Nov. 13, 2024

Calvinism

Calvinism

A response to an email question about Calvinism

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A response to an email question about Calvinism

WEBVTT

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Good afternoon everyone.

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It is Wednesday, November thirteenth, twenty twenty four. It is

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currently one forty two pm Central Time, and I am

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coming to you live from the Theology Central studio located

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right here in Albilene, Texas. Now, let me speak directly

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to you who are a church member, those of you

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who are church members, right, those of you who attend church.

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You are a church member, or maybe you're not a

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member of a church, but you attend church on a

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regular basis, or you're just a Christian. I don't know

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what your connection is with a church or not with

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a church, but you are a Christian. In other words,

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I'm going to speak to all Christians church member, non

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church member, church attender, non church attender, all Christians who

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are not pastors, who are not your You're not a

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seminary professor, you're not a teacher, you're not you just

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go to church. You're just a believer, all right. I

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want to speak to you directly, and I want to

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ask you some questions or question. I don't know how

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many I may ask here. I may just take the

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same question or rephrase it a number of different ways

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as a Christian, as not a pastor, not a seminary professor,

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just as someone who goes to church attends church, a

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member of a church, as a Christian as a lay person,

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maybe we use that term. I want to make sure

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I can try to find every category I can mention

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so that no one feels left out. All right, I

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want to make sure everyone knows I'm asking you this

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question when it comes to philological and doctrinal disputes that

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have been going on for two thousand years in Christianity

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and no one can agree. How do you handle it

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as just an everyday lay person? What do you do?

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How do you handle it? You do you hear? Well?

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I listened to this side. I listen to this side.

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Or here's the millennialist, here's the dispensationalist. Okay, wait, here's

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the Calvinists, Here's the non Calvinists, here's the here's the

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people for pro infant baptism. Here's the people against infant baptism.

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Here's people who believe sprinkling is okay. Here's the people

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who believe immersion is okay. Here's people who believe in

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open communion. Here's people who believe in close communion. Here's

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people who believed in closed communion. Here's people who believe

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you could lose your salvation. Here's people who believe you

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can't lose your salvation. Here's lordship salvation, Here's non lordship salvation.

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Here's easy believism. Here's free grace. Oh oh, And it

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goes on and on and on and on and on

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and on and on and on and on and on

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and on and on and on. What do you do?

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Do you just kind of just pick your own just

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kind of say, well, you know what, I'm gonna go

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with this side. I'm gonna go with this side. Do

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you do you decide, Okay, I'm gonna dig in to

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every part of this poological debate, and I'm gonna read

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all the books on this side, and I'm going to

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read all the books on this side. Do you just

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decide to dig in and do extensive, you know, six

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month long studies in the Bible alone, trying to figure

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out which one is true and which one is false?

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You at some point you just throw up your hands

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and go, you know what, it doesn't really matter because

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nobody agrees. How do you handle all of it? How

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do you handle it? What do you do? How do

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you find any peace? Does it bother you of the

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never ending debates and disagreements? Does it drive you crazy

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that there's this group, in this group, and this and

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every group thinks they're right. Everyone thinks they're right. The

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Presbyterian thinks they're right. The Baptist thinks they're right, the

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Lutheran thinks they're right, The Greek Orthodox thinks they're right,

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the Episcopalian thinks they're right. You just go on and on,

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the Methodist, the Church of Christ. Everyone thinks they're right.

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And everyone will hold up a Bible and say that

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we believe in the inerrancy that the Word of God

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is infallible, it is preserved, it's God's word, it is

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there are authority, it is the soul authority, and we

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base all of our teaching on the Word of God.

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And while everyone says that, for some weird reason, everyone

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comes to radically different opinions and conclusions, and they believe

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those conclusions are not just their opinion, they believe that

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those conclusions are right. They are dogmatic, and if you

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disagree with them, you may be labled a heretic All

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of that happens continually within Christendom, day in day out.

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This is the right teaching, No, this is the right teaching. Well,

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and everyone will say the scriptures are the final authority,

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the sole authority, the inerrant and followable Word of God

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is the authority. And then like du Well, this group

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says that. This group says that. So everyone says the

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Word of God is the final authority, but nobody agrees

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and what that authority actually says or what it teaches?

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Are you just happy to say this is what I

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believe and just leave it at that. Just leave it

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at that. And if you hear something that contradicts what

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you believe, you ask your pastor you ask someone who

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already agrees with you to recommend some books that will

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help prove your point and disprove their point. Do you

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listen to the other side? Do you consider the other side?

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Do you realize at some point it's just you're never

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gonna come to an answer? What do you do? Like?

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How do you approach it? Does it drive you insane? Well?

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The reason I'm asking that kind of basically one question

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over and over and over in different ways is because

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someone emailed me and asking me a question about a

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very debated and controversial subject that directly relates to well

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the subject of soteriology or well, just to make it simple, salvation,

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How we are saved? Who is saved? Why are these

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people saved? Those people are not? Why is that individual

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saved and that individual not saved? So it's a doctrinal issue,

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It's a doctrinal dispute. It's a philological controversy. So what

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can I do to help this individual? I don't even know?

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Should my desire be to help them come to a conclusion? Now,

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my approach on this has dramatically changed over the years.

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When I was younger, then I'm like, okay, I'm on,

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here's my theological team, all right. If someone emails me,

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I'm going to answer that question. According to my theological team,

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I'm going to do everything I can to explain it,

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to defend it, and to explain why the other side

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is wrong. I really very much in a kind of

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a debate mode, a fight mode, a defend mode. But

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over the years I've kind of taken a different approach

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because a lot of theological issues. I still may believe

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this side is right and this side is wrong. But

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a lot of times I like to step back and

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going to wait, before we get into a fight, what

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exactly are we debating here? Like, when you really boil

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it down, what are we really debating? What are we

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really fighting? Because there's got to be something that you know,

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does it? How much does this dispute really matter? Now?

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Sometimes the dispute matters far more than it may appear.

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Like there are times where what may seem insignificant is

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really far more significant because it has profound impact on

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Bible hermeneutics and how you interpret the scriptures. And if

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you go with that idea here, it's going to have

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a massive impact on how you interpret the rest of

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the Bible. So sometimes what may seem insignificant is very significant.

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And sometimes what seems, oh, there's this huge divide, we're

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never going to agree, let's fight, fight, fight, Sometimes when

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you step back and go but what are you really fighting?

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What where are you going to actually end up? And

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so sometimes I like to step back and kind of

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look at it in a bigger from a kind of

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a bigger perspective. Hopefully maybe maybe I can do that.

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So here is what the email is about. I'll just

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go ahead and tell you the email is about the

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subject of Calvinism. Now, I cannot stand really the word

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Calvinism because that reduces an entire doctrinal system to John Calvin,

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one man and Calvinism. It's not about John Calvin, it's

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not about Luther, it's not about you name any of

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the reformers. It's not about Augustin so early, about the scriptures.

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It's really about what do the scriptures say in regards

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to salvation. Now, specific men have systematized or a doctrinal

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system becomes connected to them because of their teaching on it.

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But the issue isn't what that man says. The issue

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isn't what a certain individual says. It's what the Word

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of God says. And here's the frustrating part, though, here's

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the frustrating part. No matter what doctrinal system, lordship salvation,

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non lordship salvation, a millennialism, Arminianism, Lvinism, dispensationalism, you name it,

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pre trib, post trib, mid trip, it doesn't matter. I mean,

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we can just I'm just throwing out all kinds of views.

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Infant baptism, non infant baptism. You just go through all

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the philological issues. Here's what's frustrating. Even if we disregard

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all the teachings of men and all of their arguments

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and all of their systems, even if we get rid

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of all of that and we get to scripture, here's

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what happens. Every side has their scriptures. Everyone every side.

