passage refers to the teaching behavior

513
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:08.759
and outcome of those leaders lives which reveal their true character,

514
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:11.079
and whether they are genuinely speaking on behalf of God

515
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:14.119
or are wolves in sheep's clothing. The focus is on

516
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:18.319
recognizing false leaders and their deceitful influence. Mark four twenty

517
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.440
refers to a parable the Soler, where the fruit represents

518
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:23.839
the positive outcome of receiving the word of God with

519
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.640
a receptive heart. In this context, the fruit is the

520
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.440
result of how one responds to God's words, growth and understanding, obedience,

521
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.400
and spiritual maturity. Now I may even disagree a little

522
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.240
bit with how Ai is approaching Mark four twenty, but

523
00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:42.359
at least they acknowledge completely different context, different everything. They

524
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:45.200
go on to say, the two passages have a different purpose.

525
00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:48.680
Matthew seven. The purpose of mentioning fruit is to provide

526
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:53.200
a criterion, a criterion for recognizing and avoiding false teachers.

527
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:56.759
It's not primarily about determining whether an individual is saved

528
00:31:57.079 --> 00:31:59.400
Mark four twenty. The purpose of mentioning fruit is to

529
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:03.759
illustrate the varied response to God's word the parable shows

530
00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:06.680
that different soils. And let's may make it very clear.

531
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:08.599
I don't we don't know for sure if Mark four

532
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:11.319
twenty is really about how you respond to God's word.

533
00:32:11.559 --> 00:32:14.039
We think Mark four twenty because the word word and

534
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.319
Mark four doesn't always refer to the Bible. It can

535
00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:20.000
refer to Jesus. That the idea of the Word that

536
00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:23.759
Jesus is referring to is his presenting the kingdom. So

537
00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:26.559
the message that the Kingdom is here and repent, or

538
00:32:26.599 --> 00:32:30.000
we could say it's the gospel message. So Mark four

539
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:34.079
just may show, hey, there are different ways people are

540
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:38.359
going to respond to the Gospel, to the call to

541
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:40.920
the to the offer of the kingdom, to the gospel.

542
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:43.279
They're just gonna all that's trying to demonstrate, is there

543
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:45.799
gonna be different ways that people respond or remember my

544
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:49.440
assignment that the key to Mark four is Mark three.

545
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:51.960
Keep what I just said in mind when you when

546
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.279
you read Mark four five times, you're gonna get these

547
00:32:54.279 --> 00:33:02.279
different responses. Then consider Mark chapter three. Right. I think

548
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:06.480
that's the case. All right, So they said the reason

549
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:09.200
this cross reference would be bad is it has different contexts,

550
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:12.920
has different purposes, and a misapplication of fruit as a

551
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:16.640
proof of salvation, while fruit is often understood to be

552
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:19.200
a sign of spiritual health or growth. Interpreting it as

553
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.359
a proof of salvation and Mark based on Matthew seven

554
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:26.279
misapplies the teaching the two passages. The two passages do

555
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:30.240
not equate fruit in the same way, and Mark four

556
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:32.599
to twenty the fruitfulness of the good soil is more

557
00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:35.400
about the effectiveness of the word in someone's life rather

558
00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:40.000
than a test of whether they are truly saved. Mark

559
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:42.759
four is not a test on whether someone is saved,

560
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:46.759
and you cannot connect it to Matthew chapter seven because

561
00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:53.160
it's different purpose, different contexts, different everything. Yet prosters do

562
00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:58.519
it constantly. Therefore, Ai then went on to say, and

563
00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:03.880
now Ai becomes very dogmatic. It would be incorrect to

564
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.960
directly link the fruit of Mark four with the fruit

565
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:10.760
in Matthew seven as evidence or proof of salvation. Each

566
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:17.199
passage uses the metaphor of fruit differently for distinct purposes

567
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:21.800
within very unique context Mark four to twenty emphasizes the

568
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:25.559
productive outcome of a receptive heart, while Matthew seven is

569
00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:33.840
about identifying the true nature of spiritual leaders. See just

570
00:34:33.880 --> 00:34:38.320
because both mention fruit doesn't mean you're given just a

571
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:41.960
license to connect them and then draw any conclusion you want.

572
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:44.480
That's not how you do hermeneutics. That's not how you

573
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:47.400
do Bible study. That's not how you do Bible interpretation.

