Nov. 27, 2024

Book of Mormon: Blood Atonement

Book of Mormon: Blood Atonement

We look at a claim made about the Book of Mormon and the Atonement

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We look at a claim made about the Book of Mormon and the Atonement

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Looking at our world from a theological perspective. This is

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the Theology Central podcast making Theology Central. Have you ever

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been in a situation where you have to do something

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but it's absolutely and completely irritating, Like you know you

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have to do it, but it's irritating. You don't really

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want to do it, but you feel you have to. Well,

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that is the situation for this broadcast. I don't want

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to do this. In fact, I want to just move

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on and forget everything that comes before. But I feel

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like I have no choice, and it's very irritating because

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I don't really want to be doing this right now.

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I want I could be reading, I could be listening

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to music, I could go watch a television show. I

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could just, I don't know, just walk around in circles

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for thirty minutes. I feel like it would probably be

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more beneficial than doing this, but I feel like an obligation,

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like I have to do this. So I guess we're

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going to do this. Are you ready? I hope you

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are all right, ladies and gentlemen. It is Tuesday, November

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the twenty sixth, twenty twenty four. It is currently nine

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thirty pm Central Time, and I'm coming to you live

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from the Theology Central Studio located right here in Abilene, Texas.

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Now everything started this morning, right. I was like, okay,

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sermons two point oh app sermon challenge. We've got to

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bring that to some kind of dramatic conclusion. We have

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basically about a month to pull that off. All right,

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So let me look at the sermon's two point oh app.

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Let's look at what new sermons are being added. Let's

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look around what's going on. What can I talk about?

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What sermons could I review? Let's do this right? And

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so I'm looking and I'm like, oh, look at that.

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There is a sermon entitled Internet theologian. All right, Internet theologians. Okay,

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this could be interesting, right because typically when a pastor

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or talks about Internet theologians or Internet theology or Christian

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podcasters or Christian bloggers, it's almost inevitable they are going

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they're going to say something negative Internet theologians. You've got

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these Internet theologians running around thinking that they know the

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Bible and that they can teach the Bible, and they

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don't know what they're talking about. You can't trust it. Oh,

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You've got these so called Christian podcasters and you've got

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these Christian bloggers. It's almost always negative, derogatory, almost an attack,

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almost being dismissive, as if those Internet theologians are those

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Christian podcasters, they don't really have the knowledge or the

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insight or the education to be able to speak about

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such lofty matters. What they really need to do is

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listen to the pastors and churches. Who are you know,

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the experts and all of this. That's kind of the

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way it is presented. Now, Maybe just maybe I could

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be a little bit sensitive, right, I could be a

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little defensive, because well, I'm the host of a podcast

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called Theology Central. Hmm, I'm an Internet theologian. Okay, I

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get it, I get so maybe I could just be

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a little a little bit sensitive. I'm more than aware

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of acknowledging that is true. I'm acknowledging that is true.

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But I knew this. Ooh, Internet Theologians. Okay, I'm gonna

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review this. And so I got ready to download it,

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but the audio was not available. So we moved on

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and we reviewed a different sermon. Right, I thought that

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was somewhat beneficial. And then later in the afternoon, what

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did we find? We found the audio for Internet theologians,

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and we did a review, and we did not review

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the whole thing, but we've reviewed enough to come to

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this very frustrating conclusion. In a sermon, this I don't

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I don't even have words for this. In a sermon

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criticizing Internet theologians as not being trustworthy, as you can't

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you should not trust them. A sermon criticizing Internet theologians

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is a sermon then that is filled with misinformation or

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let me just say this, there are sections of the

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sermon I won't say filed, because then I've got to

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quantify that, right, I got to try to measure it.

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In a sermon criticizing Internet theologians is misinformation, wrong information,

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things that are just absolutely fraudulent, misrepresentation, not just so

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so many issues I does. Does anyone not see how

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absurd that is? So I tried to correct some of

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the wrong information, but I told you I would, I'm back,

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and I would really, really, really really try to to

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try to dig in. And the thing that we're going

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to need to really try to clarify some of this

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is right here in my hand, the Book of Mormon.

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All right, I'm holding a physical copy of the Book

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of Mormon. I will be reading from the Book of

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Mormon so that we can verify any claims that are

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being made. Okay, so I have it right here. Okay,

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But the absurdity of this in fact, in fact, not

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only is it absurd, not only is it irritating, it's

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it's profoundly ironic. I mean, don't you think see what

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I did there? Don't? Uh? Okay, Okay, some of you

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may have got it right. It's profoundly ironic that a

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sermon criticizing Internet theologians for their lack of accountability and

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the spread of misinformation would itself require correction for significant

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factual and ideological errors. That's hilarious. Okay, that's hilarious. In fact,

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I didn't write those words. AI wrote those words because

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I took the sermon and gave it to Ai. And

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AI said, it's profoundly ironic that a sermon criticizing Internet

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theologians for their lack of accountability and the spread of

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misinformation would itself require correction for significant factual and theological errors.

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That cracked me. Even AI was like, what is this?

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This is ridiculous. It's ridiculous, ladies and gentlemen, all right,

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this situation this entire situation what I'm getting ready to

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try to do, and I'm gonna try to do it

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in a somewhat abbreviated way. I could spend hours just

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taking this sermon apart and going, well, what about that?

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But I want to try to make it somewhat When

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I say abbreviated, I know some of you are already laughing. Look,

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I understand, and I understand. I try my best, right,

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but this situation highlights the universality. I want you to

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hear this. This highlights the universality of human fallibility. This

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situation just demonstrates all human beings are fallible, whether on

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the Internet or whether standing behind a pulpit. All right,

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all of us are fallible. All of us say things

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that are not true, all of us say things that

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are incorrect. All of us are guilty of mishandling the

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scripture because we are fallible human beings. And guess what.

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This shows that there's a need for discernment, regardless of

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the platform or authority of the speaker. I don't care

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if he's standing behind a pulpit. I don't care if

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he's sitting in front of a microphone and a studio

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in West Texas. You, and this is the frustrating part. You,

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the individual, You're supposed to have the discernment to take

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your Bible and figure out is the pastor telling the truth?