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I don't know. We can remove anyone who would reject

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the sole authority of scripture. We can reject that because

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they would be relying on something else, right, But when

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it comes to most Christians, they're going to hold up

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their Bible saying this is the final authority, this is

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the final authority for all doctrine, for all theology. We

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base our doctrine and theology on the Word of God alone,

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solo scriptorra scripture alone. It is infallible, it is in errant.

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So everyone will say that, and they'll give you and

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you can ask them their question. No, here's the scriptures

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that prove my point. And then they'll come along. No, no, no, no,

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here's the scriptures that prove my point. And then if

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you're just again the people I'm addressing, just a lay person,

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non church member, church member, church attender, whatever the case

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may be, you're like Okay, So which side do I

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go with? Do I go with this side or do

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I go with this side? They've got their scriptures, but

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they got their scriptures. Which scriptures? Which scriptures prove their point?

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Because you've got very obviously educated and godly people on

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both sides claiming the scriptures teach their perspective. Now you

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can come along and go. They got all their scriptures wrong.

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These are the right scriptures. You can do that. But again,

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sometimes it is so maddening. So here's what we're going

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to do. We're going to take a little journey through

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a lot of death. I'm gonna go a little bit

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of my past where I am, and I'm just gonna

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try to kind of challenge this, maybe in a way

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that most people would not answer it. Okay, So here's

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the email. Here is the email. I received this at

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eight twenty eight am today, eight twenty eight am today.

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It begins this way. I have listened to you for

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a while now and agree with a lot that you say. Wait,

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you don't agree with everything. What in the world. I'm sorry,

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I'm sorry. I do not answer emails to people who

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don't agree with me in everything. I only answer emails

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with people who agree with me in everything, or who

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send me one thousand dollars that I'm joking. I'm joking.

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I'm joking. I'm always shocked that people don't agree with me.

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I don't know how how can you not agree with

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me in everything? My logic is flawless, my reasoning is impeccable,

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my genius. Okay, now I'm just I'm being facetious. I'm

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just being sarcastic. Some people are gonna click that and say,

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look at the man. He's an egomaniac, He's an Okay,

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I'm just joking, all right, serious z illological issue. We

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can have a little bit of fun here, all right.

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So unfortunately this person is wrong, because anytime someone disagrees

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with me, they are wrong, all right, But they go

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on to say I too, this is the email are

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speaking now? Have struggled with lordship salvation and I've appreciated

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your podcast on those. Okay, well, good, all right, we

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are an agreement there. And just for anyone who's new listening,

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I used to be a big supporter of the lordship

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position because when I became a Christian, lordship's salvation was

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just was kind of being introduced, right, as far as

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maybe the title that idea being labeled that way. MacArthur's

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book The Gospel according to Jesus had just been released,

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and I felt I thought that was just Christianity. I

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didn't really think, oh, lordship salvation versus non. I just thought, oh,

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this is Christianity, and anything that disagrees with this isn't Christianity.

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I didn't have any fuel logical. Once again, the person

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sitting in the pew, the your perspective is always very interesting.

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Then maybe someone with a lot of the philological education,

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but for me, I just thought that it was. And

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then over time, of course we could go through my

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journey of well beginning to question lordship salvation. Right, They

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go on to say, and I also understand and also

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understanding law and gospel passages are imperative to understanding Christianity. Okay, yes,

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law and gospel. Understanding the distinction between law and gospel

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is absolutely their their keywords or their words they use,

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and perative to understanding Christianity. We are so much in

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agreement on that. The subje just the email continues the

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subject I also struggle with that I haven't really heard

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you talk much about. Is Calvinism all right, well, well Finnich,

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I want to just jump in right there, but okay,

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we'll continue unless I've missed those podcasts. I see what

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the past, I see what the passages that seem to

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support a lot of tulips say, but struggle, especially with

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God predestinating some to salvation and others to damnation. I

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don't consider myself a Calvinist, but I do question that doctrine,

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especially for that reason. If you can discuss this on

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a podcast at some point, I would greatly appreciate it

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and will be listening. Thank you. Now. The good thing

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about this email is underneath it is says sent from

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my iPhone. Well, the fact that they're using an iPhone

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and Apple device immediately says you, Well, you are one

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of the predestined. You are one of the elect because

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you're using an iPhone, which demonstrates that you are godly spiritual,

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probably completely sanctified, and probably ready for heaven because you're

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not using one of those evil Android devices. And those

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people are demonic, satanic and well actually kind of scary

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and you don't really want to have anything to do

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with Okay, I'm joking again. I'm joking again. All right,

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So they struggle with the idea, and in fact their

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words are let me see here, I struggle, especially with

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God predestinating some to salvation. All right, so let's stop,

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let's kind of go back. I'm gonna bring you through

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my journey, and then I'm gonna probably handle this in

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a way that nobody else would handle it, because typically

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if you email someone like this, if they're a Calvinist,

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they're gonna come in and you're like, I'm going to

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defend Calvinism and explain to you why it's true. And

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if they're a non Calvinist, I'm going to come to

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you and explain to you why it's why. I'm gonna

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explain why the non Calvinist view is right and Calvinism

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is wrong. The Calvinist is gonna say, I'm gonna explain

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to you why Calvinism is right and the non Calvinism

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perspective is wrong. And they have their agenda, they have

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their team, and if you've been listening to me, you

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know I hate pill Lodge teams. Right, So I'm going

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to approach this in a way that may not be helpful,

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but it's it's going to be at least unique. So,

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all right, hopefully maybe it'll be somewhat unique. All right,

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so are you ready? Let's start with my journey. I

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was saved in a Southern Baptist church here in the

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middle of nowhere, Texas, First Baptist Church of Tuscola, Texas

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Fall Revival. It was an it was October. It was

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a revival service. I don't remember anything that was preached.

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I just knew I'm a sinner, I deserve to go

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to Hell, and Jesus Christ paid for my sins. That's

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about all I understood. I believed in the Lord Jesus Christ,

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and I was saved. It was a very non Calvinistic church.

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It was an Armenian church, believed in free will. I

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wouldn't They would have probably not stated that they were

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Pelagian or semi Pallagian because they didn't really get into

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any serious theology. They didn't really mention calvin of non Calvinism.

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The only thing they really mentioned was Church of Christ

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because it's West Texas and there was a Church of

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Christ church almost in the same property of as the

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Baptist church or they were literally right next to one another.

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It was kind of funny, but right next to one another.

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So they would talk about church Christ about the idea

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of losing your salvation or baptismal regeneration. But the Southern

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Baptist Church was not a theologically minded church. It was

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more about you know, revival and evangelism and and you know,

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don't drink, don't listen to rock and roll, don't dance,

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you know, don't have you know, sex before marriage. It

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was that kind of a moralistic, revivalistic, you know, very

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much about you know, holy living kind of thing, piet Pietism,

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that type of thing. That's kind of what it was.

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And but I, after becoming safe, I had theological question

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after theological question, after theological question, after theological question, after

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theological question after theological question, and finally I'm like, I

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give up. You guys won't give me anything. So I

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did a lot of my study theological studies, was buying books,

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libraries at Christian universities, just reading, reading, reading, and the

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more questions I have, I wasn't getting anywhere because the

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Southern Baptist Church was just like, you know, their answers

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were I don't even know. There was no there was

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no depth to them. There was there was just like

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there was none there was I was going to try

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to give you a measurement for the depth of the answers,

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but there literally was no depth to be found. So

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I found myself in a Lutheran church. Now, the first

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Lutheran church I found, I was like, what in the

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world is this. It was the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America.

