March 29, 2025

Christianity When 1,600 People Die

Christianity When 1,600 People Die

A discussion about the devastating earthquake in Myanmar

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A discussion about the devastating earthquake in Myanmar

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast, Making Theology Central. Good morning everyone.

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It is Saturday, March the twenty ninth, twenty twenty five.

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It is currently ten twenty seven am Central Time, and

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I'm coming to you live from the Theology Central studio

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located right here in Abilene, Texas. When I play that

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intro that you're listening to the Theology Central podcast, where we,

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you know, attempt to make theology central. That's a very

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important distinction of what I try to do here. I

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try to take a philological understanding and make it central

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to everything we talk about. We try to talk about

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everything from a philological perspective. And that sounds it sounds good,

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it sounds spiritual, it sounds like, Okay, this is a

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good theology Christian podcast. That's wonderful. But sometimes theology is

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best discussed in the confines of a seminary or a

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sanctuary or a church classroom than it is in the

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context of real life, especially when we talk about tragedy

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in real life suffering pain, Sometimes theological discussion it feels

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almost like it doesn't fit in right, because theology likes

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to sometimes make everything so like, here's the answer for this,

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here's the answer for this. Everything seems to be so

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simple and clear. A pastor stand behind the pulpit and

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they preach a sermon, and they may give you theological answers.

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They do so authoritatively, as if every thing is simple.

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Here's an explanation for this. Everything fits into nice little categories.

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And that works while everyone's sitting in a pew on

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a Sunday morning. That works where you're sitting in a

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seminary classroom on a Tuesday night, or in a church

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classroom on a Wednesday night. It seems to work. But

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at some point, theology has to leave the church, leave

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the seminary classroom, and it has to somehow exist within

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a world that is filled with pain, suffering, and death.

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And sometimes theology feels very inadequate in moments like that.

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And I'm sitting here with an open Bible, and it

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feels inadequate to address a tragedy that took place, a

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horrible tragedy. In fact, the horrors of the tragedy are

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still unfolding. Now. I could sit here and give you facts.

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I could sit here and give you details. In fact,

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I have an audio clip queued up that I could

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play the latest news report that dropped just a little

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while ago, and so you would get up to the

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minute information. But I have a feeling that if I

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just give you names, places, numbers, give you the basic outline,

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you probably probably wouldn't even blink an eye. You probably

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just shrug your shoulder and just move on, right, because

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it's it's you don't really want to hear about it,

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And then when I do talk about it, you're gonna

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want me to give you very clear, a piological answer,

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just to make you feel better, to bring some sense

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of comfort, and to make it easy. But this is

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not going to be a broadcast where I'm going to

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make anything easy, and I doubt you're going to fill

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with any comfort. But I also feel like I can't

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just give you the facts of the story. Just read

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a news article, right, just like breaking news, the following

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happened because we were numb to that. So what I've

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tried to do is I'm going to take this tragedy.

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I'm going to try to tell you about the tragedy

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and almost a story form right so that maybe we'll

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have a greater impact. And then we're going to try

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to discuss maybe we discuss the weakness of theology to

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address tragedy. Am I am I allowed to say that

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because we're supposed to see tragedy, throw a couple of

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thiological concepts at it, and then tell ourselves that everything

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is good and everything is wonderful. But I don't ever

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believe it really is. I believe that we live within

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the the illusion of certainty and that we have good answers.

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I don't believe we really do. So I'm going to

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tell you the story again and a more like a

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storytelling form, and then we'll get into a very important

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theological discussion. And all of this fits in perfectly with

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some of the things we've been talking about about the

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storms of life metaphor about why storms, about suffering. In fact,

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yesterday I was going to do another I was going

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to do an episode in regards to a Max Locato

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book about suffering and why we suffer and while we

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have trials. I didn't even get to that. But this

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tragedy occurred in the midst of kind of all of

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these other discussions and considerations. So are you ready? The

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date is March the twenty eighth, twenty twenty five, mid

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day Mandalay Me and Mar March the twenty eighth, twenty

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twenty five midday Mandalay, Me and Mar. The bustling streets

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of Mandalay are alive with activity. Vendors call out their wares,

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children play, and the city's rhythm pulses under the midday sun.

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The air is thick with the set of street food

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and the distant hum of motor bikes. Inside an office building,

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employees are at their desk, typing away, engaged in conversations,

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the mundane hum of a typical work day. Inside a

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school classroom, a teacher writes on the blackboard as students

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diligently take notes. The chalk soft scratching the only sound

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accompanying the rustling of papers. Then suddenly the ground begins

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to tremble. Lightly, pencils roll off the desk. A low,

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ominous rumble grows louder, pauses chalk in hand, eyes widening.

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Everyone under your desk now, students scramble, fear flashing across

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their faces. Inside the office building, sealing lights sway, papers

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flutter to the floor. The trimmors intensify. Employees are gripping

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the edge of their desk. Someone screams out. Is this

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an earthquake? Someone else says, we need to get out

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of here. In the streets of Mandalay, buildings begin to sway.

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Cracks snake through the pavement. The trimbers escalate into violent shakes.

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People scream, running in all directions. A nearby street vendor's

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cart topples, sending goods sprawling. A historical pagata as its

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spire begins to crumble. Bricks cascading down. Inside the school,

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the selling cracks, debris falls. Children scream the teacher. The

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voice is firm, but even though they are scared to death,

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they say, stay down, cover your heads. The earthquake subsides,

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leaving a haunting silence. Dust clouds rise from the debris.

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The city's scape is altered. Buildings have been reduced to rubble.

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Streets are littered with wreckage. Fivers emerge dazed and injured.

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A mother clutches her child, tears streaking her dust covered face.

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A man pulls another from beneath the debris. Rescue workers

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both local and international, coordinate efforts. Tents are set up,

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supplies are unloaded. Following the devastating seven point seven magnitude

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earthquake that struck near Mandalay Mihrnamar, second largest city. The

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death toll has now risen to over one thousand, six

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hundred people. Over one thousand, six hundred people with thousands injured,

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and many more are still currently missing. Rescue operations are underway,

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but efforts are hampered by ongoing aftershocks and the extensive destruction.

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Everyone was going about their normal day. It was just

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a normal day in Mandalay, me and Mar, just a

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normal day, midday, and then all of a sudden, within minutes,

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everything changes and now over one thousand, six hundred people

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are dead, thousands are missing, people are injured. The death

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toll is expected to increase. I'm not going to say

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if it's going to increase dramatically, but that's what happened.

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It was just a normal day, the normal sounds of

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a city, the normal sounds of people at work or

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in school, and children were once there are gone. I mean,

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their life is over. Now. You take that scene, you

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take that destruction, you take that death, you take the

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suffering that's going on right now as you're doing whatever

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you're doing on this Saturday, whatever you're doing on this

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Saturday morning, I don't know. You may be relaxing. You

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may be resting, you may be playing with your children,

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you may be having a cup of coffee, preparing for lunch. Well,

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maybe you're gonna have fun and food and activities with

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friends and family. Maybe you're gonna spend time with your spouse.

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Whatever you're going to do, you're gonna go about your

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day and as you should. But in man Mar Mandalay,

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things are not going to go on, and we're just

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gonna move on. And then tomorrow we'll be well, you know,

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we'll be standing in a side of church. You know,

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Praise God. How you doing doing great? Brother about praise God.