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Is the non pastor telling the truth? Is it the

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church that tells the truth or is it the internet

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theologian telling the truth? And you have to figure it

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out because see we decided as non Catholics. Oh no, no, no,

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no no, the church doesn't have the authority. There is

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no magistyal authority. The authority is in the Bible. And

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now every individual has to go to the Bible figure

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it out, and then they're supposed to decide what is

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true or what is false. That sounds like a great system,

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but guess what. Nobody agrees on anything. I don't know

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what you're supposed to do sitting in the pew. I

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guess you're just basically quit your job and spend twenty

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four hours a day, seven days a week trying to

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figure out the Bible. Of course, nobody in two thousand

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years has figured it out. But I'm sure you can

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do so. This entire situation, not only is it frustrating,

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No is it irritating. Not only is it ironic. Don't

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you think our all of those things? For a number

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of reasons. The message, I'll state it this way, the

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very message that the pastor was preaching about Internet theologians,

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it undermines itself. The sermon critiques internet theologians for spreading misinformation,

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yet it includes multiple, multiple inaccurate claims, such as misrepresenting

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the Book of Mormon's teaching on the atonement. I've got

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it right here. It makes some claims about Wescott and

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hort and Bible translations that at maybe at best are unverifiable.

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I think that's I think that's okay. I think it

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clearly he oversimplifies or possibly distorts historical events like the

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origins of Islam and Satanic verses. Now we could argue

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all I'm saying is, when you get into the origins

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of it Islam, or you get into the novel Satanic Verses,

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there's a lot more there than just this oversimplification. The

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way that it was done by failing to uphold the

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standard of accuracy demanded of Internet theologians, the speaker demonstrates

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the same issues he's criticizing. Hey, you cannot trust those

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Internet theologians. They would give you false information. You don't

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know where they're getting there, could be get there, They

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could be getting their information from demons. For crying out

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loud because you know you don't know them. But of

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course if someone's speaking in a church, it's just because

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you can't make this stuff up. This whole thing is

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ironic because he talks about a lack of accountability, but

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if it applies both ways. See the pastor accuses Internet

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theologians of operating without accountability or oversight, but the same

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criticism can be applied to sir preach. Within local churches.

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Many congregants may accept a pastor's claim without question, assuming

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them to be accurate due to their position or authority.

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Many people sit in the church and we've listened to

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sermon after sermon after sermon where pastors say outrageous, ridiculous

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things and you hear the people in the congregation going Amen, Amen.

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Sometimes they even clap. You're like, that's false, that's false now,

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But hey, you can't trust Internet theologians because there's no

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one to hold them accountable. Have you seen the crazy

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things that's been done in churches and the name of Jesus, Okay,

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I mean, come on in this particular case, the errors

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in the sermon highlights the need for all leaders, whether

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online or in person, to be accountable for their statements.

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The critique of internet theologians lack of oversight is undermined

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when the speaker's own errors are not challenged or corrected

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in real time. Who's correcting him?

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They posted the sermon on the Internet, so no one's like,

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wait a minute, what you said there was not the

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platform in.

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Which it's hosted at. It's it's posted at. They're not

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going to do anything about nobody's going to do anything

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about it. This whole thing is kind of ironic, because, well,

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trust should not be blind, right. The sermon encourages listeners

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to test the claims of the Internet theologians against scripture

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and sound doctrine, a valid and necessary practice. However, the

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errors in the pastor's own message illustrates that trust in

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church leadership should not be blind. The Bible itself encourages

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believers to test all teachings. See well, the pastor is

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warning against uncritically trusting Internet theologians, but implicitly asked the

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congregation to trust their own claims even when they're demonstratably false.

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He's like, hey, don't trust them, but you can trust

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me even when the information is just completely fraudulent. Now,

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I got I got more things I could say here.

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I have like ten fifteen, I don't even know how

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many points here that I was thinking about and trying

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to figure out and articulate and write out and looking

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at and relying on AI's critique of the sermon as well.

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And but I'm not going to go through all of them,

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because again, I want this just to be somewhat abbreviated.

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But as you can tell, the whole thing is some

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is somewhat ironic. It's it's irritating, it's ironic, it's frustrating.

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And a sermon that's critiquing Internet theologians has to be

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corrected for its wrong information. Does not does anyone else

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not see the absurdity of it. So I guess we'll

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just get to the correction part, all right. I think

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I've got this cued up. I went back. Now, there's

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multiple things said in the sermon. There's a there's things

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about Mormonism, about Islam, about Westcott and Hort, and I

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think there's also something said about an individual who claimed

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to be a Satanist. I think was found out that

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he made up the story. I think he also mentions

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that person somewhere later in the sermon, if I remember correctly.

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But Wescott and Horte, we could talk. We could take

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the claims about Wescott and hort and translations. I mean,

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he also seems to imply that I get well, there's

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a lot of things that are implied. Wait, we could

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take the entire sermon apart. But I really I don't

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want to spend any more time with the sermon, to

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be honest, I don't, So I just want to go

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back because we covered this in my review. We covered

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this in my review, but I said I wanted to

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come back just to make sure that everyone knows that

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I was being accurate and that I was trying my

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best to be fair. So I went and dug through

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the closet. Found one of my copies of the Book

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of Mormon I used to have. I used to have

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a lot of these things, but here's I have this one.

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It's good to go. I don't have any markings or

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anything in this one. So this is one I don't

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think I used very much, but it's ready to go,

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and I've got all the references that I think I

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need to be able to demonstrate this, and I'm going

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to try to demonstrate at the same time some actual

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problems and Mormonism when it comes to the atonement and

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salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, because of Chryslin,

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because there are actual issues that you could mention without

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misrepresenting other things. But I digress. So are you ready

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to hear this? This is what was said in the sermon.

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This is what sparked me having to be here at

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nine forty four pm on a Tuesday evening when I

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would prefer to be doing. I don't know anything else

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right now, but here we go.