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It was liberal, and it was I didn't quite understand

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what was going on there. So then I found myself

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in a Missouri syned Lutheran church, philological, rooted in church history,

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doctrinal and oh. Then the next you know, I'm going

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to classes, you know, with the Catechism, classes with Luther's

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Catechism and the Augsburg Confessions, and I'm oh, I'm learning doctrine,

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I'm learning theology, and man, this is awesome and and

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everything is going great. And then this is the first

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time I was confronted with this calvinistic idea of predestination.

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I'm sitting in the driveway of my house. One of

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the he was in his twenties. I was a teenager.

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I think he was in his twenties, young adult who

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attended the Lutheran Church. We would go to movies together,

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do things together, and he was bringing me home one

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evening and we got into a theological discussion, because I

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was always having theological discussions, and he started kind of

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putting forth this calvinistic idea, and I was kind of

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looking at him like, I think you're out of your mind, right.

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It didn't make any sense to me. It didn't make

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any sense to me at all. I was somewhat perplexed

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and conf used. It didn't make a lot of sense

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to me what he was trying to say. Because he

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was trying to say I think a lot of it

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would have been the way, you know, he was a

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lay person. He wasn't, you know, in ministry or anything.

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And I think the way he was trying to articulate

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it just seemed like it seemed all confusing. But I

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do remember this as my time as a Lutheran, I

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begin to be much more understand that I'm born a sinner,

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that I am born depraved, that I'm a depraved sinner,

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that I am born dead in my trespasses and sins.

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I was really starting to understand that. So, sitting in

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the parking lot of my Lutheran church, I was having

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conversations with basically my best friend at the time, he

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still attended the Southern Baptist Church. I left the Southern

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Baptist Church. He was still there. So we were having

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a conversation and his explanation of human beings were in fact,

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do I have one here? Lean? I mean, I'm gonna

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reach down and grab this. I'm gonna grab a notebook here.

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I'm gonna go to the back of the notebook. I'm

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gonna go to the very back. I'm gonna rip out

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this paper. Right, I'm gonna rip this out if I can.

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I'm gonna rip out this paper. All right, there's a

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blank sheet of paper. It's all nice straight. Well. He

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this is my Baptist friend at the Southern Baptist Church

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I left. Right. We're sitting in the parking lot of

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Our Savior Lutheran Church, Missouri, centered on South Seventh Street

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now Bailene, Texas. You can look it up. It's a

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cool looking round building right right. And I've always said

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when when my if my church goes away, and you know,

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I probably I'm gonna go back to a Lutheran church,

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even though I may not ever become a member. There's

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no other church I think I can attend. I think

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Lutheranism at least has the law and gospel distinction. I

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can't stand their view on infant baptism, but okay, all right,

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but I digress. So my friend's sitting there and he's like, well,

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when a person is born, they're born like this piece

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of paper. He held up a piece of paper. It's nice,

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it's pure, it's innocent. And then we come along and

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we crumble it all up with our sin and our disobedience.

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And then God comes along and he straightens the paper

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back out. And I looked at my friend and I

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was like, well, that's why I'm not a part of

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that church anymore. That's the most ridiculous thing. So then

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I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, we are born.

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We're born like this. Now I didn't realize at the

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time what he just gave to me was a Pelagian view. Hey,

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we're basically we our will is free because we don't

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have a sinful nature. Right. He basically gave me a

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full blown Polyagian view. He didn't even give me a

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Semipleagian view. He basically like, we come out pure, we

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come out innocent. And I'm like, no, no, no, we're

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born like this piece of paper all crumbled up up.

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We're messed up. We have a sinful nature. We are

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corrupt from the inside. If anything from the inside is

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corrupt by us. Now, at the time, I had no

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idea that this would be setting me up for Calvinism.

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But this is really the distinction, right, because if you

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believe man has complete free will, well then you've got

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to around you. You got to somehow keep the will

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away from the depravity. If depravity is there and it

400
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impacts the will, then the will is not free because

401
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it is influenced limited by that corruption, that sinfulness inside

402
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of us. Right. That means the sinful nature is going

403
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to impact the will. If the will is completely free,

404
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it can't be impacted by anything, Right. So I was like, no,

405
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we're all we're like this, We're born like this. We're

406
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completely corrupted and there's nothing we can do. God has

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to do it because we're sinners. So that was kind

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of like and then I kind of left everything there.

409
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And then the next thing you know, I'm in the

410
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United States military. I find myself in Germany and then

411
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I meet a Southern Baptist and we have this back

412
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and forth debate over baptism and then that's when I'm like, man,

413
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I just you're right. I can't support infant baptism with

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scripture alone. I can't do it. So when I get

415
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back to the States, instead of going to a Southern

416
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Baptist church, I find myself and an independent fundamental Baptist church.

417
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Now what I am taught is I am a sinner.

418
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I'm depraved, but my will inside of me is somehow

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isolated from that depravity, so that the will remains free.

420
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You are totally depraved, but your will is isolated, separated

421
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from that depravity, so your will is completely free, all right,

422
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So that's kind of what they taught me. Well that's

423
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the first school. Well, yeah, that's the first school I think.

424
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I think I started Grace University in Omaha, Nebraska. Before

425
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I started the Bible, I was going to like three

426
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schools at the same time. I was going to Grace

427
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Universe City, I was going to Twin Cities Baptist Bible Institute,

428
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and I was a student at Harold Camping if you

429
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:10.559
know anything about Hero Camping Family Radio School, the Bible.

430
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Three schools, and I was in the military full time

431
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a right, So three schools taking full classes, full everything. Yeah,

432
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it was. It was. I don't know how I did

433
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any of this, but so what happened is at Greace University,

434
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I wasn't having any classes really about soteiology. I was

435
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taking classes on world religion, classes on uh, I think

436
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church history, on Genesis, so I really wasn't getting into

437
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a lot of soteriological issues. And then our Genesis class

438
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just fell into this never ending debate over the philosophy.

439
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:44.599
At time, it was it was, it was insane, Okay.

440
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So the Bible Institute was teaching me this kind of

441
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it's not a kind of not fully a Pelagian. If

442
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you're kind of a semi Pelagian, well you're free, but

443
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you're not free. I mean, you're will Is free, but

444
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you're a sinner. And it was really kind of idea.

445
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But they definitely told me Calvinism bad. Calvinism bad. Okay,

446
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Calvinism bad to me. If you're a Calvinist, you're basically

447
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.160
you're you're lost, Basically you're going to hell. It's a

448
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.440
false religion, okay, And I'm like, whoa, Okay, this is

449
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:17.279
pretty serious. At the same time, a family radio School

450
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of the Bible with Carold Camping. This is before he

451
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lost his mind before nineteen ninety four in the church

452
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was coming to an end and leave your church. Before

453
00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:27.160
all of that, he was just basically, you know, reformed, right.

454
00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:31.200
And so I started learning about quote unquote Calvinism. Again,

455
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:33.279
I don't like the term, but I was learning about

456
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:38.559
God's sovereign grace and salvation. And it was my daughter's

457
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.279
first birthday. I think it's her first birthday or second birthday.

458
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:45.240
There's a big party at our house. There's video of this,

459
00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:48.640
and there's video like all the women are in the

460
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:51.200
kitchen and there's a lot of the little kids and

461
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:53.279
you know, la la lah, And then the camera kind

462
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.000
of goes through and you see the living room. You

463
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:59.440
see me surrounded by stacks of books because I always

464
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:03.119
had books. And there's some men of the church and

465
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:08.160
we're discussing Calvinism and I'm approaching it like, well, hey,

466
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:12.599
what about I mean, I know, if we're sinners, don't

467
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.960
doesn't impact our nature And if our nature is not free,

468
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:18.119
then God's going to have to do it. We can't

469
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:20.400
do it our own. Are we just free to have faith?