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Everything's wonderful. You're gonna sing some hymns and then you're

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gonna hear a nice little sermon makes it makes it

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sound like that life is so easy to understand. And

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then you're gonna be and then you're gonna get in

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your car with your family, maybe go out to lunch,

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go home, have Sunday dinner, and life is just gonna

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move on, because that's how how it works. The Bible

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God theology works great in the confines of a nice

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little church with a steeple, your nice little home with

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your husband and with your kids, and with your wife

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and with your dog and everything. It's all great, but

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where how does Christianity respond? What does Christianity have to

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say in the face of horrible tragedy like an earthquake

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that kills one thousand, six hundred people and minutes. What

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does Christianity have to say to a child who's been

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molested for fifteen years? What does it have to say

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to a woman who's been ramed? What is this to

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say to a child who's been beaten, tied up in

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a closet, burn with a curling iron, be with a

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baseball bat. What does it have to say to someone

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suffering and dying? See? Then that's when theology it's hard

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to say with theology we're going to make theology central,

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then it's hard to make theology central to that. So

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when the earth shake, when people suffer, I think in

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many ways, Christianity struggles to explain that suffering, to explain

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that tragedy, and to explain that horror. So that's what

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we're going to explore. Now. I could play the news report,

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but you can find the news reports there everywhere. I

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just wanted to tell the story in a way that

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hopefully makes it a little bit makes you feel something,

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not just numbers on a screen. So let's consider first

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the weight of this whole question and this whole issue. Obviously,

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I've established the context. March the twenty eighth, twenty twenty five,

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a seven point seven magnitude earthquake strikes me and mar

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Over one thousand, six hundred people perish in moments. Thousands

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more are injured, are injured or displaced. Now the question

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would be where was God? Why didn't he stop it? Now,

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Christianity has long sought to answer the question of suffering,

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But how successful has it really been? How successful has

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Christianity really been at addressing pain, suffering, horrific things? And

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I can go through all kinds of scenarios, and not

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just made up scenarios, real life scenarios, either things that's

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happened to me or things have happened to people I know,

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or just watch the news for crying out loud. I know,

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you know, Christians may throw out well just seeing it

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as well with my soul five times and everything will

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be better. Well, we could get into a whole story

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of how that whole thing played out for the person

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who wrote that him. All right, but we won't get

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into that. The point is, sometimes our answers, I think

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are nothing more than bumper sticker slogans. They're cliches, they're empty,

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they're meaningless. In many cases, they're a slap in the

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face of the people who are suffering. So I'm going

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to try to explore the major Christian attempts to explain suffering,

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particularly horrific suffering, and I'm going to try to evaluate

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the logical coherence and the philological soundness, and how basically

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honest Christian attempts have been. So I'm going to try again.

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I'm going to try to explore here's what I want

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to do, to try to explore how Christian Christianity has

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attempted to explain suffering, particularly horrific suffering, and I'm going

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to try to evaluate their logical coherence, their philological soundness,

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and their honesty. How honest have they really been? Right?

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So let's look at so there's kind of like the

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weight of the question. Why we need to ask the

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question because suffering continues to happen all around us. So

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let's look at maybe kind of the core biblical tension,

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all right, before diving into maybe the systems of explanation

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because Christianity has a number of systems to try to

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explain this, I think we have to acknowledge a biblical tension.

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I think we have to acknowledge this. All right, let's

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just go through some of these. God is said in

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the Bible to be all powerful. We would use the

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theological term omnipotent. We see this in Job forty two,

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Psalm one fifteen. I could go to number of scriptures.

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I'm not going to look up all the scriptures, but

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it is a clear biblical teaching that God is omnipotent,

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all powerful, all powerful. God is all powerful. Just wrap

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your mind around that there is a God and he

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is all powerful. More powerful than a seven point seven

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magnitude earthquake, more powerful than a tornado, a flow, more

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powerful than anyone who's out there doing horrific things, more

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powerful than disease, storm, murder, war, famine, disease, more powerful

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than everything. Now that's comforting, right, There's a God that's

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more powerful. Second, God is said to be all knowing.

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The theological term is omniscient Psalm one thirty nine, Hebrews

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four thirteen. God is said to be all knowing. So

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God is said to be all powerful. He is said

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to be all knowing, and number three, God is said

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to be good and loving. First John four eight one seven.

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God is good, God is loving. God is all knowing.

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God is all powerful. Yet suffering exists often on a massive,

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incomprehensible scale. And he and we should add, maybe I

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should add to this. God is creator, He's the he's

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the author and finisher. He's the beginning, right, So he's

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the beginning. He's omnipotent, he's omniscient, he's supposedly good and loving.

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So in all knowing, God, who's all powerful, creates everything

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clearly knowing what's going to happen. He knows exactly what's

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going to corect he knows. There's no way to get

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around this. He knows, and he knows exactly what's going

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to happen, Yet he creates. So then this leads us

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with some kind of this is where the tension is.

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The Bible clearly shows that God is creator, he's all powerful,

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he's omniscient, he's supposedly good and loving. So if God

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is all three of just those things, are all four

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of those things creator, powerful, knowing, good, why does evil

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and suffering exist? The problem of evil is often divided

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into a couple of categories. Some refer to it as

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moral evil, this is human wickedness, rape, murder, war, Some

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refer to this as natchural or well, I'm not okay,

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let me state this correctly. The three separate categories that

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typically historically we kind of break suffering into our evil

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into moral evil, human wickedness, rate, murder, war. The second

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category would be natural evil suffering caused by nature earthquakes, diseases,

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And the third would be horrific evil. Suffering so profound

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it seems irredeemable. So moral evil, natural evil, and we'll

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call it horrific evil. Those are kind of the three categories.

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Not not everyone uses those three categories. But hey, there's evil,

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there's pain, there's suffering in the world, there's moral evil,

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there's natural evil, and there's horrific evil that is so

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bad that we don't even know what to say or do.

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It's irredeemable, it almost seems so. Within Christianity, we have

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the historical explanations and we have the more modern explanations.

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Sometimes in theology we may use the word the historical

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and modern theo to sees theodicies. This is kind of

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an attempt to explain or justify that God is good

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in the face of great evil and horror. Maybe an oversimplification,

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but that's kind of the idea. So the first one

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everyone runs to. This is the first one. You know it.

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You've heard it a million times. Free will. God has

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given man free will, free will, free will, free will.

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Somehow that always makes people feel better. Free will, that

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makes everything better. I don't know how it makes anything better.

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Because God gave free will knowing exactly what man would

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do with free will, and know all the pain and

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suffering that would arise from free will. So I don't

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know how that makes everyone feel better. Hey, Hey, man

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has free will. Don't blame God. We'll see. God created

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the world knowing exactly what was going to happen, and

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knowing that man had free will, created a being named Satan.

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Allow that person to tempt the people, knowing they had

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free will, knowing that they would choose to send, and

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then knowing that every other person after them would be

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born a sinner. So then you have if everyone is

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born a sinner and you have a sinful nature, is

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your will really free? Then you get into all kinds

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of theological discussions about that, because if your will is free,

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then you're not really totally depraved. But if you're totally depraved,

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then your will is not really free. And if your

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will is free, then just choose to be perfect and

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holy and keep the law perfectly. You can't do that, well,

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then that means you don't have free will. So I

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can destroy the argument of free will in five seconds. Right,

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if you have free will, then keep God's law perfectly,

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be holy as he is holy. Oh you can't do that.

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Why can't you? I wonder what? Because your will is

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not free, Because if your will is free, you could.

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So now we've already destroyed the argument of free will.

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Free will obviously doesn't exist, and even if it did exist,

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God is the one that gave it to you, knowing

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exactly what you were going to do. So the free

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will defense goes something like this, God gave humans free will.

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Evil exists because humans misuse it. God does not interfere

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because free will is necessary for love and more wild responsibility. Now,

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not only is this a different problem. If everyone has

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free will and God doesn't interfere because he doesn't want

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to violate anyone's free will, then what's the point of praying,

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because praying becomes ridiculous, It just becomes a waste of time. God,

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I can pray, but I can't let you do anything

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that could interfere with anyone's free will. Or I know

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you won't interfere with anyone's free will. So really, I

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don't know what you can do, because any intervention is

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gonna be probably some impact on someone's free will somehow,

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some way. Now, some people say that the free will

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defense has some kind of defense. They say it explains

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moral evil, it explains human sin and injustice. But does

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it really explain moral evil? Does it really explain human

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sin and injustice? Because God created man, but he also

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created the very instrument Satan, who would then tempt man.