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It is where false theology comes from. In big quantities

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are small quantities. Joseph Smith in the Mormons, Joseph Smith

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has that story about he saw an angel and the

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angel Moroni, but began to tell him about these golden plays.

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Let him do these golden plates. And out of the

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golden plates come the Book of Mormon. And in the

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Book of Mormon you'll find out that while Jesus was

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a great man who became God through his good works

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the way that anybody can become God, he did not

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start out as God, and you also find out that

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Christianity is good if it's proper. But you have to

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be sure about a few things. One of them was

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which there's no blood atonement for sin?

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All right? His claim is emphatic. The Book of Mormon

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teaches that there is no blood atonement for sin. That's

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the claim. So remember I had Ai review the entire sermon.

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I had AI critique it, analyze it, summarize it. I mean,

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I had to do a number of functions on it, right,

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And so this is how AI began. It's kind of

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dealing with this section. I mean, AI's dealing with the

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sermon is I mean, there's like, I don't even know

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how many pages of notes it would be if I

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printed it out, it would be a lot because because

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as it was analyzing, I was asking questions. So it

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turned into this lengthy, lengthy, lengthy, lengthy thing. But based

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on the uploaded transcript, this is what AI said. The

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speaker makes the claim that the Book of Mormon teaches

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that there is no blood atonement for sin. This claim

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is false because the Book of Mormon explicitly titches the

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necessity of christ atoning sacrifice, including the shedding of his

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blood as central to salvation. Here is a detailed analysis. First,

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the speaker's claim. The speaker implies that the Book of

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Mormon denies the doctrine of blood atonement, aligning it with

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other religions that reject Christ's sacrificial death. Right. That's that's

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kind of the class. I don't think he implied, AI

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is being nice. You just heard it. It wasn't. It

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wasn't implied, it was. It was dogmatically asserted. Okay, that's

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what it was. But so what does the Book of

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Mormon actually teach? Well, the Book of Mormon repeatedly teaches

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that Jesus Christ atonings U teaches of Jesus christ atoning sacrifice,

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including the shedding of his blood, and that it is

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essential for the salvation of humanity. Here is some sections

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here or some passages. The first is from the Book

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of Messiah Mosiah M O. S I A H. Messiah.

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If I if I mispronounce any of the names of

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these books, please forgive me. I don't spend a lot

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of time, you know, reading the Book of Mormon or

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listening to things on it, or listening to preaching where

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there's turned to the Book of Mosiah. But I'm m

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s I Ah, I'm gonna go with Mosiah, all right,

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Messiah chapter three. I'm gonna turn here Messiah chapter three.

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And be patient. It may take me a minute to

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find some of the books. Okay, again, it's been I

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used to spend a lot more time in the Book

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of Mormon when because when I lived in Nebraska, I

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had Mormons coming to my house it felt like almost

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every other week, right, So I was always dealing with them,

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talking to them. And as I've said before, I even

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had some of the elders come to my Sunday school

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class there at my church in Bellevue, Nebraska. So I

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had to be prepared to deal with them a lot.

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So but that was what over twenty years ago, I

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mean twenty five years. I don't even how many years ago.

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It was a long time ago. So please forgive me

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if there's if there's any delay in getting to some

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of these books are not stated or pronouncing them correctly.

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But Messiah chapter three, verse seven, and I quote and Lo,

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he shall suffer temptations and pain of body, hunger, thirst,

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and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it

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be unto death. For behold blood cometh from every pore,

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So great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and

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the abomination of his people. And he shall be called

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Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Father of heaven and Earth,

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the creator of all things from the beginning, and his

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mother shall be called Mary. All right, So it talks

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about him shedding his blood. Why is he doing so

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for the wickedness and the abomination of his people. That's

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from the Book of Mormon. All right, Well, but wait,

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how about the book of Almah alma I think it's

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chapter thirty four. Almah chapter thirty four, Almah, chapter thirty four,

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and I think it's verse eight and ten. Almuch chapter

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thirty four. Start in verse eight, right, Almah, chapter thirty four,

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Verse eight. And now, behold, I will testify unto you

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of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say

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unto you that I do know that Christ shall come

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among the children of men to take upon him the

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transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for

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the sins of the world. For the Lord God hath

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spoken it. For it is expedient that an atonement should

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be made, for according to the great plan of the

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Eternal God, there must be an atonement made, or else

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all mankind must unavoidably perish. Yay, all are hardened. Yay,

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all are fallen and are lost, and must perish, except

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it be through the atonement, which is the which is expedient,

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which is expedient, should be made. So talks about sacrifice

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verse ten. Is expedient, that there should be a great

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and last sacrifice. Yeah, not a sacrifice of man, neither

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a beast, neither of any manner of foul. For it

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shall not be a human sacrifice. But it must be

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an infinite and eternal sacrifice. So it talks about a sacrifice,

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talks about an atonement, talks about him shedding his blood.

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Some would summarize Alma thirty four eight through ten this way.

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There is no other way or means whereby man can

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be saved, only in and through the atoning blood of

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Jesus Christ. Another reference is second Nephi Chapter two, verse seven,

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Second Nephi Chapter two, verse seven. Second Nephi Chapter two,

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verse seven, Second Nephi Chapter two, ver seven. Behold he

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off with himself a sacrifice for sin to answer the

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end of the law. Unto all those who have a

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broken heart and a contract spirit an onto none else

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can the can the ends of the law be answered?

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All right? So these verses demonstrate at least in part,

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that the Book of Mormon affirms the centrality of Christ's

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atoning sacrifice, including his shed blood, as a means of salvation.

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You cannot just dogmatically make this assertion and a sermon

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where you're complaining about internet theologians and then you say

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things that are just demonstratably false. That's just all that's maddening.

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The Book of Mormon teaches the traditional Christian view that

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humanity has fallen and in need of redemption, which comes

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to Christ's atonement. It emphasizes faith in Christ, repentance, and

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reliance on his atoning sacrifice. Now, now again, I'm not

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saying everything about their teaching on the atonement is right.