470
00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:24.200
And does God predestinate us? Does God choose us? And

471
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:28.079
they didn't really do much arguing. They did just more listening,

472
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:31.799
and I wasn't necessarily arguing for Calvinism. It was more like, Hey,

473
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:34.039
this is what I'm studying in school, So what about this?

474
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:36.240
What about this? What about this? What about this? So

475
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:39.240
the party's over, It's all good. I get a phone

476
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:43.880
call from the pastor from the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church

477
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:47.240
where I'm a student in their Bible Institute, and I'm like,

478
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:49.359
you need to come to the church. We need to

479
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:51.599
have a meeting. And I'm like, about what he would

480
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:54.200
not tell me? So I get in the car, drive

481
00:27:54.759 --> 00:27:57.839
completely unprepared, walk through the front door of the church,

482
00:27:57.920 --> 00:27:59.960
go into the pastor's office. And when I walk into

483
00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:05.640
the office, guess who is sitting in the office. The

484
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:08.119
men who were at the birthday party. And they went

485
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:13.519
straight to the pastor and reported me as being a Calvinist.

486
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:16.319
And the next thing you know, I was kicked out

487
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:19.000
of the Bible Institute. And well then it's a long

488
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.759
story of everything that happened. But what was frustrating in

489
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.079
that meeting is every time the pastor started talking about Calvinism,

490
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.119
he demonstrated he didn't actually understand it, he was misrepresenting it.

491
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.480
I kept trying to correct his misrepresentation, which only then

492
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:35.799
made it look like I was defending Calvinism, which I

493
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:40.200
really wasn't defending Calvinism. I was defending his misrepresentation of it.

494
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:42.359
Like I, whether you believe it or don't believe it,

495
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:46.640
talk about it correctly, right. So then, so then I

496
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.319
finally could get back in the Bible Institute if I

497
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:56.160
agreed to this really ridiculous statement, God elects according to foreknowledge, Okay,

498
00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:59.880
I will agree. So I agreed, I graduated, I got ordained.

499
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.759
I ended up leaving that church and was ordained in

500
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:03.880
another church. But that's a long story how that all

501
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:07.160
went down. But which is just a ridiculous statement, because

502
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:10.599
what they really mean is God chooses according to foreseen faith.

503
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.960
In other words, God looks through time you are going

504
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:15.480
to choose him, so then he chooses you, which doesn't

505
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.720
even make any sense. If I'm choosing him, why is

506
00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:20.640
he choosing me? The whole thing is just it just

507
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:24.400
just it just becomes maddening. So all of that now,

508
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:31.000
by this point, now I'm a committed Calvinist, the whole tulip.

509
00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:34.880
I agree with all of it. Everything, I'm right there

510
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.720
with it. I'm right there with every all all the

511
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:41.519
letters of the tulip I am committed. And now I'm

512
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:45.680
like an on fire Calvinist. Calvinism is true and everything

513
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:48.200
else is wrong, and like and I'm only going to

514
00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:51.799
go to a church that's Calvinistic and man so Calvinism.

515
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.960
I was very very very very very very much committed

516
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:57.839
to it. And then I was very much evolved in

517
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:02.400
the kind of the young refine formed restless movement and

518
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:05.319
the resurgence of reform theology, and I was going to

519
00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:08.400
fight a hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith

520
00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:12.279
and their view on soutariology, obviously, which would be Calvinistic.

521
00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:17.440
And then yes, I mean my church was. I mean

522
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:19.400
I moved it from I mean the people at the

523
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:21.519
time didn't know what reform theology was, didn't know what

524
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:24.599
calvin they didn't know anything. So I just slowly led

525
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:27.799
them to the understanding of Calvinism without ever mentioning Calvinism.

526
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:29.480
We just did a verse by verse study of the

527
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:31.519
Gospel of John. We spent what four years in the

528
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:33.599
Gospel of John, and by the time it was over,

529
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:36.079
I'm like, Okay, here's this thing called Calvinism, and they're like,

530
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:38.160
well we agree with that. Well, okay, yeah, now you do,

531
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.960
because we've gone through scripture to try to demonstrate it.

532
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.440
But I never mentioned Calvinism. I just taught the idea of, well,

533
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:48.880
we're totally depraved, we cannot do anything, and God sovereignly

534
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.119
chooses us because we would never choose him, because we're

535
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:55.759
dead in our trespasses. It's I taught about Pelagianism and

536
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:59.279
semi Paalagianism and how I believe that those were erroneous,

537
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.480
heretical views of mankind and that we're totally depraved and

538
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:05.960
therefore God's gonna salvation is a work of God. Faith

539
00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:08.200
is a gift given to us, et cetera, et cetera,

540
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:12.119
which led to a Calvinistic view. So that was kind

541
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:14.920
of my where how I got there. Now what happened

542
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.440
is over the years, I just started watching all of

543
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:24.079
the never ending fights Calvinists, non Calvinists, Calvinists, nonunt fight, fight, fight, fight, fight,

544
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:28.920
are argue, church splits, church splits, fight, fight, fight, deceptive

545
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:31.440
things where a pastor comes in, doesn't tell the church

546
00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:35.640
that he's actually a Calvinist, and then manipulates move Sunday

547
00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:38.680
school teachers out of positions so that they can take

548
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:41.599
over the church and make it. Some just saw a

549
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:44.359
lot of stuff, and finally I was like, oh man,

550
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:47.920
that that's when I became more disillusioned with a team,

551
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:50.240
and a theological team. I'm a kid. A lot of

552
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:53.319
this is just drives me mad. So here's what I

553
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:58.519
want to do. Here's what I want to do. I

554
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:02.480
want to step back, and I want to approach this

555
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.759
in kind of a different light. Now to the emailer,

556
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:10.440
by all means you can go by. You can get

557
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.759
the Calvinist books, you can get the non Calvinist books.

558
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:15.160
You can look at all the scriptures that seem to

559
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:19.119
support Calvinistic understanding of soutariology, and you can find all

560
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.039
the scriptures that seem to argue against the Calvinistic understanding

561
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.000
of soteriology. I don't know if you're where you're ever

562
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.000
going to end up, but here's what I want you

563
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:28.359
to do. I want you to take a deep breath

564
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:30.359
and step back, and here's what I want you to consider.

565
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:36.680
Whether you hold to Calvinism, whether you hold to non Calvinism,

566
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:42.240
this is where you're going to end up. A person

567
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:48.160
is saved by putting faith in the finished work of

568
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:52.359
Jesus Christ. A person is not saved who does not

569
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:56.480
put their faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ. So,

570
00:32:56.839 --> 00:33:00.759
in a Calvinistic system or in a non Calvinistic system,

571
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:05.079
salvation is depend on putting faith in Jesus Christ. That's

572
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.480
what it is. That person is lost they haven't put

573
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:10.039
their faith in Jesus Christ. That person is saved, they

574
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:13.359
put their faith in Jesus Christ. You can fight Calvinism

575
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:16.160
all day, but the end result, who is saved those

576
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:19.880
who believe, who's not saved? Those who don't believe. You

577
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.759
can argue Calvinism all day, but whether you're a Calvinist

578
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:25.880
or not a Calvinist, everyone agrees. Who is saved, ladies

579
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:29.680
and gentlemen, those who believe, who's not saved? Those who

580
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:33.160
don't believe. So when it comes down to it, then

581
00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:35.920
what's the job of the Calvinist or the non Calvinists

582
00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:38.839
to take the Gospel to those who don't believe and

583
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:42.720
call them to faith in Jesus Christ. It doesn't matter

584
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.480
if you're a Calvinist or non Calvinist. Who's saved those

585
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:48.000
who believe, who's not saved those who don't believe? What

586
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.400
is the job of the Calvinist and the non Calvinists

587
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:53.039
take the Gospel to everyone and call them to believe

588
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.759
the end. Now, the rest of the debate is, wait

589
00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:01.039
a minute, then, what's the process in and how someone

590
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.000
becomes saved? Who's responsible for them becoming saved? And why

591
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:09.440
is someone not saved? Like now, you get into these questions,

592
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:12.119
but at the end, no matter how you add, no

593
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:15.280
matter how you answer these questions, you can argue all day, well,

594
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:18.000
it's God, No, it's man, it's God. God did it?