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So and once Satan rebelled, he could have gotten rid

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of Satan. He could have stopped Satan. So and then

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and then again once Adam and Eve sin. If everyone

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is born a sinner, then does free will even exist

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at that point? So the whole and because again, if

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free will exists and everyone could just then you could

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have perfect people without anything, because their will is just

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completely free. Everyone could just be morally perfect. But no

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one in the history of mankind has been morally perfect

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other than Jesus Christ, who was true God and true man.

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So then I mean you've got a million problems right there.

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Some will say, well, good thing about free will. It

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preserves the integrity of human choice. I guess, I guess.

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But here's the problem. First, it fails to explain natural evil. Obviously,

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you know, free will doesn't have any impact on natural

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evil like the earthquake and me and mar It doesn't

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explain It doesn't explain disease, doesn't explain disability, doesn't explain

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a lot of horrible things that happen. So free will

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doesn't even explain that. It doesn't address God's silence or

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failure to intervene. He could stop or murder without removing

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free will? Or well could he? Could he stop or

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murder without removing free will? He possibly could, I guess.

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Maybe it fails to explain animal suffering or suffering prior

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to human sin. Scripture often shows God intervening in human will,

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Pharaoh's heart, Paul's conversion, So why not intervene to stop

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a rape or a child murderer? And that's true. There's

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times in the Bible where God clearly intervenes. He intervened. Right,

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the men of Sodom surrounded a house. He intervened, didn't

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let them do what they wanted to do. There's all

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countless other situations where God intervenes. God intervenes, God intervenes,

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God intervenes. He's intervening here. So if God can intervene there,

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well why not he? Why not intervene and stop that

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child from being molested? Why not intervene and stop that

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child from being murdered? Why not intervene and stop that rape?

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Why not intervene stop that abuse? Why not intervene and

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stop that Why not intervene and stop that child from

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being born with a horrific childhood disease? I mean, if God,

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I mean, come on, So so God intervenes countless times

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in the Bible. But if if you're going to say

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a free will where he can't intervene, then again, what's

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the point of prayer? And again, I can already destroy

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the free will argument in five seconds, because if you

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truly have free will, then just be perfect. Well then

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obviously you can't be perfect, So obviously your will is

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not free because whatever is keeping you from getting to

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perfection obviously is in control, therefore you're not free. So

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I mean, I've already destroyed that a million different ways.

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So I don't know what the free will argument really.

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I don't know why people use that. They somehow they

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You'll see this in comments under news articles Christians and

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when when Usually when atheists or agnostics starts saying, well

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where was God where? Well, God's given man free will

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or what do you expect? And it's like, I don't

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know how that makes you feel any better? That God,

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who knew what was going to happen, is the one

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who gave the free will. Now he can intervene here, here, here,

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and here those same people within quote scripture where God

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clearly is intervening, but but he can't intervene in that situation. No,

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you don't want him to be able to intervene in

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that situation because it want to makes you feel better.

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But if God can't intervene, then is he really sovereign?

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I mean, there's just a mill and if he can't intervene,

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then why pray? I know, I know I'm being repetitive,

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but I just like the whole thing just drives me

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crazy when I hear Christians even mentioned the words free

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will because it seems like they've never thought this beyond

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I don't know, they just heard the phrase and they're like, oh,

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I'm gonna use this to justify anything that well that

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I can't explain, and it it just five seconds of

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thinking about it, it logically collapses in on itself. The

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second kind of So there's the first way that people

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try to somehow answer this free will defense, and again

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at the free will defense just goes nowhere. It's a

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it's just it's it's it's meaningless. The second school of

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thought throughout church history. This goes back pretty pretty far

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in church history. We'll call this soul making theodicy, Soul

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making theodicy, soul making theodicy. Now, I know I sound

399
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like I'm in a seminary classroom here, but I'll try

400
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to break this down all right. Basically, soul making theodicy

401
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:32.960
is the idea that suffering exists to help you grow

402
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in virtue, to develop you, to strengthen you. Right, it's

403
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:46.039
it's soul making theodicy, or suffering exists to help you grow.

404
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It's to make you better. See, we become more mature,

405
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we become more compassionate, we become more spiritually whole through hardship. See,

406
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the reason I was born in the family I was

407
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born in and beaten and all the horrible things that

408
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happened to me is because God wanted me to be mature.

409
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He wanted me to be compassionate, he wanted me to

410
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be spiritually whole. Now, for some reason, some of you

411
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weren't born. You were born in good families, and life's

412
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been great. And right now you've got a good life.

413
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You've got a husband. You've got a wife, you've got family,

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you've got a house, you got everything's great. You've got intimacy, friendship, companionship,

415
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you've got everything great. Well, why is it that you've

416
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:32.000
got everything and other people don't? Well? Is it because

417
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you're more spiritually mature, You're more compassionate, you're more spiritually whole,

418
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and you don't need to suffer. So you then look

419
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at people who are suffering, going, Well, the reason you're

420
00:27:46.279 --> 00:27:50.480
suffering is because God's trying to make you better. I

421
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hope you learn the lesson because look at me, Look

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at how great I am. I'm not suffering because my

423
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life is so wonderful. I'll just stop talking this again.

424
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This is preached from pulpits. It's usually kind of dressed up,

425
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but it's the idea that God is. God brings the

426
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difficulties and trials in your life to make you better.

427
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God wants to make you better. Okay, so one thousand,

428
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six hundred people died to make who better? Obviously not

429
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the people who died, so to make the people left

430
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over trying to find their child's buried body to make

431
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them better. Now, some people think that this is a

432
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strong explanation because it gives redemptive meaning to suffering. Hey,

433
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there's a purpose in your suffering. There's a reason for

434
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your suffering. So and I guess maybe you can find

435
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some comfort in that. But again, that only that only

436
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.640
sounds good sitting in church, look in the face of

437
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someone who has been molested for fifteen years and say, hey,

438
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there's reason for your suffering. God was doing that for

439
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:05.440
your good. You were being molested night after night after

440
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:08.839
night because God wanted things to be so much better

441
00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:12.519
for you. Now, I was never molested, but hey, you know,

442
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:16.319
maybe if I was as spiritually messed up as you were,

443
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then I would have been molested. I mean, come on,

444
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what about the child who's born with a horrible, horrible

445
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terminal disease, who goes through ten, fifteen twenty surgeries, suffer suffers,

446
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and basically their life from the age of one to

447
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fifteen is one of never ending suffer, suffering and pain,

448
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and then they die and they don't even get to

449
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:48.880
make it to sixteen. Hey, God had a purpose in it.

450
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God minute for good. Now. Some people would say the

451
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soul making Theodicy fits with text like James shepter one

452
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and Romans Chapter five. Could we could get into that?

453
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Now here's the problem. I mean, I've already kind of

454
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pointed out a lot of the problems with soul making

455
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the Odyssey always jump ahead sometimes, but I mean, I

456
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:16.440
think we can. I think I think this is fair

457
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:18.160
to say. You can tell me if you think I'm right.

458
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:22.920
Horrific suffering typically a lot of times shatters people more

459
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:26.640
than it builds them up. Sometimes horrific suffering just literally

460
00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:30.200
destroys people and they live lifelong with the scars, with

461
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:35.359
the trauma and all the negative impacts. And also would

462
00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:39.039
seem to imply soul Making the Odyssey that children who

463
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:44.279
die young or in terror, the me and Mar earthquake victims,

464
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.640
that they serve as a tool for the spiritual growth

465
00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:51.480
of other people. Hey, that child was crushed to death

466
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:57.000
in an earthquake, so that you can grow spiritually that Hey,

467
00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:02.880
your child was killed, that you can grow. Your child

468
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:06.480
will paralyzed, so you can grow. Your child is suffering

469
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:09.599
year after year after year with that horrible disease and disability,

470
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:14.839
so that you can grow. Is maturity really worth a

471
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:25.559
child's crushed skull? Spiritual maturity really worth a child's crushed skull?