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People are going to get all confused because because I'm

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trying to offer the nuance here, but this part about

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it just doesn't teach blood atonement is just not accurate.

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And I think, and this is me going above and beyond,

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because I could just say this is demonstratably false and

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say the end of the broadcast. But I think that

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there's a potential reason or potential source for this misunderstanding

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because it's it's Sometimes this concept is confused with LDS doctrine.

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The speaker in that sermon may be conflating the teaching

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of the Book of Mormon with other Latter day Saint doctrines,

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such as the controversial nineteenth century teaching a blood atonement.

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This teaching is not found in the Book of Mormon.

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This teaching suggested that some sins might require the sinner's

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own blood to be shed as an atonement. Later, they

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would say, well, if you commit a really really really

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really really bad sin, you may have to shed your

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own blood. Your own blood may have to be shed

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in order for an atonement to be made. Now, I

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think that's heretical. I don't think it's accurate. But if

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you're going to speak of this subject, at least get

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something factually right here. It was a speculative idea. This

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is very important discussed by leaders like Brigham Young, but

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it is not official LDS doctrine and it is unrelated

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to the Book of Mormon. So even if you want

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to say Brigham Young said this, it's not official Mormon doctrine.

393
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It's not even official Mormon doctrine and it has nothing

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to do with the Book of Mormon. You can't just.

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I mean, look, if you're going to criticize internet theologians,

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well then you know, maybe the reason there's internet theologians

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because maybe sometimes those of us on the Internet can

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do better and do more than churches do.

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Oh wait, I'm not supposed to say that. Well, look,

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I've got to sit here now correct what was stated,

401
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and just just for the if the true irony of

402
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all of it is the message I'm correcting criticizing internet

403
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theologians has posted on the Internet, and which he brags

404
00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:15.920
in the sermon that he has a message on the

405
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Internet that has over a million downloads. Critics of Mormonism

406
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:28.160
often conflate broader LDS teachings or practices with the content

407
00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:31.200
of the Book of Mormon itself, leading to inaccurate claims

408
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:39.039
about the text. Now, what I have found dealing with

409
00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:40.920
a lot of Mormons is sometimes I think they don't

410
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:42.480
know the Book of Mormon because I think in some

411
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cases the Book of Mormon teaches some things that we

412
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believe better than our than the Bible does. Is okay,

413
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but that's a whole different subject, and we could spend

414
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hours going through different things of the Book of Mormon.

415
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So the claim made by the speaker that the Book

416
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of Mormon denies blood atonement is factually false. On the contrary,

417
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the Book of Mormons strongly affirms the necessity of Jesus

418
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Christ a tony sacrifice, including the shedding of his blood,

419
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as essential for human salvation. So then I live on

420
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the air, I asked Ai at that time, Hey, wait

421
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a minute, where is this coming from? Because immediately when

422
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he said it, I'm like, I know this is not true.

423
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So I was having a conversation with Ai during it,

424
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and Ai during the live broadcast, while the mic was

425
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muted and we were listening to the pastor preach. AI

426
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was telling me this, the Book of Mormon does not

427
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teach no blood atonement for sin, but rather emphasizes the

428
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necessity of Jesus christ atoning sacrifice, including the shedding of

429
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his blood, is essential to salvation, all right, And so

430
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at this point he gives Ai gives some explicit references

431
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to christo atonement Mosiah chapter three, verse seven, which we've

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already looked at Ether, which is, we haven't looked at

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that the book of Ether. I never can find a

434
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book of Ether. There it is chapter twelve. It's et

435
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e t h e r, so I believe it's pronounced

436
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ether e t h e r Ether Chapter twelve, verse eleven. Ether,

437
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Chapter twelve, verse eleven. Wherefore by faith was the law

438
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of Moses given, But in the gift of his son

439
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Hath God prepared a more excellent way. And it is

440
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by faith that it has been fulfilled. All right now,

441
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this is the idea of faith in the coming Christ,

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who atones for sin. And then if you continue reading

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in this section, I don't know if it's in this section,

444
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but you put much must put your faith in Christ.

445
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And of course those other passages show that Christ is

446
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coming to be a sacrifice and to atone for sin,

447
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with including the shedding of his blood. Alma chapter thirty four. Behold,

448
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I sent to speak these things unto you that you

449
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may learn wisdom, that you may learn that there is

450
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no other way or means whereby man can be saved

451
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only and through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. I

452
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think that's Alma thirty four. We looked at Alma thirty four,

453
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I think just a little earlier. Let me make sure

454
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this Alma thirty four. Yeah, it's written a little different.

455
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We read it a little while ago. I'll just back

456
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up here Alma thirty four to eight. And now behold,

457
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:34.000
I will testify to you myself that these things are true. Behold,

458
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:35.880
I say unto you that I do know that Christ

459
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:38.400
shall come among the children men to take upon him

460
00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:41.160
the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone

461
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:43.079
for the sins of the world. For the Lord has

462
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.960
spoken it. For it is expedient that an atonement should

463
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.119
be made, for according to the great plan of the

464
00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:52.200
Eternal God, that there must be an atonement made, or

465
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:57.720
else all mankind must unavoidably perish. Yay, all are hardened, Yay,

466
00:29:58.039 --> 00:30:01.599
all are fallen, and all are law ust and must perish,

467
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:04.319
except it be through the atonement, which is the expedient,

468
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:07.640
should be made for his expedient, that there should be

469
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:13.519
a great and last sacrifice. All right, others which state

470
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:16.279
it this way, I am sent to speak these things

471
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:18.279
unto you that you may learn wisdom, that you may

472
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:20.400
learn that there is no other way or means whereby

473
00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:22.720
man can be saved only and through the atoning blood

474
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.279
of Jesus Christ. Second f five, Chapter two, Verse seven

475
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:29.880
describes Christ offering himself as a sacrifice to answer the

476
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:32.759
ends of the Law, which we read a little bit earlier.