595
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:21.639
Man did it? Predestination non predestination. You can argue all day.

596
00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:23.440
Guess what when it comes down to the end, who

597
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:26.440
is saved those who believe? Who is not saved? Those

598
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:30.639
who don't believe? So what should you do? Worry about

599
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:33.920
those who don't believe. Now you can debate all the

600
00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:37.119
other things. Obviously, I love theology, so I'm all for

601
00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:39.519
having those conversations, But when it comes down to it,

602
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:43.840
when it's over, you're gonna end up in the same place.

603
00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:49.519
At the core, at the very core, Calvinist and non

604
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:53.519
Calvinists agree that salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ,

605
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:59.159
and both views those who genuinely believe in Christ are

606
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:04.159
considered save and those who reject him remain lost. The

607
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:09.519
key difference lies in how they interpret the process by

608
00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:13.280
which a person comes to believe, whether by God's sovereign

609
00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:19.519
choice and what's labeled sometimes as irresistible grace. Right, and

610
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:23.159
again that doesn't mean it's irresistible grace. Is we can

611
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:26.400
get into some people say you can resist it. You

612
00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:30.320
can resist it until the effectual calling versus the general calling.

613
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:32.079
We could get into all of the distinction, but you

614
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:34.679
get the idea. So basically, the key difference lies in

615
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:37.360
how they interpret the process by which a person comes

616
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:42.079
to believe, whether by God's sovereign choice and irresistible grace Calvinism,

617
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:46.280
or by human free will to accept or reject God's

618
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:50.360
offer of grace, which is the non Calvinistic perspective. So

619
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.519
in the Calvinistic perspective, God is the one who does

620
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:57.119
the saving and the not in the calvinistic view, God

621
00:35:57.159 --> 00:35:59.880
is the one doing the saving, and the non calvinistic

622
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:03.280
I know they would never say this, they would never

623
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:06.920
say it's me doing the saving. But in the calvinistic view,

624
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.599
God is the one who does everything he's got to,

625
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:16.719
you know, regenerate, you resurrect you, grant you faith, grant

626
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:20.280
you the change of mind. God, it's all God. In

627
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:24.159
the non Calvinistic view, the message is preached and the

628
00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:30.599
person changes their mind. The person believes. See. In the

629
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:34.639
Calvinistic view, the change of mind and the faith is

630
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.719
God giving that to them. It's God's gift. And the

631
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:40.400
non Calvinistic view you do it on your own, which

632
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:43.840
then leads you to well, then his man depraved or

633
00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:47.320
not depraved. That's why typically in the non Calvinistic view

634
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:49.880
you end up with some form of Pallagianism, which I

635
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:55.480
completely reject. See there's all these different layers to it. Now,

636
00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:00.119
despite these differences, the conclusion is the same. Faith in

637
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:03.599
christis essential for salvation and rejecting of him. Rejection of

638
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:05.880
Him results in being lost. That's what I want you

639
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:08.679
to see. You can argue about how no, it's God, No,

640
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:10.960
it's Man. He did it. God did it. You can

641
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:13.440
argue all about it, but in the end, who's saved

642
00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:17.159
those who believe? Who's lost those who don't believe? So

643
00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:19.719
you can see, sometimes you have to ask yourself all

644
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.199
the debating, where do you end up? Well, guess where

645
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:25.880
you end up? Who saved? Those who believe, who isn't

646
00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:32.320
saved those who don't believe. Now, the reason the non

647
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:37.719
Calvinist wants to kind of remove God from the equation,

648
00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:40.960
at least to some level, is because they feel like

649
00:37:41.239 --> 00:37:44.239
it turns God. It makes God look evil. It looks like, no,

650
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:48.159
God wants everyone to be saved. God desires everyone to

651
00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:50.760
be saved. Now, of course they're quoting from Peter, which

652
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.320
we could look at the verse, but okay, that their

653
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:55.760
view is. Wait, if you say that God doesn't want

654
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:59.320
everyone saved, that makes God evil, and that makes God mean,

655
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:03.119
and that makes we've got to get God off the hook. Right, So, hey, no,

656
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:06.360
the problem is you your free will. It's not God,

657
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:09.480
it's your free will. And the Calvinist says, no, no, no, no,

658
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:12.119
you want the credit for it. You're trying to take

659
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:15.239
credit for your salvation. God gets the credit for the salvation.

660
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:18.840
So in a roundabout way, both sides are in a

661
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:24.639
sense trying to protect God, right right, Hey, no, no, no,

662
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:27.599
don't blame God for people being lost. It's man's free will.

663
00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:30.440
Get God off the hook. The calvinisty is like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

664
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:34.239
how dare you steal God's glory. How dare you take credit?

665
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.480
It's God who did it. Both sides are trying to

666
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:43.800
protect God. But in the end, who saved those who

667
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:45.679
believed in those who are not saved. But let me

668
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:48.559
make it very clear. All the attempts to try to

669
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:57.679
somehow protect God, they all ultimately fall apart. Because I

670
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:02.360
want you to think about this, whether in a Calvinistic system,

671
00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:08.440
whether in a non Calvinistic system, go all the way

672
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:15.440
back to the beginning. See, my struggle is not with

673
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:21.960
Calvinism and non Calvinism. My struggle is with Genesis one.

674
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:31.480
One genus is one one which reads in the beginning God.

675
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:35.360
And that's where all of my philosophical problems begin. That's

676
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:38.559
where my mind begins to unravel in the beginning God.

677
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.400
So let's go all the way back, and I want

678
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:44.400
you to show you that non Calvinist are trying to

679
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:46.559
get God off the hook. You can't get God off

680
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:49.320
the hook, ladies and gentlemen, because in the beginning God.

681
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:52.239
So in the beginning there is God. He's already there.

682
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:54.400
What do we know about the God who's already there.

683
00:39:55.079 --> 00:40:01.920
He's omniscient, he knows everything from the beginning to the end. Oh,

684
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:05.280
now now we got a problem. Oh, and he's omnipotent.

685
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:11.280
He's all powerful, he's omniscient, he's omnipotent. But what happens.

686
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:18.079
God creates a being referenced as Lucifer or Satan. He

687
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:22.320
creates this angelic being, knowing that angelic being is going

688
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:27.280
to rebel. That angelic being rebels. God is omnipotent. He

689
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:30.000
could destroy him, kill him and just wipe him away,

690
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:32.960
get rid of any rebellious angels and just stop everything

691
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:35.320
right there, it's stop it, just stop it. He could

692
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:39.360
contain it, stop it and eliminate it. But no, no, no, no, no,

693
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:42.519
no no, he does not do that. He allows this

694
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:46.079
fallen angelic being to come to Earth to go after

695
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:49.960
Adam and Eve, whom God created, knowing that Adam and

696
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:53.000
Eve was going to rebel and going to sin. But

697
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:54.920
what does he do? Does he stop it? Does he

698
00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:57.320
prevent the very thing that's going to bring the temptation

699
00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:00.000
into the garden. No, he opens up the door and says,

700
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:02.599
come on in, Satan, And Satan comes in using the

701
00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:05.360
form of a serpent, and teep and tips Eve and

702
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:08.360
they sin. Adam and Eve both sin. Now at that

703
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:11.039
point God knew that was going to happen even before

704
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:15.880
he created them. Yet he created them. Now Satan has sinned,

705
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:19.159
Adam is sin, Eve is sin. At every point, he's omnipotent.