472
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:27.480
Is it really worth it? Is it really worth a

473
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:34.240
child being suffering? Is your spiritual maturity really worth fifteen

474
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:43.680
years of being molested? Romans eighth, nineteen through twenty two

475
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:48.720
speaks of creation groaning in bondage, not as a virtue factory,

476
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.880
but as something awaiting redemption. I think that's true. Romans

477
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.359
eight speaks of creation groaning in bondage, but not as

478
00:31:56.359 --> 00:31:59.079
a virtue factory. Now this is the factory that's going

479
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:02.240
to make everyone better, but almost as something awaiting redemption.

480
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:06.880
And only that this kind of this, this view of

481
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:14.240
soul making theodicy, seems to make God like utilitarian right.

482
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:17.160
He's willing to let a few suffer horribly for the

483
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:23.119
so called greater good of others character. That's that seems problematic,

484
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:25.960
all right, So number one, we have the free will

485
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:31.039
defense that one fell apart soul making theodicy that's kind

486
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:33.519
of more of a technical term, but it's basically the

487
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:38.400
idea suffering exists to help people grow. Now what people do.

488
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:41.200
They will try to limit this. Well, no, it's only

489
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:43.680
suffering that happens to you, not suffering that happens to

490
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:45.799
someone else. But now you're not explaining the suffering that

491
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:49.079
happens to someone else, right, So then it becomes well,

492
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:52.200
it's not it's not like, well, this only applies to

493
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:55.319
different It doesn't apply to like child molestation or rape

494
00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:58.319
or child abuse. It only applies to like you know,

495
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:01.160
And so then we have to try to start modifying it,

496
00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:07.839
and it becomes very subjective. But the basic concept is

497
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:12.160
built into the DNA of Christianity. Christianity loves this concept.

498
00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:16.599
Pastors love to teach this, and everyone in the pug Oh, yeah,

499
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:19.200
I'm going through these difficulties. But God's got a purpose

500
00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:24.559
in it, and I'll know the reason one day and

501
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:28.400
try to and give some one a sense of comfort.

502
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:34.759
But man, the philosophical problems that arise from it are staggering. Now,

503
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:41.039
the third view within church history is the divine judgment view.

504
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:48.359
Suffering is God's judgment for sin, either individual or collective. Now,

505
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:50.599
some people would say that this has a strength because

506
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:54.920
you have biblical precedents Sodom, Egypt, and Babylon, and it

507
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.880
appeals to the idea of divine justice. Hey, people are sinners,

508
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:03.359
so God can kill, destroy, You can suffer anytime because

509
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:06.440
you're a sinner. So God, you can be a beaten, abused, raped,

510
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.000
murder because you are a sinner. That's what it ultimately

511
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:12.239
leads to. One six hundred people die in an earthquake. Well,

512
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:14.519
they were all a bunch of sinners anyway, these people

513
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:18.480
died in a hurricane. They were all sinners. Well, the

514
00:34:18.519 --> 00:34:20.840
fact is we're all sinners, So then we all can suffer,

515
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.039
we can all conduct all, and we should just accept

516
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:25.480
it because we're all sinners. Now, why am I a sinner?

517
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:27.679
Well because I was born that way. Did I do

518
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:30.000
anything to be born that way? No? Why was I

519
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:35.960
born that way? So even if I'm a sinner, I'm

520
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.679
a sinner because I was born a center. So now

521
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:42.840
I can just suffer because I was born that way. Oh,

522
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:48.920
now that that becomes majorly problematic. Now the problem with

523
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:52.039
this view, why are children crushed in me and mar

524
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.239
but serial killers live to be I don't know, seventy

525
00:34:55.360 --> 00:35:01.960
eighty ninety. It's often used irresponsibly blaming nine to eleven

526
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:05.960
or Hurricane Katrina on societal sins. Oh, Christians love that

527
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:10.079
nine to eleven happens because America is sinful. The Hurricane

528
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:14.519
Katrina happened because there was an LGBTQ parade somewhere, So

529
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:19.320
people have to die. It implies God is punishing some

530
00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:30.360
while sparing others in a very arbitrary way. Now, John

531
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:34.760
chapter nine, Jesus seems to reject linking specific suffering to

532
00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:40.599
specific sin. Luke thirteen, Jesus seems to warn not to

533
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:45.440
assume those who die in tragedy were worse sinners. So

534
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:48.199
we got some scriptures there that seem to go against

535
00:35:48.199 --> 00:35:56.719
this idea, so that one, I know, we like it

536
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:59.400
to some level. Right, Well, anyone can suffer and anyone

537
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.320
can die because we're sinners, so therefore God, God can

538
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:05.320
just make us suffer any time. But that just really like, Hey,

539
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.079
why was I molested for fifteen years? Well, you're a center.

540
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.880
Why were you beaten. Well because you're a sinner. Oh

541
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:13.440
why did this horrible tragedy occur? Because you are a sinner.

542
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.760
Why did I lose half of my family in a flood? Well,

543
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:24.039
because you're a sinner. I mean that one. I think again,

544
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.400
sitting in a seminary classroom on a Tuesday night, or

545
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.559
sitting in a church classroom, you may find like, Okay,

546
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:36.159
well this helps explain when you take it out into

547
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:38.559
the real world, I don't think it works, right, So

548
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:42.199
let's go through the different systems within Christianity that's tried

549
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:44.159
to explain all of this. All right, So what have

550
00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:46.800
we done so far? We talked about the weight of

551
00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:50.079
the question. We've talked about the core biblical tension, because

552
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:53.880
God is the creator, all powerful, all knowing, and said

553
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:57.119
to be good and loving. We've talked about the historical

554
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:01.239
and modern explanations, or we can call them theodicy if

555
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:04.000
you want to use a more technical philological term, a

556
00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:07.400
free will defense. Just that one exploded within five point

557
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:09.800
two seconds. The free will defense is the most ridiculous thing.

558
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:12.199
When Christians even say that I just I just shake

559
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:14.320
my head, and you hear it in movies. You hear

560
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:16.760
it everywhere. Oh my goodness, I get so tired of

561
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:20.840
hearing it all right, soul making theodicy. We talked about

562
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:23.719
that when the divine judgment, and then number four. We'll

563
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:31.400
call this the mysterious sovereignty view. The mysterious sovereignty view

564
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:34.679
goes something like this, God has a plan that we

565
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:41.239
can't understand. Everything, including suffering, is under his sovereign control.

566
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:47.719
So just trust him. Hey, we don't God's doing something

567
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:54.519
you don't understand it. This includes everything, suffering, murder, rape, molestation,

568
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:58.920
it includes everything, and it's all under his sovereign control.

569
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:02.880
So what should you do? Hey, just trust him, Just

570
00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:08.039
trust him, Just trust him. It's all it's all good,

571
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:12.280
it's all under control. Now what what is the strength

572
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:14.079
of this? Some would say the strength is this. This

573
00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:18.159
affirms God's control and his majesty. So some people like

574
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:20.920
this because well, okay, this is not all random, it's

575
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:23.239
not chaotic. God is in control of all of this.

576
00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:26.000
So it sounds good and it preaches good, right, it

577
00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:30.199
preaches good and uh and and at least in some

578
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:34.639
ways this avoids any Some will say this avoids simplistic explanations.

579
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.320
I don't know. I think in and of itself. It's

580
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.519
still trying to offer a simplistic explanation, right, But I

581
00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:41.599
guess the way out of this is, Hey, God has

582
00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:43.360
a plan we don't understand, so I don't have to

583
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:46.000
really explain it, just I just know God has a plan.