477
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:35.920
So these are the passages that will our go to

478
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:40.400
over and over and over all. Right, So the Book

479
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:45.960
of Mormon teaches of Christ being a sacrifice and providing

480
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:50.400
atonement to save us from our sins. That is just

481
00:30:50.759 --> 00:30:55.319
a fact, and anything that would say otherwise is factually

482
00:30:55.759 --> 00:31:02.279
not true. Now, let's do this quickly. All right, let's

483
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:02.920
do this.

484
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:04.519
Now.

485
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:08.960
I'm going to go through these quickly because there are

486
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:14.240
some problems with Mormon theology and when it comes to

487
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.720
the atonement and salvation by grace alone, through faith alone,

488
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:21.200
because of Christ alone, because the Church of Jesus Christ

489
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:27.920
of Latter day Saints LDS, it diverges significantly significantly from

490
00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:33.759
traditional Christian doctrines on the atonement. Right. For example, if

491
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:36.720
we talk about grace and works and salvation, the Mormon

492
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:40.599
view is that they are the LDS Church. Mormons would

493
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.119
teach that salvation comes through both grace and works, while

494
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:48.680
Christ's atonement provides resurrection for all. Universal salvation or immortality.

495
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:52.400
Eternal life living in the highest level of heaven requires

496
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:57.160
adherence to specific commands ordinances and good works see see

497
00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:01.839
Christ died, He made. Atonement may bring about a kind

498
00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:05.720
of a universal salvation or immortality. Everyone will live forever.

499
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:09.480
But if you really want to be exalted to Heaven, well,

500
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:11.759
now that's going to be based off works. It's very

501
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:15.680
nuanced and layered the way they would handle this. For example,

502
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:18.359
Second Nephi, Chapter twenty five, verse twenty three in the

503
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:20.720
Book of Mormon. For we know that it is by

504
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:24.880
grace that we are saved after all we can do.

505
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:28.279
This verse is often interpreted by Mormons to mean that

506
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:31.759
grace is applied after an individual has done their best

507
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:38.319
to obey God's laws and commands doctrines and covenants. Chapter

508
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:42.240
I think it's like one hundred and thirty twenty through

509
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:46.319
twenty one. Blessings include salvation are tied to obedience to

510
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:51.920
specific laws and ordinances. So it's very much a works

511
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:55.519
based system. It destroys salvation by grace alone, through faith alone,

512
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.160
because of chryst alone, and even what the atonement does

513
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:04.119
is very different than and how we would understand it all. Right, now,

514
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:05.880
I got a lot more here. We could go on

515
00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:09.759
the role of ordinances in the Mormon Church or the

516
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:14.400
LDS Church. It teaches that certain ordinances, baptism, confirmation, temple endowments,

517
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:19.000
and external marriage are necessary for exaltation if you really

518
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:23.240
want to get to the higher points of heaven. Baptism

519
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:26.440
for the dead is performed to allow deceased individuals to

520
00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:29.240
have the opportunity to accept the Gospel and the afterlife.

521
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:32.079
All right, So now you have the role of ordinances.

522
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:36.759
It's very works based, very works based. Now, the nature

523
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:40.319
of Christ's atonement, The LDS Church teaches that christ atonement

524
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:44.759
began the Garden of Gassinomy, where Jesus took upon himself

525
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:48.359
the sins of the world, and was completed on the cross.

526
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:51.960
The emphasis of the garden as a critical location for

527
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:56.359
the atonement is unique to Mormon theology, all right, and

528
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.559
doctrines and Covenant says Christ suffered for sins. Death said

529
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:05.039
on me where he bled from every pore. So hey,

530
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:07.759
they started in the guard where he's praying because he's bleeding,

531
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:10.159
and they're like, okay, there's the first shedding of blood.

532
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:12.679
This is where the atonement begins, and it ends on

533
00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:16.320
the cross. Now we would disagree with that, but they

534
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:19.199
are not denying blood atonement in any way. Shape or form.

535
00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:24.480
In fact, they're emphasizing it now. The LDS Church teaches

536
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:28.480
a universal resurrection. Christ Atonement ensures that all humanity will

537
00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:33.679
be resurrected, regardless of belief or action. However, eternal life

538
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:37.480
or exaltation, the ultimate goal of salvation and Mormonism is

539
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:41.519
reserved for those who meet specific conditions faith in Christ, repentance, ordinance,

540
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:45.159
and adherence to LDS teachings. Right, this obviously would go

541
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:48.880
against our understanding. Now they have the doctrine of exaltation,

542
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:52.039
which we would disagree. A lack of assurance of salvation

543
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:56.199
we could talk about. So the point, there's many things

544
00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:59.320
they diverge in that we could take a part. We

545
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:04.079
could criticize for this, for this, for this. It's not Christianity. Mormonism,

546
00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:08.559
the OLDS Church is not christian It's completely foreign to

547
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:12.800
historical biblical Christianity. It's something other than I got no

548
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:16.079
problem criticizing that. And we could take the doctrines and

549
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:18.119
take them apart, but you got to do so in

550
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:21.679
an accurate way. When it comes to the Book of Mormon,

551
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:25.280
it teaches that Christ had to be a sacrifice, He

552
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:28.159
had to atone for our sins. He had to be

553
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:32.400
that sacrifice, and we are to put our faith in him. Now,

554
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:35.239
if you just listen to that, some of that will

555
00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:37.960
sound well, that sounds very similar to Christianity. It does.

556
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:41.000
There's a lot of things that it says. It sounds similar.

557
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:42.840
The problem is when you dig in, you're like, well,

558
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.719
wait a minute, it means a little different. Here, means

559
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:46.679
a little different here, it means a little different here.

560
00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:48.920
You can't just say, well, the Book of Mormon doesn't

561
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:55.079
teach blood atonement. That's just a factually incorrect statement. It's

562
00:35:55.119 --> 00:36:03.440
an error. Now, and I told you it was going

563
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:04.840
to be abbreviated. I thought I was going to go

564
00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:08.199
through those passages. Some of those passages I referenced multiple

565
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:10.719
more than once, only just for the repetition of it,

566
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:13.840
so that you'll know that they're there. Okay. So, and

567
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:17.039
because I was relying on two different encounters with AI

568
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:20.400
about the subject, having it trying to break it down.