574
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:50.960
And the fact that that happens behind pulpits behind microphones,

575
00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:54.119
and happens in small groups, and happens in Sunday school

576
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:59.599
is as an indictment against the ability of many Christians

577
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:06.559
to act handle the Word of God. They're different. If

578
00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:10.280
you want to understand Mark four, don't go to Matthew seven,

579
00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:14.880
go to Mark Chapter three. Mark four is about I

580
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.920
think I think we're getting I'm getting closer to becoming

581
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:21.000
a little bit more dogmatic. It's it's Jesus the same

582
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:24.239
when you go, whether it's you're telling them the message

583
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:26.719
that the Kingdom of God is at hand repent, if

584
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:29.000
you're going with the word representing that or the word

585
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:32.519
representing the Gospel message. It's the idea that there are

586
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:37.280
going to be different responses. There's going to be different

587
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:47.199
responses to the Gospel. And then I think Mark three

588
00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:54.400
may demonstrate that. Now you may want to say, well,

589
00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:56.440
this one is saved, this one is not saying you

590
00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:58.199
can try to get into that argument. I think it's

591
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:00.880
just the point is there's going to be different responses.

592
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:04.920
We're the ones who loved to come in and go, well,

593
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:06.840
that means you're not saved, you're not safe. Even the

594
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:10.000
sermon that we heard yesterday who threw everyone everyone out,

595
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:12.960
that even he had to admit, well, there's even those

596
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:18.519
of us. He even refers to himself that that's sometimes me. Well,

597
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:22.880
because yeah, so is it that easy to say, well,

598
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.000
who's saved and not saved? Can't we say that these

599
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.119
are responses that can happen in everyone when we hear

600
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:31.199
the now if we want to apply the word to

601
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:38.639
the entire Bible or to have a specific message. So

602
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:42.039
I want to work on the Mark three thing I do.

603
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:46.360
But the goal here was to demonstrate that the fruit

604
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:50.880
and Mark four is not the fruit and Matthew seven.

605
00:36:52.840 --> 00:37:00.960
It's not. It's different, different context, different purpose, different everything.

606
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:09.400
Don't connect it. Don't connect it. Now. One of the

607
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:11.039
things I told you to do is start listening to

608
00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:14.119
sermons on Mark four, three through twenty. You tell me,

609
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:16.199
you can let me know how many of those sermons

610
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:20.480
say buy buy your fruit, buy their fruit. You will

611
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:23.119
know them. How many state that and refer to it

612
00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:25.639
and connect it to Mark Chapter four. I think it's

613
00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:33.039
a complete mis application. It's bad cross referencing, bad cross referencing.

614
00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:36.800
Just because you can cross reference doesn't mean you just

615
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:39.000
can arbitrarily like I'm gonna take that verse and that

616
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:41.000
verse and I'm gonna put it together. And I've seen

617
00:37:41.079 --> 00:37:43.320
Christians do that, and sometimes trying to argue with them

618
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:46.079
is like talking to a wall. They're like, well, this

619
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:48.119
verse says this, Well, well what about this first? Well

620
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:49.840
what about this verse? I like, you're just running from

621
00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:52.119
verse to verse to verse to verse to verse to verse.

622
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:55.039
You're making no sense. You're just like it's like you're

623
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:59.679
taking a shotgun and just just sending out all that,

624
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:03.159
just just all these cross references and thinking, somehow you

625
00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:06.519
makes you smarter or more spiritual because you through fifteen

626
00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:16.440
cross references that have no actual connection. So what have

627
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:20.639
we done? We have thrown out that Mark four is

628
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:23.599
somehow Hey, this is how to become an effectual Bible student.

629
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:25.599
You got to get your heart right before you can

630
00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:28.960
be a good Bible student. But it's God's word that

631
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:30.639
helps you get your heart right. But it won't do

632
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:32.199
any good until you get your heart right. So this

633
00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:35.280
seems to indicate I get my heart right first, don't

634
00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:36.880
I don't know what that's what it's saying. I guess

635
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:39.639
you could make the argument, well, until God gets your

636
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:42.039
heart right, well then God would have to get your

637
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:47.280
heart right first. Then the Bible would be effectual. But then,

638
00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:49.920
I know, don't you know, Christians, is the Bible really

639
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:52.000
being I mean, even the sermon we reviewed yesterday he

640
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:54.840
acknowledged it. Sometimes you know, you read the Bible, you

641
00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:58.039
study the Bible, you don't even remember. You don't remember this,

642
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:00.519
you don't remember now. He even challenged of the church

643
00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:05.000
members on some of this. He acknowledged some of those problems.