584
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:49.480
He's sovereign, he's controlling it. So everything that happens is

585
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:51.599
somehow a part of his plan. Now that's easy for

586
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:55.400
me to say if I'm not in the one in

587
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:57.480
the midst of the suffering. But if you're in the

588
00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:59.400
midst of the suffering, I mean, do you look at

589
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:02.480
it a child who's being molested and go, hey, God

590
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:06.039
has a bland that we can't understand. Everything, including your

591
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:15.079
your abuse, is under his sovereign control, so just trust him.

592
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:18.599
See again, these concepts sound. This is what I think,

593
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:20.920
this is. I say this all the time. Theology at

594
00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:25.599
its very core is very theoretical. It's very It works

595
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:28.920
great in a theoretical setting. It's when you move it

596
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:34.719
into the real world and you put a face pain, suffering, death, abuse,

597
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:38.920
mea Mary, six hundred people were there and then they

598
00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:41.360
were just gone. The earth just kind of opened up

599
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:45.719
and swallowed them up, gone, crushed all of a sudden,

600
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:48.599
It's like, why, man, these things sound good in church.

601
00:39:48.679 --> 00:39:51.599
They sound so good when the pastor preaches them, but

602
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:54.119
they don't always work. And this is why Christians are

603
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:57.159
so ill equipped. This is why when you suffer, Christians

604
00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:00.000
show up and say some of the most I'm telling you,

605
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:02.679
some of the dumbest things ever uttered and their mouth,

606
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:06.039
their mouths. It's I mean, the things Christians said to

607
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:08.639
my sister when our mother died, and she was much

608
00:40:08.679 --> 00:40:10.920
younger than me, but the crazy I was like, what

609
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:15.559
I was like, just shut up, just stop talking to her.

610
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:19.079
The things they said to me standing at my mother's grave,

611
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:23.400
I'm just like, could could someone bring me some atheist

612
00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:25.840
and Satanists here to talk to me? Because they can

613
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:29.119
offer better comfort than this nonsense these Christians are saying

614
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:32.079
to me. Because the Christians are just they're giving this

615
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:36.719
theoretical a little couple, a couple of philological concepts, and

616
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:39.239
they just throw it out there thinking it's gonna make

617
00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:41.639
someone feel better, and really it's just them taking a

618
00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:44.599
knife shoving it so far into your chest that you

619
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:47.719
die in five seconds, and they all going, I hope

620
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:56.079
that made you feel better. Brother. So the mysterious sovereignty

621
00:40:56.079 --> 00:40:59.039
of you. Okay, so what are the problems with this? Well,

622
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:02.000
it offers no comfort to the grieving beyond God knows best.

623
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:06.440
That's basically what it says. Hey, you're suffering. Hey, God

624
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:14.199
knows best, so don't complain. God knows best. It kind

625
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:17.199
of risks turning God in kind of a God is

626
00:41:17.239 --> 00:41:21.599
a cold cosmic chess master. Hey, he's the chess master.

627
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.760
You're on the chessboard. God's moving you where he wants you.

628
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.760
Aren't you in that amazing glorify God. You get to

629
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.440
be on his chessboard, and he has decided to move

630
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:37.800
you to the place of beating, abuse, torture, suffering, disease,

631
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:41.239
and death. Hey, you get to be in his chest piece.

632
00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:48.960
And also seems not to take into a consideration. And

633
00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:53.159
I know this is a philological argument here, but is

634
00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:56.039
there a distinction between what God causes and what God permits?

635
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:01.800
Is if everything is for us a reason, well then

636
00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:10.079
genocide is too. Now I know I'm getting I'm gonna

637
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:12.920
get people who hold to specific theologies right now, I'm

638
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.159
gonna take off everyone. Look, I'm ticking off people who

639
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:18.480
hold the free will. I'm taking off the reform people.

640
00:42:18.559 --> 00:42:21.000
I'm taking off. I'm taking off people who hold to

641
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.280
a strong sovereignty view. I'm taking off people who hold

642
00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:26.440
to the London Baptist Confession of faith. You look at

643
00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:31.000
God's providence and God's decrees. He decrees everything that comes about. Now,

644
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:34.079
they say, but secondary gods, the secondary gouz is I understand.

645
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:36.559
I look, I have heard all of the arguments. What

646
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:43.079
I'm trying to demonstrate is every system falls wildly short

647
00:42:43.159 --> 00:42:46.480
of coming up with anything that's even remotely comforting. And

648
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:48.400
I don't think I think most of these don't even

649
00:42:48.679 --> 00:42:53.119
hold any much logical consistency. Now, some of you guys say,

650
00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:57.239
but what's your answer? What's your answer? I'm trying to explain.

651
00:42:57.360 --> 00:42:59.519
I don't think anybody has an answer if we're even

652
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:07.199
remotely honest with ourselves Isaiah fifty five, eight through nine.

653
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:09.599
My thoughts are higher than your thoughts. My ways are

654
00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:11.920
you know is often used here, But job shows that

655
00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:17.800
God's mystery doesn't excuse injustice. The Cross shows God entering suffering,

656
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:21.920
not staying above it, and a detached sovereignty. Now you

657
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:24.559
could say he enters into it because of God's sovereignty.

658
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:27.400
I don't know if those are our issues. I know

659
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:29.880
we lock to say God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts.

660
00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:33.400
Now that isn't Isaiah fifty five, So what is that referencing?

661
00:43:33.559 --> 00:43:36.679
I know, we just take that out of its context, right,

662
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:39.360
we take it out of its comman we're working through

663
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:41.679
Isaiah forty through fifty five. When we see how pastors

664
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:44.599
do that all the time, I've taken his thoughts are

665
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:46.639
higher than my thoughts. His ways are not my ways.

666
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:49.320
I've used that out of context probably a million times

667
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:56.400
as well. All right, So how about a fifth way?

668
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:02.760
This one is known as natural law theodicy. Natural law theodicy,

669
00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:09.400
This one says God created a consistent, lawful natural order.

670
00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:15.960
Earthquakes and viruses are part of that system. Without natural law,

671
00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:19.719
the world would be chaotic. I don't really know how

672
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:22.440
this really works, because I would look at the world

673
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:26.320
now and it is chaotic. Now, some will say the

674
00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:30.960
strength of natural law theodices explains why the world behaves predictably. Now,

675
00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:35.920
I guess you could say it's predictably chaotic. It's predictably chaotic,

676
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:40.000
So therefore this is God's natural law theodosy. It seems chaotic,

677
00:44:40.039 --> 00:44:42.920
but it's not really chaotic because it's working according to

678
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:46.280
God's natural law. So it just has the appearance of chaos.

679
00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:49.599
It has the appearance of unpredictability. But what's predictable is

680
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:52.880
how unpredictable it is. I guess you could go that direction.

681
00:44:56.400 --> 00:45:01.360
Some will say this would account for natural processes hurricanes, tornadoes,

682
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:05.559
tectonic movement of you know, tectonic plates moving, and earthquakes.

683
00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:08.920
I guess you could go with this idea. But again

684
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:11.119
it's still God is the one who created it to

685
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:13.840
be this way, knowing all the pain, suffering and death

686
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:18.000
that's going to occur. So what are the problems? Well,

687
00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:21.480
once again, it doesn't address why God doesn't intervene when

688
00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:25.719
those laws kill thousands millions. It doesn't answer why he

689
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:28.639
created a world with this kind of suffering embedded into it,

690
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:32.920
and it doesn't really offer any moral or pastoral comfort. Again,

691
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:35.440
there's no comfort to be offered here. See all of

692
00:45:35.480 --> 00:45:37.840
these things. Ultimately, just say, way, this is just the

693
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:40.199
way it is, get over it, or at worse, you

694
00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:43.840
deserve it. It's either just like, hey, this is the way

695
00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:46.960
it's supposed to be, just accept it, or you deserve it.