569
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.480
But I wanted to go get the physical copy of

570
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:26.360
the Book of Mormon and read from it directly so

571
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:29.599
that you could see, now, some people may still not

572
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:32.159
be satisfied with what the Book of Mormon is teaching.

573
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:34.159
And this is where I get This is what always

574
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.480
irritates me. Anytime a pastor says some whacked out thing

575
00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:44.079
about Satanism, Islam, Catholicism, Mormonism, anything, and I come and

576
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:46.760
correct the whacked out part and like, no, that that's

577
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:49.360
just wrong, that's just wrong. I will immediately get emails

578
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:52.159
like I can't believe you're defending Satanism. I can't believe

579
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:54.360
that you're a Catholic. I can't believe you're a Mormon.

580
00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:59.519
Can you listen to me? Correcting error does not make

581
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:02.519
me a Mormon, a Satanist, a Catholic, or anything else.

582
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:06.199
It's meaning that I believe that, as Christians are, criticism

583
00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:10.880
of something should be based on facts and not misrepresentations,

584
00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:16.159
because I will defend anyone who's being misrepresented. I don't

585
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:18.079
care if it's Islam. I don't care if it's Satanist,

586
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:20.360
I don't care if it's atheists. I don't care whom

587
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.360
they are. They should not be misrepresented because we should

588
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:25.920
treat people with dignity and respect. And I think at

589
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:29.320
the very minimum, we love our enemy enough to accurately

590
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.639
represent them when we're going to criticize them.

591
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.960
Doesn't mean that I believe how what Mormons teach about salvation.

592
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.360
I don't I reject it.

593
00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:41.000
Don't.

594
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:42.920
I'm not even saying I believe everything they say about

595
00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:45.960
atoat but it's very nuanced because at first you'll be like, whoa,

596
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:49.320
that sounds like that sounds like Christianity. But then it's like, well,

597
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:52.440
their idea is a little different than what we're saying.

598
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:56.880
They still believe in blood Atona, they still believe believe

599
00:37:57.039 --> 00:37:59.679
Jesus had to die. There's still parts of it. They

600
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:02.360
just the atoning work before the cross, all the way

601
00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:06.480
in the garden. That's where they started, okay, because that's

602
00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:09.159
where Jesus is bleeding, and that blood is That just

603
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:12.840
demonstrates why the hey, they even got that passage and

604
00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:14.440
we read it in the Book of Morning they who

605
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:20.679
was bleeding from every pore because they stress how much blood.

606
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:24.599
So don't say that there's no blood atonement in the

607
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:37.400
Book of Mormon. That's just that's just not true. So

608
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:39.440
what's the lesson in all of this.

609
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:41.159
I don't know if there's a good lesson in any

610
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:43.360
of the other than the frustration to correct it.

611
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:43.599
Right.

612
00:38:47.800 --> 00:39:01.360
I think that sometimes the pushback, sometimes the missiveness and

613
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:05.519
the attack upon so called internet theologians, Christian podcasters, and

614
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:07.440
Christian bloggers by pastors.

615
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:12.360
I don't sometimes I question the motives and their attacks.

616
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:17.599
They basically want to be in a position where nobody

617
00:39:17.679 --> 00:39:20.400
questions them, as if there's some kind of magisterial authority.

618
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:24.639
But they're not. I mean, the entire Protestant Reformation started

619
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:30.599
with one man challenging the entire church. Right, Hey, you're

620
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:34.599
all wrong, You're all wrong, You're all wrong, he said,

621
00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:36.480
while he's doing so based off the Word of God. Well,

622
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:40.000
everyone thinks that they what they say. This man said

623
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.159
things about first John chapter four in that sermon that

624
00:39:42.199 --> 00:39:44.119
I still don't know is even accurate. He would say

625
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:46.519
it comes from the Word of God. Sermon after sermon,

626
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:48.320
everyone says that they're what they're teaching is from the

627
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.159
Word of God. But the point is that pastors don't

628
00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:53.760
want to be challenged by those outside, and so they

629
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:55.760
kind of want to set themselves up in some form

630
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:59.800
of a magisterial authority. And guess what, they also realize

631
00:39:59.800 --> 00:40:02.440
that and there's all these other voices it can take

632
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:08.079
away from the church, right, people start listening to them,

633
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:10.559
and maybe they're getting more from these people than there

634
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:12.840
are from the church. So they give their money to it.

635
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:19.559
That's not good for business. I think sometimes that there's

636
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:22.599
some maybe more cynical reasons. I'm not saying that pastor

637
00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:24.760
was doing it. It was criticizing it for that reason.

638
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:27.559
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that when you hear

639
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:31.199
the criticism in general, sometimes you can kind of go, well,

640
00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:35.840
come on now, now, are there fraudulent things said on

641
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:39.320
the internet? Yes? Are there fraudulent things said in churches?

642
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:43.360
How many times do we have to demonstrate how common

643
00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:47.440
that is? If there false.

644
00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:50.440
Doctrine inside the church? Yeah, is there false doctrine outside

645
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:50.760
the church?

646
00:40:51.039 --> 00:41:10.360
Yeah? And how does it work? Especially in the Protestant

647
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:12.840
world that believes in a universal body of Christ. There's

648
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:16.239
the invisible universal body that all believers are a part of.

649
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:19.320
So when we talk about some people are the hands,

650
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:21.599
some people are the foot? Are we only referring to

651
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:25.480
that in the context of a local church? Do we

652
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:33.639
believe that in reference to the entire body of Christ?

653
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:45.559
Now we could get into a discussion about how do

654
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:48.960
we need the and well do we need ministries to

655
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:52.000
be connected to a local church? Right? Should every podcast,

656
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:55.199
should ever internet theologian be connected to a local church

657
00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:59.039
and they be ministering under the authority of a local church.

658
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:01.519
One could our you that one could make a good

659
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:04.400
argument for that. I guess you could, and I think

660
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:06.639
there's been time. There's been definitely times in my Christian

661
00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:08.679
life I would have made a good argument for that.