706
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:22.360
He's just he's holy. He could destroy it all. Stop,

707
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:27.440
he could contain the disease, he could stop it from spreading.

708
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:30.880
The end, stop it all right here, Satan, you're gone, Adam,

709
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.000
you're gone, Eve, You're gone. It's all done. And don't

710
00:41:34.039 --> 00:41:37.519
tell me he needed something, because God is perfect in himself.

711
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:40.760
He didn't need anything. There's perfect fellowship amongst the Trinity.

712
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:44.199
He's good to go. But what does he do? Oh no, no, no,

713
00:41:44.199 --> 00:41:46.679
no no. He lets them leave the garden. He's like,

714
00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:50.440
take this new contagion that you are infected with, and

715
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:52.760
just walk out of the garden. And now here the

716
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:56.639
world is impacted by the fall, everything creation, everything now

717
00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:59.840
is impacted. And they bring their contagion of sin and

718
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:02.880
to the world. They have two children, Cain and Abel.

719
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:07.519
What happens murder? Why does murder happen? Well, because they

720
00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:10.599
are sinners. Oh wait, and then Satan he just lets

721
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:14.559
him leave the garden and the serpent is punished. Satan

722
00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:17.360
can just go do wherever he wants. Satan is roaming about.

723
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:19.800
He doesn't get rid of satan. He doesn't get rid

724
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:23.280
of sin, and he lets it continue and it spreads,

725
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:25.199
and it spreads and it gets so bad, and it

726
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:28.480
gets so bad he wipes everyone off the earth except

727
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:30.639
for the people in the ark. But guess what. The

728
00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:34.639
people in the ark have the same contagion sin and

729
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:36.760
they get off the ark and boom, next thing you know,

730
00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:39.519
people are drunk, no clothes, and then boom sins and

731
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:42.159
sins and sins and sin, sins. God knew it was

732
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:45.440
going to happen. So you can say, well, man's free will,

733
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:47.559
man's free will. Well who gave free will? God? Who

734
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:49.320
knew what was going to happen to free will? God?

735
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.679
God knew how many people would reject, how many people

736
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:54.559
would die, how many people would go to hell, and

737
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:56.559
he did nothing to stop it. So even if you

738
00:42:56.599 --> 00:43:03.920
hold free will, it still goes back to God. So

739
00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:06.639
either you have a God who decrees everything to happen,

740
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:08.400
or you have a God who's just sitting back going

741
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:10.320
I didn't decree any of this that happened, but I'm

742
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:11.840
not going to do anything to stop it. I'm just

743
00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:13.920
going to let it happen. No matter what you do,

744
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:18.039
you can't get God off the hook. You can't get

745
00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:27.440
God off the hook. There is a significant theological tension

746
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:31.599
that both Calvinist and non Calvinists face. Regardless of the

747
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:35.960
view one holds, both ultimately wrestle with the fact that God,

748
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.079
who is omniscient and omnipotent, created a world where he

749
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:44.039
knew sin would enter humanity. He knew sin would enter,

750
00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:47.079
He knew humanity would fall, and that some would reject

751
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:49.559
him and be lost. He knew it from the beginning.

752
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:51.599
These people are going to be saved. These people are

753
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:53.400
going to be lost. Sin is going to enter into

754
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:55.639
the world. He knew from the beginning what was going

755
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:01.440
to happen. Non Calvinists may emphasize human responsibility and free

756
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:04.719
will and rejecting or accepting God's offer of salvation, but

757
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:08.679
this does not eliminate God's foreknowledge of every individual's ultimate

758
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:11.599
decision or his choice to create a world where these

759
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:16.400
outcomes would unfold. Calvinist, on the other hand, see God's

760
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:19.880
sovereignty in a more direct way, believing that everything, including

761
00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:22.599
who would believe or not, unfolds according to his eternal

762
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:28.559
decrees at the very core Both perspectives acknowledged that God

763
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:33.960
allowed or ordained a reality where sin, rebellion, and the

764
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:39.960
potential for eternal separation from Him would exist and does exist.

765
00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:44.559
This means that at the very least, God knowingly created

766
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:49.880
a world in which these tragic possibilities were real. Whether

767
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:54.199
God merely permitted the events to unfold are directly decreed them.

768
00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:58.920
Both views affirm that none of it occurs outside of

769
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:05.199
His knowledge or allowance, and other words, neither side Calvinist

770
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:10.440
or non Calvinists can escape the thiological implication that God

771
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:14.079
created a world with a specific outcome in mind, even

772
00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:17.840
if he provided humanity with real agency, or if he

773
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:21.719
determined every event in advance, no matter which way you go,

774
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:24.719
free will non free will, God is the one who

775
00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:27.639
allowed it, created it, knowing exactly what was going to happen.

776
00:45:27.880 --> 00:45:34.400
He knew it. This shared foundation often brings both Calvinists

777
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:38.480
and non Calvinists perspectives to a similar conclusion. God's purpose

778
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:43.480
in creation and redemption remains mysterious and complex, balancing his

779
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:50.239
sovereignty with human responsibility or accountability. The bottom line is,

780
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:54.440
if you're like I don't like predestination because you want

781
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:56.159
to get God off the hook. But you can't get

782
00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:00.519
God off the hook. God's on. There's no way to

783
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:03.719
remove God from this. He knew everything in the beginning. God,

784
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:06.559
he's there, and then the next word created. Well, the

785
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:09.360
minute he creates, he knows exactly what he's creating. He

786
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:11.880
knows exactly what's going to happen. He knows exactly how

787
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.000
many people are dying, going to go to hell. And

788
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:16.159
he does either he and if you say, well, he

789
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:18.480
gave free will, he's the one who gave free will

790
00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:20.159
knowing that this many people are gonna die and burn

791
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:27.360
in hell. And he said, well, he didn't want robots.

792
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:32.800
Why not. It's not like he needed robots or non robots.

793
00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:36.920
He didn't need anything. Well, he wanted people to love

794
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:39.559
him on their own. What does it even mean. He

795
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:46.639
doesn't need anybody's love. He's perfect in himself. So his

796
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:50.880
need for love is your explanation for why millions upon

797
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:53.400
millions of people burn in hell. I mean, like, that's

798
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:57.199
that's the most God needs my love freely. That's why

799
00:46:57.199 --> 00:46:59.159
he makes it so all these people can go to hell.

800
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:03.440
That's that's I don't think that helps their answers any problem.

801
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:11.360
See the bottom line, is when it comes to Calvinism, predestination,

802
00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:14.360
non predestination, you're gonna end up with the same thing.

803
00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:17.880
Who saved those who believed, who's not saved those who

804
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:21.199
don't believe? What of both? Whether you're a Calvinist or

805
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:23.960
a non Calvinist, What does the world need. They need

806
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.599
to hear the Gospel. They need to hear that they're

807
00:47:26.599 --> 00:47:28.880
a sinner and that their only hope is in the

808
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:31.280
finished work of Jesus Christ, and by faith alone, his

809
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:35.360
imputed righteousness is accredited to their account, and they stand

810
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:38.079
before God holy not because of what they do, but

811
00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:40.639
because of what He does. That's what we can agree on.