696
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.199
That's really where are you caused it. Okay, I guess.

697
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:55.199
I mean none of these offer any real ability to comfort.

698
00:45:55.239 --> 00:45:58.239
That's why most of the comfort offered by pastors, in

699
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.199
many cases I think, contradict the very theology they teach.

700
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:13.199
Romans eight says creation is subjected to futility? Is that

701
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:18.599
by necessity or by design? Why is the natural world

702
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:25.719
so full of cruelty? Of God? Could have made it otherwise? Now?

703
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:30.880
Those are the five basic systems. Now that you could

704
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:32.880
probably break this down to a little bit more, let

705
00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:35.440
me go through them again. The free will defense. Okay,

706
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:39.679
that imploded. That's just that's the most man. Oh when

707
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:41.719
anytime I get an email and someone talks to me

708
00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:44.679
about free will, I just I almost want to respond, Okay,

709
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.760
before we continue, since you believe in free will, would

710
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:50.519
I would ask you now to be perfect, and then

711
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:52.440
after you show me that you're perfect, and I will

712
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:55.239
believe free will exist because if free will exists, you

713
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:57.480
can freely choose to be perfect. Well, since you can't,

714
00:46:57.639 --> 00:46:59.800
then that means there's something holding you back. That means

715
00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:03.280
something keeping you for freely being perfect. So what is

716
00:47:03.320 --> 00:47:05.480
that very thing? Okay, Well, then the whole thing falls

717
00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:11.480
apart or so soul making theodicy. All right, God, God's

718
00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:13.360
causing all this pain and suffering or allowing all this

719
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:16.239
pain and suffering for your to make you better, because

720
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:18.639
you need to be made better. And again, just think

721
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:20.679
all the suffering in the world. You could be tied

722
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:23.840
up in a closet and beaten and beaten. They can

723
00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:26.400
withhold food from you, They could burn you with a

724
00:47:26.440 --> 00:47:29.239
curling iron, whip you with an electric cord. They can

725
00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:31.480
beat you and beat you and beat you and beat

726
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:33.679
you and beat you and beat you. You know what,

727
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:36.280
It's never going to change. It's not going to improve

728
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:43.960
my sinful nature, not one little bit. So when we

729
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:47.400
say suffering makes us better, we got to somehow explain

730
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:50.840
that because it's not making the sinful nature better. The

731
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:56.599
sinful nature it's still going to be there, right. Number three,

732
00:47:56.840 --> 00:48:00.880
divine judgment view, then the mysterious into view, and then

733
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:04.599
natural law theodicy. And I struggle with the natural law

734
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:08.480
one well, I struggle with all of them. So what

735
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:12.480
are some of the let's let's look at four. Let's

736
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:16.679
look at four possible philological problems across all of these models.

737
00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:22.719
All right, uh, I think one it kind of turns

738
00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:25.320
suffering into some kind of an instrument. In other words,

739
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:29.159
you make people's trauma a means to an end. It's

740
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:33.199
for someone else's growth. Hey, you suffer so that someone

741
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:36.880
else can grow. Some people will try that kind of mess,

742
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:40.440
that kind of I'm not a fan of that, those

743
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:43.119
people suffer so that you can grow. That I don't.

744
00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:45.440
I don't think that's very popular. I don't think Christians

745
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:47.719
usually explain it that way. They typically explain it your

746
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:50.480
suffering so that you can grow. But then that's just

747
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:54.719
then your trauma is just a means to an end.

748
00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:58.519
And what does that end? That I can grow? What?

749
00:48:58.840 --> 00:49:01.239
I can read my Bible a little bit more, I

750
00:49:01.239 --> 00:49:03.519
can pray a little bit more, I can go to

751
00:49:03.639 --> 00:49:09.639
church a little bit more. I mean that that's this

752
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:14.039
horrible trauma takes place. It serves as an instrument, so

753
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:16.559
that trauma is just an instrument to make me a

754
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:19.760
little bit better, so I will read more, love God more.

755
00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:24.800
And and well, isn't my salvation based on what christ?

756
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:28.719
I'm saved for eternity, So but God's gonna come along

757
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:31.159
even though I'm saved for eternity and then beat me

758
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:34.119
down with trauma so that I will read my Bible more,

759
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:41.760
pray more, and be a better Christian. I mean, that

760
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.880
just seems like I don't even know, like to what

761
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:47.280
how do you even measure? I mean, I don't. That

762
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:51.000
just seems all kinds of problems. It basically turns victims

763
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:54.440
into spiritual tools, especially if you're gonna say that it's

764
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:59.480
it's helping someone else and someone else's narrative. So I

765
00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:01.360
think that he kind of turned suffering into some kind

766
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:03.800
of an instrument and all kinds of problems arise from it.

767
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:06.840
There's also kind of a moral disparity, the idea that

768
00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:10.360
God won't intervene to stop prrific evil, but does intervene

769
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:13.320
in minor things like God help me find my keys.

770
00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:16.159
You hear this Christians all the time. God help me here,

771
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:19.280
God help me here, God help me here. But then

772
00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:22.639
he wouldn't help here or here or here. I had

773
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:27.119
a pastor who was listening to me during the pandemic,

774
00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:29.840
and he walked into my church. He was not very

775
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:32.880
it seems like he seemed very upset with me because

776
00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:35.320
I talked about God not talking to us outside of

777
00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:38.199
the Bible, and he was upset with me. And he's

778
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:40.320
like there was this time, I was driving the car

779
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:43.280
and God told me to stop. He told me to stop,

780
00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:45.880
and I stopped in this truck. I think this truck

781
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:48.079
went by. I would be dead if I didn't listen

782
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:48.480
to God.

783
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:49.639
All right.

784
00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:52.039
So he was upset that I don't believe the God's

785
00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:55.320
talks about the Bible. And I'm like, well, then we're

786
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:57.559
sitting here. I almost wanted to say to him. I

787
00:50:57.559 --> 00:50:59.639
didn't say anything. I was just like, okay, I wasn't

788
00:50:59.639 --> 00:51:01.400
gonna ark, wasn't going to do because he was clearly

789
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:04.360
emotionally upset. I'm like, okay, thank you for sharing your opinion.

790
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:07.760
And then he walked out. It was really odd and uncomfortable,

791
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:10.320
but okay. But I wanted to say, Okay, we're standing

792
00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:12.960
in this church in the middle of nowhere, Texas. If

793
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:17.679
we walk out this church, drive through Tuscola, Texas, right,

794
00:51:18.199 --> 00:51:21.800
we'd go over the railroad track. We'd go about a mile.

795
00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:24.400
I think it's about a mile and a half down

796
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:27.519
the road. Okay, because right before the railroad tracks in Tuscola,

797
00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:30.840
Texas is jim At High School where I went to school, right,

798
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:32.920
And there was a day that I was sitting in

799
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:36.800
that in school with a girl. She was a Pentecostal girl, right,

800
00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:41.400
followed all the rules, loved God, didn't do anything wrong,

801
00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:45.079
never cussed, she was always godly. I took up for

802
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:47.480
her because people made fun of her the way she dressed,

803
00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:50.280
because she was Pentecostal, couldn't wear makeup, you know, dresses

804
00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:52.840
way down to the ankle. And I always defended her,

805
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:56.599
not because I agreed with her Pentecostalism, but because I

806
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:00.840
didn't like people getting picked on. Well, one day after school,

807
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:02.840
you know, I think she thanked me that day. I

808
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:04.719
think she thanked me for taking up for her because

809
00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:07.320
someone had said something in class in her She gets

810
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:09.320
in her car, she leaves the parking lot, goes over

811
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:11.440
the railroad tracks, go the mile mile and a half

812
00:52:11.559 --> 00:52:14.079
down to what we call the y where the highway

813
00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:17.079
eighty three and eighty four kind of splits. She's trying

814
00:52:17.079 --> 00:52:20.639
to cross over boom, gets hit by a truck and

815
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:28.840
she dies. The age what fifteen sixteen dead? Wait? Wait, pastor,

816
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:31.719
who says God to so, God wanted you to live,

817
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:36.880
but didn't want her to live. God intervened to save you.