662
00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:12.039
But if you think about it logically, well, one Luther

663
00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:15.199
wasn't operating under the authority of a church, and we

664
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:19.480
support what he did during the Reformation, right, So okay,

665
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:21.400
so we already kind of have an issue there. But

666
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:24.559
not only that. If depending on your eschatology, if the

667
00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:26.800
church is going to get worse and worse and worse,

668
00:42:26.920 --> 00:42:29.559
and the church becomes a postate, won't there be a

669
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:32.840
time that people will be operating outside of the church.

670
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:48.239
I'm just saying, if someone has the ability with technology

671
00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:53.679
to turn on a microphone and talk about biblical philological things,

672
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:58.760
offer some form of biblical teaching, you could criticize it.

673
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:03.840
But who says, like, where can you say, well, you

674
00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:07.920
can't trust any of them? Where do you say that,

675
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:23.440
like somehow almost as if that's a bad thing to do? Why?

676
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:31.239
I mean, do churches have some corner on truth? And again,

677
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:35.400
it's funny you criticize internet theologians while being on the internet.

678
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:39.599
But they was a bit we're connected to a local church. Yeah,

679
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:40.880
I still don't know who you are. I still do't

680
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:42.840
know where your information comes from. I don't know anything

681
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:45.400
about you. You're just another sermon on a list of

682
00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:48.440
thousands upon thousands upon thousands of sermons, and someone click on.

683
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:50.880
They may like it. Then they may follow you and

684
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:52.679
then listen to you every week, and they may never

685
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:54.760
go to church. So you may become, in a sense,

686
00:43:54.880 --> 00:44:00.280
their internet church. Or is that a problem I get

687
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:03.719
I bet you you don't have a problem. In fact,

688
00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:08.960
let me look here. Let me see if I can

689
00:44:08.960 --> 00:44:12.559
find it. I could be wrong here, I bet I

690
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:14.559
could be wrong. Let me I don't want to make

691
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:16.920
a claim here. Let mean, let me let me do

692
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:21.159
something here. I could I could be wrong here, So

693
00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:22.760
just give me a second here. I don't want to

694
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:30.719
I don't want to say something that's not accurate. Hang on,

695
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:40.079
let me just look here. Let me give you a

696
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:47.840
going Okay, Well, that's good, all right, that's good. I

697
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:52.639
was checking something to see and it appears they don't

698
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:56.920
have it set up that way. All right, that's a

699
00:44:56.920 --> 00:45:08.639
good thing. I guess that's a good thing. I'm looking here.

700
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:24.519
Maybe you can't get to it on the app. Hang on,

701
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:26.320
let me let me look at something. I mean, let

702
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:32.119
me look. I'm gonna verify something. Can you get to

703
00:45:32.199 --> 00:45:36.960
it on the app? Yeah, well, you can definitely set

704
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:42.639
them as uh, you can set them as your church.

705
00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:59.440
Hang on, here's all right. Yeah, I was checking something.

706
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:01.480
It doesn't a They have it set up that way,

707
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:04.360
which is probably good. And that's a good thing, all right,

708
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:06.079
because I was about I was going to make a

709
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:08.280
claim and it looks like that claim would probably not

710
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:10.440
be accuracy. I had to check myself in real time.

711
00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:12.320
Sometimes you got to do that, right, So I was

712
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:14.840
gonna I was gonna say, well, one, you can set

713
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:17.679
them as your church. So I mean, they're on the internet, people,

714
00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:21.480
they can become their de facto, de fact or default church.

715
00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:24.079
That's just the case. Because you're on the internet. It

716
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:26.679
doesn't appear they have a giving tab. So that's good.

717
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:29.320
That's good because then they not only would they be

718
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:32.760
someone would be on the internet could be a default church.

719
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:35.440
People are gonna listen to you. But then also it's

720
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:37.239
set up for people to give money, so it doesn't

721
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:39.079
appear they have that set up, which is a good thing.

722
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:42.320
Then I mean, if you're gonna criticize this world, then

723
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:44.559
the less that they are not a part of that

724
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:48.360
world the best, But to be in it while criticizing it,

725
00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:53.599
and yet it the irony is so great in it,

726
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:58.360
it's not even funny. So there you go. I don't

727
00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:00.800
know what to do with it. It's exhausting, is what

728
00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:04.079
it is. It really is. It's just exhausting. And there again,

729
00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:05.960
there was other claims made in it that we could

730
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:09.119
go through and take apart, but that the blood atonement thing.

731
00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:16.239
Just come on, now, come on, now, now, where did

732
00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:17.800
you get that from? And remember he kept saying, you

733
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:19.760
don't know where these people get their information from. He

734
00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:24.440
never told us where he got his information from. He

735
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:36.639
didn't quote from the Book of Mormon. And again, let

736
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:38.480
me make it very clear, I'm not saying that the

737
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:41.559
LDS is Church, the LDS Church is teaching on the

738
00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:44.840
Atonement is accurate or right. I'm not saying that, just

739
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:47.679
saying it's not fair to make the claim that was made.

740
00:47:47.719 --> 00:47:53.519
It's inaccurate, it's false, it's demonstratably false. Now you can

741
00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:56.400
try to move the gold posts but they said this

742
00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:58.480
about the atomement. They probably said a lot of things

743
00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:01.400
about the Atonement, but at least the basic claim is

744
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:03.760
not true. And again some of the claims were made

745
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:06.000
in a speculative way by other people, and it's not

746
00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:09.920
official church doctrine. You do have to draw the distinction

747
00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:14.800
between that. Right, anybody can come along and make any claim.

748
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:18.480
It doesn't make it the official teaching of a particular group. Right,

749
00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:24.719
we do have to draw that distinction. All right. I

750
00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:26.440
went longer than I wanted to. I wanted to be

751
00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:30.199
done seventeen minutes ago. So I think that's I hope

752
00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:35.239
that resolves the issue. I hope, I hope. Man.

753
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:40.880
It started out fun, ooh oh Internet theologians, This will

754
00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:43.760
be interesting, right, Okay, what criticism is.