812
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:44.239
You can get into all these little debates no no,

813
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:46.920
no free will. No free will. Now, just remember if

814
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:50.039
you get into the free will argument, because if you

815
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:53.320
reject Calvinism, you're going to the free will argument. Just remember,

816
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:56.559
for the will to be free either, there is no

817
00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:59.440
depravity in man. So you go with full bloom Pallagianism,

818
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:02.679
go with some weird idea that the will is actually

819
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:05.199
free from the depravity. And if the will is free

820
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:09.320
from the depravity, that means people freely can choose to

821
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:13.480
be perfect. If the will is completely free. Then everyone

822
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:16.480
could freely choose to be perfect and to keep God's

823
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:19.840
law with or without God, because the will is free.

824
00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:22.840
If the will is free before salvation, then the will

825
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:25.559
is free after salvation. That means people who have a

826
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:28.880
free will can freely choose to be perfect and keep

827
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:32.880
God's law perfectly. No one's ever accomplished. That would put

828
00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:35.760
forth great argument that no one has free will, because

829
00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:37.559
if you have free will, you could freely just choose

830
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:39.840
to obey God. If you can't obey God, what's keeping

831
00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:44.440
you from doing so? Well, then you're not free. See,

832
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:47.440
the non Calvinist view requires a free will. Understanding what

833
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:50.800
the will is. I can test the will being free, okay,

834
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:52.800
just keep God's law perfectly. You can't whether then your

835
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:57.440
will is not free the end But to me, we

836
00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:00.719
can get into all of these arguments, but the end

837
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:05.639
result is Calvinist, non Calvinist. Who's saved? Those who believe?

838
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.480
Who's not saved? Those who don't believe? What do they

839
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:12.320
need the gospel? Now it'll get into like, but why

840
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:14.239
bring the gospel to the person they may not be

841
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.639
the elect? And why bring the gospel to that person

842
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:21.920
they may not believe it's just who can just bring

843
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.920
the Gospel to everyone and who believes believes? If you

844
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:27.519
want to get into these never ending disputes, you just

845
00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:37.239
get nowhere. See people worry about God's predestination and soteriology, right,

846
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:40.519
that's where everybody gets worried about. Well wait a minute,

847
00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:45.519
forget God's predestination and soteriology. God created a world knowing

848
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:48.599
all this was going to happen. So if his knowledge

849
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:52.039
proceeds it happening, isn't it then has to happen according

850
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:57.159
to his knowledge. Well that's a that's a deep question.

851
00:49:57.400 --> 00:49:58.800
But the point is he knew it was going to

852
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:01.199
happen and allows it to happen. And then you either

853
00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:03.800
God is not controlling it or God is controlling it.

854
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:07.119
And these have deeper issues than salvation. This is how

855
00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:11.559
everything else happens in the world. Now, Yeah, are there

856
00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:16.079
scriptures that mention this concept? Well, we have this. Blessed

857
00:50:16.119 --> 00:50:18.039
be the God and Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ,

858
00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:20.760
who has blessed us with spiritual blessings and heavenly places

859
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:23.840
in Christ, according as He hath chosen us in Him

860
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:27.159
before the foundation of the world, that we should be

861
00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:33.840
holy and without blame. Before him in love, having predestinated

862
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:36.679
us onto the adoption of children. But then other people

863
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.440
would say, for you know, go to other scriptures. For

864
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:41.039
God so loved the world that he gave his only

865
00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:44.840
begotten son, that whosoever believed on him should not perish

866
00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:48.480
by to have everlasting life. God desires all to repent

867
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:51.039
and believe. And of course that's ripping that versal very

868
00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:53.039
much out of context, but you get the idea. So

869
00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:55.679
everyone will go to their scriptures and they'll debate, and

870
00:50:55.679 --> 00:50:58.519
they'll debate. But guess where it ends. As I stated

871
00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:04.880
now multiple times, who saved those who believed? Who's not

872
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:07.599
saved those who don't believe? What do the people who

873
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:13.840
don't believe need the gospel? This issue of God's sovereignty

874
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.719
and his predestination and his knowledge, this goes all the

875
00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:21.320
way back to Genesis one. And listen, both sides are

876
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:24.639
trying to protect God. Right. The non Calvinists is saying, look, look,

877
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:27.599
I'm not going to blame God for one of these

878
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:29.639
people don't believe, or why some people believe in some

879
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:32.760
people don't. No, no, no, that's horrible. So I got

880
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:34.719
to get God off the hook. And then the Calvinists

881
00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:37.639
is like, how dare you steal from God's glory? God

882
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:39.719
gets the glory. You're not going to take any credit.

883
00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:43.519
Will Both sides try to protect God. I understand that desire.

884
00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:46.599
But ladies and gentlemen, you go all the way back

885
00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:49.639
to Genesis one. One. There's no getting God off the hook.

886
00:51:51.639 --> 00:52:03.760
There's nine, there's nine.

887
00:52:03.960 --> 00:52:08.239
The gospel is to be offered to everyone. It's to

888
00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:15.960
be preached everywhere to everyone. Those who believe are saved,

889
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:21.480
those who reject are not. Now we can get into

890
00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:24.760
a lengthy discussion about well, why why do they believe?

891
00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:31.920
Why did they not believe? Now? My personal belief, yeah,

892
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:34.760
I hold to a calvinistic view. I hold to a

893
00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:38.840
calvinistic view because I reject Pallagianism. I believe that the

894
00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:42.440
will is not completely free. The will is not free

895
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:44.159
because if the will was free, I could just choose

896
00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:46.280
to be holy. Even as a saved person. My will

897
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:48.280
is not free, or I could just choose to be holy.

898
00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:51.800
There's something still impacting my will. It's my sinful nature. Well,

899
00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:56.079
because my sinful nature is there, then I know I

900
00:52:56.280 --> 00:52:59.760
need God to do the saving. God has to choose me.

901
00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:03.199
God has to save me. God has to grant me faith.

902
00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:10.800
God has to grant me the change of mind. Now,

903
00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:13.199
I know that's not a perfect answer. You said, well,

904
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:14.920
which one should you believe? I'm not telling you which

905
00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:18.280
one to believe. I'm just telling you that when you

906
00:53:18.519 --> 00:53:21.039
It's like with limited atonement, people can get an argument.

907
00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:23.880
Did Christ die for everyone? Or did he only die

908
00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:26.920
for the elefe No, he died for every single person. No,

909
00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:29.960
he only died for the elect. Would everyone calm down?

910
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:36.719
Who saved those who believe? Who? Is Christ's death sufficient

911
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:40.559
for everyone who believes? Yes, for everyone believes Christ died

912
00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:43.920
paid for their sins? Okay, if Christ died for the

913
00:53:43.960 --> 00:53:46.559
sins of everyone in the world, are they all saved? Well, no,

914
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.119
only those who believe. So we can argue about did

915
00:53:49.199 --> 00:53:51.440
Christ die for everyone? Or did Christ only die for

916
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:53.559
the elect? You can have that argument all day. But

917
00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:56.679
the end result, who saved those who believe? Who's not

918
00:53:56.760 --> 00:54:00.840
saved those who don't believe? There's no sug Well that

919
00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:03.840
person believes, Well, Jesus didn't die for them. Nobody would

920
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:09.920
say that for everyone who believes he died for But no,

921
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:11.840
he died for everyone in the world. You can say

922
00:54:11.840 --> 00:54:14.960
that but he died and paid for the sins of

923
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:17.960
everyone in the world. Is everyone saved? No, okay, So

924
00:54:18.039 --> 00:54:24.400
then him dying for everyone in the world doesn't accomplish anything.

925
00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:28.360
It only makes salvation. I guess you could say possible.