644
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:07.320
I mean, the one thing I do know is I've

645
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:11.800
been around Christians forever, since I became saved. I've seen

646
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:15.360
some of the and I'm not calling anyone salvation into question.

647
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:18.360
They may be Christian, but they're handling of the scripture,

648
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:22.000
their understanding of the scripture, their ability to read it

649
00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:24.480
is just You're like, what in the world are you?

650
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:28.400
It makes no sense. And obviously if Christians just somehow

651
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:31.480
get some magical ability to study the Bible, then you think,

652
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:34.360
I don't know, we could agree on something Christians don't

653
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:36.960
even agree on Mark chapter four, verses one through twenty.

654
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:39.400
We don't agree on that. We don't agree on anything.

655
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:50.920
So the whole the Bible study thing, we've kind of

656
00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:52.760
thrown that out. But what I want to throw out

657
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:55.719
today is just it is not correct to connect the

658
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:58.400
fruit and Mark four twenty with the fruit being mentioned

659
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:04.280
in Matthew seven. Different context, different purposes that we can be.

660
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:07.159
So sometimes when you start trying to correct or trying

661
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:10.599
to build a correct understanding, you've got to try to

662
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:13.199
figure out what you can be dogmatic about. We can

663
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:18.079
be dogmatic about the way. Hey, the prerequisite to be

664
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:20.000
a good Bible student is to get your heart right.

665
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:22.159
And I guess you have to get your heart right.

666
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:23.719
But they didn't tell us how to get your heart right.

667
00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:25.239
Then I say, just ask God and he'll give you

668
00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:27.480
a new heart. Well, then if you have a new heart,

669
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:30.679
then well you should It would seem to be the

670
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:32.679
implication you no longer have a sinful nature. All right.

671
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:35.960
We talked about all of those problems. But to connect

672
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:41.920
the fruit here, I believe is a problem. Right now,

673
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:44.960
what's your assignment? Continue to listen to sermons on Mark

674
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.800
four I want you to hear all the other perspectives.

675
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:49.840
I want you to hear them. Man, I'm not afraid

676
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:51.960
of you hearing other perspectives. I want you to hear

677
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:56.239
as many perspectives as possible, all right, And then I

678
00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:59.519
want you to read Mark four five times. And then

679
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:01.039
I want you to go to Mark three and I

680
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:04.159
want you to just I've tried to be careful. I've

681
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:06.679
tried to be vague. I even did a bad job

682
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:08.840
giving out the assignment the first time because I'm trying

683
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:10.960
to be so careful with what I say. But I

684
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:15.800
want you to I want you to see if all

685
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:18.719
of a sudden, maybe a light will come on. Maybe

686
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:21.719
a light will come on, You'll be like oh oh, oh,

687
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:27.159
oh oh, or maybe you won't see anything. But I'm

688
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:30.719
giving you the opportunity to figure it out. Now. I

689
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:33.920
want you to consider again Mark four twenty Matthew seven.

690
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:36.119
Just see that the fruit is different. I want you

691
00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:37.679
to see that for yourself. You can go look at

692
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:42.519
it for yourself. The context there is night and day

693
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:51.639
and my estimation. All right, I want to say something else,

694
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:54.840
but I'll stop there. Thanks for listening. We'll continue to

695
00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:57.400
work on Mark four well we'll get back to the article,

696
00:41:57.599 --> 00:41:59.639
but this is all a part of it. The article

697
00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:02.519
let us to Mark four and said, Hey, this is

698
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:05.360
how you start to be a good effectual Bible student

699
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:09.920
is this section. And what we're saying is I don't

700
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:12.000
even know if the author is being a good Bible student,

701
00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:14.840
because I think they're misusing Mark chapter four. And the

702
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:18.719
irony of that, you've almost have to laugh laugh. Hey,

703
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:23.760
isn't it ironic that I was looking at an article

704
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:27.079
about how to be an effectual Bible student and in

705
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:31.239
basically the introduction of said article, the author demonstrates there

706
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:35.559
not a good Bible student. Isn't it ironic? Yeah, I'm

707
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:37.800
kind of making a reference to a popular song. Okay,

708
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:41.679
I know, all right, I can't. I can't have a

709
00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:44.480
hard time not making musical references. I do very good

710
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:48.400
at trying to control myself, all right, I try. Sometimes

711
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:55.079
I do good, Sometimes I do All right, what are

712
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:57.480
you doing? Go figure it out? I'm waiting for answers.

713
00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:59.400
All right, everyone, have a great day. God bless