818
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:40.199
God intervened to help you find your keys. God intervene

819
00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:43.800
to help you. But what about about her? Who's dead?

820
00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:46.599
Who's been dead? I've lived all these years. She died

821
00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:48.480
right there, not just about a mile and a half

822
00:52:48.519 --> 00:52:58.960
from my high school. My friend Greg, who was abused

823
00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:05.400
severely by his parents. Our report cards just came out.

824
00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:08.719
One of his grades I can't remember. I think it

825
00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:10.880
was in the sixties, and he knew that he was

826
00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:12.920
going to go home and he was about to be

827
00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:16.800
beaten because of his performance on his report card. I

828
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:19.840
felt bad for him. I felt horrible. I knew what

829
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:22.960
was going to happen. He gets up. We're sitting on

830
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:25.320
the school bus together. He stands up, he looks at me,

831
00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:29.480
and he says goodbye. Felt weird the way he said it.

832
00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:31.800
I didn't think about it because I'm a kid. I

833
00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:35.679
go home. I'm outside playing football. Ambulance goes flying by.

834
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:38.440
Now that may not sound weird to you, but in

835
00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:42.320
the middle of Buffalo Gap, Texas, you never saw an ambulance.

836
00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:44.440
You never saw it, you know, you never saw anything

837
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:47.280
like that. You never saw herd sirens anywhere. And I

838
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:50.199
didn't think anything about it until I got told a

839
00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:53.639
couple of hours later that Greg went home and hung himself.

840
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:58.320
God did not intervene. God did not intervene to stop

841
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:03.199
his abuse. I did not intervene stopping him from tying

842
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:06.840
a rope, putting around his neck and killing himself. Oh God,

843
00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:09.400
I got more and more stories, my mother's death, my

844
00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:21.800
father's death. Thank God intervenes here, and Christians love to

845
00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:25.079
tell those stories. Oh I couldn't you know? This happened

846
00:54:25.119 --> 00:54:27.480
and God intervened, and God helped me here, and God

847
00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:29.400
helped me here, and God helped me here, and it's

848
00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:31.880
a lot of times it's very insignificant things. Well, I'm

849
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.400
so glad God was intervening, helping you. I don't know,

850
00:54:34.679 --> 00:54:37.719
find your keys or your car started, or or I

851
00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:41.880
don't know. These little things happen, and you're so you're

852
00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:44.760
telling it during testimony time. What about the children who

853
00:54:44.840 --> 00:55:00.440
just died in Meamar. Another problem across all of these

854
00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:04.559
supposed explanations is, in many cases, I think they silence lament.

855
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:12.000
Many theodices are these trying to justify God. They bypass

856
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:16.320
or ignore the biblical language of protest, the Biblical language

857
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:23.599
of weeping, the Biblical language of rage. The laments look

858
00:55:23.599 --> 00:55:27.800
in the Bible and the psalms of lament. They are

859
00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:31.000
filled with protests, they are filled with weeping, they're filled

860
00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:34.480
with rage, and Christians don't like them. I've told the

861
00:55:34.519 --> 00:55:39.199
story before of how a Christian metal band in the

862
00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:42.639
nineties they wrote a song basically taking one of the

863
00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:46.159
psalms of lament where it's screaming out basically, where is

864
00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:48.599
God You've left me? And they turned it into a

865
00:55:48.639 --> 00:55:51.320
song and they got in some cases they were banned

866
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:54.119
from Christian radio because like, well, this is just too negative,

867
00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:56.719
this is just so, this seems to have no faith,

868
00:55:56.719 --> 00:55:58.960
and they were like, it's the words from a psalm

869
00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:02.360
for crying out life? What is wrong with Christianity? Because

870
00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:05.159
Christianity doesn't want to deal with the fact that there

871
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:08.719
are people who stream out and pain because life doesn't

872
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:13.559
make any stinking sense and they don't understand. But shhh,

873
00:56:14.119 --> 00:56:17.679
it always makes sense. Here's your little simple explanation. Now

874
00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:28.599
run off, little boy. Another problem and all of these

875
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:33.519
things is God becomes almost morally unrecognizable. I mean, a

876
00:56:33.559 --> 00:56:36.440
God who lets children be raped, a God who lets

877
00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:39.760
children be crushed, a God who lets children be burned

878
00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:43.559
to death, a God who lets children be mutilated all

879
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:48.800
for his glory becomes alien to I think a concept

880
00:56:48.840 --> 00:57:05.119
of a God of compassion and justice maybe, And I don't.

881
00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:07.400
I'm not saying I have any answers here, ladies and gentlemen.

882
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.719
I'm not even trying to offer any I'm sitting here

883
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:13.239
looking at the news reports of what happened in me

884
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:17.800
and mar and I am just as baffled and confused.

885
00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:19.880
And not just that story. I mean all kinds of

886
00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:22.559
other stories, right, But I mean, I was listening to

887
00:57:22.599 --> 00:57:25.519
the news reports and it's just like, I'm just like,

888
00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:27.079
I don't know what to say. I don't so I

889
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:30.039
just sit here flipping through my Bible like I don't know.

890
00:57:30.280 --> 00:57:32.519
I don't know, I don't know, So I don't know.

891
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:35.199
Does this I just throw this out there. You can

892
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:43.000
tell me what you think. The Bible offers lament Psal thirteen,

893
00:57:44.199 --> 00:57:51.199
Psalm twenty two, p. Eighty eight. The lament gives you

894
00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:56.840
a permission to cry out, gives you permission to accuse,

895
00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:01.519
gives you a permission to protest. It gives you permission

896
00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:08.000
to scream out in pain. We can't silence people's lament.

897
00:58:08.119 --> 00:58:11.519
We gotta let people scream out in pain and be

898
00:58:11.639 --> 00:58:17.639
upset and be angry and be confused. Maybe the Bible

899
00:58:17.719 --> 00:58:24.280
offers some level of solidarity. John eleven thirty five Jesus wept.

900
00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:27.840
Maybe it points to the God who suffers with us

901
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:37.079
to some level. Maybe the Bible offers us some level

902
00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:42.400
of mystery and protest. Like for example, Job, not all

903
00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:45.599
suffering has a revealed reason. I mean, Job never knew

904
00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:47.199
what was going on in Job's story. Seems to be

905
00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:48.719
one of the most messed up stories in the world,

906
00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:53.039
considering people literally died so God and Satan could have

907
00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:57.000
a little contest. I mean, that is some messed up stuff.

908
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:00.280
I mean that story. That story will leave you at

909
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:03.480
night just tossing and turning, going. I do not understand.

910
00:59:03.639 --> 00:59:05.920
You can try to, I know preachers love to try

911
00:59:05.960 --> 00:59:09.440
to turn the story into some positive thing. His children

912
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:12.679
died for crying out loud, so that God and Satan

913
00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:16.679
could have a contest, so you could prove some point.

914
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:21.960
Or of course, well he did this for Job's spiritual growth.

915
00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:26.280
His children had to die so Job could grow spiritually. Really,

916
00:59:26.880 --> 00:59:29.360
the death of children is worth Job growing. What what

917
00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:31.639
did he do more? I mean the Bible already said

918
00:59:31.880 --> 00:59:35.360
at the beginning that he was a man who was perfect, blameless,

919
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:40.280
so all right, the whole thing just becomes a majorly problem.