926
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:31.519
But the point is is anyone who believes can be saved,

927
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:34.840
everyone believes that, Calvinist or non Calvinists. Anyone who believes

928
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:38.239
it will be saved, not can be, will be. And

929
00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:41.280
if they are saved, then obviously Christ paid for their

930
00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.440
sins and died for their sins. So you get into

931
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:46.440
these deep questions when you really boil it down, what

932
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:51.519
does it come down to that person believes, well, praise God,

933
00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:54.159
he saved. Christ died for him. His sins have been

934
00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:56.920
removed as far as the ess from the west, his

935
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.880
sins have been forgiven, has been covered in the blood

936
00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:02.000
of Jesus Christ. Righteousness has been imputed to his account.

937
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:04.559
He stands before God holy, imperfect, even though in practical,

938
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:15.079
everyday life he's still a sinner. So I think a

939
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:19.239
lot of the disputes just distract us. Now, as a

940
00:55:19.239 --> 00:55:25.639
good Bible student, whenever you're studying the Bible and you

941
00:55:25.719 --> 00:55:29.000
come across passages that seem to go one way or

942
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:33.239
the other. Yeah, then you have to deal with the issue.

943
00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:36.400
You have to deal with the issue as far as

944
00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:39.440
the text is concerned. But just note, no matter how

945
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:42.559
you can deal with the text, however you deal with it,

946
00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:44.480
there's going to be another side that's going to disagree

947
00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:52.199
with you using the exact same text, which can be maddening. Now,

948
00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:56.519
am I saying ignore all theological disputes. I'm not saying that.

949
00:55:56.960 --> 00:55:59.119
Sometimes you just got to step back and reduce it

950
00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:02.079
and go Okay, no matter which way I go on

951
00:56:02.119 --> 00:56:05.679
this debate, where do I end up? Let me repeat

952
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:09.480
it now, for like the five hundredth time, in this debate,

953
00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:14.000
where do you end up? Who's saved those who believe,

954
00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:19.000
who's not saved those who don't believe? What do those

955
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:28.199
who don't believe need the gospel? What happens if they

956
00:56:28.239 --> 00:56:34.719
believe they will be saved? Who's the elect who's the

957
00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:40.079
chosen those who believe? Who are those not chosen? Or

958
00:56:40.119 --> 00:56:46.480
elect those who don't believe? Well, that's not fair. Well,

959
00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:48.840
guess what's going to be the end result, Whether they're

960
00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:51.360
chosen not chosen, whether it's free will or not free will?

961
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:58.559
That they're going to go to the same hell. Now

962
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:00.519
you may make you feel better that God gets off

963
00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:02.119
the hook, but again, God's the one who gave the

964
00:57:02.119 --> 00:57:03.760
free will, knowing that that person was going to use

965
00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:05.400
the free will not to believe and burn in hell,

966
00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:12.960
yet allow them to be born and be created. I mean,

967
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:16.159
no matter how you look at it, God still involved

968
00:57:16.159 --> 00:57:17.880
in it. He either knew it was going to happen,

969
00:57:18.519 --> 00:57:21.719
or he decreed it to happen. Unless you go with

970
00:57:21.800 --> 00:57:23.639
open theism, and now God doesn't know, and now you

971
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:26.400
begin to systematically destroy God as being God, which you

972
00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:33.679
end up to a different problem. The email question is great,

973
00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:36.199
My answer to it is not so great because it

974
00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:38.199
kind of leaves you with, well, so what's the right

975
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:44.639
answer I think in this particular case. I mean, you know,

976
00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:48.559
I'm obviously a Calvinist. I hold that that view right,

977
00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:52.559
But it goes more to I reject Pelagianism semi plagianism

978
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:55.360
because I can I can tangibly prove that a will

979
00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:57.719
is not free. I can prove that right. If you

980
00:57:57.760 --> 00:57:59.679
tell me the will is free, then I'll just say, well,

981
00:57:59.679 --> 00:58:02.360
then be be holy as God is holy, and keep

982
00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:04.199
all of his commandments. Well I know you're not gonna

983
00:58:04.239 --> 00:58:06.199
do that. You can't do that, so you're going to fail.

984
00:58:06.320 --> 00:58:08.239
So then your will is not free the end. Okay,

985
00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:10.519
So all right, I can already disprove that. Now that

986
00:58:10.599 --> 00:58:12.840
then leads me to the idea of total depravity. And

987
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:16.119
if I'm totally depraved, then I cannot save myself. Then

988
00:58:16.159 --> 00:58:18.199
faith is and faith is a gift from God. Okay,

989
00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:20.679
then I'm gonna lead to a more calvinistic viewpoint. But

990
00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:22.760
the bottom of line is whether you're a Calvinist or

991
00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:25.159
not a Calvinist. I'm gonna say it again, where do

992
00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:31.679
we end up. Who's saved, the person who believes, who's

993
00:58:31.719 --> 00:58:35.280
not saved, the person who rejects. What does the person

994
00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:40.280
reject need the gospel? Who should the Gospel go to

995
00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:47.920
every single person? And whosoever believes shall be saved. The

996
00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:51.760
Calvinists will say that person believes because God guarranted them

997
00:58:51.800 --> 00:58:54.599
the faith. The non Calvinists will say that person believed

998
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:57.199
because they chose to believe on their own free will.

999
00:58:57.519 --> 00:59:11.400
But the bottom line is the person is saying by belief. Now,

1000
00:59:11.559 --> 00:59:13.920
there may be times when we come to a certain

1001
00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:19.039
text where I think to reject the calvinistic understanding, you know,

1002
00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:24.639
creates other problems. But there's probably times that we come

1003
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:26.599
to a certain text non Calvinists would say, well, if

1004
00:59:26.639 --> 00:59:29.280
you interpret that in a Calvinistic way, that creates other

1005
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:33.559
biblical interpretive problems. Every side's going to claim that. So

1006
00:59:38.239 --> 00:59:41.079
there you go fifty nine minutes. I don't know if

1007
00:59:41.079 --> 00:59:42.960
that was helpful. I don't know if it was beneficial.

1008
00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:45.199
I know it's probably not the answer you wanted. But

1009
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:46.840
I wasn't going to come here with a full like

1010
00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:49.559
I'm going to defend Calvinism or or I'm going to

1011
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:52.880
argue against Calvinism. I just want you to show that

1012
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.639
when you boil it down, you kind of end up

1013
00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:57.480
in the same place. And no matter how much you

1014
00:59:57.480 --> 00:59:59.440
want to get God off the hook, there's no getting

1015
00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:02.960
God off the hook none. Because he was there in

1016
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:07.519
the beginning, knowing exactly what was going to happen, and

1017
01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:12.079
having the power to stop it or allow it. That's

1018
01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:14.920
a million miles away from even getting to whether he

1019
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:18.519
decreed it and guiding it and controlling it. Just the

1020
01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:20.280
fact that he has the power to stop it and

1021
01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:22.440
knew it was going to happen and set everything in

1022
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:26.960
motion and did nothing to stop it. That's the thing

1023
01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:29.119
that should keep you up at night, because I don't

1024
01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:33.960
know that I'll never truly understand that. All right, I

1025
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.559
hope this is beneficial to some. I know the Calvinists

1026
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:38.440
are going to be mad at me, the non Calvinists

1027
01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:40.079
are going to be mad at me. Everyone's going to

1028
01:00:40.119 --> 01:00:42.719
be mad at me. That's great. But the end result,

1029
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:46.440
ladies and gentlemen, is who's saved those who believe, who's

1030
01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:50.360
not saved those who don't believe? Who did Christ die

1031
01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:54.519
for those who are saved? Okay? Because Christ's death for

1032
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:57.079
those who are not saved is of no value to

1033
01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:59.280
them because they're going to go to hell even though

1034
01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:01.079
that he died for. So whether you believe in limited

1035
01:01:01.159 --> 01:01:04.280
or unlimited atonement, you still end up with these same issues.

1036
01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:08.960
So all right, thanks for listening. Everyone, have a great night.

1037
01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:10.000
God bless