755
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:45.519
Going to be off? Because I pretty much had a

756
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:48.199
presupposition that was going to be offered. Okay, ready to go, right,

757
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:51.920
I had no idea that the irony would be. While

758
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:55.519
saying that you can't trust Internet theologians because you don't

759
00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:57.840
know where they get their information, misinformation, all this type

760
00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:01.159
of thing, then in that very sermon, he would make

761
00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:03.639
claims without giving us where the information is coming from,

762
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:06.280
and those claims at least the one that we have

763
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.719
looked at. I'll be more dogmatic in that one was

764
00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:13.719
demonstratably false. I mean, the irony there, the ridiculousness of it.

765
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:19.360
It's just absurd. But there we go. Now, I do

766
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:23.719
understand that someone can think something and have wrong information.

767
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:27.079
He could just be mistaken. Okay, So hopefully I've not

768
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:31.159
insinuated that this was done on purpose. It was done

769
00:49:31.159 --> 00:49:35.360
to purposely deceive. I think someone either heard something, read something,

770
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:40.199
saw something, did not do due diligence, stood behind the pulpit,

771
00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:44.639
repeated what they assumed or heard was supposedly true, without

772
00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:48.000
ever really reading the Book of Mormon or digging into

773
00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:51.280
the claims or Brigham Young or when this was said,

774
00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:54.519
or doctrines and Covenants or any of the other works

775
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:59.519
within Mormonism that are authoritative. And I understand anybody in

776
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:01.519
the midst of preaching you can do that. I do.

777
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:05.119
I Look, I almost did it myself and this message, right,

778
00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:07.559
I was gonna say, I was getting ready to say, well,

779
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:10.599
they're on the internet, they could be people's default church,

780
00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:12.679
and they're not going to stop people from doing that.

781
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:14.199
And I bet you they're not going to stop people

782
00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:16.039
from giving So I was going to say that. So

783
00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:17.360
then I'm like, well, wait a minute, they may not

784
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:19.519
even have it set up. And well they didn't have

785
00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:21.440
it set up, so see, so that would have been

786
00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:24.199
an inaccurate statement. See I almost did the same thing.

787
00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:28.000
I almost, So then the irony would be me correcting them.

788
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:32.360
I would have to be corrected. See. That's the thing is,

789
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:35.119
whether you're in a church not in a church. Men

790
00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:47.000
are fallible. So obviously you could say there was there

791
00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:53.199
was misunderstanding, miscommunication. You can make all the reasons for it.

792
00:50:53.599 --> 00:50:57.519
That what makes it stand out is his blanket statement,

793
00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:01.840
don't trust these internet theologia who don't minister in a church.

794
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:06.239
Don't trust him. But the implication is I can trust

795
00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:12.000
him while giving me misinformation. I mean, the irony there

796
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:14.639
is so great. And let me make it very clear.

797
00:51:14.679 --> 00:51:19.719
I'll end with this, don't trust me, right, don't trust me,

798
00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:27.480
don't trust anyone. Question everything, Verify, Verify, Verify, verify, check

799
00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:31.559
check check check. The whole reason I came back tonight

800
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:34.360
is because when I made those references to the Book

801
00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:37.880
of Mormon during the review, I didn't have the Book

802
00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:42.800
of Mormon in front of me, so I wanted to

803
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:45.239
come back and open up the Book of Mormon so

804
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:52.480
then I could try to provide verification. So I'm not,

805
00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:56.320
by no means I don't I'm not the magisterial authority.

806
00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:58.920
I'm not the pope. I'm no authority. I'm just a

807
00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:04.039
sinner with mycrophone trying to figure it out. Right, I

808
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:06.840
make it very clear, that's all this this podcast is about.

809
00:52:07.119 --> 00:52:09.719
Is about someone who's a sinner who has a microphone

810
00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:12.360
trying to figure out Christianity. That's what this is. I

811
00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:14.639
don't make it to make it out to be anything else,

812
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:22.079
but it is about theology. But I'm not saying that

813
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:25.360
you should agree with anything that I say. I will

814
00:52:25.400 --> 00:52:36.800
make forceful arguments for my position. But if you're not

815
00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:40.559
careful that this ideology that was kind of put forth

816
00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:43.760
in the message basically would lead you to just listen

817
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:46.440
to people in your church and that's it, and only

818
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:50.760
the people they approve of they're the authority. Sounds very

819
00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:58.440
Roman Catholic, but because then the assumption would be that

820
00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:00.880
what your church says is right and who they approve

821
00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:01.519
of is right.

822
00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:06.079
So then you have to start with the presupposition that

823
00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:07.880
the church then has the authority, and it's right.

824
00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:10.880
You see where the problem is. The entire Protestant reforation

825
00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:14.039
was about saying the church is wrong, like, oh, it's

826
00:53:14.199 --> 00:53:20.559
just it's just such circular reasoning and maddening. But okay,

827
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:24.719
all right, there we have it. Say. That's what happens

828
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:27.760
when you open up the sermons two point zero app

829
00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:30.440
and you're like, hey, let's review a message. This will

830
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:33.239
be fun, and then you find out eight hours later

831
00:53:33.679 --> 00:53:36.760
it's not fun anymore. I just want to go home.

832
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.199
I quit. Who came up with this stupid idea review sermons?

833
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:44.880
Oh that'll be great? Yeah, who's the idiot that came

834
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:47.119
up with that idea? I'm going to find them and

835
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:56.559
tell them what I fail? Oh that was me? All right.

836
00:53:56.639 --> 00:53:58.599
I'm going to set aside my Book of Mormon. Hopefully

837
00:53:58.599 --> 00:54:01.880
we won't have to reference it any more. I'll put

838
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:07.880
it over here with my Satanic Bible, okay, right, and

839
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:09.960
it messed up. Sometimes you got to keep these things

840
00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:12.920
because you know some pastor is going to say things

841
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:15.199
about them that are not accurate. Yeah that's and that

842
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:18.800
kind of Yeah. What all right, thanks for listening, everyone,

843
00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:23.320
have a great night. I give up