920
00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:44.880
But we're allowed to question God without condemnation. I think

921
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:46.559
that's I want to make that very clear. We are

922
00:59:46.599 --> 00:59:52.360
allowed to question God without condemnation. Job questioned, Job cried out.

923
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:54.679
Job said everything, and it says and yet he did

924
00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:57.400
not sin. He cursed the day he was born, he

925
00:59:57.440 --> 01:00:01.320
wished he was dead, he had complained against God, yet

926
01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:04.000
he did not sin. That means you can complain, you

927
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.920
can wish you were dead, you could curse the day

928
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:10.360
you were born, and you're not sinning. Christians will tell

929
01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:12.760
you you're sinning. No, they've never read the Book of Job.

930
01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:17.400
Job complained, he was upset, and yet he did not sin.

931
01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:20.480
I mean, you can scream out, you can complain, you

932
01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:23.239
can say things, and it doesn't mean you're committing a sin.

933
01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:33.440
The Bible does offer some hope for restoration. Right, suffering

934
01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:36.559
is not explained away that The Bible never explains away

935
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:38.840
suffering or really offers us any idea, but it does

936
01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:41.239
seem to offer us that one day it's all going

937
01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:44.239
to be removed. There'll be no more pain, no more suffering,

938
01:00:44.400 --> 01:00:47.199
no more death, and no more tears. It does offer

939
01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:50.880
hope for that, not a lot of hope. In the meantime.

940
01:00:57.079 --> 01:01:00.400
I don't think Christianity. This is just my field belief.

941
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:04.920
I don't think Christianity. I don't think it should, in

942
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:08.119
any way shape or form, try to explain away or

943
01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:11.920
try to explain in any way, shape or form, every horror,

944
01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:15.000
every tragedy, every pain, because I'm just going to be

945
01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:21.239
honest with you. It can't do it. It can't do it.

946
01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:27.480
And whenever it does attempt to explain, it becomes cruel,

947
01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:40.400
it becomes abstract, and it becomes extremely dishonest. Now, maybe

948
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:43.960
Christianity finds some comfort that we do believe in a

949
01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:47.840
God that didn't stay far away. He entered our world,

950
01:01:48.519 --> 01:01:54.679
he did suffer, he did weep, he was tortured, he

951
01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:59.679
was murdered, he was buried, and he promised to raise

952
01:02:02.039 --> 01:02:07.440
the broken to eternal life. I don't think we're never

953
01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:14.360
going to find answers. We are kind of promised his presence,

954
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:18.239
and maybe in the ruins and the pain and the suffering,

955
01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:22.880
maybe that's enough to hold on to. I don't know

956
01:02:22.920 --> 01:02:33.840
if it is. I don't know. I know that preachers

957
01:02:33.920 --> 01:02:37.519
like to say that you have God and he is

958
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:39.199
with you, and he will never leave you, He will

959
01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:42.760
never forsake you. Hold on to that. It sounds so

960
01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:46.119
good again in church, But when you live a life

961
01:02:46.159 --> 01:02:51.760
and you either watching someone suffer and die, you find

962
01:02:51.800 --> 01:03:04.280
yourself alone, isolated, know anything? Is it enough? You're alone?

963
01:03:08.159 --> 01:03:11.400
Is God enough? And if God is enough, then why

964
01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:14.880
does everyone else need anybody else? You should be happy

965
01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:17.360
just being alone? But no one else ever seems to

966
01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:20.400
be happy being alone. No one else ever seems to

967
01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:24.159
be happy when people are suffering, you're dying. So why

968
01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:26.639
is it that the people suffering are the told God

969
01:03:26.719 --> 01:03:29.159
is enough, but everyone else can have everything else? I

970
01:03:29.159 --> 01:03:32.320
mean that always seems contradictory. God is all we need.

971
01:03:32.559 --> 01:03:36.360
He's everything we need. Your joy, your happiness, contentment is

972
01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:38.800
found in God. And everyone's sitting there, you know, holding

973
01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:40.679
hands with their spouse, getting get in the car. I

974
01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:42.519
love you, honeylow, I love you, honey. Ey. Kids, you

975
01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:43.960
want to go out and get something to eat, and

976
01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:49.400
then let's get on the boat and go fishing. Oh,

977
01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:54.039
but God is all you need. See it's big talk

978
01:03:54.119 --> 01:03:55.840
to say God is all you need until you wake

979
01:03:55.920 --> 01:04:01.719
up one day and God is all you have, and

980
01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:18.400
then is it enough? Let me end with this.

981
01:04:24.639 --> 01:04:27.960
Hello and welcome to Newzaar from the BBC World Service,

982
01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:30.559
coming live from London. This is Owen Bennett Jones and

983
01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:34.519
we're going straight to Myanmar and after the earthquake, the

984
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:38.639
rescue and the all too familiar scenes of people trapped

985
01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:42.599
under heavy concrete with rescuers trying to reach them. The

986
01:04:42.599 --> 01:04:45.840
military government says over a thousand people have died, a

987
01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:48.639
number it believes is bound to rise, and lots of

988
01:04:48.639 --> 01:04:51.639
governments are offering help. The military have said they need it.

989
01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:55.639
Here's the head of the military hunter, General ming Ang.

990
01:04:55.800 --> 01:05:03.199
Hang. Are still suffering and people are still slowly dying.

991
01:05:05.079 --> 01:05:09.199
Now that's just a me and Mar. There's people suffering

992
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:14.920
all around you, people dying all around you, and at

993
01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:19.239
that very same time, at that very same time, well,

994
01:05:19.239 --> 01:05:21.760
all this suffering and it's happening in me and Mar

995
01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:25.960
and everywhere else around the world, Ukraine, Gaza, wherever else

996
01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:29.480
you want to look to, right wherever the situation you

997
01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:32.960
want to look to, whether that involves large numbers, small numbers,

998
01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:37.039
or individuals, And go to any children's hospital right now

999
01:05:37.039 --> 01:05:39.440
and we'll see the kids that are suffering. You feel

1000
01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:41.440
free to go, you know, go to any cancer ward

1001
01:05:41.480 --> 01:05:44.960
and see the people dying of cancer. At the very

1002
01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:47.559
same time, I hold a Bible right here in my

1003
01:05:47.639 --> 01:05:51.960
hand that says there is a God who created the

1004
01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:56.800
heavens and the earth, that God is all powerful, that

1005
01:05:56.880 --> 01:06:02.800
God is all knowing, and we say that God is Love.

1006
01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:15.039
That tension, that apparent contradiction has never been explained in

1007
01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:18.840
any satisfying way in the history of Christianity. You can

1008
01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:21.679
look at every system that's been thrown at it. Now

1009
01:06:21.760 --> 01:06:23.920
Christians love to feel better about it, and they like

1010
01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:26.480
to make themselves feel good about it, but they're just

1011
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:30.000
playing games. And Christianity has to exist in the face

1012
01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:32.679
of horrible reality. And if it can't exist within the

1013
01:06:32.679 --> 01:06:35.719
face of horrible reality, if our way Christianity exists is

1014
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:38.480
to pretend that horrible reality doesn't or to just throw

1015
01:06:38.599 --> 01:06:42.400
our little bumper stick or cliches at it, then I'm sorry.

1016
01:06:42.440 --> 01:06:45.840
Then Christianity is inadequate. And in many ways it is

1017
01:06:45.880 --> 01:06:48.519
inadequate when it comes to this, because there aren't any

1018
01:06:48.719 --> 01:06:55.840
easy answers. But if we're going to be theologians, people

1019
01:06:55.880 --> 01:06:59.159
who study and pursue the knowledge of God, which should

1020
01:06:59.159 --> 01:07:02.119
be every Christian, then we have to feel this pain

1021
01:07:02.199 --> 01:07:10.519
and the suffering, and this confusion we have to embrace it.

1022
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:14.880
Thanks for listening, God bless